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Thread: The Kwan Dao weighing 100lbs? That is ridiculous!

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Cup View Post
    I agree with this. More than likely he was stronger, bigger, and had a heavier guan dao than people were used to. Over time as people told stories this got exaggerated.
    guan yu used a lance like everybody else

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  2. #107
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    Uber heavy weapons are great training however

    And traditionally, the Kwan Dao is exaggeratedly heavy, so it's great for conditioning. We ran an article titled Only the Strong By Chris Friedman in our 2009 September/October issue which discussed traditional shuai jiao training using a 70 lb kwan dao. The master showcased was Zhuo Quan Sheng, a 3X nations shuai jiao champ.
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  3. #108
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    Using a heavy is actually highly informative to the body.

    when you start moving that kind of weight, all sorts of interesting things happen to your balance, your strength, your core, your endurance etc etc.

    Even a 25 lb Kwan Do is difficult to wield with any efficacy. I practice this weapon and have been doing so since about 1995 or so. It's big, it's heavy, it's difficult and it's anachronistic as weapons go. But it is a great workout to do even a 50 move set with the right spirit with one of these. And when you do it correctly, it feels great!

    Source: I have one, I train with it.
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  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    ...................Source: I have one, I train with it.
    it's the 2012's dude, source is either a utube vid or twitter posting. shame on you.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brule View Post
    it's the 2012's dude, source is either a utube vid or twitter posting. shame on you.
    Youtube is not a place I share stuff. Mainly because it's a toilet.
    Secondly, I do share. With people I've come to know. I don't get in the habit of putting stuff out there to benefit myself as far as ego goes etc.

    I don't think there is a lot of value in putting out videos as there isn't a lot to be gotten out of them as far as teaching and learning goes without the extra context of discourse and filling out the understanding.

    No offense to you guys that like throwing stuff on youtube. I just don't and can't be bothered with it.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  6. #111
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    I remember winning tourneys with my 20 pounder. I would "present my weapon" to the judges. Most of them were karateka who were using light as a feather toothpicks for staves. So when I gently dropped the thing horizontally on to their hands the look of surprise was priceless. LOL. ah the memories....

    Then I proceeded to do a form which they thought would have no speed or power. They didn't know the weapon is a balancing act. Neither did some of my competitors that tried and failed to finish their forms. LOL.

  7. #112
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    Using a heavier than normal weapon to train with is pretty standard stuff.
    Fighting with one is a sure way to get your hands cut off.
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  8. #113
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    That's priceless, Lebaufist!

    My first school, Lam Kwoon, used to pride itself on heavy weapons and had similar experiences, although we seldom competed in the Opens.

    I've had this longstanding fantasy of creating a special division for TCKFMCV that featured a uber-heavy Kwan Dao. I wanted to build a custom super heavy Kwan Dao and let the winner take it home. I hoped to use one of the old Dragon Well blades, make a end spike and fit them on a fat solid metal shaft, but I haven't found an affordable maker and don't have access to that sort of heavy machinery. I have no budget for this unfortunately. I could get Tiger Claw to donate the blade, but the spike and the shaft, as well as assembly, that would cost. Then we'd need to find some competitors that could enter, although I've already discussed the idea with a few local traditional folk and they were all for it.
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  9. #114
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    [QUOTE=GeneChing;1199678]...I wanted to build a custom super heavy Kwan Dao and let the winner take it home. I hoped to use one of the old Dragon Well blades, make a end spike and fit them on a fat solid metal shaft...QUOTE]

    Hm. I might be interested in doing this myself. Where would you find a metal shaft that wouldn't bend or distort during training? 2" steel round stock? I wonder what gymnastics bars are made of. I might be able to access retired well drilling bits and shafts.

    I still have a giant Kwan dao that I bought from Brendan Lai in the early '70s. It has a good feel but for training I like to use a heftier ice chipping bar that is just over 17 pounds, solid steel, but even at just under two inches in diameter it bends enough for me to feel the vibration at the end of a stroke. With a heavier head it might be a bit wobbly.
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  10. #115
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    I was thinking bar stock

    Back when I used to make swords for the Armoury, we used to purchase bar stock from an industrial metal supplier that was just a few blocks down the street (this was S.F. SOMA district). We had a metal cutter and used to dice it up for arming sword pommels.

    Gymnastic bars are usually wood. I was thinking that barbell bars might work too, but they'd be a ***** to cut.
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  11. #116
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    Depends on the range

    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Using a heavier than normal weapon to train with is pretty standard stuff.
    Fighting with one is a sure way to get your hands cut off.
    Eeeeeeeeee, no, the KD as a speedier weapon is held close to the hilt and uses the shaft as a counter balance with most of the weight trailing behind leaving the blade to maneuver faster. The Longer movements were longer range swings using its center point and full body movement instead of just muscling it. Which wouldn't be a good idea to walk in to. The KD really teaches how to manipulate heavy objects with its center in mind. Trying to force that puppy around is not the point.
    Last edited by Lebaufist; 12-03-2012 at 03:41 PM.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebaufist View Post
    Eeeeeeeeee, no, the KD as a speedier weapon is held close to the hilt and uses the shaft as a counter balance with most of the weight trailing behind leaving the blade to maneuver faster. The Longer movements were longer range swings using its center point and full body movement instead of just muscling it. Which wouldn't be a good idea to walk in to. The KD really teaches how to manipulate heavy objects with its center in mind. Trying to force that puppy around is not the point.


    historically, guan dao is a cavalry heavy weapon. you dont block or parry with it. when you dismount you drop it and use sidearm.
    Last edited by bawang; 12-03-2012 at 04:05 PM.

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  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    historically, guan dao is a cavalry heavy weapon. you dont block or parry with it. when you dismount you use sidearm.
    True, BUT, the usage on horseback was pretty much along those lines. You just can't wield it without playing with the center. And unless you just held it there and rode by passively, you still had move it to fight with it. I disagree about the no parrying.

    Also, if thrown from your horse, it might be the only option you have.
    Last edited by Lebaufist; 12-03-2012 at 04:08 PM.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebaufist View Post
    You just can't wield it without playing with the center. And unless you just held it there and rode by passively, you still had move it to fight with it.
    actually thats exactly how it was used. you hold it out and ride by passively, just like jousting.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lebaufist View Post
    Also, if thrown from your horse, it might be the only option you have.
    they use sidearms. if you look at chinese paintings or statues of soldiers or war gods, they all have a sidearm.
    Last edited by bawang; 12-03-2012 at 04:14 PM.

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  15. #120
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    This is strictly your opinion. I just don't see it that way at all. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. It would be a useless weapon if used that way against others on horseback with spears and lighter weapons.

    Or, on the ground to throw away your only long weapon is a mistake. A sword against a battalion of spears is a poor bet. No matter what the wu jia movies would like you to think.

    From what I've garnered, the succession of weapons was need. Longer to shorter.

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