PDA

View Full Version : white eyebrow: does it have to be so deadly?



curious
06-27-2000, 03:39 AM
I am impressed with the effectiveness of white Eyebrow, but it seems like all of the moves are intended to kill or cripple. Is there more to this art than that?

qy
06-27-2000, 05:12 AM
Nope.

mantis108
06-27-2000, 05:18 AM
Hi curious,

The anwser is simply yes. There is a less distructive way to do Bak Mei. But than again, will you be getting your money's worth?

Students in the begining would be taught the less destructive version. For example in Jik bo (Straight Steps), the finger jab can be use as an intercepting move, and the cross that follows will be a simlpe reverse punch instead of a pheonix-eye (the machanics of that is different from a reverse punch). IMHO, it can be done but it feels like it's empty inside.

Hope this anwsered your question.

Peace to all

Mantis108

P.S. Bak Mei is Kung Fu not martial sports please keep that in mind. You are wasting your time if you try to understand it from that angle.

------------------
Contraria Sunt Complementa

uki
01-28-2010, 04:43 AM
I am impressed with the effectiveness of white Eyebrow, but it seems like all of the moves are intended to kill or cripple. yep.

Is there more to this art than that?nope.

kfson
01-28-2010, 06:17 AM
Wow, I really like this Bak Mei.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX0Xx6OnQ-g

Who are the top practitioners in the U.S.?

B-Rad
01-28-2010, 06:38 AM
http://www.sw-fans.net/imagegallery/data/502/threadnecro.jpg

hskwarrior
01-28-2010, 06:50 AM
its a good system, but in my experience, people that are CLF students have taken this style and all have mentioned how they wanted to go back to CLF.

kfson
01-28-2010, 06:53 AM
its a good system, but in my experience, people that are CLF students have taken this style and all have mentioned how they wanted to go back to CLF.

Why is that?

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 06:58 AM
Styles and systems aren't deadly, people are.

kfson
01-28-2010, 06:59 AM
http://www.sw-fans.net/imagegallery/data/502/threadnecro.jpg................................... ...................


...................indeed.

hskwarrior
01-28-2010, 07:04 AM
Why is that?

from what they've told me they preferred the fighting method of CLF after learning bak Mei.

uki
01-28-2010, 07:36 AM
from what they've told me they preferred the fighting method of CLF after learning bak Mei.yeah because you can actually spar in CLF as opposed to bak mei where you and your opponent are more likely to be maimed or killed. :)



Styles and systems aren't deadly, people are.which explains the exodus from bak mei back to CLF... some people just don't have it in them to study purely maiming and killing folks. :p

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 07:50 AM
which explains the exodus from bak mei back to CLF... some people just don't have it in them to study purely maiming and killing folks.

Nah, it has zero to do with the system.
Sure a system can pick up a rep because of a certain practitioner or two, but that has to do with them and not the system per say.

hskwarrior
01-28-2010, 07:56 AM
yeah because you can actually spar in CLF as opposed to bak mei where you and your opponent are more likely to be maimed or killed.

i know you can't be serious!!!!!!

My Fu Jow will rip your flesh from your bones.....those who've met me personally know i know how to use a proper tiger claw. secondly, it's clear you don't understand the inner workings of CLF. I won't explain that here.

so, you say a bak mei student would maim or kill their opponents. now that leads me to this question......"HOW MANY STUDENTS HAVE BEEN KILLED OR MAIMED IN A BAK MEI CLASS OR TRAINING SESSION?"


which explains the exodus from bak mei back to CLF... some people just don't have it in them to study purely maiming and killing folks.

That's the most ridiculous statement i've ever heard in my gung fu career.

Kpower
01-28-2010, 08:09 AM
I know I'm just a noob and all but it seems like it IS the system. The goal of the system has to be taken into account. A system like wrestling aims at submission whereas some systems aim at vital points striking, destroying joints and gouging eyes and whatnot. I know that wrestlers can be potentially deadly and they can choke you out and kill you but other systems seem more direct. If I have been training and conditioning my fingers to gouge out eyeballs and my oponent is training to pin me then I would say that my art is more "deadly" because the intent is different.

