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dave the dragon
02-21-2001, 05:20 PM
hello there new question from a new participant .are there differences between different types of yoga and chi gung as although chi gung is focused on energy and yoga is uniting mind and body dont the both items achieve the same objective in the end if there are difference (apart from the obvious that ones from china and the other india!)prana and chi are they not the same
i lack knowledge in the details of the background and general philosophy although i use them both in my training
all sensible viewws would be welcome

DragonStudios
02-21-2001, 06:41 PM
Yes, Yoga and Qigong are essentially the same IMO. I've been practicing Hatha Yoga for over 8 years, and have experienced Qigong through my Taiji and Daoist study. I've found both to ultimately have the same goals and functions. Yoga, depending on what type you study, strengthens, developes, and nourishes the Body, Mind, and/or Spirit. Qigong, depending on what type you study, does the same thing. Advanced Yogis perform seeming miracles with their command over their bodies and prana. Qigong masters perform seeming miracles with their command over their bodies and chi.

Is Chi & Prana the same? Yes.

Without going outside, you may know the whole world.
Without looking through the window, you may see the ways of heaven.
The ****her you go, the less you know.
--Lao Tsu

o
02-22-2001, 12:12 AM
Please don't tell me prana and prajna are the same thing! Is prana just the Hindu yoga word for chi/internal energy? And is prajna just the Pali (or Sanskrit?) word for the knowledge acquired through meditation? Is pranna (notice the two n's)the same as prajna?

thething
02-22-2001, 09:57 AM
Yes there is differences between qigong, yoga, meditation. Qigong more or less is supposed to develop certain stuff as to all the other things, where, yoga, mediatation more or less mostly harmonize the body's energy.

prana
02-25-2001, 03:49 AM
They are ultimately the same. The difference in trainings will allow a few certain differences along the way but the ultimate realisations are the same, englightenment.

Prana are also translated as "Transcendental Wisdom". This is because the realisation of Prana in Yoga must be accompanied with equanimity and pinpoint realisations and hence wisdom. Qi in chinese is basically "Air"

Breathe till there is no breath...

kungfu cowboy
02-19-2002, 09:31 AM
Does yoga have the same or similar effects (aside from flexability) as qigong practice, since it involves specific breath work? What are the (empirically tested?) differences? What exactly is qigong really supposed to be doing anyway?

fa_jing
02-19-2002, 09:44 AM
Well to the Yoga practicioners, Chi is called Prana. They don't necessarily focus as much on the meridians, focusing more on the Chakras which are nerve centers. The 7 Chakras have a correspondance to Qigong points in the body, such as the lower, middle, and upper Dan Tien. A lot of similarities, a few differences. One should help you with the other.
-FJ

Asia
02-19-2002, 09:48 AM
Yes Yoga and Chi Kung are similar. Yoga is better suited for you health. Speculation is that many of the Chi Kung exercises come from different forms of Yoga. Kudanlini is know for boosting energy, mental awareness, and in some cases unlocking the feral nature of man.

shaolinboxer
02-19-2002, 10:24 AM
It has become my impression that chi kung is yoga practiced for hundreds of years with no instruction manual.

Sam Wiley
02-19-2002, 10:25 AM
The effects are supposedly similar. There are some exercise that are called "Taoist Yoga" that fall in between what we know as qigong and Yoga. To me, they are more similar to yoga as far as the postures go, but many tend to focus a lot on breathing or sounds made, which really smacks of qigong. But I suppose it is all technically qigong, just different preferences.

Anyway, I prefer qigong over yoga. I get more out of qigong than I did out of asana when I practiced it.

Felipe Bido
02-19-2002, 10:29 AM
Pranayama (The breathing excercises of yoga) and Qigong are the same thing. Excercises to regulate and channel prana (Qi) trough your body.

GunnedDownAtrocity
02-19-2002, 10:36 AM
my sifu taught us the sun salutation. i never do it though. i feel i get more out of qigong as well. though i have done my breathing exercises hundreds of times vs 4 or 5 i have done the yoga.

