Benefits of Horse Stance Training

[sanjuro_ronin]

Stance training has benefits. People who have held stances for time and made increases over several months usually realize how weak their legs were before they started training.

Besides...it helped my skiing.

Typically yes, but there is a disclaimer for this and that is, again, specificity.
Unless one has been training something like a horse stance, he/she will ALWAYS be weaker doing it than someone that has.
Weak legs in hose stance compared to someone that does hose stance all the time, is, well, irrelevant other than for doing a horse stance.
I don't do much horse stance training anymore, but when I do it I hold if for 10 min and I am sure there are guys that can hold it for far more.
But we do need to compare apples with apples and here is an example:
A guy that can squat 400lbs will probably not be able to hold a horse stance very long if he has never trained to do it compared to a guy that doe sit all that time, BUT does that mean his legs are weak?
A 400lbs squat means NO, his legs are most certainly NOT weak.
I ask you this, how many guys do you know that can hold a 20 min HS? and how much can they squat?

It is not a case of one being better than the other, just that training a specific posture and being able to hold it, doesn't mean much OUTSIDE doing just that.

[IronWeasel]

Typically yes, but there is a disclaimer for this and that is, again, specificity.
Unless one has been training something like a horse stance, he/she will ALWAYS be weaker doing it than someone that has.
Weak legs in hose stance compared to someone that does hose stance all the time, is, well, irrelevant other than for doing a horse stance.
I don't do much horse stance training anymore, but when I do it I hold if for 10 min and I am sure there are guys that can hold it for far more.
But we do need to compare apples with apples and here is an example:
A guy that can squat 400lbs will probably not be able to hold a horse stance very long if he has never trained to do it compared to a guy that doe sit all that time, BUT does that mean his legs are weak?
A 400lbs squat means NO, his legs are most certainly NOT weak.
I ask you this, how many guys do you know that can hold a 20 min HS? and how much can they squat?

It is not a case of one being better than the other, just that training a specific posture and being able to hold it, doesn't mean much OUTSIDE doing just that.

Agreed.

I think that you are correct regarding the specificity, however I think horse stance training carries over to OTHER stance training more that you implied with your previous post, since they are very similar.

I was wrestling during my beginning stance training years and noticed an improvement in my leg strength/endurance, so i found it helpful for 'fighting' or, rather, competing in my case.

[IronWeasel]

Stance training isn't that bad, especially in the beginning. The key is to be consistency and perseverence.

We did 16 stances (some repeating) consecutively. every day, or every other day.



at first 15 seconds each = 4 minutes total

add a few seconds every week or so for a month.

15 stances ay 30 sec = 8 mins.

Eventually 1 minute each = 16 minutes .


We were also encouraged to jyst stand in a horse stance if you're at home, working on homework, at the dinner table, or some activity where you are static for 20-30 minutes.

The longest that I have ever held one was 45 minutes during a lecture in class. But by that point in my training, I could have held it much longer....but that's about the maximum benefit that you should expect from stance training.

Strong, stable legs for as long as I need them. Sort of the end point for stance training.

[IronFist]

Stance training has benefits. People who have held stances for time and made increases over several months usually realize how weak their legs were before they started training.

If "weak" is defined as "the inability to hold a horse stance for a long period of time," then sure.

But past the first minute or two they didn't get stronger, all they got was more endurance when it comes to holding horse stance.

Not cardiovascular endurance, just muscular endurance at that particular angle.

[IronWeasel]

If "weak" is defined as "the inability to hold a horse stance for a long period of time," then sure.

But past the first minute or two they didn't get stronger, all they got was more endurance when it comes to holding horse stance.

Not cardiovascular endurance, just muscular endurance at that particular angle.

Yep, but that kind of endurance is valuable in a fight/competition.

[Frost]

Yep, but that kind of endurance is valuable in a fight/competition.

only if you are holding that angle for a period of time, and unless you fight out of a horse stance you wont be so why bother?
as a strength building exercise its next to worthless unless you are weak as a kitten to begin with
as an endurance exercise again its next to worthless,
as a flexibility exercise its next to..well you get it
Now as a way to fill the time in a class and weed out people it has merit

[IronWeasel]

only if you are holding that angle for a period of time, and unless you fight out of a horse stance you wont be so why bother?

Fighting, wrestling etc...is conducted from a bent legged posture. So while you are fighting, you are 'holding that angle for a period of time'.

[ginosifu]

IronFist and all whom do not believe that Horse (or any static stance training) stance has value in MA:

You guys are only thinking with horse blinders on. You can only see straight ahead and what your modern science can prove. You need to step back and take your blinders off.

Horse stance gives basic leg strength. For you modern guys, if you want more.... do squats, sit on a leg press / bench etc etc.

Horse stance provides some flexibilty. Again if you want more.... do other stretches.

Horse stance does provide some balance and more important ROOTING. Rooting is the ability to sink and lower your weight mass. Horse stance practice allows you to learn how to relax while stress in on your legs, thus allowing blood and body fluids to sink.

Horse stance builds good mental focus... However it was used to weed out people with bad character. Only those individuals who persisted with Horse stance were taken in as Todai or students. Those who had the guts, stubborness, and mental fortitude would go on to learn.