TAO YIN
01-28-2010, 08:11 AM
I have never been killed or maimed in a Bak Mei training class. People kill, not arts. It's Intent! AIIIIIIIIIIYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the best we can get going on here. The reputation of Bak Mei yadda yadda...The reputation of CLC yadda yadda.

It contains practical methods, like most MARTIAL arts...........Such as in the 9 step push........Yeah that's right; don't forget about the tech 9 step...

After you have conditioned your hand and trained, PIERCE FINGERS THROUGH THEIR EYE!

After you have conditioned your hand and trained, PHOENIX THROUGH THEIR HEART!

After you have conditioned your hand and trained, CLAW FLESH, PULL CLOSE, BITE NECK (No wait, that is for a push into an oncoming bus, after they bounce of the bus, THEN you can bite the neck...) LOLOLOL!

:D

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 08:14 AM
I know I'm just a noob and all but it seems like it IS the system. The goal of the system has to be taken into account. A system like wrestling aims at submission whereas some systems aim at vital points striking, destroying joints and gouging eyes and whatnot. I know that wrestlers can be potentially deadly and they can choke you out and kill you but other systems seem more direct. If I have been training and conditioning my fingers to gouge out eyeballs and my oponent is training to pin me then I would say that my art is more "deadly" because the intent is different.

Intent has nothing to do with the system and everything to do with the practioner.
There are deadly Taiji people I know and taiji is hardly "the deadly".

You are right about one thing, you are a noob, no offense.
In the grappling arts ( and I am NOT a grappler) you are taught to:
Break arms and joints, to dislocate the neck and kill by choking and strangulation, you are taught to incapcitate by dropping people on their heads and in ways that can cripple them.
To cripple them by breaking elbows, dislocationg shoulder and ankles and knees, by crushing their larynx and much more.
Sounds pretty deadly too, no?
Much more than "poaking a finger in someone's eye".

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 08:15 AM
I have never been killed or maimed in a Bak Mei training class. People kill, not arts. It's Intent! AIIIIIIIIIIYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the best we can get going on here. The reputation of Bak Mei yadda yadda...The reputation of CLC yadda yadda.

It contains practical methods, like most MARTIAL arts...........Such as in the 9 step push........Yeah that's right; don't forget about the tech 9 step...

After you have conditioned your hand and trained, PIERCE FINGERS THROUGH THEIR EYE!

After you have conditioned your hand and trained, PHOENIX THROUGH THEIR HEART!

After you have conditioned your hand and trained, CLAW FLESH, PULL CLOSE, BITE NECK (No wait, that is for a push into an oncoming bus, after they bounce of the bus, THEN you can bite the neck...) LOLOLOL!

:D

Don't forget the steel toe kick to the prostate !!

TenTigers
01-28-2010, 08:18 AM
I've seen many Bak Mei schools, and have studied a little bit (Jik Bo, Sup Ji Kuen, Gow Bo Toi, Sup Bot Moor Jow)and I have seen it played very basic, static and hard, and also softer with greater emphasis on coiling power, which is much harder to learn and apply, and takes a great deal of time and patience.
This is why there are so few Bak Mei P'ai people out there.
It is also not a "pretty" style.
CLF on the other hand is much more dynamic, the techniques are easier to apply, and you can fight at an earlier level. CLF has much greater "mass appeal,"
which isn't to say one is better than the other, just how students think and feel, and may develop personal preferences.
Both styles are brutally effective, and have withstood the test of time and blood.

uki
01-28-2010, 08:29 AM
i know you can't be serious!!!!!!:)


My Fu Jow will rip your flesh from your bones.....those who've met me personally know i know how to use a proper tiger claw. are you implying others do not? do you have some mystical knowledge that no other tiger can possibly aquire??

secondly, it's clear you don't understand the inner workings of CLF. I won't explain that here.perhaps not by proper definitions...


so, you say a bak mei student would maim or kill their opponents. if it is done with the intention of why it was created yes... opponents would die.


now that leads me to this question......"HOW MANY STUDENTS HAVE BEEN KILLED OR MAIMED IN A BAK MEI CLASS OR TRAINING SESSION?"i dunno?? how many?? are we talking this generation or previous ones?? which continent? province?? i am sure the answers are out there somewhere.


