Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Leto]

I haven't found videos of them online anywhere, yet. Believe me, I've looked. There is one video of a couple beginner brown belts joking around, and performing one of the tiger forms very poorly.
Another thing which makes me believe these forms may be unique is the dialect/language used to represent them. I wish I knew what the actual Chinese characters were, to have someone translate them using more common mandarin dialect. It's possible that it may be fujian/min dialect, but I'm not sure.

In mandarin, crane is pronounced "hur", romanized pinyin as "he", right?
Our crane forms are called "hao". Bai hao chuan se, bai hao huan se, bai hao huan jiao. likewise, many of our forms use the romanization "chien" for fist. I know pinyin romanization is "quan", though the actual pronounciation does sound very close to "chien", at least I've heard it spoken that way before.
Chie Chien, and ching kong fu hu chien.
I don't know if the language element means anything, but it may provide a clue to the origins of some of these forms, or at least the people who passed them on to the The family. With the actual characters for these names, we could find out for sure if the "official" translations are correct. I know I saw a list of forms, at one point, with characters and translations hand written. Maybe some of the guys from the east have a copy of it.

If I had a video camera and a space to do it, I'd think about putting up videos of myself doing some of these forms. I would love to hear what outside people have to say about them, if they recognize them or any elements of them.
I keep contemplating using my digital camera, which can make short videos, to do it, but the quality might be poor, and I'd need help from my wife to make sure it keeps me in frame

[Mas Judt]

I'd never pick on someone for posting thier practice - although with an 'unknown art' some explanation would be good for the parts you think 'rough.'

[kwaichang]

I have a copy what do you need ?? KC

[Leto]

kwaichang! If the handwritten chinese characters are decipherable, it would be cool to get someone who knows mandarin or cantonese to take a look at them and see how they translate it, and compare to what we've been told the translations are. I know that the Chinese written language can be tricky to translate.

Especially interested in Se Men Tao Lien, Tai Peng Sin Kun, and the brown belt forms. I guess the first step would just be scanning the document, or part of it, so the rest of us can look at it to see if the characters are legible. The next step would be finding the aforementioned Chinese readers, which might be the hard part. It might be possible to go through dictionaries looking for the equivalents, too, based on what we think the translation is, but that method is really hit or miss. I've done this already, but without knowing what the actual characters are, I can only guess on what the correct words are.

I'm not really worried about being picked on if I put up a video. (even though I look funny, and people might laugh) I just want to make sure my whole body is in frame, with enough light and at a good camera angle to see everything pretty clearly. And enough open space so that I don't have to modify any steps of the form. Having a school to train in, we take these things for granted sometimes

[kwaichang]

I will try to photograph it and scan it and post it for all to see. KC

[Leto]

thanks, that would be awesome!

I know the language thing may not really be all that important, but it has just bugged me ever since I started CSC. As an assistant instructor, folks would ask me questions when our head instructor would move on to the next group. Anything I didn't know the answer to, I'd say "let's ask teacher when he comes back"...but I know for a fact he doesn't know any more than I do about what the name really means. "reversibly facing four directions"? Just do it. *lol* I like to have more concrete answers for people, even on non-technical issues relating to what I'm teaching.

[kwaichang]

I hope this works and you can read them KC I think they exceed the limit. cant fig how to upload w/o exceed limit.

[NJM]

I hope this works and you can read them KC I think they exceed the limit. cant fig how to upload w/o exceed limit.

Oh, Kwai, go to http://www.imageshack.us and upload your image there. Just paste the image's URL that you get into a forum post so we can view it that way.

[Leto]

That's a better idea than my plan. *lol*, thanks for reminding us of imageshack. photobucket.com works, too.

[kungfujunky]

i have heard Se Men Tao Lien called four doorway break as well



the thing i have noticed with sd/csc is that from white to first/second black we are taught a very truly kun tao/karate like style.

once we get into black belt though the forms and styles truly become more cma in flavor and substance but the translation of the forms into movement is probably different than what others would call cma.

with our early training in snap and power,rooting ,stance work and the drills we do we develop an almost hard like edge to our movements.

although we balance this with our tai chi/chi kung (which truth be told not very many people do well with that i have seen which is really frustrating) there is still our root focus on power generation and defining movements. these principles tend to slow down our forms and make them look choppy or unlike what the true principles of the system would dictate for the style. like tiger crane or pa kua or drunken. these styles take on a flavor that is not theirs but is so ingrained in the way we train we cant really stop it without truly delving into the meanings of each individual style. and since so many of us train for fun and fitness that is why what is posted on the net looks so wrong to some.


if we were to post a pa kua form for instance(or perhaps just 1 kua) and post it i would bet it would look different to most. but if we got constructive advice on how to do it the generally accepted way we could alter a few little things and bam! traditional cma


its not that we dont train in traditional cma. we just train it differently from most. we focus on application, power generation, snap, stances and rooting and the overall well being the training brings us. i.e. health and longevity.



sd/csc has a wealth of kung fu knowledge in it. you just have to get to it through the layers of change that the style has taken to get here.

mas judt just out of curiosity where are you located?

[brucereiter]

if we were to post a pa kua form for instance(or perhaps just 1 kua) and post it i would bet it would look different to most. but if we got constructive advice on how to do it the generally accepted way we could alter a few little things and bam! traditional cma

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eI3mMhNMbLU

[NJM]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eI3mMhNMbLU

I can't tell in the video, but are you stable enough in your stance that I could press hard on your lead hand and you wouldn't fall?

[kwaichang]

I agree are you following the rules of PaKua ? sitting like a tiger etc. KC

[Leto]

i have heard Se Men Tao Lien called four doorway break as well

the thing i have noticed with sd/csc is that from white to first/second black we are taught a very truly kun tao/karate like style.

once we get into black belt though the forms and styles truly become more cma in flavor and substance but the translation of the forms into movement is probably different than what others would call cma.

I have heard it called that, as well. Si (Se) Men is definately four door. But I haven't been able to identify that word "lien" or "lian" as "break" or anything like that. Dao could possibly really be "da", which is strike or hit...but I still can't find a good meaning for "lian" that makes sense in this context. I just don't know enough about the language. With the actual characters we could put this to rest, I hope it's legible!

I disagree that we teach a karate like style...maybe kuntao like, but kuntao is supposed to be the Indonesian word for Chinese martial arts, right? The most karate-like part are the one step sparring and techniques at yellow and blue, and the nunchaku spinning, I guess. The forms, right from the beginning, are definately nothing like any Okinawan or Japanese karate kata. The basic staff spins and form are not Okinawan in any way. They maybe taught and practiced in a way that doesn't "flow" really well, but their content is not karate at all. Even the Lohan short forms, while we pratice them in a way that you might see in a karate school, moving from one side of the school to the other, they are not at all like karate basics (and I believe other Chinese arts have drills like this, too, like tan tui).
The only thing that makes people think it looks like karate is the halting manner in which it is performed sometimes (and the fact that we're usually wearing a gi).
If the basic and brown belt forms were performed with the right "flavor", they'd look like "real cma" as well, I believe. I'll test out that theory with my videos, if I ever manage to make them.

I'm sure you're right, the way we are taught early on affects the way we perform the more recognizeable "cma" forms later on, like the drunken style and the hua fist, and the hsing i.

[Mas Judt]

Um, while Karate has influenced some Kun Tao, I would not group the two together. There is a world of difference between most Kun Tao and Karate. You guys do Karate probably because Sin The' learned Karate or elements of it.