Hundreds of years ago while practicing.... there some people who did not have weights (other than some rocks or stone locks) to use, so kung fu teachers used static stances and Dynamic or isometric tensions to help build strength.

Horse stance also teaches a type of structural postioning for certain techniques.

This is not to say that we as a modern society do not have other methods to build strength, however too many of you meatheads replace important kung fu drills with weight lifting. Getting stronger is good but not at the expense of skill and technique.

Remember that Horse stance training is just like running or push ups or hitting the heavy bags. They are all supplimental training and are second to solo and 2 person drills and sparring.

ginosifu

[Lucas]

It is also important to note that horse stance training is not limited to only static stance holding. This is a misconception by many people, perpetuated by those same people who do not know there are many variations of stance training.

Do people actually believe that the squat is a new invention, and that it is not a part of horse stance training and stance training in general??

[IronFist]

IronFist and all whom do not believe that Horse (or any static stance training) stance has value in MA:

You guys are only thinking with horse blinders on. You can only see straight ahead and what your modern science can prove. You need to step back and take your blinders off.

Horse stance gives basic leg strength. For you modern guys, if you want more.... do squats, sit on a leg press / bench etc etc.

Quantify "basic leg strength." What is it?

I already explained the "strength" you get from it in post 4.

Horse stance provides some flexibilty. Again if you want more.... do other stretches.

What? No it doesn't.

Horse stance does provide some balance and more important ROOTING. Rooting is the ability to sink and lower your weight mass. Horse stance practice allows you to learn how to relax while stress in on your legs, thus allowing blood and body fluids to sink.

Rooting is nonsense. "Allowing blood and body fluids to sink?" They're only sinking because you're lowering yourself and they're physically getting lower as a result. In real life, when your blood and body fluids sink, it's a medical emergency and you have to go to the hospital.

Horse stance builds good mental focus... However it was used to weed out people with bad character. Only those individuals who persisted with Horse stance were taken in as Todai or students. Those who had the guts, stubborness, and mental fortitude would go on to learn.

Sure, I'll agree it builds mental focus.

Hundreds of years ago while practicing.... there some people who did not have weights (other than some rocks or stone locks) to use, so kung fu teachers used static stances and Dynamic or isometric tensions to help build strength.

Absolutely. Something is better than nothing. Doing horse stance is better leg training than doing nothing.

I suspect hundreds of years ago they also did weightless body squats (sometimes called "Hindu squats"), but for some reason those got dropped out of popular kung fu training.

btw, Hindu squats are much more applicable to fighting than horse stance.

Horse stance also teaches a type of structural postioning for certain techniques.

I suppose, but you never use those techniques in an actual fight so it really doesn't matter.

This is not to say that we as a modern society do not have other methods to build strength, however too many of you meatheads replace important kung fu drills with weight lifting. Getting stronger is good but not at the expense of skill and technique.

Nonense. The only way you get stronger "at the expense of skill and technique" is if you stop practicing skill and technique.

Remember that Horse stance training is just like running or push ups or hitting the heavy bags. They are all supplimental training and are second to solo and 2 person drills and sparring.

Right. It's just that horse stance isn't really a very good supplemental training method because, as stated in post 4, its only real benefit (past the first minute or two) is being able to hold a horse stance for longer.

[Frost]

IronFist and all whom do not believe that Horse (or any static stance training) stance has value in MA:

You guys are only thinking with horse blinders on. You can only see straight ahead and what your modern science can prove. You need to step back and take your blinders off.

Horse stance gives basic leg strength. For you modern guys, if you want more.... do squats, sit on a leg press / bench etc etc.

Horse stance provides some flexibilty. Again if you want more.... do other stretches.

Horse stance does provide some balance and more important ROOTING. Rooting is the ability to sink and lower your weight mass. Horse stance practice allows you to learn how to relax while stress in on your legs, thus allowing blood and body fluids to sink.

Horse stance builds good mental focus... However it was used to weed out people with bad character. Only those individuals who persisted with Horse stance were taken in as Todai or students. Those who had the guts, stubborness, and mental fortitude would go on to learn.

Hundreds of years ago while practicing.... there some people who did not have weights (other than some rocks or stone locks) to use, so kung fu teachers used static stances and Dynamic or isometric tensions to help build strength.

Horse stance also teaches a type of structural postioning for certain techniques.

This is not to say that we as a modern society do not have other methods to build strength, however too many of you meatheads replace important kung fu drills with weight lifting. Getting stronger is good but not at the expense of skill and technique.

Remember that Horse stance training is just like running or push ups or hitting the heavy bags. They are all supplimental training and are second to solo and 2 person drills and sparring.

ginosifu

so at one point in your post you acknowledge weights are useful and ancient teachers didnt have access to them so had to use stances (the implication being if they did have weights they would have used them) then call those of us who are simply saying the above implicitly and not just hinting at it, that we are stupid meatheads (oh and thanks for that nice way of lumping those of us who have done both TCMA and modern weight training and studied both seriously in such a stupid group)
And you are right they are supplemental exercises which should not take time away your main training: so if one method is superior, quicker and better at producing your desired end goal (getting stronger) why not switch to it?

[IronFist]

Yep, but that kind of endurance is valuable in a fight/competition.

Disagree. No one uses a horse stance in fighting for more than a brief moment maybe ducking under a punch or rising from the ground, etc.