That's the most ridiculous statement i've ever heard in my gung fu career.taking tiger and trying to domesticate it is also pretty ridiculous. :D

TAO YIN
01-28-2010, 08:32 AM
Steel Toed Prostate Kick with those piercing daggers is a little dangerous to train a lot. Had an incident years back where a student lost his eye in a two man form. LMAAAAAAAAO! Ch-ch-ch, ha, ch ha..........Jason VOORHEES, 4th generation disciple of BAAAAAAAAAAAAK MEEEEEEEEEEEI, undefeated chess master.

Actually, there is a groovy kick in the tech 9 step. As you go to do the reverse right palm claw to fist you switch balance to the front leg, right leg that is...Anyways that left hidden kick underneath there is pretty cool, and obviously powerful against trees. I have never tried it out in a match though.:eek:

TenTigers
01-28-2010, 08:36 AM
i know you can't be serious!!!!!!

My Fu Jow will rip your flesh from your bones.....those who've met me personally know i know how to use a proper tiger claw. secondly, it's clear you don't understand the inner workings of CLF. I won't explain that here.

so, you say a bak mei student would maim or kill their opponents. now that leads me to this question......"HOW MANY STUDENTS HAVE BEEN KILLED OR MAIMED IN A BAK MEI CLASS OR TRAINING SESSION?"



That's the most ridiculous statement i've ever heard in my gung fu career.

"with my right foot, I can knock out that knife.
with my left, I can break your nose.
With this hand, I can pokeout your eyes.
With this, I can break your neck.
Take a good look at my face. I'm an Oriental. Hssss!"
-"They Call Me Bruce"

for some reason, I can't post videos..pc is fuked, but go to youtube and punch in They Call Me Bruce-this scene is hysterical.("Give that lady back her purse!")

uki
01-28-2010, 08:37 AM
i sense alot of tension in this thread...

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 08:43 AM
The real deadly:
"I am gonna take my right foot and kick you on the right side of your face and you know what?
There is not a **** thing you can do about it".

kfson
01-28-2010, 08:48 AM
The real deadly:
"I am gonna take my right foot and kick you on the right side of your face and you know what?
There is not a **** thing you can do about it".

I will use uplifting force at your exposed hamstring before the kick lands. Back, let me introduce you to the hard ground.;)

TAO YIN
01-28-2010, 08:57 AM
Uki,

Honestly, I just don't think that many people train Bak Mei that way, that much. I hope that I am wrong though. For example, do you know that many people who truly train phoenix cracking bamboo for kol la? Iron Broom?

Kpower
01-28-2010, 09:19 AM
Intent has nothing to do with the system and everything to do with the practioner.
There are deadly Taiji people I know and taiji is hardly "the deadly".

You are right about one thing, you are a noob, no offense.
In the grappling arts ( and I am NOT a grappler) you are taught to:
Break arms and joints, to dislocate the neck and kill by choking and strangulation, you are taught to incapcitate by dropping people on their heads and in ways that can cripple them.
To cripple them by breaking elbows, dislocationg shoulder and ankles and knees, by crushing their larynx and much more.
Sounds pretty deadly too, no?
Much more than "poaking a finger in someone's eye".

I actually said gouging eyes which implies forcing the eyes from the socket by jamming your fingers behind them. It was just an off hand example not meant to be taken too literally.

I understand that many grappling arts teach joint locking and that it would be relatively easy to destroy limbs and joints that way. I also understand that the same methods used to choke someone out can be used to crush the larynx or kill.

There are different methods of accomplishing these things though and one could argue that kung fu methods are more direct. Boxers can kill people too but they are also condidtioned by the rules of the sport they are training to compete in. In a boxing class you are not taught specifically how to kill. You are trained not to hit certain areas that can lead to serious injuries like the back of the head. Boxing is more of a war of attrition that could lead to death whereas other systems train specific techniques to kill, more of a one shot one kill type mentallity. I'm not trashing boxing, I enjoy it, but it is a system that trains for sport.

Just like a target shooter vs. a sniper. One is training to shoot at targets and the other is training to kill people.

If the systems don't matter and the techniques don't matter then what is the point in training in the first place?

kfson
01-28-2010, 09:30 AM
I actually said gouging eyes which implies forcing the eyes from the socket by jamming your fingers behind them. It was just an off hand example not meant to be taken too literally.