EARTH DRAGON
02-19-2002, 12:51 PM
I agree with all of you but would just like to add that not all qigong is practiced for health or for that matter self cultivation. There are many qigong practices that focus on medcical or scholar that have nothing to do with learning or excersiseing ones self.

These could not be considered or compared to yoga for they are practiced outside the mind set of the body thus not related to moving, stretching, cultivating, sitting meditation.

Also most qigong have roots in india since india is the original most all qigong practices or stlyes came from mother land india.

Sam Wiley
02-19-2002, 01:50 PM
ED,
What do you mean "scholar" qigong? Are you using that as another name for "medical" qigong? I was of the understanding that there are only 3 basic kinds of qigong; self-healing, martial, and medical.

prana
02-19-2002, 02:45 PM
Chi-Gung is a yoga. Yoga means to "yolk".


Does yoga have the same or similar effects (aside from flexability) as qigong practice, since it involves specific breath work?

Yoga that deals with positions and stretches are usually classified as "hatha Yoga", though I do not know the exact translation of "hatha". Hatha yoga does involve breath work, it depends on the practitioner. Some may decide to only utilise the stretching and strength building part of it, others may decide to incorporate breathing into the technique.


They don't necessarily focus as much on the meridians, focusing more on the Chakras which are nerve centers.

Hindu's place much epmphasis in the chakra's more so than the Buddhists do. But Buddhists also place lots of influence on the chakras, but more so with the central psychic nerve and the signs of dissolution.

The many yogas branch from the course body (flesh and bones) to to the Nirmanakaya (meridian body) the subtlest bodies Dharmakaya, usually associated with the central psychic nerve whereby life force is twisted (at the heart for humans).


Also most qigong have roots in india since india is the original most all qigong practices or stlyes came from mother land india.

So true. Bodhidharma practised yoga. What he taught was yoga, Stilling the mind is yoga. When he brought the teachings to Shao Lin. He also taught simple steps of yoga, and methods of strengthening the body and mind.


? I was of the understanding that there are only 3 basic kinds of qigong; self-healing, martial, and medical.

plus more - spirituality, enlightenment, extending life or attaining the rainbow body, helping the deceased, choosing rebirth, sorcery and black magic, surviving hardship such as starvation or extreme cold etc., so many more.

I hope this alleviates the differences between the word yoga and what you guys practise "Qi-Gong". It is saying "Chia" in Fujien and saying "swallow" in English, they are both similar just different names, in different places. To eat is to swallow, to swallow is not neccesirily to eat.

Here is another question, why do you guys call "GING", "jing" ? Because I think Jing is a Chinese word for Kundalini. Ging is a force released from tendons. Correct me if I am wrong ?

Another is the word Chi-Kung (I have noticed) has been confused with body mechanics, because of the word Ging....

Hopefully I havent created too much problems with this post.

yuanfen
02-19-2002, 05:17 PM
In the "transmission of the lamp" of Buddhism to China from India
among other things some postures(asanas), mudras and breath discipline
were transmitted. As happens in cultural adaptation different versions developed- some good some not so good .Same in Indian yoga too... lots of health club yoga teachers have a superficial understanding of yoga--- specially the role of the breath and different kinds of breathing. Hatha is only one kind of yoga---there are several kinds. And even variations in teaching hatha. Hatha is the joining (yoke) of ha and tha two complementary forms of energy....sun-moon, yin/yang etc.Yoga pre dates Buddhism in india but
the hindu Patnjali attempted to systematize yoga approx. in the second century BC. he did not "invent" it. Taoism and Buddhism sometimes have had a cooperative relationship and sometimes rivalry. But the breath principles are parallel. If you check good books including Yang Jwing-Mings on the subject in one final circulation around the stomach Buddhists and Taoists just differ on anti clock versus clockwise- the latter difference is not really
significant. Yoga like chi gung can be heath specific and martial specific. Not all yoga is static- astanga yoga isnt.
The chi in chi gong parallels prana. But chi as a word is used in many other contexts and should not be confused.
Some good martial arts sytems have chi gung built into it.
Like many good things- best to get an expert teacher.
yuanfen/joy
The breath discipline and the realted yoga

guohuen
02-19-2002, 07:42 PM
I believe Hatha Yoga translates to Body Disipline.

