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JJMantis
02-28-2001, 01:31 PM
I am interested in kung fu videos, and would like some opinions from people who have actually seen them. I understand the general pitfalls of video training. I have been formally training for some time now. When I move away from my sifu, I do not intend to start a new system with a new teacher, so I am just looking for stuff to play with. Among things I am looking at:

Wing Lam - Shaolin or Hung Gar animal sets
Shaolin (vids offered by a few vendors, incl kung fu mag.) - drunken boxing series
Paulie Zink - the new series from unique publications

little chain monkey
02-28-2001, 04:26 PM
If you are looking for a recommendation for some good instructional videos and are interested in Northern Style Shaolin Kung Fu I would recommend the following website- www.Kungfu-Wushu.com. (http://www.Kungfu-Wushu.com.) This school offers a distance learning video program that I am currently taking and would recommend it highly. The instruction is clear and easy to see and understand. They also furnish a workbook with the tapes that helps explain forms and techniques. I hope this helps.

HuangKaiVun
02-28-2001, 04:54 PM
I love the KWL series, doing the Northern Shaolin sets.

I don't always agree with the moves, but that's part of kung fu training even with a live sifu.


The Northern Shaolin series is not for the faint of heart or limited in physique.

I'm working through Level 3, and there are full splits in several of the sets. There are also one-legged squats that I may NEVER be able to do, and there are tons and tons of weapons and sets to learn.

I've had tons of prior training, so I'm learning this system. Even then, it took me about 3 years before I began to really feel comfortable with the Northern Shaolin system. I can't tell you how many times I've learned a set and then quickly forgotten it - and I've tried all the solo sets in the first 3 levels.

I'll be testing, but my goal is to get through all 4 levels on my own first. I've gotten all the way through Levels 1 and 2 SOLIDLY and am now starting 3 all over again.

CrossTrainer101
03-02-2001, 03:05 PM
Does anyone know if the video series by 34th generation Shaolin Temple monk Shi Goulin (Shi Yansi) which advertises in Kung Fu mag each month is traditional material or PRC wushu, by any chance? The ads read like it's the traditional stuff, but I've read a lot about fraudulent "monks" passing off wushu as Shaolin Kung Fu and was just interested in what's covered in this particular series.

Also, my background is WC via JKD, and I've noticed conflicting posts on whether WC is a Shaolin art or not. Could anyone clear that one up for me, please?

Thanks in advance,
Kevin McGuire

illusionfist
03-02-2001, 09:57 PM
I have been told that the drunken sets are very wushu-ish.

Peace :D

JJMantis
03-03-2001, 07:22 PM
First, I truly wish people would read and understand Bruce Lee, and not use JKD the name at all. He was writing for his time, and he has influenced all martial arts. Right now, almost any teacher is looking at absorbing more techniques and seeing what works. JKD is really the master's philosophy that you could apply to any art. And you are also right, that JKD is mainly WC, although applied at a mastery level.

I could ramble on much longer on that, but I won't. Go read it for yourself. Wing Chun was created to <em>beat</em> shaolin kung fu, by a shaolin nun Ng Mui. She passed it on to a female student (non-disciple) Wing Chun. She used it to beat a man trained in shaolin arts. So it was created in shaolin, but developed outside to expose it's weaknesses. Kind of like a double agent, if you ask me!

SifuAbel
03-03-2001, 11:24 PM
I have trained with KWL, he is a very good teacher.
The shaolin vids are very wushuish and are mostlty the sacntioned shaolin wushu that is current today. It looks nothing like the trad. stuff over here.
Paulie Zink? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Go with Chan sao Chung, if he ever gets his vids out.

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@aol.com

GeneChing
03-05-2001, 08:19 PM
I wrote the bulk of the Wing Lam videotapes. Sifu Wing Lam is my teacher; I helped him build his company prior to working here at Kungfu Qigong. In fact, I was his first full-time employee.

Wing Lam actually had three video series. The first series was by another company - 10 shaolin and 10 hung gar videos shot in one weekend (when my Sifu was sick, no less.) Wing Lam was never happy with the production quality of the first series, so as soon as his ten year exclusivity contract expired, we began to make our own. (There was also another independant video that came out about Shaolin #6, but that company folded after making only one video - video production ain't easy, especially at start up!)

The Wing Lam series was a massive undertaking - to capture his entire curriculum on video. We included reverse angles, slow motion, the traditional names of the movements, and at least one application for each technique (there are more, but we usually opted to show the simplest one, given our production schedule.) Ultimately, the overall response to that work was positive and those videos still do well. I hope you enjoy them and am always intersted in your commments on them.