I understand that many grappling arts teach joint locking and that it would be relatively easy to destroy limbs and joints that way. I also understand that the same methods used to choke someone out can be used to crush the larynx or kill.

There are different methods of accomplishing these things though and one could argue that kung fu methods are more direct. Boxers can kill people too but they are also condidtioned by the rules of the sport they are training to compete in. In a boxing class you are not taught specifically how to kill. You are trained not to hit certain areas that can lead to serious injuries like the back of the head. Boxing is more of a war of attrition that could lead to death whereas other systems train specific techniques to kill, more of a one shot one kill type mentallity. I'm not trashing boxing, I enjoy it, but it is a system that trains for sport.

Just like a target shooter vs. a sniper. One is training to shoot at targets and the other is training to kill people.

If the systems don't matter and the techniques don't matter then what is the point in training in the first place?

Wouldn't it be beneficial to have one punch-one knock down... unless you're a Cassius Clay... but that was entertainment.

uki
01-28-2010, 09:33 AM
Honestly, I just don't think that many people train Bak Mei that way, that much. I hope that I am wrong though. the lesson from bak mei is truly about focusing intention of the most dispicable kinds...

For example, do you know that many people who truly train phoenix cracking bamboo for kol la? Iron Broom?i can't say i do... but again, here is the concept of focused intention... the system was devolped by an individual of great strength already, he merely fueled focus into what he was capable of and put it into practice... the concepts of this system are profoundly simple - amazing what abit of ill-concieved individuality can do to the martial arts world.

how many teachers are teaching watered down methods for the sake of civility, ethics, and morals?? lack of intention is the plague of these so-called "career martial artists"... lol

i am glad i caught frost looking at this thread earlier... good suff!! :p

TAO YIN
01-28-2010, 09:39 AM
:D

Good post Uki.

kfson
01-28-2010, 09:40 AM
the lesson from bak mei is truly about focusing intention of the most dispicable kinds...
i can't say i do... but again, here is the concept of focused intention... the system was devolped by an individual of great strength already, he merely fueled focus into what he was capable of and put it into practice... the concepts of this system are profoundly simple - amazing what abit of ill-concieved individuality can do to the martial arts world.

how many teachers are teaching watered down methods for the sake of civility, ethics, and morals?? lack of intention is the plague of these so-called "career martial artists"... lol

i am glad i caught frost looking at this thread earlier... good suff!! :p

All I know about this style is a couple internet videos and internet encyclopedia.

Please explain "intention of the most despicable kinds...".

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 09:42 AM
I actually said gouging eyes which implies forcing the eyes from the socket by jamming your fingers behind them. It was just an off hand example not meant to be taken too literally.

I understand that many grappling arts teach joint locking and that it would be relatively easy to destroy limbs and joints that way. I also understand that the same methods used to choke someone out can be used to crush the larynx or kill.

There are different methods of accomplishing these things though and one could argue that kung fu methods are more direct. Boxers can kill people too but they are also condidtioned by the rules of the sport they are training to compete in. In a boxing class you are not taught specifically how to kill. You are trained not to hit certain areas that can lead to serious injuries like the back of the head. Boxing is more of a war of attrition that could lead to death whereas other systems train specific techniques to kill, more of a one shot one kill type mentallity. I'm not trashing boxing, I enjoy it, but it is a system that trains for sport.

Just like a target shooter vs. a sniper. One is training to shoot at targets and the other is training to kill people.

If the systems don't matter and the techniques don't matter then what is the point in training in the first place?


One shot, one kill mentality was something carried over from armed combat into unarmed and it is applicable to "intent" and not to any system or technique.
The skill set for a target shooter and a sniper is bacially the same, I would know, I was a sniper.
The intent is different and that is something that is "looked for" and not something that sniper school cultivates per say.

TAO YIN
01-28-2010, 09:46 AM
So How does Bak Mei, or any art, train intent? Better said, how do you train intent?:)

TenTigers
01-28-2010, 09:47 AM
The intent is different and that is something that is "looked for" and not something that sniper school cultivates per say.
unless you're someone like me, who has an utter disdain and hatred for paper sillouette targets. They must all die.

