Long and short range Tan Sao

[stonecrusher69]

In this video I show how the Tan Sao is applied in long and short ranges, and the concept of the short and long range Tan Sao as used in Wing Chun.

[Vajramusti]

In this video I show how the Tan Sao is applied in long and short ranges, and the concept of the short and long range Tan Sao as used in Wing Chun.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently in your wing chun. Your so called long tan sao IMO is not really a tansao
and it is over reaching. Possible witha much smaller person ina demo.

[stonecrusher69]

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently in your wing chun. Your so called long tan sao IMO is not really a tansao
and it is over reaching. Possible witha much smaller person ina demo.

You have a myopic view of what you think Tan sao is.

[YouKnowWho]

I like your long Tan Shou principle. The reason is simple. If you can extend your hand closer to your opponent's face, you are fighting in his territory and you are not fighting in your own territory. This is the opposite of the boxing guard that you try to use your arms to protect your own head.

- Your "long Tan Shou",
- my "rhino guard", and
- the old man's "zombie arms",

all use similar concept.

[stonecrusher69]

I like your long Tan Shou principle. The reason is simple. If you can extend your hand closer to your opponent's face, you are fighting in his territory and you are not fighting in your own territory. This is the opposite of the boxing guard that you try to use your arms to protect your own head.

- Your "long Tan Shou",
- my "rhino guard", and
- the old man's "zombie arms",

all use similar concept.

Thanks..".fighting in there space not yours" I like that..

[YouKnowWho]

Thanks..".fighting in there space not yours" I like that..

In some of Muhammad Ali's fights, he liked to extend his left arm, put his left glove right in front of his opponent's face and ready to punch his opponent with his right hand. His left hand not only blocked his opponent's view, it also forced his opponent to cover his face and played defense.

This concept is used in both boxing and football.

[stonecrusher69]

In some of Muhammad Ali's fights, he liked to extend his left arm, put his left glove right in front of his opponent's face and ready to punch his opponent with his right hand. His left hand not only blocked his opponent's view, it also forced his opponent to cover his face and played defense.

This concept is used in both boxing and football.

it's like putting up a wall in front of your opponent.

[boxerbilly]

SC,

Please continue to decipher. Certainly you will get this is wrong, that's not what we do. You are violating this or that. From their point of view they may in fact be correct. But from your point of view you are correct. Both sides will have reason why that is so. I appreciate you taking the time to demonstrate and explain with your videos.

[boxerbilly]

YouKnowWho,

Wing Chun shares many similarities with certain eras of bareknuckle boxing. There are a handful of guys around the world trying to recreate it. That is what happens when people close doors and stop sharing. In boxing's case it is more to do with the evolution of the art. Like Judo it evolved into primarily sport and techniques and tactics changed to accommodate the rules. Obviously that had to happen to be successful in the ring. Unfortunately it means the older ways that had/ have the potential to be viable out of the ring are for all intensive purpose lost. So these guys have to experiment with what was written down and decipher the miniscule amount of pictures or illustration that are left from those eras. It really becomes a guess. The smarter ones go outside of boxing to find similarities in other arts, to fill in the gaps on things that do not make sense. Best we can do. Those era's of the art were lost to time and discarded because they did not fit the direction boxing was going. Why I love that there are traditionalist in other arts.

Another reason for using that extended lead is to create more distance between you and the other guy to increase the time you have to react. It does not work so well when one is over run. Ideally with the inclusion of footwork you will not be over run. That would be the ideal anyway.
All your reasons are equally valid.

[Grumblegeezer]

YouKnowWho,

Wing Chun shares many similarities with certain eras of bareknuckle boxing. There are a handful of guys around the world trying to recreate it.

Like this guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z03QycJM__Q

[boxerbilly]

Like this guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z03QycJM__Q

Yes. Still, like anything. Even they disagree. Personally, I would not discard anything modern just for the sake of keeping it historically accurate. But again, I am glad there are those that want to keep it as close to the original as they are able. Some refuse to look outside of boxing or western arts other will look into Asian arts to find answers. Some are amazing at finding the history and sources. Many are to old to partake and they tend to be the guys that locate the material. A passion of theirs.

Anyway, is it good, bad, same, different, better, worse? I guess that would depend on your point of view and what it is you are seeking from something.

Here is a video of Carl Cestari. He also used to teach this but most came to him for WW2 combatives. Carl had a strong background in Japanese arts. He died a few years back. This may be the first video anyone ever did to try and recreate a functional bareknuckle system based on older way. Did he ? For himself I would say , absolutely. He was hardcore but you may not be able to discern that from the video. Carl was also not against using modern if it was better and fit with what he recreated. Surprisingly Carl never participated in sport boxing. But his knowledge of boxing was great. I never met Carl personally but we communicated a lot. Later we had a falling out. Short reason, I stood up for another teacher of WW2 methods. Even that has it's bull**** politics. I was saddened when he passed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I-j-II9Wjk

[boxerbilly]

Dan Djurdjevic, I enjoy is blog very much. Dan is one smart thinker.

http://dandjurdjevic.blogspot.com/20...ytons-gap.html

Anyway, enough of that from me. I would not want to be accused of trolling a thread by taking it off topic even if I believe there is inter-relation.
This is StoneCrushers thread on tansao so I will post no more about boxing in it.

[JPinAZ]

In some of Muhammad Ali's fights, he liked to extend his left arm, put his left glove right in front of his opponent's face and ready to punch his opponent with his right hand. His left hand not only blocked his opponent's view, it also forced his opponent to cover his face and played defense.

Ali had great results with doing this, and was one of the greatest fighters of all time as he also regularly boasted - and rightly so!
Unfortunately, this 'technique' has little-to-nothing to do with WC's tan sau concept.

[JPinAZ]

Wing Chun shares many similarities with certain eras of bareknuckle boxing. There are a handful of guys around the world trying to recreate it. That is what happens when people close doors and stop sharing....

Having never trained in WC, how can you speak for the art? And who said WC needs recreating or people 'closing doors and not sharing'? I sure don't see that being the case in the lineages I've been fortunate enough to study..
I don't mean this to put you down, but maybe you could give some examples of what you mean in direct regards to your understanding WC's history and also how it stands today. While it's good to study and compare different arts, boxing has a totally different history and origin. IMO, it's best if you're going to point out shortcomings in the art of WC as you may see it today, maybe it would be best to give examples from a WC historical background as well

This is StoneCrushers thread on tansao so I will post no more about boxing in it.

Maybe you could share your thoughts on WC tan sao or the applications SC presented in his clip then?

[stonecrusher69]

SC,

Please continue to decipher. Certainly you will get this is wrong, that's not what we do. You are violating this or that. From their point of view they may in fact be correct. But from your point of view you are correct. Both sides will have reason why that is so. I appreciate you taking the time to demonstrate and explain with your videos.

How do you determine what is right and wrong? Is it wrong because you where told it is wrong or because your unfamiliar with a different point of view.

If you where told it is wrong how do you know it's correct.