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jeizen
03-11-2000, 03:02 AM
I am only familiar with japanese fighting arts. I was also told that jiu jitsu is a complete art. Where I live now shotokan rules, meaning that there are mainly shotokan schools here. Their methods of training are rigid and in my opinion do not cater for real life fighting. How do you guys train? I would like to know what you guys do to reach the final stage of getting techniques subconsciously, you know fighting without thinking consciously.

Brat
03-11-2000, 09:06 AM
First of all, Jiu Jitsu is not a complete fighting art-no art is. At what level in Shotokan are you? I've found that in the Korean and Japanese styles, that you don't learn a lot of practical combat until you reach about the third belt level from white. I'm generalizing of course, but I have found it to be true in most of the styles Ive been in contact with. I'm just a beginner in Kung Fu, but I have 15 years experience in other martial arts. About the best advice that I can give you is that if Shotokan is the only style taught in your area, then youd probably best stick with that. You will learn a whole lot of valuable techniques, and when you are advanced enough you can debate the practicality of what you've been taught. Also you will get the chance to spar with other people. "Hands on" is crucial to learning how to fight. And make friends with people who practice other styles and spar with them. This is about the best way to gain experience I know of.

jeizen
03-12-2000, 04:22 AM
Thanks Brat. I am not a member of shotokan. I used to be but dropped out at white belt. A bit pre maturely ,maybe. Where I used to train the sensei had not had any grading sessions for the year that I was there.

There are frequent martial arts tournaments down here. I usually go when I can and leave disappointed as usual. No matter what school they come from the results are the same. In the ring, if the participants were dressed in casual clothes it would look like a street fight between drunks. All the forms and rigidity which is practised, absolutely nothing shows its self. The only good technique you might find is the reverse punch.

This is why I got interested in kung fu. The main influence JET LI ofcourse. I know that learning from a book is not going to be very effective but I sure am going to try.

In the fights one cannot tell a white belt from a black.

How is your training structured?

Brat
03-12-2000, 08:39 AM
Jeizen, I can surely identify with you. I started out in Tae Kwon Do, but dropped out as a blue belt because I could not see the practicality of the training. I too questioned the validity of practicing forms rigidly one way in then getting into the ring and fighting another. I am a 2nd Dan in Judo, a Bronze Glove in Savate, and am a former Golden Gloves boxer. I am currentluy taking Pencak Silat lessons 2 nights a week, and I am working on my own in Xing-I kung fu from manuals and video tapes. I am mainly interested in Xing-I because I want to explore a different level or at least perspective of martial arts training. Judo, Savate, boxing, and even Silat, are very mechanical styles. Xing-I is more of an "internal" style , dealing with chi, which is something that is totally alien to me.

As to the guys at the Shotokan Dojo, I wouldn't pass judgement on them too quickly. True, it could be a "strip mall ninja" type place, where you couldn't learn very much at all.This being because the head instructor is more interested in squeezing cash out of his students than actually teaching anything useful. I've known too many individuals who matched that description in my 15 years in the arts. But I also have seen a great many fights(PKA) that have been picture perfectly coreographed and beautiful to behold, but whose participants couldn't fight their way out of a styrafoam cooler if they had to. Trust me, the funnest fights in Savate occur between the greenhorns(low level, "non gloved" guys.) they will be throwing high flying kicks all over the place. But if you watch two experienced Savateurs in the ring, its pretty boring. Thats because both guys are skilled to a very high degree and it is more of a strategic battle than anything. You wont see a lot of exhibitionist moves because they're just too risky.

What your dojo might be training in is reality fighting. This is a by-product of the Ultimate Fighting Championships. Like it or not, a real life encounter will much more represent the most awfull, ugly, uncoordinated brawls than it will the most expertly choreographed fighting sequences practised in the dojo. This is in part due to the fact that the guy in the dojo isn't offering up the resistance that a street thug would. I think that the UFC has been both positive and negative for the martial arts in general. I believe that it was a crucially instrumental tool by which many martial artists used, and are still using to evaluate their own effectiveness.

Like I said, I'm currently studying Xing-I on my own and if you would like to discuss the matter privately wiht me my e-mail address is jeffwil@earthlink.net . It would help me in evaluating your position from my own experience if I knew exactly what your goals are. I too am in an awkward position in training and I would be taking Xing-I lessons from a qualified instructor if I could. Throughout my carrer I have been in over 300 tournament fights with practitioners from every major school of combat that exists. Likewise I have been exposed to an infinite amount of training methods from friends in other arts. I offer my advice and help to you as best I can.

Brat

mantis108
04-11-2000, 04:11 AM
First and foremost, I don't mean to critize, and I respect all martial arts. One point is very important many schools today goes for martial sports rather than martial arts. The different is that sports are linear and the focus is narrow; whereas, arts have more plateaus and unlimiting. Ask yourself this question: is it "entertainment" or "enlightenment" that you want? I know quite a few people who have experience like yours. It is a frequent issue among practictioners. Traditional purpose of Kung Fu is to educate a human being through combat arts. To provide a tool for the practictioners to see the reality. It's about the dynamic balance between peace and violence. Definitely not for seeking glory by exhibiting super-human power. The life and career of an athelet are very short lived. You are only good if you are a winner; however, there can only be one winner. What happen to those who try but can never be a winner? Most of the time, they drop out after some soul searching. It appears to me that you might have reached such an impass. There are more to the "real" martial arts than series of movements and exercises. If you need further help regarding Kung Fu, please feel free to contact me. I have my e-mail address in my profile file.

Mantis108