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 09:49 AM
unless you're someone like me, who has an utter disdain and hatred for paper sillouette targets. They must all die.

semper fi !!

uki
01-28-2010, 09:50 AM
Please explain "intention of the most despicable kinds...".the system revolves around striking areas that kill or maim... merdian and accupuncture points, eyes, throat, etc, with the sole intention of destroying the target and incapacitating the opponent... fueled and driven for vegenence was this system developed. :)

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 09:50 AM
So How does Bak Mei, or any art, train intent? Better said, how do you train intent?:)

Some systems cultivate through the "reptile brain", certain positions ( "c" back) are suppose to activate those most primal of instincts.
The very nature of the INTENT behind the moves is suppose to create this "killer instinct" also, and there is more.

uki
01-28-2010, 09:52 AM
unless you're someone like me, who has an utter disdain and hatred for paper sillouette targets. They must all die.i like poking card board boxes...

kfson
01-28-2010, 09:55 AM
the system revolves around striking areas that kill or maim... merdian and accupuncture points, eyes, throat, etc, with the sole intention of destroying the target and incapacitating the opponent... fueled and driven for vegenence was this system developed. :)

Detractors could say the same for Xing Yi, then.

uki
01-28-2010, 09:57 AM
Detractors could say the same for Xing Yi, then.aye... the weave is intricately simple...

TAO YIN
01-28-2010, 10:01 AM
HHBB, the c back, is good for opening the yang and closing the yin to develop some of the iron body, some of the FCTT, and some of the cotton body, but it has a bad tendency to cause to much yang energy in the hands...

Does an olympic gymnast who does iron cross have, intent?

:cool:

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 10:08 AM
Does an olympic gymnast who does iron cross have, intent?

Yes, the intent of trying not to feel pain !!

Yum Cha
01-28-2010, 10:19 AM
Well, nobody really missed the mark about Pak Mei. Sh1t, maybe not so secret afterall....LOL

It starts slow, benign. A lot of fundamentals, unexplained moves, boring, ugly, mundane. People wanting flash and fancy just wander away, maybe by design? ;)

Then you learn that this or that has another application, you explore, you discover. Many things have multiple interpretations, one is gentle, the other deadly. Just depends how you hold the hand, and for example, if you target the ear, or the bone behind it...

Our teaching is to not use 4 moves when 3 will do, and not to use 3 when 2 will do, and not to use 2 when 1 will do.

Breaking bones is a fast way to stop a fight. Raking eyes and attacking other weak points is a good way to get the opening to break bones. That's just the way it works, we're sprinters, not long distance runners.

The system takes advantage of short power (faat ging) and combinations that anticipate the reaction and key on what position the opponent will move to, not necessarily where he is, thus the reputation for being so fast.

We practice with full power, intent and exertion, thus the natural development of deliverable power.

There is no ultimate system, kung fu travels with the man, and it takes a long time to learn Pak Mei, maybe 10 years to become proficient, not a lot of men get there.

But yes, you come across a good Pak Mei guy, he will try to f**K you up, that's what we do. Don't expect a warning shot, we don't believe in the kinder gentler side of martial morality. I think its the Daoist side, some live, some die, its all part of the balance. None of my boys have ever left a street opponent standing.

The best American practitioners are probably from the Chan Dor line, and you'll not ever find it. There is a lot of Futsan Pak Mei, which, with few exceptions, does not talk to my 24 years of training in the art. I like the look of Zhong Luo in San Fran, but he's getting into MMA, and that says something to me as well. I met a female student of Man Kwong Fong, at my level, and she had the goods. There are probably less than 20 masters alive and teaching worldwide.

HSK...
My Sifu, who's grandfather was an indoor student of Chen Yong Fa's grandfather, and who to this day is a friend of the family, has very high regard for and understanding of CLF.

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 10:32 AM
Well, nobody really missed the mark about Pak Mei. Sh1t, maybe not so secret afterall....LOL

It starts slow, benign. A lot of fundamentals, unexplained moves, boring, ugly, mundane. People wanting flash and fancy just wander away, maybe by design? ;)

Then you learn that this or that has another application, you explore, you discover. Many things have multiple interpretations, one is gentle, the other deadly. Just depends how you hold the hand, and for example, if you target the ear, or the bone behind it...