Shi Guolin's series is very interesting. The drunken videos are not actually by Guolin, the are by some of his disciples. They do have a wushu influence, but his Shao-Hong Chuan and internal videos (where he demonstrates) are traditional. Guolin is most renown for his iron body, so his internal stuff is particularly intriguing. Personally I like his routines videos. It's all demonstration stuff by an array of monks and disciples - a lot of wushu, but some really amazing moves.

Lastly, I met Master Chan yesterday for the first time. I was most impressed by his height - he's really short. Personally, I like the old and the small masters. Big fighters are always impressive, but they're big and can just outgun you. I've known a lot of bouncers and bikers who never trained in martial arts, but they were formidable just because they were big. When they aren't big, well, it's got to be skill. Grandmaster Chan must be on to something to have developed such a reputation, given his height.

And, wow, did they give me an earful on Paulie Zink....

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KungfuMagazine.com (http://www.KungfuMagazine.com)

JJMantis
03-06-2001, 05:10 AM
Thank you both for your replies. Mr Ching, I believe we spoke via email about a year ago, same subject. As is too many times the case, money is in the way. As soon as I'm able, I'm sure I'll be placing an order. And even though I haven't, it makes me appreciate the personal replies even more.

A question for you both. What's the beef with Paulie Zink? KungFu magazine normally features him in a good way, and this month's article about master Chan very much stressed him as the "real" taishing-pekkwar master. But reading the histories and training methods of them both, they seem identical. Now, I do own 5 Paulie Zink videos from Panther Productions. I have always been intrigued by his unique flexability and stance work. I have mixed feelings about them. Yes, according to their training methods, they teach the entire pek kwar system first before you even see monkey. Yet the series is called "mastering monkey kung fu". This I feel is misleading. While I didn't get as much from the videos as I thought I would (ie, there are not 5 complete monkey forms on the "mastering monkey kung fu forms" tape) I understand why they put out only x-amount of material. I just wish they had been more straight with the marketing. That is why I had some higher hope for the new series from unique publications.

03-06-2001, 08:02 AM
I have a few of Lam Sifu's tapes from the N. Shaolin series and I am quite satisfied. They are the only MA training vids I have ever bought however, so take my opinion as you will. It is very clear and easy to follow the movements (well, as easy as any Northern Shaolin movements can be I guess :p ). I already knew some of the forms, but even the ones I didn't know I was able to pick up.

The only criticism I can offer is that some tapes are clearer than others. Not a big deal, but when you go in slow-mo or still frame some can be a little fuzzy. I'm just being nitpicky though. :p

I reccomend the Tam Tui tape as best value. That can be one wickked training exercise. I like to do it several times a day, sometime very slowly, almost Taiji like. Feel the Burn!!

Mr. Ching, it's nice to have one af Lam Sifu's students around!
20 tapes in a weekend!! WOW!!
I'd like to ask you a question. Have you met any of the correspondence students? I'm just wondering how they tend to measure up in your opinion, in general of course, I'm sure it varies widely. I'm debating weather or not to begin the actual correspondence reviews and was wondering how it works. The info on the website is a little vague. I appriciate any help you can give.

P.S. It's nice to see a Shaolin board here now!

A wise man speaks because he has something to say, A fool speaks because he has to say something.

GeneChing
03-07-2001, 12:00 AM
jj scanell: I think a Chan Sau Chung/Paulie Zink feud may be brewing. Chan now has a firm base in North America and his group is getting ready to rumble. They were really interested in information about K-1 and other NHB events, but they will certainly encounter the same difficulty that Cung Le has - They are not heavyweights.

A lot of questions are raised aobut Zink because his stuff looks so strange; his hyperflexibility borders on contortionism. Any flamboyant figure in the martial arts is subject to criticism.

sho-nuff: Actually, I have met many of the correspondence students. Most are fairly good, barring a few exceptions. It takes a lot of disipline to learn from video. In truth, the better students already had a solid foundation in the martial arts, so they could learn from video. It would be really tough to start from the beginning using video. However, anything can be a vehicle for transmission of the teachings. If our ancestors could learn from watching birds and bugs, we can certainly learn from video (although personally, I prefer the bugs ;) .)

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KungfuMagazine.com (http://www.KungfuMagazine.com)

[This message was edited by geneching on 03-07-01 at 03:06 PM.]