EARTH DRAGON
02-19-2002, 08:08 PM
WOW I would just like to say outstanding posts prana & yuanfen. Very knowledgeable my hat goes off to you both.

prana, jing ging, just a different way of spelling like taji tai chi, chi kung qigong ba gua, pakua same meaning but its hard to spell sounds.

Sam wiley,
there are actually many different kinds of qigong i.e martial , medical , religous and scholar to put it simply...... it was developed by scholars for manintaing health. Their main focus was promoting an emotionally neutral mind and smooth chi cirrculation. They also focused on this cirrculation to lead the chi to the brain which they belived made them more intelligent. many excersises were created to aid in the nourishing of the brain and increasing its mass and function......

fa_jing
02-20-2002, 10:18 AM
Just wanted to point out YaunFen is right, Yoga means yoke not yolk. Prana you better learn to spell. ;)

-FJ

Repulsive Monkey
02-20-2002, 10:41 AM
I can remember going to a friends Yoga class recently by invitation. I was very curious too, as to the relationship and possible similarities between what I would learn and Qi Gong. I have to say (and yes I do know that there are a variety of Yoga's out there) that I will probably never really be an advocatee as Yoga (or at least the style I practiced in the class) as it being a close cousin to Qi Gong. My experience was insightful but made me realise that it went against a number of Qi Gong principles, and made it impossible to circulate Qi through my meridians. The tension that was involved in the class alone made it impossible, and certain postures just plain and simply cut of the flow from a number of arm meridians. The main aspect I didn't like (obviously becasue I'm biased to wards Qi Gong) was the locking of the knee joints which because of the habit of unlocking them over the years made it feel quite strange and uncomfortable too. Some people came out afterwards saying they felt refreshed, me and a Kung fu pal of mine came out and felt unimpressed with it. I know that it was a) just one lesson; b) something new; c) something which wasn't what we have been training in for many years; etc. but I have to say that this specific style of Yoga did not make me feel in any way like the way I feel after doing Qi gong, in fact just the opposite. I came at afterwards with a headache and felt drained of energy to be honest. I quite clearly felt Qi blockage during some of the postures even when I was corrected by the instructor and re-aligned, in fact at one correction she said "there you go how does that feel now?", to which I honesty had to say "worse!".

This is all just one experience and will not try to insult Yoga, but it aims are probably the same as Qi Gong in many ways but I do not share the general idea on this thread that there are both so closely related, I feel there are some siginificant differences.

fa_jing
02-20-2002, 12:54 PM
C'mon, man! That class you took was ****ty, obviously! You gonna diss KF based on the worst class you ever took??

-FJ

GunnedDownAtrocity
02-20-2002, 03:57 PM
fajing . . . actually he specifically admitted he was forming his opinion on one class. it's just all he has to base his opinion on right now. he also said it could have been the class, the style, or him that made him feel that way.

i know im not playing with a full deck of cards most of the time, but i got these crazy ideas from statements like . . .

I do know that there are a variety of Yoga's out there

. .. or at least the style I practiced in the class

. .. obviously becasue I'm biased to wards Qi Gong

i know that it was a) just one lesson; b) something new; c) something which wasn't what we have been training in for many years

.. . this specific style of Yoga

This is all just one experience and will not try to insult Yoga, but it aims are probably the same as Qi Gong in many ways but I do not share the general idea on this thread that there are both so closely related, I feel there are some siginificant differences.

then again maybe fajing was being sarcastic and im just to stupid to catch it.

fa_jing
02-21-2002, 10:16 AM
Hmm, no I wasn't being sarcastic. I appear to be suffering from temporary blindness probably from sitting at a computer all day. Lately I haven't even had the patience to complete read through posts or threads, I type in spurts and I am putting my foot in my mouth lots these days. Chalk it up to stress or distraction. My mind feels like BWauhwauhwauhwauh like I'm a zombie or something. Actually our client hasn't been providing much work lately and everyone around here is acting like a zombie.