Our teaching is to not use 4 moves when 3 will do, and not to use 3 when 2 will do, and not to use 2 when 1 will do.

Breaking bones is a fast way to stop a fight. Raking eyes and attacking other weak points is a good way to get the opening to break bones. That's just the way it works, we're sprinters, not long distance runners.

The system takes advantage of short power (faat ging) and combinations that anticipate the reaction and key on what position the opponent will move to, not necessarily where he is, thus the reputation for being so fast.

We practice with full power, intent and exertion, thus the natural development of deliverable power.

There is no ultimate system, kung fu travels with the man, and it takes a long time to learn Pak Mei, maybe 10 years to become proficient, not a lot of men get there.

But yes, you come across a good Pak Mei guy, he will try to f**K you up, that's what we do. Don't expect a warning shot, we don't believe in the kinder gentler side of martial morality. I think its the Daoist side, some live, some die, its all part of the balance. None of my boys have ever left a street opponent standing.

The best American practitioners are probably from the Chan Dor line, and you'll not ever find it. There is a lot of Futsan Pak Mei, which, with few exceptions, does not talk to my 24 years of training in the art. I like the look of Zhong Luo in San Fran, but he's getting into MMA, and that says something to me as well. I met a female student of Man Kwong Fong, at my level, and she had the goods. There are probably less than 20 masters alive and teaching worldwide.

HSK...
My Sifu, who's grandfather was an indoor student of Chen Yong Fa's grandfather, and who to this day is a friend of the family, has very high regard for and understanding of CLF.

Well said,
I disagree about the 10 year thing though.

Yum Cha
01-28-2010, 10:49 AM
Well said,
I disagree about the 10 year thing though.

Yea, Sifu lived with SiGung for 5 years, but that was a live in training, working security at night in the club business thing. We are slow, fair enough. But thorough :D

There is one thing to learn some moves, another to learn the system. A well trained martial artist can get the Pak Mei touch quicker, and many have. It is transferable that way.

It also starts as external hard style, and evolves into an internal soft style.

I think its fair to compare it to SPM, but SPM develops the touch by dynamic tension from what little I have seen, we use another path.

kfson
01-28-2010, 10:59 AM
The best American practitioners are probably from the Chan Dor line, and you'll not ever find it. There is a lot of Futsan Pak Mei, which, with few exceptions, does not talk to my 24 years of training in the art. I like the look of Zhong Luo in San Fran, but he's getting into MMA, and that says something to me as well. I met a female student of Man Kwong Fong, at my level, and she had the goods. There are probably less than 20 masters alive and teaching worldwide.



Would you list the top U.S. practitioners, or did you?

Yum Cha
01-28-2010, 11:00 AM
Would you list the top U.S. practitioners, or did you?

What I said is as politically volatile as I'm willing to get, bro. Also, I just like to speak about what I have seen, not what other people say.

Of course, being stateside, I'm certainly the best stateside at the moment.....at least that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. LOL

hskwarrior
01-28-2010, 11:01 AM
uki


the system revolves around striking areas that kill or maim... merdian and accupuncture points, eyes, throat, etc, with the sole intention of destroying the target and incapacitating the opponent... fueled and driven for vegenence was this system developed.

oh i'm sorry.....i could have sworn CLF did that....but i can see i'm wrong.....:rolleyes:

so during your training, how many people have you actually maimed or killed?

How do you actually know your stuff is sooo deadly when you face a non willing opponent who wants to hurt you as much as you think u will hurt him?

kfson
01-28-2010, 11:04 AM
Watch out!
http://dragonhousemma.com/fight-team/

Kpower
01-28-2010, 11:06 AM
Who is teaching this art? and where?

Yum Cha
01-28-2010, 11:08 AM
uki



oh i'm sorry.....i could have sworn CLF did that....but i can see i'm wrong.....:rolleyes:

so during your training, how many people have you actually maimed or killed?

How do you actually know your stuff is sooo deadly when you face a non willing opponent who wants to hurt you as much as you think u will hurt him?


Personally I've been killed 11 times, and lost 4 eyes. But, hey, you got to pay your dues....

kfson
01-28-2010, 11:08 AM
What I said is as politically volatile as I'm willing to get, bro. Also, I just like to speak about what I have seen, not what other people say.