GeneChing
03-07-2001, 12:01 AM
BTW Chan's website is www.TaiShingPekKwar.com. (http://www.TaiShingPekKwar.com.) Ask him about Paulie.

BigDude
03-07-2001, 12:23 AM
Sheng Chi-

I also study through Sifu Scott's Northern Shaolin distance learning program (from WWW.Kungfu-Wushu.com). (http://WWW.Kungfu-Wushu.com).) I checked into a number of videos before I settled on this one, and find it to be very well done. How far along are you in the training?

Also, I have heard from numerous people that Wing Lam's videos are of excellent quality. I would say either of these is a good choice (provided, like me, you can't find a good instructor in your area)

Whether the stone hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits the stone, it's that pitcher that gets hurt

bamboo_ leaf
03-07-2001, 01:01 AM
This site is just starting up, for those interested.

www.kungfumaster.com.hk (http://www.kungfumaster.com.hk)

they are based out of hku.

as I said they are still getting thire site together, but seem to have a good program set up.

enjoy life

bamboo leaf

frosh2786
03-08-2001, 05:13 AM
i encourage everyoneto echeck out that kungfu master site. it isnt ready to go yet, as he said but it looks like it could be useful. they have a free trial up and it is very good, try it and see if you like it.

what is all this stuff about pek kwar? isnt that monkey kung fu? seems interesting...so do you guys think any of those videos wing lam or panther or espy or whatever is good to learn from to establish a solid basis in an art if i may be able to go into them with a sifu in a while? thanks in adance for replies!

JJMantis
03-10-2001, 02:30 AM
Pek Kwar is "axe fist". It is a rather cool looking northern kung fu system. The stance work is hard, but the applications aren't very straight forward.

Tai Shing is "great sage", after the legendary monkey king. This is the actual monkey kung fu.

In either system, Master Zink and Master Chan both say a student must learn all of pek kwar first. This not only allows you to be trained up, but prevents the 3-6 month drifting student from taking away any partially learned monkey kung fu, thereby preserving the art.

Master Zink also incorporates Tei Tong, which I believe means "great earth". Is is basically rolling and groundwork, which helps add to the monkey system. I don't know if Master Chan does the same, as I don't know as much about him yet.

If you have a sifu to sit down with videos, that is the way to go. Then again, have you learned all your sifu has to offer? I am told that most any video you get will have some detail missing, so that you can tell who learned from the school or from the tape. As I said, I own 5 Paulie Zik vids. There are useful gems in all of them, it is up to the student to apply them. Watching kung fu videos doesn't work like the matrix, you must get out there and work hard. I hope this helps!

Brad
03-10-2001, 03:29 AM
Hey frosh,

If you can you might want to consider taking some dance or gymnastic classes if you can't find a teacher. That way once you can drive yourself someplace you'll be in good shape, and have good flexability(which is useualy a big hurdle for biginers). The sooner you do this the better.

frosh2786
03-10-2001, 05:12 PM
actually i am pretty acrobatic. i dont have many balance probelms...aikido helps with that....but i dont think ill ever do splits...haaa

little chain monkey
03-13-2001, 06:16 PM
I just started working with tape #1 for the gray sash from Sifu Scott's distance learning program. My son and I are both doing it together. So far I like his program alot and find his tape easy to follow. As I mentioned, we are just starting out and have not experienced his testing procedure or how tough he is on his grading. Hope this helps.

BDKF
03-13-2001, 08:45 PM
Have any of you seen the tape series by Wing Lam, The Ten Hand Sets of Shaolin? I am considering getting it and I was wondering if any of you have worked with it.

brassmonkey
03-18-2001, 08:04 AM
"And, wow, did they give me an earful on Paulie Zink..." You must really be hearing it about Shaolin-Do article or not? I've seen you on another msg board take alot of flack for articles of fake monks, the article on Shaolin-Do and "Grandmaster of Shaolin" Sin The clearly endorses him by your magazine. Is there any fact checking or is he as legit of a GM in Shaolin as anyone or is there another set criteria for getting an article in your mag?

GeneChing
03-19-2001, 06:38 PM
Kungfu Qigong magazine does not officially endorse or refute anyone. It is really not our place. We report as even-handed as we can (and given the martial world, it's not easy.) Some might interpret the appearence of someone in our magazine as an endorsement, but it really isn't. By the same logic, a newspaper endorses all the candidates and all the issues since they report on it.

We were fully aware of the controversy surrounding Shaolin-do (in fact, I did publish a critical anecdote about meeting them at Shaolin Temple a long time ago...) but we felt that the pictures of the Southern Temple were too good to pass up, especially since it was the first time most westerners had ever seen this temple.

