The irrationality of gloved sparring

[k gledhill]

Even though I've never been to a boxing gym, I know it's so easy and even a cave man can do it, my cousin told me so. It's just body-level, muscle stuff. One strike from my monkey beak and it's LIGHTS OUT YOU JOCK. HA HA HA.

Been doing monkey beak wing chun for six months now and gonna open up my own school soon to spread the wisdom.

Someone's forgotten their meds today !

[Dragonzbane76]

a) it encourages you to hit in a way that will mean you break your hand on the first or second punch, unless you are a girl or a small child

b) it trains false reactions, in both the puncher and punchee, that only hold when gloves are worn

c) it instills dangerous false confidence based on a model that is not close to reality. Gloved sparring is in some ways the opposite of Kano's genius in revolutionising grappling with randori. Randori removes the dangerous techniques while allowing realistic grappling training with full resistance. Gloved sparring actually accentuates the dangerous techniques while providing a completely false framework of action and reaction.

lol just lol....wake up.

[pazman]

Someone's forgotten their meds today !

I don't feel so bad, it looks like guy b forgets them everyday.

[wingchunIan]

And now a word from our sponsor:

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These and These cost a little more and they take more courage to use, but they'll give you a margin of safety and almost no hand restriction.

Can't even believe stores are still selling some of this crap. Gloves have been developed for MMA that allow complete movement and provide padding to the striking area

[JPinAZ]

Can't even believe stores are still selling some of this crap. Gloves have been developed for MMA that allow complete movement and provide padding to the striking area

actually, those cheesy cloth looking ones probably aren't that bad for someone that doesn't have much money - better than nothing

[guy b.]

I am saying look at the skill levels produced by sport fighters wearing gloves. Those skills don't just evaporate when you take the gloves off. A good boxer remains a good boxer even when he doesn't have on gloves or have his cup or mouthpiece or even headgear.

Boxing skills are only useful with gloves on.

1. Opponent reactions are different with gloves off; skills developed wearing gloves do not map to reality without gloves.

2. Hands break punching like a boxer with gloves off. Breaking your hand is very dangerous if someone is trying to hurt you.

[guy b.]

Gloves, 4-6 oz mma style, are great for vt sparring, they allow intercepting lines and all our hand techniques. Light contact with bare knuckles will cut a lip as soon as look at it.
I do mix up sparring and drilling with or without. Knowing when to use open hand strikes on guys who come in head down is important in bare handed fights to avoid injuries and allow easy 100 % power shots with no fear of hand injury to skulls. It is from sparring injuries that you learn what to avoid and what to adopt before doing it for real and a guy drops his head as you punch.

Larger gloves impede vt techniques. One of our major hand concepts is shut down if we can't strike using a specific line. Try this with 12-oz + boxing gloves and you end up striking in parallel and trade punches down the center. It would induce head slips to compensate for lack of arm interception.

Those gloves look like a decent compromise and might be useful for some purposes.

[guy b.]

what is the option if not gloved sparring

Regular light contact and occasional heavy contact sparring without gloves including headshots. Regular body contact sparring. You know, the kind of thing that all Chinese MA do all of the time and have done for a very long time.

because that really has been shown to produce good street fighters hasnt it............

Yes it has

[Lucas]

can boxing be used without gloves? yes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTbgpc_HeM0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4ehL45sTJQ

[guy b.]

can boxing be used without gloves? yes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTbgpc_HeM0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4ehL45sTJQ

These show very light contact being made on almost all shots. The reason is twofold: training in gloves throws off distancing without gloves and hitting hard with a boxing punch ungloved results in broken hands

[Vajramusti]

you can do some wing chun drills with gloves or without gloves-if you know what you are doing
and use wing chun structure and dynamics.

[guy b.]

you can do some wing chun drills with gloves or without gloves-if you know what you are doing
and use wing chun structure and dynamics.

Not much you can do with boxing gloves on in my experience. Maybe Kev's little gloves would be better for some things but never a total solution

[Vajramusti]

Not much you can do with boxing gloves on in my experience. Maybe Kev's little gloves would be better for some things but never a total solution

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We just have different POVs.

[Lucas]

These show very light contact being made on almost all shots. The reason is twofold: training in gloves throws off distancing without gloves and hitting hard with a boxing punch ungloved results in broken hands

doesnt matter. its boxing being used in real life. in fact its solid evidence that when needed, a trained boxer will adjust properly and apply their boxing in a realistic manner to defend/fight. boxers punch well 'through' their target anyway, the distance and timing in any fight, sport or life, is a very alive thing, so the gloves actually do not effect distancing due to the constant change and fluid nature of the relationship of distance, and the necessity to constantly adjust yourself to all the variables included in creating and closing distance.

long time boxers are very aware of how to punch without gloves, all of them do it on a regular basis.

furthermore, people who spar without gloves on are not making true contact with headshots, so it could be counter argued that when the **** hits the fan, their strikes will be too weak to finish the job. i dont believe this but its the exact same mindset.

[wenshu]

The reason is twofold: training in gloves throws off distancing without gloves and hitting hard with a boxing punch ungloved results in broken hands

So how do you explain nearly 2 centuries of bare knuckle boxing?

Based on this topic I seriously doubt you've done much with your hands gloved or not.