Of course, being stateside, I'm certainly the best stateside at the moment.....at least that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. LOL

I guess one is either from the NYC or the San Fran crew.

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 11:09 AM
Yea, Sifu lived with SiGung for 5 years, but that was a live in training, working security at night in the club business thing. We are slow, fair enough. But thorough :D

There is one thing to learn some moves, another to learn the system. A well trained martial artist can get the Pak Mei touch quicker, and many have. It is transferable that way.

It also starts as external hard style, and evolves into an internal soft style.

I think its fair to compare it to SPM, but SPM develops the touch by dynamic tension from what little I have seen, we use another path.

All of the southern hand share much in common and much that they don't share.
One southern hands can transfer pretty well to another.
To me a system is "known" when one can apply it and apply it well in a fight.
It make take years to perfect it, that is a given, but if it takes years to be able to use it, then a system like that is in ferior to one that can be used in less time.
Its only logical.

hskwarrior
01-28-2010, 11:10 AM
Personally I've been killed 11 times, and lost 4 eyes. But, hey, you got to pay your dues....

oh i got you beat....ive been killed 21 times now....but only lost one eye. paying dues sucks!!! lol

Yum Cha
01-28-2010, 11:10 AM
Watch out!
http://dragonhousemma.com/fight-team/

Like I said, I like the looks of Sifu Luo, but he's going MMA, and that says something to me as well.

kfson
01-28-2010, 11:12 AM
Like I said, I like the looks of Sifu Luo, but he's going MMA, and that says something to me as well.

Are you Hispanic from NYC, pardon my forwardness.

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 11:13 AM
Like I said, I like the looks of Sifu Luo, but he's going MMA, and that says something to me as well.

Don't assume why people do things.

Yum Cha
01-28-2010, 11:14 AM
All of the southern hand share much in common and much that they don't share.
One southern hands can transfer pretty well to another.
To me a system is "known" when one can apply it and apply it well in a fight.
It make take years to perfect it, that is a given, but if it takes years to be able to use it, then a system like that is in ferior to one that can be used in less time.
Its only logical.

Well, perhaps I have a more self indulgent perspective on what an art has to offer. I acknowledge the efficiency argument, and it is right for most people.

As we already have agreed, using it is sometimes easier than perfecting the style to the point where you can pass it on.

I think of it as the gift that keeps on giving...

Yum Cha
01-28-2010, 11:18 AM
Don't assume why people do things.

I said it says something, not what it says....:D So, what do you assume I'm getting at? :D:D

Yum Cha
01-28-2010, 11:19 AM
Are you Hispanic from NYC, pardon my forwardness.

No, I'm a Yank from Sydney, Australia.

Yum Cha
01-28-2010, 11:20 AM
Who is teaching this art? and where?

www.who teaches pak mei. com

kfson
01-28-2010, 11:21 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97Gr5ae2EEI&NR=1

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 11:24 AM
Well, perhaps I have a more self indulgent perspective on what an art has to offer. I acknowledge the efficiency argument, and it is right for most people.

As we already have agreed, using it is sometimes easier than perfecting the style to the point where you can pass it on.

I think of it as the gift that keeps on giving...

I think that when we say that it takes 10 years ( or whatever) to be proficient in a system that it is elluding that it takes 10 years to be able to use it to save our bacon.
I like to be more clear on things, I'm silly that way :D

One can spend a lifetime in any ONE system and still have much to learn.

On his death bead, Funakoshi performed an inner forearm block, he then said to those there, " I think I am finally figuring this out".

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 11:25 AM
I said it says something, not what it says....:D So, what do you assume I'm getting at? :D:D

Lets not go there !
LOL !

uki
01-28-2010, 11:53 AM
oh i'm sorry.....i could have sworn CLF did that....but i can see i'm wrong.....don't most styles and systems revolve around this?? why do you feel offended to seem that your system has been left out? obviously bak mei is a touchy subject to some folks.


so during your training, how many people have you actually maimed or killed?how many people do you need to shoot with a gun before you know you can?? flawed questional comparison to the subject here pal... i don't have to stick my fingers in your eye to know i can do it. why is this concept so difficult to grasp?? is it like too easy or something... really, i am knocking my head sometimes. :)