The only place we have had any negative reaction to the Southern Shaolin Temple article has been here on the forums. But then, forums tend towards negativity. I always say you're not anyone until someone flames you. The personal attacks I have received, particularly on the shaolin.nl forum, well, that was partly my fault. Some time ago, Ervin Nieves published an inflammatory article, not unlike Brian Grey's recent one in IKF. I responded to Nieves point-for-point in an article I published in IKF, refuting all of his arguments. He, in turn, published another inflammatory article attacking me and my Sifu personally but could only publish it in a HK film fanzine that was printed on xerox machine. No martial arts magazine would touch his work again because his initial inflammatory piece was libel. The experience earned me some enemies, but they are pretty impotent, unless you are offended by trolls. I guess that's why I've been avoiding responding to the Brian Grey article, although many have asked me.

Most of the response to the Shaolin-Do written Southern Temple article has been positive inquiries for more information about the Southern Shaolin Temple, so in our next issue, we have a picture of the archeological dig (that's from Benny Meng, not Shaolin-Do.) We hope to get more out about the southern temple soon. Perhaps someone on this forum could go and report for us?

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KungfuMagazine.com (http://www.KungfuMagazine.com)

[This message was edited by geneching on 03-20-01 at 09:49 AM.]

SifuAbel
03-27-2001, 09:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But then, forums tend towards negativity. I always say you're not anyone until someone flames you. [/quote]

Man!! Then I must be a superstar!!! LOL!!!

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@aol.com

GeneChing
03-28-2001, 06:14 PM
Yep, you're in the flame club and welcome to it! But there are all kinds of superstars, so it's not really much of an honor. Some of us get there by being real, some get there by being fake. My strategy has been to be the real fake. What about you? ;)

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KungfuMagazine.com (http://www.KungfuMagazine.com)

SifuAbel
03-29-2001, 03:53 AM
I've not claimed or done anything that I am not or that I haven't done. I've been flamed on this board just by standing up and not be bullied. Is there something wrong with that? I think not.

Gene, If you are who I think you are then we have met before. I have had seminar with your teacher and I am always ready to give an endorsement. There is nothing fake about you or your teacher.

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@aol.com

GeneChing
03-29-2001, 06:59 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as accusing you of being real or fake, but now that I re-read my last post, it certainly has that tone. Most forum flame wars start from poor writing like in my last post and I, of all people, so be more cautious.

Have we met before? Forgive me again for not remembering you. If you're in San Mateo, our office is in Fremont. If you are ever going to be in the neighborhood, drop me a line and I'd be happy to give you a quick tour of the our office.

And we extend that invitation to everyone on the forum. www.KungfuMagazine.com (http://www.KungfuMagazine.com) is part of a real brick & mortar business, Tiger Claw Martial Arts Supplies, and you are all very welcome to visit. We don't really have a showroom because Tiger Claw is wholesale only, but if you give me a call to arrange a time, I'd be happy to personally take you on a quick short tour.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KungfuMagazine.com (http://www.KungfuMagazine.com)

SifuAbel
03-29-2001, 08:43 PM
I know that that I visited your teachers school with my teacher a couple of years ago. My teacher is Gus Rubio from florida. And, I think we spoke briefly at your teachers kiosk at the the 98 Lily lao tournie. If it was you, you had longish hair and mustash.

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@aol.com

Subitai
03-30-2001, 08:53 AM
Ya, the way he looked at that time...He looked like the bandit from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.

In fact, people say he STILL looks like the bandit. hahahhhaahahh

"O"

SifuAbel
03-30-2001, 09:45 AM
I was the guy limping around at the tourney. I had injured myself doing something really stupid and couldn't compete for a year. Black T-shirt chinese writing on the front. Diamond with a snake spear in the middle.

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@aol.com

JJMantis
03-30-2001, 12:19 PM
Did somebody say they were from San Mateo. FL?

