The flagship discussion roundtable of Kung Fu Magazine, open to all topics related to

[sanjuro_ronin]

Years ago I was involved a study that compared strike force of various MA.
It was for a study on protective gear.
We had to hit HB, dummies, force plates and a sparring partner.
All of them were hooked up with sensors to evaluate median and peak impact force ( not psi which gives a less than ideal reading for high velocity impacts).
There are also studies done on cadavers to see how much force is need to break bones, necks, ribs, things like that, for the automotive industry so they can design better protection for drives and passengers.

Some of the values thrown around come from those automotive studies on cadavers and crash dummies with sensors BUT a lot of them are just "made up" crap to be honest.

[Raipizo]

When it is surrounded by tensing tissue and pumping blood and when the bone is still 'alive' its going to be a dramatically different result.

I think it would be impossible to measure without some serious break of scientific ethics.

Ren you shall be the first subject, let me go grab my sledgehammer.

[Kellen Bassette]

Years ago I was involved a study that compared strike force of various MA.
It was for a study on protective gear.
We had to hit HB, dummies, force plates and a sparring partner.
All of them were hooked up with sensors to evaluate median and peak impact force ( not psi which gives a less than ideal reading for high velocity impacts).
There are also studies done on cadavers to see how much force is need to break bones, necks, ribs, things like that, for the automotive industry so they can design better protection for drives and passengers.

Some of the values thrown around come from those automotive studies on cadavers and crash dummies with sensors BUT a lot of them are just "made up" crap to be honest.

By any chance did you go through your own personal arsenal of kicks to see which were the strongest? I would love to do that...I'd always like to compare my crosses, hooks and uppercuts that way..

[David Jamieson]

By any chance did you go through your own personal arsenal of kicks to see which were the strongest? I would love to do that...I'd always like to compare my crosses, hooks and uppercuts that way..

You can do this. You can probably feel it out on devices like a heavy bag and such. If you want the actual measurements you might wanna try a night course in applied physics and get access to the measurement systems.

[sanjuro_ronin]

By any chance did you go through your own personal arsenal of kicks to see which were the strongest? I would love to do that...I'd always like to compare my crosses, hooks and uppercuts that way..

Yep, funny thing is that the strikes that were the most powerful on a static target ( heavy bag) weren't always the most powerful on a moving target.
Side kick is a perfect example.
Most powerful hand strike for me was the over hand right, followed closely by the left hook.
Kick was the round kick.
The was the case for the majority of people there.

[Frost]

Yep, funny thing is that the strikes that were the most powerful on a static target ( heavy bag) weren't always the most powerful on a moving target.
Side kick is a perfect example.
Most powerful hand strike for me was the over hand right, followed closely by the left hook.
Kick was the round kick.
The was the case for the majority of people there.

Gee wonder why MMA guys love the round house, overhand and the lead hook so much

If a style doesnt include the above in its arsenal of techniques you have to wonder just how good that style is

[sanjuro_ronin]

Gee wonder why MMA guys love the round house, overhand and the lead hook so much

If a style doesnt include the above in its arsenal of techniques you have to wonder just how good that style is

The step side kick and the spinning back kick were more powerful on the bag and dummy, but less so on a moving target, is was to be expected.
There was a TKD guy in the test who's lead leg round kick was as powerful as some of the guys rear leg round kick.
And VS a moving target, his speed was formidable.

[Kellen Bassette]

The step side kick and the spinning back kick were more powerful on the bag and dummy, but less so on a moving target, is was to be expected.
There was a TKD guy in the test who's lead leg round kick was as powerful as some of the guys rear leg round kick.
And VS a moving target, his speed was formidable.

I think it really depends what you develop. Most guys are convinced the roundhouse is king of the kicks, but I really believe a side thrust kick is much more powerful...I think most people just don't develop many kicks aside from the front kick and rear leg roundhouse.

I always imagine a spinning back kick should be the strongest, assuming you put the time in to develop it, but I prefer my lead leg side kick. It's dropped a lot of dudes as a counter to a punch. Most guys sidekick to the body, so you don't see the KO's you get from a roundhouse to the head...but it's definitely good for a TKO, or to set one up.

I'm always impressed by the guys with a real good lead roundhouse, though. It's easy to get power with the rear leg, so that's what most people work on... a lot of guys couldn't hurt you with the lead leg to save their lives. Lead leg is so much faster and infinitely less telegraphic. I forget his name, but there's a Karate fighter had a beautiful KO with lead roundhouse in his UFC debut earlier this year..he had some killer kicks...got wrecked on the ground in his second UFC fight though....

[Syn7]

I think it really depends what you develop. Most guys are convinced the roundhouse is king of the kicks, but I really believe a side thrust kick is much more powerful...I think most people just don't develop many kicks aside from the front kick and rear leg roundhouse.

I always imagine a spinning back kick should be the strongest, assuming you put the time in to develop it, but I prefer my lead leg side kick. It's dropped a lot of dudes as a counter to a punch. Most guys sidekick to the body, so you don't see the KO's you get from a roundhouse to the head...but it's definitely good for a TKO, or to set one up.

I'm always impressed by the guys with a real good lead roundhouse, though. It's easy to get power with the rear leg, so that's what most people work on... a lot of guys couldn't hurt you with the lead leg to save their lives. Lead leg is so much faster and infinitely less telegraphic. I forget his name, but there's a Karate fighter had a beautiful KO with lead roundhouse in his UFC debut earlier this year..he had some killer kicks...got wrecked on the ground in his second UFC fight though....

