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View Full Version : China/Grappling Classes at the NY Shaolin Temple



mello
12-13-2000, 08:03 PM
Hello All,

The Shaolin Temple Overseas Headquarters will be holding China/Grappling Classes for twelve weeks (twelve classes) starting this Saturday, December 16th, 6:30pm. Venerable Guolin Shi will be the instructor. There are a few spots opened so don't miss this opportunity. Please call the temple at 718-539-0872 if you are interested.

For address, visit our website at
null (http://www.shaolin-overseas.org)

mello
12-13-2000, 08:04 PM
www.shaolin-overseas.org (http://www.shaolin-overseas.org)

phantom
12-13-2000, 08:08 PM
Mello, do you actually study at this temple? Do you have to believe in Buddhism to study there? What does the temple's curriculum include? How much is their tuition? I would really appreciate it.

mello
12-13-2000, 08:40 PM
Hi Phantom,

Yes, I do study at the temple. The tuition info and class schedule are on the website.

We have people from all walks of life. All are welcomed to join. You do not have to study buddhism only if you are interested.

The classes are separated into two levels. Basic and Intermediate. In the Basic class, you will learn all the basic drills and beginner's empty hand sets (five-stance form, continuous fist, xiao-hong chuan). You have to take a test to enter the intermediate level (you'll be learning da hong chuan, seven-star fist, eyebrow staff, etc). The curriculum is always evolving. If you visit the temple during class hours, there is always a staff member there to answer all your questions. If you are a basic student you can attend all basic classes during the week. Same for intermediates. You can also attend the chi-gung classes.

I suggest you come and visit the temple either to watch or to take a free trial class. Just wear a t-shirt, sneakers you don't wear outside, and black sweats.

-Mello

premier
12-13-2000, 08:55 PM
do they teach the real traditional shaolin kung fu or some ****ty modernized wushu-version?

GinSueDog
12-13-2000, 09:02 PM
I am curious as what the grappling classes would look like, is it some type of chinese grappling and is it groundfighting or standing grappling using throws and sweeps liek Sport Judo?

"The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist

phantom
12-13-2000, 10:51 PM
Thanks, Mello. I really appreciate it. Peace.

DragonzRage
12-15-2000, 08:03 PM
GinSue,

Assuming that their classes are on traditional Chinese Shuai Chiao and Chin na, it is most likely based on joint locks, sweeps, takedowns and throws and standing grappling. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have anything to do with ground grappling on the mat. CMA has never really delved into that aspect in very great detail.

There is only one martial art.

SifuAbel
12-15-2000, 09:26 PM
Most CMA seizing techniques may remain on the feet. But, it has many control movements on downed opponents. Planting foot or knee, etc. There are even some sprawl and cover moves, just not as many as JJ which uses the cover almost always. Even many of the throwing moves follow up with control techniques. The main difference between some of the joint locks in Chin Na and other arts is that it wasn't designed specifically for "submission", rather they tend to go for clean breaks and control damaged joints. In fact, some of the locks won't hold unless you go for the break.

Notice I said some of the techniques not all and not in the higher percentage. So please save the hyperbole.

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@aol.com

GinSueDog
12-16-2000, 05:29 AM
I am assuming from your description then that Chinese grappling techniques normally make no attempt at controlling the limb or target area. I say this because normally in BJJ or submission fighting control of the limb or target area is highly important, second only to getting an superior position. I am having a little trouble understanding your description as I cannot see for example an armbar working useless you have full control of the arm, and if you have full control of the arm you can opt to submit your opponent rather then complete the full range of motion of the technique that would cause serious harm. I pictured Chinese grappling to be similiar in my ways to sport Judo with alot of throws, sweeps or joint locks but unlike Judo with few big moves per say.-ED

"The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist

SifuAbel
12-16-2000, 08:17 PM
Ginsue,
As usual you make assumptions where there are none. And, as usual, you have the wrong assupmtion about this subject. The main reason you can't understand my post is simple: you're simply doing this to add to your own anti-kung fu campain. So no matter what I say you're going to twist it to work your way. I state directly that there are many control techniques in chin na then you go on and on to the contrary about how you "assume" that chin na is like sport judo. Your reply was abusurd at best and seemed to be written in haste in order to save the spirit of contempt you have for KF.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I am assuming from your description then that Chinese grappling techniques normally make no attempt at controlling the limb or target area. [/quote]
Where did you get this from? I was talking about seizing techniques.ALLseizing techniques are about control.
I later added thatmanythrowing techniques followed up into control moves. Some throwing is done to be followed up by striking.
Of course, I don't expect you to "understand" this being that not what you "want" to hear.

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@aol.com

GinSueDog
12-16-2000, 10:07 PM
No need for you to be an ass. I thought I explained already in my post. Your statement in the original post was a little confusing.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The main difference between some of the joint locks in Chin Na and other arts is that it wasn't designed specifically for "submission", rather they tend to go for clean breaks and control damaged joints.[/quote]

If you have control, then you should be able to have the option to submit or break the limb. From your discription it sounded like the only option available was to break the limb. So it makes it sound like there isn't full control of the limbs involved and that the majority of the techniques are joint or wrist locks of some sort. There is no need for you to be uncivilized or degrading. I was simply curious, and in no way do I believe my post was an attack on you or kung fu so please chill out.-ED

"The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist

Valraven
12-17-2000, 06:13 PM
Ground fighting is very much a part of TCM.
Gou Chuan, Ditang Chaun, Dilong Chuan and other sub-sets and off-shoots to name a few.
It has always been there, hiding in the open.
Valraven

SifuAbel
12-17-2000, 09:49 PM
Ginsue,

What part of the word "some" didn't you understand? I think your last two posts prove my point undeniably. Apparently you can't make the distinction between the word "some", the word "all" or the word "few".

Lets me clarify this for you

"few" means less than 25% of the time
"some" can be seen as 50%, but mostly less than 50%
"most" can mean 75%, or at least more than 50%
"all" means 100%
"normally" is understood as "most", not "some"

Now make sure to read this carefully several times so you can commit it to memory. If the above is too complicated for you, I can provide a simpler example using fruits or nuts or something you're really familiar with. And as far as being an a$$, it's better than being a pr1ck; but I guess you are what you eat.
c

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@aol.com

GinSueDog
12-17-2000, 10:11 PM
Whatever dude...

Everyone Else,
Am I correct is saying that much of Chinese grappling is based on standing techniques such as throws, sweeps, and joint locks, with few actual submissions. I am also guessing and I don't know how off I am but I see locks and strikes used together for limb destructions. Locking the wrist and then striking the elbow with a palm strike to dislocate or hyperextend the elbow? Or maybe locking the wrist and preforming a throw using the locked limb for leverage? Am I way off, or am I pretty close on target on a description of chinese grappling?-ED

"The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist

Braden
12-17-2000, 11:00 PM
GSD - Pretty much.

A couple of the guys who I think are good fighters have a tendency to follow standing grappling down to the ground and end in a submission. You can see this in both Mike Patterson's and Tim Cartmell's video clips which I've posted a number of times. The latter studies BJJ and incorporates it into his kungfu, while the former does not. So it's anyone's guess whether or not this comes directly from the kungfu training. My feeling would be that some pure kungfu teachers would have figured out and taught methods of transitioning into and maintaining ground submission (it seems like a logical thing to figure out when you have thousands of years), however, based on what I have seen, these individuals are extremely rare. So in practical terms, you are right on in your description. The ground-fighting chinese styles that people often mention are more oriented in counter-submission and joint-destruction from the ground, and are quite a different beast than BJJ (and they too are very rare).