I would not say your point is not valid, i am saying you need to define your point otherwise no one knows what you are talking about and I dont want to guess.


Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
ok, just checking - sometimes it's hard to tell with you


but it is - by the time you explain it, you are out of the experience; not saying this as a cop-out, it's really true - i mean, as you know, I CAN talk about it at length from an anatomical / physiological perspective, but you know, I've done that here so many times, even I start to get bored w the "sound" of my own voice (); but beyond that, beyond the words, there is the experience; you can label it anyway you want, but the label isn't the experience; I know you know this, this is rudimentary stuff


yes - do it a 1000x wrong and you will get "it" too, lol;


well, it is, given that CH'an means "suchness" or "things such as they are"; but one can say it w out knowing this


true; but one can also "discover" spontaneously on one's own (nature is nature; the potential is there for anyone); for example, my wife studied yoga on her own for years, never had a teacher; she finally went to take the certification course so she could teach it, and the instructors were blown away by her understanding (she got the highest grade in the class); of course, she read, and had limited interactions w some teachers over the years, but most was her own self-exploration; so it's a "natural" technology", that is "out there", waiting to be found, so to speak...


I agree - but, at least in my personal experience, the means by which this particular "technology" can be communicated is less about words, although they are a part, but direct interaction; for example - my push-hands were "stuck"; so I stopped doing it with adults and only with kids (I would do it as part of their PT training, so it actualy benefited them - really - and that got me over the block - and not a word was spoken (well, the kids had fun, they giggled a lot);

point is that unlike engeneering technology that requires exact reproduction everytime, the practice of taiji / qigong, etc., is / should NOT be exactly the same everytime!