I use a thrusting front push kick like a jab to control distance. Sometimes, if it's available, I'll put something into it and go to the jaw.

I love round kicks. Love em. They feel real good and clean to me. But they aren't the hardest kick by any means.

It depends on the context. A pushing kick and a snapping kick and a driving kick are different. A side kick may be strong, but won't have the impact effect of like a spinning heel kick to the mouth. But then a side kick is easy to land, the other not so easy. They are all useful to a degree in the right context with the right opponent. I'm not really the type to use crescent kicks, but I've seen them work very well. So you know. It is what it is. I'm still amazed that MMA fans are so stupified by a simple front kick.

[Kellen Bassette]

I use a thrusting front push kick like a jab to control distance. Sometimes, if it's available, I'll put something into it and go to the jaw.

I love round kicks. Love em. They feel real good and clean to me. But they aren't the hardest kick by any means.

It depends on the context. A pushing kick and a snapping kick and a driving kick are different. A side kick may be strong, but won't have the impact effect of like a spinning heel kick to the mouth. But then a side kick is easy to land, the other not so easy. They are all useful to a degree in the right context with the right opponent. I'm not really the type to use crescent kicks, but I've seen them work very well. So you know. It is what it is. I'm still amazed that MMA fans are so stupified by a simple front kick.

I got to agree with all this, I like to practice a front snap, thrust and push kick. I use them for different scenarios. I like to hop in with a lead snap kick to cover distance and set up a strike, it's quick, it can hurt and get them to drop there hands...not meant to be a finisher. I like a rear front thrust kick for power if I want to do some damage with it...more committed but stronger. I like the push kick, (teep) for driving someone back and creating space, (what it's intended for.)

I don't really think one is better or worse. They are different tools for different jobs. A hammer is stronger than a screwdriver, but it won't do a screwdriver's job well.

I like the lead outside crescent, not so much the inside. A lot of people think they're useless and have no power, but that's because they don't work them. I helped a guy work crescents on the pads...he had no power at all with them; because he had never worked them with resistance. By the end of the session, he was getting some serious head rocking power with crescents. There's some guys who can get real KO power from an outside crescent, it's quick, hard to see coming and if you can hit the jaw it's dangerous. The draw back is it's such a close range kick. You got to be quick because your in punching, close to grappling range with it.

I'm glad we're starting to see more varied kicks in MMA. Jones and Machida really help with that...more guys are trying stuff they we're told was useless...because they're seeing it work. Still a lot of people are stuck on front kick, low roundhouse though...great kicks but so are all the others.

I'm real big on the cross kick and low side kick. Talk about hard to see coming, jar the leg than punch!

[Syn7]

or to the back of the head when you circle around the lead hand. If you can get a decent bridge on their lead jab and push them aside and circle around and back to the back of the head. Never see it coming.

There is a Capoeira school in my city that participates in MMA and they are using their capoeira to win in devastating fashion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0KfQE2-ZqA

I don't even wanna know what that feels like. Gotta be one of the strongest kicks tho. Better than spinning the other way IMO, as far as power is concerned anyways. As long as you can control the momentum when you miss so you don't get KO'd, it can totally work. Not that it will always work. But he's doing pretty good with it.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJTrXxsv2-4

[Kellen Bassette]

or to the back of the head when you circle around the lead hand. If you can get a decent bridge on their lead jab and push them aside and circle around and back to the back of the head. Never see it coming.

I always liked that concept but usually went for the undercut to the kidneys...either way, a free strike is always a beautiful thing..

[Kellen Bassette]

There is a Capoeira school in my city that participates in MMA and they are using their capoeira to win in devastating fashion.

It just goes to show that you can win with any styles, so long as your training hard and testing your self against resisting sparring partners; and have a solid defense against your opponents methods.

[Syn7]

I always liked that concept but usually went for the undercut to the kidneys...either way, a free strike is always a beautiful thing..

Ughh, liver and kidneys. I never want to feel that again. It's like your legs completely abandon you and you fall straight down like a building being demolished. Quite unlike the stiff board syndrome. Not that all KO's are stiff ones. We all remember Tank Abbott ragdolling that guy on the fence and he looked like a puppet. It was pretty disturbing to some. I studied that fall like a calculus textbook. The mechanics fascinate me.

It just goes to show that you can win with any styles, so long as your training hard and testing your self against resisting sparring partners; and have a solid defense against your opponents methods.

Word. And it doesn't hurt to bring something to the table that your opponent has never faced before. Where do you find high level Capoeira training partners that aren't just overhyped dancers? Seriously, and it was local so there are only a handful of those schools anyways.

[David Jamieson]

While there are thousands of martial artists, there are very few professional fighters and of all those there are very few that are champions and of all those there are only a handful that get paid at a level where they can actually make some bank with their skills. Plus, it's a sport that has very few athletes comparable to other sports.

The other 99.999% of all enthusiasts will only do it as a hobby or will trudge along in amateur standings and get no money or recognition ever.

You will never ever see a guy stay on top. ever.

The UFC has 359 fighters overall. The whole organization. Of those, maybe 10 percent hold a title of some sort and only the highest draw names will get any money out of their efforts.

For the rest of you, you're going to learn and get a workout. Don't expect much else. I don't see the big motivation to sport fight. It's ok when you're young, it's kind of weird when you're over 40 and feel a need to get into that because quite frankly, you're over the hill and aren't going to get very far.