Gold Horse Dragon
03-30-2001, 03:58 PM
Greetings Gene,

A martial arts aquaintance of mine said to me that he heard from a Wing Lam student that the videos on sets (kuen) have something different or left out than what is taught for each set in the Kwoon, so that your sifu and students could tell if a person learn't by video. To me, it makes no sense at all...your sifu would know whether he taught a student in person or not and I know that this aquaintance of mine is always trashing. However, I am interested in your comment regarding this. Thanks in advance!
GHD :cool:

Kymus
03-31-2001, 09:43 PM
My Sifu has a few video series out through ESPY-TV. I currently only own the first tape in the JKD series, but plan on buying the full Kali series real soon. In the JKD series, he goes over thigns very well and has some of the assnt instructors help. I think he did a great job with it. I also own a few tapes by Tat Mau Wong on the Shoalin Staff and 5 Animals. He goes over them very well showing different angles and slow motion. he also adds in comments during the form. My only gripe is that not enough applications are shown, especially in the 5 animals form. But the ones he does show he goes over atleast 3 or 4 times, and really gives you an understanding of the application. Another video series I am starting to gather is the Long Fist series by Dr. Yang Jwing Ming. The video is put together very well. Many many applications are shown and that makes me feel good, giving me a better understanding of things. The only real complaint I have with the vids is that the slow motion, or follow along speed really isn't slow enough and I often have to put my vcr on slow mo so I can do it at an understanding pace. I plan on buying some of Wing Lam's vids soon also.

-Kymus

~Crosstraining is the key~
-Sifu Rick Tucci
www.pamausa.com (http://www.pamausa.com)

GeneChing
04-01-2001, 07:57 PM
SifuAble,
I was at that tournament, but forgive me if I don't remember you. Come by the office here in Fremont sometime and refresh my memory!

Gold Horse Dragon,
I wish we could have been that premeditated in our video production to do something you suggest, but no. It was enough of an effort just to make the videos. However, I will admit that there are a few of us who CAN tell the difference between Wing Lam's video students and the ones that come to his school, but not because of some intentional deletion. The reason is that we can only put so much into a video.

A video is a wonderful resource and can put out as much as info as intensive private lesson at a fraction of the price, plus you don't have to take notes because you have the video. However, if you are a direct student, who knows how many such lessons you might receive over the course of a year. So of course, there is a difference. Videos are great but there is simply no substitute for direct transmission.

After writing over 100 videos(for both Wing Lam and now for TC Media,) let me tell you, making videos a lot of work (that is, if you want to do them well.) I have always made an effort to give more context, more history and more translations. And that is the most telling clue for me to identify video students - the knowledge, not the moves. For example, an article was submitted to the magazine recently about the animals of Ha Say Fu. I read it and though "man, that sounds familiar." Then it hit me, it was directly from the videos I wrote, almost word-for-word.

This is happening more and more. Lately I get my own research spit back at me all twisted up - from people who didn't listen well or learned from a teacher who used the videos as a source. It's really funny to me. I guess I'm flattered.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KungfuMagazine.com (http://www.KungfuMagazine.com)

Gold Horse Dragon
04-02-2001, 04:00 AM
Hi Gene,

Thanks for the reply...it is as I thought - my aquaintance doing more trashing...sheesh!
Article with word for word what you wrote for the tape script...again - sheesh!...I guess he did not know where else to research, but word for word!...must have been a short article, because as you say, you can't fit an over amount on a tape. Did this guy do Ha Say Fu or was he just writing on it?...if he does it, he should have asked his sifu a lot about it.
GHD

GeneChing
04-02-2001, 07:44 PM
Actually, if you compile all the video narrations together, you can flesh out a decent length article. He tied it together with some other comments, but there were large sections that were directly plagerized. I suppose it's good to know that those videos are being studied carefully, since that was our intention.

The guy did do ha say fu, at least from the videos. I don't know if he had another source beyond that. It certainly didn't sound like it.

Plagery is such poor "wude." I struggle to remain unattached. Once I've published something, it belongs to the readers. But I do try to keep track of anyone who might be stealing my credit, especially since this is how I make my living. You can take or leave my writings, but please leave my food on my plate, I do have a family to feed.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KungfuMagazine.com (http://www.KungfuMagazine.com)

Raipizo
04-19-2009, 10:34 AM
has anyone ever heard of Wing Lam and his Kung Fu learning dvds at www.wle.com? I was just wondering so i could know how good they were if they were at all.

ngokfei
04-19-2009, 02:22 PM
There are video clips on youtube and probably exerpts from the instructional sections as well.

IMO the are average in that they satisfy what the standard of the time was to teach a Form and give some literal movement applications.

Are you looking to learn some forms or to gain insight into combat/self defense?

GeneChing
04-20-2009, 12:25 PM
Play with the search engine and you'll find more. Meanwhile, I've merged your thread to one of our older ones that was similar.

Raipizo
04-20-2009, 06:15 PM
i've noticed lol Well i was looking forward to learning his shaolin style kung fu.