Wing Chun is not a Defensive Art

[Yoshiyahu]

Look at this clip...We see the guy doing WC defensively trying to counter the kickboxer power kicks. Now not taking anything away from WC he has some good use of guards and good defenses against the kick boxer. In my opinion he lacks one fatal flaw...

The Push(aggression)...

the WC priniple is to attack first to gain control and continously and persistently attack your opponent to gain entry so he cant withstand you.

The WC guy just waits for his opponent to join with him so he can attack. He blocks then attack. Instead of attacking and defending simultaneously.


Wing Chun guy gets owned video

what do you think

[Robinhood]

Look at this clip...We see the guy doing WC defensively trying to counter the kickboxer power kicks. Now not taking anything away from WC he has some good use of guards and good defenses against the kick boxer. In my opinion he lacks one fatal flaw...

The Push(aggression)...

the WC priniple is to attack first to gain control and continously and persistently attack your opponent to gain entry so he cant withstand you.

The WC guy just waits for his opponent to join with him so he can attack. He blocks then attack. Instead of attacking and defending simultaneously.


Wing Chun guy gets owned video

what do you think

All complete ARTS use defense and offense at close to same time, it just depends on the level of the practitioner whether they can apply it.

Most people only do half the arts because that is there level, it takes at lot more skill to add defense to your offense, so people usually end up only doing offense vs offense, like yang meets yang and the stronger faster will have an advantage and that is not a real MA.

Plus putting gloves on a WC guy will not enhance his art, only turn him into a boxer.

[wingchunIan]

don't think you can blame the gloves. Anyone who adopts a pose like that shows me that he's got no real fight experience. He lost the fight at the floor. He was too stiff, too rigid and had no footwork so was a sitting duck. Can't say the rules helped though with only light contact to the head. Still all that said fair play to him for being prepared to get on the mat and fight.

[anerlich]

WC can be adapted to work with gloves. Some WC training buds of mine get on just fine with them in competitions, and my instructor had 37 successful pro kickboxing matches and many more amateur matches with them. Alan Orr's guys don't seem to have a problem either.

To be fair to the WC guy in the clip, his opponent went on to become one of the better local kickboxers of his time (Dominic Deligny). He also has a considerable reach advantage.

He was basically an amateur practising a non-tournament style going up against a budding champion who trained for the competition arena. No disgrace IMO.

<insert well-worn Teddy Roosevelt quote here>

[Ozzy Dave]

putting gloves on a WC guy will not enhance his art, only turn him into a boxer.

Have to totally disagree with this statement, using gear its the only way to practice without getting injured but still using contact.

The guys I train with use mma gloves and head gear, you can't go all out but the distance is at least correct, and you can still articulate the wrist to some degree.

Dave

[Graham H]

WC can be adapted to work with gloves.

Kick boxing in other words. Put some shin guards, some kick boots and a black belt around your waist and your kickwingchunboxing will be good to go!


oooosh!

GH

[Wayfaring]

Kick boxing in other words. Put some shin guards, some kick boots and a black belt around your waist and your kickwingchunboxing will be good to go!


oooosh!

GH

Or, alternatively, you could leave off the shin guards, "kick boots"[sic], and black belt around your waist and continue to post up glorified slap boxing contests on YouTube while continuing to profess how skilled and untouchable you, your sifu, and your little friends are.

The WC guy in the video looked a little stiff. Usually people I see like that are newer to full contact sparring, as the natural human reaction when getting hit is to tense up, and only experience cures that.

I seriously doubt that 99% of the mouthboxers around here would do better.

[Yoshiyahu]

don't think you can blame the gloves. Anyone who adopts a pose like that shows me that he's got no real fight experience. He lost the fight at the floor. He was too stiff, too rigid and had no footwork so was a sitting duck. Can't say the rules helped though with only light contact to the head. Still all that said fair play to him for being prepared to get on the mat and fight.

So do you think he should moved around more..if so how..."stick and move" or should he went more on the offensive?