How do you actually know your stuff is sooo deadly when you face a non willing opponent who wants to hurt you as much as you think u will hurt him?first the non willing opponent has to attack me to find out...

those skilled in the art of war let the enemy come to the battlefield, rather than be brought there by him.

usually if a man attacks out of blind rage, his attack has failed already, so, unless you somehow provoke me to take a swipe at you first, the honor is all yours. :)

Kpower
01-28-2010, 11:57 AM
All of the southern hand share much in common and much that they don't share.
One southern hands can transfer pretty well to another.
To me a system is "known" when one can apply it and apply it well in a fight.
It make take years to perfect it, that is a given, but if it takes years to be able to use it, then a system like that is in ferior to one that can be used in less time.
Its only logical.

Then the system does matter.

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 12:02 PM
Then the system does matter.

Not in regards to "intent", no.
Maybe one time It could have, but these are different times and people are different.

Just because a system SAYS it is "the deadly" because it does * insert supposed claim here* doesn't mean it is.
The proof to such a statement would be the "deadlieness" of the majority of its practioners.

hskwarrior
01-28-2010, 12:05 PM
why do you feel offended to seem that your system has been left out? obviously bak mei is a touchy subject to some folks.

my style could never be left out. sorry to burst that bubble there buddy. oh you think bak mei is a touchy subject....well check this out.....my ex student ended going to take bak mei here in san fran....and on his first day they made him spar....not one of them could touch my student. nough said on me end.


how many people do you need to shoot with a gun before you know you can?? flawed questional comparison to the subject here pal... i don't have to stick my fingers in your eye to know i can do it.

yeah you do.....you are working on THEORY alone there homie. if you've never maimed someone, then you are clueless to what it takes to. me, in fact, in oakland i was attacked....i blocked the strike and tore the mother ****ers arm wide open with my Fu Jow.....i've also permanently scarred one of my students for life with a Fu Jow. So i've put it to use. i know it worked for me. can you say that?


first the non willing opponent has to attack me to find out...

those skilled in the art of war let the enemy come to the battlefield, rather than be brought there by him.

thats some esoteric MUMBO JUMBO


usually if a man attacks out of blind rage, his attack has failed already, so, unless you somehow provoke me to take a swipe at you first, the honor is all yours.

it is those without fear that die first.....if i was to strike you it wouldn't be a single strike, and the first one would never be the truth to my attack.

MUMBO JUMBO

TAO YIN
01-28-2010, 12:13 PM
Yum Cha,

How does your Meng Fu start? hehehe! You didn't answer my medicine question about old Uncle Doo...

Where are you at stateside? Have a good trip.

uki
01-28-2010, 12:13 PM
someone has their panties in a wad... LOL... big fishes need the right bait. :D

hskwarrior
01-28-2010, 12:16 PM
someone has their panties in a wad... LOL... big fishes need the right bait.

you think too highly of yourself if you think you got my panties in a bunch. yet, go kill two birds with one stone by taking a shower and washing yours while you at it.

ur a strange bird.......for reals.....

uki
01-28-2010, 12:19 PM
you think too highly of yourself if you think you got my panties in a bunch. judging by the defensive nature of your last few posts... i like to think highly of myself, i am worth it. :)


yet, go kill two birds with one stone by taking a shower and washing yours while you at it. so are you speaking from experience?? just how bad is my stench??


ur a strange bird.......for reals.....better than being just another chicken in the coop that's for sure. :p

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 12:42 PM
This is the southern forum guys, I do not tolerate posts like those.
Edited them or I will do it for you.

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 12:43 PM
I'm serious Tao.

kfson
01-28-2010, 12:44 PM
You fellows need to find a surrey with some fringe on the top!

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 12:44 PM
Testing me is not a smart thing to do guys...

hskwarrior
01-28-2010, 12:46 PM
this is funny.

i'm serious....it's better than tv

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 12:52 PM
Warned you guys.
Keep it civil and clean.

uki
01-28-2010, 12:52 PM
this is funny.ya... i been here holding my newborn typing with one finger as she sleeps.

kfson
01-28-2010, 12:57 PM
newborn what? sapling? farm animal? possum? i mean what? LMAO

Head Louse.......................

White Eyebrows anyone?

sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2010, 12:57 PM
Good work guys.