Sh1t

-FJ

fa_jing
02-21-2002, 10:21 AM
Here's an attempt at an on-topic response: One major difference between Yoga and QiGong is that in yoga you don't touch your tongue to the roof of your mouth, so they don't work as much at circulating energy in an orbit, rather the emphasis on drawing energy to specific points.

-FJ

Repulsive Monkey
02-21-2002, 11:28 AM
Thanks Gunned... yup Fa-Jing I make no bones about the fact that I am relatively uninformed about the the area of Yoga. There is another majot difference (however maybe someone here can curb this generalisation im about to make!!!?) in the class I took, which apparently was taught to us by a qualified instructor, we were told to pluck up the chest and close the back. In Taiji and Qi Gong, it is a major principle due to the meridian pathways of the Ren and Du Mei that one must pluck up the back and hollow the chest area. This particular when asked to do it in the class caused me to generate heat in the chest area and I stopped doing in the class, because it felt unhealthy to do so.

Sam Wiley, I know you mentioned about the discipline termed Taoist Yoga in relation to this thread, but howeverif my sources are correct, then this term used by people like Lu K'uan Yu, refers completely to Taoist Achemical practices only! It uses the word Yoga I believe not in the literal sense of the Indian connection/practice.

Vapour
04-08-2003, 02:42 PM
Does anyone here knowledge enough in both arts to comment on the difference between Yoga and Qigon?

prana
04-08-2003, 02:50 PM
both terms encompass a large area of understanding. Yoga can mean many things that qi-gong does not.

Perhaps you want to elaborate a little more ?

ZIM
04-08-2003, 02:51 PM
Geez...could you be a little more specific? :p

IN GENERAL: Yoga is a discipline of awareness, *like* meditation. It doesn't generally contain things like, say... Iron Crotch.

Like all generalizations, this one is wrong too.

Vapour
04-08-2003, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by prana
both terms encompass a large area of understanding. Yoga can mean many things that qi-gong does not.

Perhaps you want to elaborate a little more ?

O.K. What kind of things yoga can mean are not meant in qigong?

ZIM
04-08-2003, 03:11 PM
If you don't mind me responding as well...

"Yoga" is like saying "kung fu": its a lot of different angles that point towards one thing.

In my, admittedly beginner's, opinion- the essence of yoga can be seen when you see a baby find its feet for the first time... just joyful, exploring, etc. The POV they seem to want is that innocent and fearless approach to the world, the oceanic swim of things. That can be gotten thru meditation, chanting, asanas, activation of kundalini, etc. What I mean is, take into account that this is a final goal when you weigh differences.

Qiqong is involved in certain aspects of that over others and adds its own, IMHO. For me, I take it as 'transformation' in a bodily sense- developing the body/mind connection, promoting flow of chi, etc. There is decidedly less involvement in certain POVs. When there is, its focus tends to be that seen in Taoism or Buddhism.. a kind of celestial awareness and a developed system of correspondences.

In the end, both tend to promote a union of subject/object...

...And now, to defer to prana... he's a good one for this. :)
---------------
Forgot- neither yoga nor qiqong necessarily involve these POVs.. both can be external.

Vapour
04-08-2003, 07:11 PM
o.k. I know correct translation of yoga is kung/gong hence it simply means work or exercise. So Qigong is expercise of ki/energy. So what type of training/exercise/work yoga is aiming at?

prana
04-08-2003, 08:07 PM
I still dont really understand the question, but I will just assume you are talking about similar exercises in yoga that are also performed in qi-gong.

It is really quite similar, to be honest, they may have different aims and uses, but they use the same vehicle of prana to achieve it. I cant speak for the literally thousands of yoga forms out there, but if there I might just sum it up by saying

The union between body and mind is usually the goal, and it usually begins with the breath.

I dont mean to open a can of worms, but qi-gong is just a yoga form that was brought to China, perhaps via Mangolia or olden day India. Whatever the matter, its use in martial arts is a huge step forward for martial artists.

davethedragon
04-10-2003, 02:04 AM
i would agree with prana's explanation both are methods to enhance prana or chi (which are essentially the same thing) through the body/mind/energy connection.
and i love both of em!!:D :D :D :D

Vapour
04-10-2003, 04:16 PM
O.K. let me be more specific.