WC can be adapted to work with gloves. Some WC training buds of mine get on just fine with them in competitions, and my instructor had 37 successful pro kickboxing matches and many more amateur matches with them. Alan Orr's guys don't seem to have a problem either.

To be fair to the WC guy in the clip, his opponent went on to become one of the better local kickboxers of his time (Dominic Deligny). He also has a considerable reach advantage.

He was basically an amateur practising a non-tournament style going up against a budding champion who trained for the competition arena. No disgrace IMO.

<insert well-worn Teddy Roosevelt quote here>

I agree the only way to get used to doing WC with gloves is to use the gloves...If someone is afraid of sparring or doesn't want contact then of course they can do the blasted drills and chi sau with the gloves on...lol!

Have to totally disagree with this statement, using gear its the only way to practice without getting injured but still using contact.

The guys I train with use mma gloves and head gear, you can't go all out but the distance is at least correct, and you can still articulate the wrist to some degree.

Dave

I totally agree. I also like to use gloves and headgear as well!

[GlennR]

Or, alternatively, you could leave off the shin guards, "kick boots"[sic], and black belt around your waist and continue to post up glorified slap boxing contests on YouTube while continuing to profess how skilled and untouchable you, your sifu, and your little friends are.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

The WC guy in the video looked a little stiff. Usually people I see like that are newer to full contact sparring, as the natural human reaction when getting hit is to tense up, and only experience cures that.

Look, he does ok for the 1st 40 seconds or so, but the KB guy quickly learns that the WC guy has a limited array of weapons (straight punch and front kick) and on top of that he has no power at medium-long range. The KB guy just stands there and kicks/punches away unworried about what the WC guy has to offer.

The KB guy has a bigger array of weapons at his disposal, high-low kicks (both straight and round), a boxers punches, all combined with tried and tested stance/footwork and structure to back it up.

Thats why WC doesnt work in this scenario, limited weapons and (in comparison to MT) limited power.

Its a self defense system, not a sport/combat art

I seriously doubt that 99% of the mouthboxers around here would do better.

Of course they would, they'd "close the gap" and render him helpless

[anerlich]

Kick boxing in other words.

Yeah. Maybe you'll try it sometime, if you don't get incapacitated first in those deadly chi sao skirmishes.

[Robinhood]

I would say putting gloves would be good if you depend on visuals and planning as your que for execution of movements.

[Yoshiyahu]

I would say putting gloves would be good if you depend on visuals and planning as your que for execution of movements.

Why would gloves be used for visuals and planning please explain?


Do you think its inconceiviable to utilize the techniques and principles of wing chun with gloves?

[wingchunIan]

So do you think he should moved around more..if so how..."stick and move" or should he went more on the offensive?

I'd personally advocate closing the distance. Proactively going forward all the time keeping the attacks going. Difficult to relax when the adrenalin is flowing so it becomes very sapping. As i said, I don't think the rules helped because on the few occassions he managed to close the gap, he wasn't allowed to hit full power so his opponent just shrugged off the shots and moved back or turned his back causing the ref to restart the fight - at the ideal range for the kick boxer.

[Graham H]

Yeah. Maybe you'll try it sometime, if you don't get incapacitated first in those deadly chi sao skirmishes.

I competed in full and semi contact kick boxing for 8 years mate in the World Allstyles Kickboxing Organization! If I thought VT was kick-boxing I may as well have stayed.

My chi sau skirmishes are a means to an end for developing not fighting.

You already knew that though didn't you chump?

You have nor surpassed everybody as being the biggest nob_cheese on this forum.


GH

[Wayfaring]

I competed in full and semi contact kick boxing for 8 years mate in the World Allstyles Kickboxing Organization! If I thought VT was kick-boxing I may as well have stayed.

My chi sau skirmishes are a means to an end for developing not fighting.

A means to an end. Hmmm. Does the end ever develop in practice too?

I mean a lot of the "chi sau skirmish" skill I see out there reminds me of a religious joke. "Why don't Baptists have sex standing up? Because it might lead to dancing".