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Thread: Tommy Yuen Man Fung - Knives and Pole

  1. #1

    Tommy Yuen, Man Fung - Knives and Pole

    Last edited by BPWT; 09-17-2013 at 05:07 AM.
    No mocking, tongue-in-cheek signature here... move on.

  2. #2
    Monty Python's take on the Long Pole and Knives

  3. #3
    I hadn't heard of Tommy Yuen before. Apparently he was one of the senior guys under WSL.
    No mocking, tongue-in-cheek signature here... move on.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT View Post
    I hadn't heard of Tommy Yuen before. Apparently he was one of the senior guys under WSL.
    Very good fighter apparently.

  5. #5
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    Well, this is the first time I have seen this type of demo online... maybe influenced by the recent Ip Man movies??

    Brings on the whole 'do we ever turn our back' debate, but in this context I can see it working due to the body barring the pole for just about long enough to get into position for the chop... quite typical in southern knife work I have seen and a nice intent on the receiving blades too
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    Brings on the whole 'do we ever turn our back' debate, but in this context I can see it working due to the body barring the pole for just about long enough to get into position for the chop... quite typical in southern knife work I have seen and a nice intent on the receiving blades too
    Just MHO, in the video, turning your back 360 before finishing your opponent may violates the economy of motion concept.

    He had already intercepted/controlling the pole, why not just keep "walking" the knives down, cut the forward hand and than ... any other available body parts.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by wtxs View Post
    Just MHO, in the video, turning your back 360 before finishing your opponent may violates the economy of motion concept.

    He had already intercepted/controlling the pole, why not just keep "walking" the knives down, cut the forward hand and than ... any other available body parts.
    That was my thought exactly! What did turning his back by spinning around accomplish?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    That was my thought exactly! What did turning his back by spinning around accomplish?
    He did it as a form of advancement, moving to the opponent to the dead side.

    Staying in front of the guy and walking down the pole would have given him a chance to counter, he did it as a way to move to the space the pole fighter wouldn't have had leverage.

    I've not done WC swords so I wouldn't propose to justify if it fits into that framework, but from being a wudang sword guy, it looks just fine.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    That was my thought exactly! What did turning his back by spinning around accomplish?
    I was surprised by this also. Its not a thing turning your back.. Sigung Wsl I believe would't indorse this idea Within the form i know there's no turning of the back This to me is as bad as flipping the Knifes debate Anything which compromise your own safety isn't correct VT Imho
    Last edited by Jansingsang; 09-19-2013 at 02:48 AM.

  10. #10
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    Staying in front of the guy and walking down the pole would have given him a chance to counter,

    ---The way I see it, the only real option the pole wielder had to counter was to sidestep with a "Taan Gwan" motion. He was free to do this whether the knife wielder had his back turned or not. By turning his back, the knife wielder disengaged his knives from contact with the pole and therefore some control of the pole. This makes it more likely, not less likely that the pole wielder will have a chance to counter.

    he did it as a way to move to the space the pole fighter wouldn't have had leverage.

    --But he could simply step forward into the same space without spinning.

    I've not done WC swords so I wouldn't propose to justify if it fits into that framework, but from being a wudang sword guy, it looks just fine.

    ---Maybe he is drawing from a background in other Chinese sword work. But from a Wing Chun standpoint it seems to me it is wasted motion and an unnecessary risk. But I'm no expert with the weapons either.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by wtxs View Post
    Just MHO, in the video, turning your back 360 before finishing your opponent may violates the economy of motion concept.

    He had already intercepted/controlling the pole, why not just keep "walking" the knives down, cut the forward hand and than ... any other available body parts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_H View Post
    He did it as a form of advancement, moving to the opponent to the dead side.

    Staying in front of the guy and walking down the pole would have given him a chance to counter, he did it as a way to move to the space the pole fighter wouldn't have had leverage.

    I've not done WC swords so I wouldn't propose to justify if it fits into that framework, but from being a wudang sword guy, it looks just fine.

    The idea of the economy of motion is not unique just of WC, any additional (wasted) move in the course of defend/attack serves only to give your opponent more chance of counter.

    Others had pointed out, he had lost "control" of the pole during the turning, with only one knife edge in contact, he could and will get smack in back of the head with an Tan Gwan ... as others also pointed out.

    Moving to the opponent's dead side?

  12. #12
    Those guys have no idea of knife fighting or pole fighting or at least it doesn't look like it.

  13. #13
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    Typically dismissive coments all round except for a non-WCK guy... interesting?? Sifu Yuen has passed away too I read and was one of WSLs original HK 4 senior disciples...

    http://sefuyuen.tripod.com/english/Photo.htm
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    ... and was one of WSLs original HK 4 senior disciples...
    But did he build an apartment over his garage? (sorry, I just couldn't resist )
    No mocking, tongue-in-cheek signature here... move on.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_H View Post
    He did it as a form of advancement, moving to the opponent to the dead side.

    Staying in front of the guy and walking down the pole would have given him a chance to counter, he did it as a way to move to the space the pole fighter wouldn't have had leverage.

    I've not done WC swords so I wouldn't propose to justify if it fits into that framework, but from being a wudang sword guy, it looks just fine.
    Whether you had played with the WC knives or not, economy of motion concept applies across all WC lineage, no matter how fast you can turn your back and reface you opponent, chance of getting hurt in that transition I personally would not take.

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