WCK and Ground Fighting

[Frost]

Well I think I already answer that, all system needed to be updated, and after all the groundfighting in CRCA starts to many years ago, I´m not saying we invent the wheel but we sure helped to improve it.

Now can showing inferior techniques help improve anything

[CRCAUSA]

RW is not trying to duplicate BJJ, that system is great just the way it is. He is trying to improve and update WC to offer something in a newer age against new fighting techniques. What is the alternative, just let someone work you over with no answer at all. My guess is if other WC instructors offered RW a better way to do it without leaving the WC system he would be most receptive. One of the great things about RW is he has an open mind. Something I have not seen with some other martial arts instuctors.

[CarlosCrcaporto]

If you think they are inferior that´s your problem not mine, how many of you try a technique in a real fight in the street? maybe you only try them in training or in competition, but in the streets the things are different, in the streets maybe somebody want to kill you and not just to win a trophy, in the streets the fights starts on your foot, and maybe, just mabe goes to the floor, but no one wants to be there, you want to know way? cause in the street the people have shoes to kick you and the floor is not soft like your gym so if you put me down to the floor maybe you hurt me, but for sure you are going to hurt you too, cause the streets floor is hard and not soft.

[Frost]

RW is not trying to duplicate BJJ, that system is great just the way it is. He is trying to improve and update WC to offer something in a newer age against new fighting techniques. What is the alternative, just let someone work you over with no answer at all. My guess is if other WC instructors offered RW a better way to do it without leaving the WC system he would be most receptive. One of the great things about RW is he has an open mind. Something I have not seen with some other martial arts instuctors.

improve and update by showing bad grappling defences to grappling situation?? Im sorry but this is silly to me and a sign of a closed not open mind

An open mind accepts there's something different out there that the styles founders never saw and embraces that fact
A closed mind refuses to accept this and instead looks inside his system (because it cant be beaten) to show its still relevant... even if what he is showing simply isnt as good as whats has gone before

[Frost]

If you think they are inferior that´s your problem not mine, how many of you try a technique in a real fight in the street? maybe you only try them in training or in competition, but in the streets the things are different, in the streets maybe somebody want to kill you and not just to win a trophy, in the streets the fights starts on your foot, and maybe, just mabe goes to the floor, but no one wants to be there, you want to know way? cause in the street the people have shoes to kick you and the floor is not soft like your gym so if you put me down to the floor maybe you hurt me, but for sure you are going to hurt you too, cause the streets floor is hard and not soft.

they are inferior from a grappling point of view, hence you dont seen anyone doing that sweep in that way, that mount escape or that attack from turtle and so on

And if its all about the street fight and they are turtled why not simple kick them in the head? why show going to your own knees

[CRCAUSA]

Rather than criticizing someone for trying to update their system maybe you should offer solid WC technique that would be better. I imagine all innovators at some time have been attacked for their new non traditional ideas. All part of the game.

[CarlosCrcaporto]

We are not there to convince anyone to do it our way, I already have the evidence I need to know that works great in the streets, if you like it the way you do it, fine, keep it.

[Frost]

What are your skills to say that are inferior? What is your experience in fight? Did you try any of these theciques in real fight?

from a grappling point of view: let me see a decade of submission grappling (training and competing) same length of time in MMA and also some street fights, your turn

And its not my skill saying this its the following ( which would be blindingly obvious to anone without a vested interest): BJJ doesnt use these defenses, neither does submission grappling (NO GI) nor do you see them anywhere in MMA (where strikes are allowed

This should tell any sane person that these techniques might be iffy if arts that actually grapple for a living DONT use them

[Alvarini]

Wise thoughts



Francisco Silva

Wing chun forever

Yes! Wise thoughts, Wayfaring! Thank you for your honesty!

[Alvarini]

from a grappling point of view: let me see a decade of submission grappling (training and competing) same length of time in MMA and also some street fights, your turn

And its not my skill saying this its the following ( which would be blindingly obvious to anone without a vested interest): BJJ doesnt use these defenses, neither does submission grappling (NO GI) nor do you see them anywhere in MMA (where strikes are allowed

This should tell any sane person that these techniques might be iffy if arts that actually grapple for a living DONT use them

I will not discuss it! I agree to disagree!

[CRCAUSA]

A couple of things come to mind. RW is not using BJJ but rather trying to find techniques that work within the WC frame work. He should be applauded for that in my opinion. RW is also not worried about using this in the MMA, this is not an MMA system. If you have some productive thoughts relative to using WC to help him out I'm sure he would consider it. Once again to RW's great credit he does have an open mind. He just wants to see if he can work this out within the WC framework. I would still be interested to know if any other WC instructors out there are also working on this?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Actually what Randy is doing is great.
A system must evolve to deal with the situations that it hasn't been presented with yet and WC, like any striking system, MUST address the grappling/mma scenario of the 21st century.
That said, to have the issues of what he is doing pointed out is also VERY, VERY important.
If you want to know if what you are doing is gonna work on a person from a specific system then ASK and TRY it on THEM.

[Robinhood]

A couple of things come to mind. RW is not using BJJ but rather trying to find techniques that work within the WC frame work. He should be applauded for that in my opinion. RW is also not worried about using this in the MMA, this is not an MMA system. If you have some productive thoughts relative to using WC to help him out I'm sure he would consider it. Once again to RW's great credit he does have an open mind. He just wants to see if he can work this out within the WC framework. I would still be interested to know if any other WC instructors out there are also working on this?

You don't need to add anything to wc, he is turning it into a typical karate style, 1000's of moves that can't be applied because there is no core, Tai-chi calls it empty shell with no gung.

You don't need more moves, develop the inside, forget about outside shiny car, find the motor, stop carrying your car around, or you will never go anywhere.

[WingChunNovice]

Actually what Randy is doing is great.
A system must evolve to deal with the situations that it hasn't been presented with yet and WC, like any striking system, MUST address the grappling/mma scenario of the 21st century.
That said, to have the issues of what he is doing pointed out is also VERY, VERY important.
If you want to know if what you are doing is gonna work on a person from a specific system then ASK and TRY it on THEM.

Evolution is key!

/salute
MS

[JPinAZ]

Rather than criticizing someone for trying to update their system maybe you should offer solid WC technique that would be better.

IMO, this question goes 180 degrees the other way from what WC is, and answering it doesn't do much in ways of promoting good WC discussion.

WC isn't about taking techniques out of a form and trying to find applications for them (except maybe at a beginner surface level idea of WC). WC is about using and understanding principle-based concepts and strategies in a physical confrontation that leads to fighting most efficiently as well as effectively. It's applying those ideas that leads to understanding the times & space for the proper tool/technique to be applied and is what's really at the heart of what WC is all about. And many of these ideas are applicable on the ground.

Not getting into what will/won't work in RW clips as that's already been covered by others, but I will say these are things I don't hear RW talking about too much if at all from a WC perspective which is a little dissapointing.