View Full Version : gene ching - original hung gar article

bean curd
04-20-2002, 11:15 PM
hello gene,

i have just read a article you write about with heading saying " original hung gar - the tangled roots of a powerful gung fu "

when i read i find at first rather abstract in that you go from name differance ( location and dialect ) to various hung gar other than hung gar kuen.

now i agree with you on " do not get stuck up on name hung gar " as you clearly say, many long years hung gar kuen be relaited to skills from wong fei hung sifu and family skills.

what i find interesting is how article change ( well to me anyway ) that you write apologetic for hay say fu skill.

you write that records show original hung gar from chi sim sin si, is short/defensive/high ma etc, but then when go to canton see issues and adjust hung kuen to other skills.

then you bring in ha say fu and bring attention to skills of hasayfu and how they met criteria and that canton hung gar does not, and that maybe hasayfu is older, eventually at end of article you bring in cloud and say what does it matter who come first, as mist covers history.

i ask why you write in this fashion or have i taken hidden meaning of article that not there ??

to me question always been " when did hung gar kuen become what it is ?? "

hung gar of hung hei gun come from chi sim, but at time ma was high and also in fashion of skill of yee gee kim yeung ma, sei ping ma arrive to hung gar kuen for skill requirments not till slightly later, however luk ah choy play skill of yee gee kim yeung ma also.

question also need to be asked what is faht, ging and faht ging of hung gar kuen that make it what it is. i find that what you write does not cover this, yet your implication of ha say fu being the older and maybe more closer to original of chi sim out of context or inaccurate due to complications of matters concerning what is hung gar originally.

please do not take this as attack from me, also maybe i read to much into and your article not draw attention to such depth which i state, however implication on others who not understand can cause confusion and to use to substatiate hasayfu i find concerning and not required.

goi gin

04-23-2002, 10:48 AM
Hi Bean Curd,
There's one point about that article worth mentioning - it was written at a time when there were some big feuds brewing in U.S. Hung Gar. Part of the intention of that article was to diffuse some of those feuds. It was reprinted in a book published by CFW plus I hear it's also online. You know, they never even told me they were doing that, much less compensated me for it.

Anyway, on to your question. A lot of people claim to have the "original" style with little evidence beyond hearsay. The history of Ha Say Fu is pretty cloudy, especially from Sifu Wing Lam's perspective. He never really learned the history of it, just the method. But according to a rather sparse legend, Hung Gar was originally a more compact style like Wing Chun that expanded after Wong Fei Hung and Gee Sim visited Canton. Ha Say Fu fits this description. But the Hung name can be connected to many very different styles (which was my point in the introduction) so who's to say really what happened. It may not be at all linked to 'Canton' Hung Gar (which was a term I coined specifically for the article.) It's all just postulation, a possible back story to Hung Gar. I wouldn't put too much stake in it all, since it is impossible to validate either which way.

bean curd
04-26-2002, 04:39 AM

thank for reply. what you write clear up things.

one more question if you not mind.

hasayfu how does it play sup yee kiu sau faht ??

04-26-2002, 09:32 AM
I don't really know. I worked on all the Hasayfu videos that Wing Lam made and I don't remember seeing a kiu sau at all. But I maybe mistaken on this. I never studied hasayfu and only dabbled in hung, so I really wouldn't be the one to ask. I would defer this question to one of my martial brothers one the southern forum. Maybe post it there.

I will say that to me Hasayfu is very different than what most people view as a hung school. The only real overlap is some of the weapons and the 5 animals, but the way it generates power is completely different. That's what I was trying to set up in the beginning of the article with the comparison of different styles the bear the name hung. There might be no connection whatsoever.