Wing Chun and The root

[AdrianK]

Fajin uses the muscle tendons or body sinews to exert explosive force rather than mere arm strenght muscular power.

Thats funny, I wasn't aware I wasn't using my tendons in any of my strikes!

[taai gihk yahn]

Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu

Fajin uses the muscle tendons or body sinews to exert explosive force rather than mere arm strenght muscular power.

this is a statement that highlights the total misconception of how "mere" muscle power works;

first off: muscles are contractile, meaning that when they shorten, they create force; tendons are non-contractile, but elastic and can therefore store and release force; ligaments are also non-contractile, but are not involved in power generation, they are designed for protection of the joint at the end of normal physiological range;

the PROBLEM is that, according to TCM, the term "sinews" refers to ALL THREE - meaning that, TCM does not differentiate between these three very morphologically as well as functionally different types of connective tissue; so to make the above comment really makes no sense; especially because, without muscles, NOTHING is moving; furthermore, the idea that "muscle" power is somehow inferior is a conceit that probably has its roots in the literati scholar/warrior types in China who wanted to be able to have martial skill but not sully themselves by base training methods such as weight lifting (which TCMA had in spades)

so once and for all - if you are moving, you are using muscles; if you are generating force, you are using muscle (and tendons - because they are kind of, you know, ATTACHED TO EACH OTHER - hence the term "musculotendenous unit")

the real question is, HOW are you using the muscle force - is it such that you are creating tension by using agonists against antagonists simultaneously? or that you have excess facilitation of flexors and relative inhibition of extensors (very common)? or that your firing sequences are inefficient? or that you have a high hystersis ratio in the tendons? when people talk about "connection" in so-called "internal practice, they are describing a situation where the muscle function and the tendon function are optimal and working in concert with the breath, ground reaction force transfer (rooting) and coordinated timing in regards to managing the opponents incoming force (sticking. listening, etc.);

to deride muscle force as being somehow inferior is simply a sign of both ignorance as well as smugness that many so-called "internal" practitioners demonstrate, a holier-tan -thou attitude that they use to dismiss the inferior way "externalists" train, even though most externalists would beat the living crap out of them without missing a beat;

[taai gihk yahn]

Originally Posted by AdrianK

Thats funny, I wasn't aware I wasn't using my tendons in any of my strikes!

see? goes to show what you know!

[Hendrik]

Fa=Explode

Jin=Power

Fajin uses the muscle tendons or body sinews to exert explosive force rather than mere arm strenght muscular power.

Fajin well Its from Tai Chi wouldnt you agree?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxxebP0u31g ----------------





So what is the different between Lik and Jin?

Since you often mention FAJIN what is FAJIN in WCK?

What type of Jin WCK have?



are the following fajin? what is the different?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTUKhuouiRg



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fIuc...eature=related









IMHO: The Way Fajin issuing force is emitted by way of feet from ground to the legs to the waist up the back through the shoulders spiraling out of arms emitting from the fist. Thus you have emittance of force issuance. ----------


Can you do it?



how about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIJHA...eature=related

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn

this is a statement that highlights the total misconception of how "mere" muscle power works;

first off: muscles are contractile,.............. most externalists would beat the living crap out of them without missing a beat;

OK, how do you explain this with your theory above?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSyue-NAy6k&NR=1


so how do you Fa Jin and what is Jin?

[taai gihk yahn]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

OK, so how do you Fa Jin and what is Jin?

in a nutshell; coordinated function of awareness, breath, ground reaction force (rooting), muscle contraction and tendinous recoil; if done with a partner, it is timed appropriately based on what he "offers" you;

how do you do it?

[Hendrik]

IMHO, This doesnt do it. I could be wrong.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMrIj...eature=related

[Hendrik]

in a nutshell; coordinated function of awareness, breath, ground reaction force (rooting), muscle contraction and tendinous recoil; -------

To be real honest, In my experience, what you describe above is not different then the Kyokushin training and might be even not as practical.




how do you do it? -----


Depend, There is the Kyokushin, there is the white crane of fujian, there is Wing Chun's inch jin, there is Yee Chuan ..... lots of different way because they used different jin. IMHO.

[taai gihk yahn]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

IMHO, This doesnt do it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMrIj...eature=related

I agree; the way that he does "Swinging Heavenly Pivot" at 5:35 is completely incorrect

[taai gihk yahn]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

To be real honest, In my experience, what you describe above is not different then the Kyokushin training and might be even not as practical.

perhaps; although there's only really one way to tell for certain, of course...

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn

perhaps; although there's only really one way to tell for certain, of course...

No offend


I can be totally wrong. what do this old guy know. hahaha



What is your back ground?

I find your post in the internal art very interesting.

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn

I agree; the way that he does "Swinging Heavenly Pivot" at 5:35 is completely incorrect

IMHO, these stuffs are New age relaxation.

It doesnt cultivate Qi thus not to mention transport Qi.

[Hendrik]

Quote:
Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
then there is another level, that of "shen", or noumena - this is actually what was considered "true" internal by many sects, and involves practices such as "100 Days Opening";


even this supposedly "mystical" practice is really nothing more than working with the body and mind, the "end" result being that one achieves a state of awareness that allows for an ending to habitual responses, nothing more or less, which is the essence of Ch'an - awareness of suchness

.................I have been able to explain via a non-TCM perspective (that which I can't yet, well, I'm still working on it!) - which to me, simply validates it even more, as it demonstrates the universality of what it encompasses

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




interesting, could you please share


1, what is mind?

2, What is shen?

3, What is suchness?

4, is "a state of awareness" suchness?

5, How can one get to suchness from mind and body?

[Edmund]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

OK, how do you explain this with your theory above?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSyue-NAy6k&NR=1

Looks like a 90 year old guy trying to push over a 100 year old guy. I'd agree it can probably be done without much muscular force!

He almost managed it OR maybe a stiff breeze came along.

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by Edmund

maybe a stiff breeze came along.

it must be the breeze. hahaha