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Thread: Chi Sao with sifu

  1. #1
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    Chi Sao with sifu

    Rare video of me and my Sifu practicing so lite chi sao.https://youtu.be/38qT9KgwWuk

    http://https://youtu.be/38qT9KgwWuk
    http://www.facebook.com/sifumcilwrath
    http://www.youtube.com/user/sifumcilwrath



    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

  2. #2
    Thanks for sharing.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    Thanks for sharing.
    Your welcome...I was hoping to get some dialogue going but it seems his forum
    has died
    http://www.facebook.com/sifumcilwrath
    http://www.youtube.com/user/sifumcilwrath



    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

  4. #4
    Yes sir, that would be great.

    Hopefully you can turn that around .

  5. #5
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    Morning,

    Without wanting to disparage the clip, I tend to think of this more of an example of a push hands type of drill than traditional Chi Sau.
    Not saying that is bad, but certainly different than what I normally envision as Chi Sau.
    Do you have the more traditional drills as well?
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    Morning,

    Without wanting to disparage the clip, I tend to think of this more of an example of a push hands type of drill than traditional Chi Sau.
    Not saying that is bad, but certainly different than what I normally envision as Chi Sau.
    Do you have the more traditional drills as well?
    Yes, I do also the traditional Luk sao platform also...just wanted to show something different
    http://www.facebook.com/sifumcilwrath
    http://www.youtube.com/user/sifumcilwrath



    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

  7. #7
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    No worries, different is always nice to see.

    Funny thing is that when I got into Wing Chun I though our system was the only one with "sensitivity training" like Chi Sau.
    However many arts have training methods to deal with "energy".

    A friend of mine who does Pekitit Tirisa and I used to work a serious which went from Chis Sau to Break in and Break Out and Hubub and back again.
    While very eclectic it was a lot of fun and got one used to working from non traditional angles.

    I can see the benefit of working the energy shown in the clip as long s you are aware and also train to close your center.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    No worries, different is always nice to see.

    Funny thing is that when I got into Wing Chun I though our system was the only one with "sensitivity training" like Chi Sau.
    However many arts have training methods to deal with "energy".

    A friend of mine who does Pekitit Tirisa and I used to work a serious which went from Chis Sau to Break in and Break Out and Hubub and back again.
    While very eclectic it was a lot of fun and got one used to working from non traditional angles.

    I can see the benefit of working the energy shown in the clip as long s you are aware and also train to close your center.
    Oh yeah I agree you have to close your center, eventhough your center is open so is his so neither have an advantage
    http://www.facebook.com/sifumcilwrath
    http://www.youtube.com/user/sifumcilwrath



    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
    Oh yeah I agree you have to close your center, eventhough your center is open so is his so neither have an advantage
    On this I kind of disagree......

    What I mean is that if your understanding is greater you can lead your opponent and take advantage of his "open center"
    What I am getting at is that each method of stance shifting, Heels, Center, Balls of feet have advanatages and disadvantages.
    The more you understand the better you can utilize each approach and better to understand the weakness by an opponent presenting one approach.

    My old Sigung would say you could not fight from a low stance.
    Then he would take a low stance and kick the crap out of us from that low stance.
    The understanding of the pros and cons made this possible.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    take advantage of his "open center" ...
    Agree! You want to "open your opponent's center". IMO, both Taiji push hand and WC sticky hand are used to fight for "dominate arms position". You want your arms to be

    - on top (so you will have weight advantage), and
    - inside (so you can separate your opponent's arms away from his body),

    of your opponent's arms. The "sensitive" is just the byproduct of the training. This way, you will have your "goal".
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 11-22-2016 at 12:41 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    - on top (so you will have weight advantage), and
    - inside (so you can separate your opponent's arms away from his body),.
    Could you describe in more detail how you place your hands both on top and also inside???
    To my thinking this would more likely cause your energy to press outward but if your hands are on top this would seem to require you to either hook the opponents arms or use a larger circle movement to press outwards. Think Kow Sau.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    Could you describe in more detail how you place your hands both on top and also inside???
    To my thinking this would more likely cause your energy to press outward but if your hands are on top this would seem to require you to either hook the opponents arms or use a larger circle movement to press outwards. Think Kow Sau.
    My favor "strategy" is to use my right hand to grab (or soft hold, or downward parry) on my opponent's left wrist. When he tries to rotate his arm to deal with it, I then slide my right hand along his left arm, put palm on top of his left elbow joint and inside his left arm. My left hand can do the same with his right arm at the same time.

    When I'm in that position (it's called mantis hands in CMA), my arms are in a "dominate position". I can punch or clinch. All game will start from there.

    The reason it's called "dominate position" because when you are there, your opponent can neither punch you nor wrestle you.

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    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 11-22-2016 at 02:34 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    On this I kind of disagree......

    What I mean is that if your understanding is greater you can lead your opponent and take advantage of his "open center"
    What I am getting at is that each method of stance shifting, Heels, Center, Balls of feet have advanatages and disadvantages.
    The more you understand the better you can utilize each approach and better to understand the weakness by an opponent presenting one approach.

    My old Sigung would say you could not fight from a low stance.
    Then he would take a low stance and kick the crap out of us from that low stance.
    The understanding of the pros and cons made this possible.
    when we are playing chi sao we sometimes leave the center open to bait ghe oponent. It's a tactical move..a chess game
    http://www.facebook.com/sifumcilwrath
    http://www.youtube.com/user/sifumcilwrath



    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
    when we are playing chi sao we sometimes leave the center open to bait ghe oponent. It's a tactical move..a chess game
    It was said that Yip Man did not like to do Chi Sau with students as he would be required to create openings to them.
    I believe he said this could lead to bad habits.

    I understand tactics, at least I hope I do
    Refer to my post where I say as long as you have a better understanding of the pros and cons you can do many things.

    Then again, my understanding may only be rudimentary as I admit I still have much to learn.
    Especially as regards women.................................does anyone understand them????
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
    Yes, I do also the traditional Luk sao platform also...just wanted to show something different
    Light touch practicing huen sao? Running around?

    No centerline there. It certainly is different from what we practice. I can hear GM Garrett Gee's voice echoing in my head "we live AND die on the centerline".

    But people do chi sau for all sorts of reasons. I'm not a real big fan of the flowey flowery stuff. It is more towards this kind of thing:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLSKs8bEdq4

    IMO without centerline structure there is no ability to intercept force. It is all "loi lau" and no "hoi sung", because the softness is crashed by the force beyond the boundaries of its own structure. I don't think it will hold up to sparring level forces.

    I do realize the Luk sao Ip Man platform has some more centerline structure.

    Anyway there's your wish - some discussion on KFO - lol.

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