Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
An excellent point.
I have found much in common with WC in the SPM I studied and the Dragon Shape boxing I am currently studying.
I recall in the beginning my SPM Shifu had to remind me every so often that "this is not WC" because I found myself flowing into it because the situation called for it, know what I mean?
He could tell that the "look" wasn't just right BUT that had to do with (according to him) not WHAT I was doing but how it was flowing.
I know exactly what you mean. A given martial art has its own biomechanic or "engine", regardless of how people dislike that word. It is part of the physical expression and drives how one generates power and flows from technique to technique. Your Shifu obviously recognized your Wing Chun "biomechanic". I'll bet as you got better at SPM that biomechanic or "engine" changed in subtle ways that you didn't really realize were different until later. So the concepts you are using may be the same, like the concept of defending the centerline, but the physical expression may be different.

That ability to make use of the "engine" and flow easily between various techniques is important. That is why I don't feel that sparring is the "be all and end all" that some make it out to be. I DO believe that sparring is an important part of a training program and everyone should take part at times. But, like Chi Sau, I also think sparring can be over-done and over-emphasized. Some important aspects of Wing Chun just aren't going to come out in a sparring scenario. So if someone is over-emphasizing sparring and not really training their Wing Chun as it was designed to be trained, then they are going to be missing a lot of elements.

Now I know some are thinking and getting ready to type "What works in sparring is important and what counts! If it doesn't show up in sparring then its not worth training anyway!" But I don't believe that. What works in sparring is kickboxing. Its has been my experience that the more emphasis and time spent on sparring the more and more the people doing it start to look like kickboxing. This is because basic kickboxing is what works! So people begin to naturally adapt what they are doing to be more and more like kickboxing...whether they are doing it consciously or not. Their structure and technique starts to change if they are not really working to train their Wing Chun and retain it. Heck, just look at just about any classic martial art that puts on the gloves and steps into the ring. Where are all the cool techniques from their forms? Why is it you can't tell the Hung Ga guy from the TKD guy? Its because they all resort to some adaptation of kickboxing. Because THAT is what works in THAT scenario!

How many joint locks and leverage takedowns and such are going to show up in sparring? Very little! I still say that controlling and disrupting the opponent's center of balance is an important part of Wing Chun, but it typically doesn't play a large part in sparring. Does that mean these things are unimportant? No! They are very important in a self-defense situation. I've stated before and I'll say it again....realistic training is not limited to just sparring. Sparring is a relatively narrow expression of any martial art (except kickboxing!), including Wing Chun.

So, for me, whether or not something works in sparring with my buddies is NOT the gold standard. Sparring is a limited aspect of overall training, just as Chi Sau is a limited aspect of overall training. Sparring is one form of realistic training, but not the only form. Important aspects of a martial art may work very well in a self-defense scenario and never show up at all when sparring with your buddies. And I know this will sound cliché and has been said as a cop out by many before me, but there are just some aspects of what we can do that are too brutal to use on your buddies when sparring because someone would get hurt. Just an example....a foot-trap to a leverage takedown is designed to rip apart the opponent's ankle or knee. That's not something you want to do to a friend, and if your timing is not just right you are going to hurt them if you try it in sparring. You're thinking "Wing chun doesn't do foot-traps or leverage takedowns!" Well, mine does!