Here is a quote from Zheng Man Qing.

"Moreover, taichi stresses sinking your chi to the tantien extrapolated from Lao Tzu's concept of concentrating your chi to become soft and young. The Taoist phrase, "The waterwheel spins backward," depicts the flow of chi as it travels up your spinal Tu Meridian, passing first through your wei-lu then the Jade Pillow, and on up to your ni-wan point. This process is called "Opening the Three Gates" and is explained in the Taichi Classics: "When your wei-lu is centered and straight your spirit can rise to your headtop." Seminal energy is worked until it transmutes into spirit - which probably proceeds from within the bones. Conversely, Bodhidharma's arts as explained in his "Sinew Changing" and "Marrow Cleansing" classics do develop chi, but the chi is allowed to proceed along its natural course up your frontal Jen Meridian to your face. The chi hardens because it follows your sinews and vessels without changing into spirit - attributes of an external system"

Now, my taijiquan instructor do Iron Shirt Neigon. When I hit him, his body was like baloon. On the other hand, for what I can see, hard/external style Neigon seems to turn your body into steel.

Moreover, my experience of yoga is that thought it has as much internal aspect as Qigong, it is a hard arts where one must get the structure right then relax internally.

So would this contrast between Shaolin and Wudang kung fu apply to Yoga and Qigong.

Plus, the above quote make no sense to me at all. Can anyone explain to me what the difference between hard and soft chi.

prana
04-10-2003, 06:04 PM
Let me try my best to explain this, although some things you are saying are very specific to tai-ji training and I do not necessarily understand the translation is...


Originally posted by Vapour
O.K. let me be more specific.

Here is a quote from Zheng Man Qing.

"Moreover, taichi stresses sinking your chi to the tantien extrapolated from Lao Tzu's concept of concentrating your chi to become soft and young. The Taoist phrase, "The waterwheel spins backward," depicts the flow of chi as it travels up your spinal Tu Meridian, passing first through your wei-lu then the Jade Pillow, and on up to your ni-wan point. This process is called "Opening the Three Gates" and is explained in the Taichi Classics: "When your wei-lu is centered and straight your spirit can rise to your headtop." Seminal energy is worked until it transmutes into spirit - which probably proceeds from within the bones. Conversely, Bodhidharma's arts as explained in his "Sinew Changing" and "Marrow Cleansing" classics do develop chi, but the chi is allowed to proceed along its natural course up your frontal Jen Meridian to your face. The chi hardens because it follows your sinews and vessels without changing into spirit - attributes of an external system"


I think the class of yoga you are speaking of has much to do with forms of breath manipulation. Essentially, if your mind is free from duality, the mind will naturally enter into the center channel and up into the head. This is the process of birth and the process of death. In fact, this subtle energy passage is contnuously happening, and everyday in the process cycle of sleep and awake.

Here in, many "yogas" (I refer to the specific yogas such as anu) either manipulate the mind directly to affect non-duality or directly affect the breathe with the knowledge that the single pointed mind is the guidance of prana. I think you can imagine what I am saying, the relationship between the duality of the mind and the path of qi is undifferential in the unenlightened being.



Now, my taijiquan instructor do Iron Shirt Neigon. When I hit him, his body was like baloon. On the other hand, for what I can see, hard/external style Neigon seems to turn your body into steel.


I am not too versed on the concept of hard/soft qi-gong, but there are plenty of practitioners here that do, such as dezhen and Repulsive Monkey and more...



Moreover, my experience of yoga is that thought it has as much internal aspect as Qigong, it is a hard arts where one must get the structure right then relax internally.

So would this contrast between Shaolin and Wudang kung fu apply to Yoga and Qigong.

Shaolin religious Qi-Gong practise emphasises the non-duality of mind. Although it is not much followed these days, the students go through a stage of preliminary practise of visualising or paying homage to the Buddha. Students who have mastered this non-duality will then enter into the generation stage yogas and then taught to channel energy into their dan-tien with their though as the vehicle.

Nowadays, practitioners take up the practise of breath manipulation and the fundamental practise is learning the breathe into the dan-tien.

There is a key hidden difference in the two that I would rather not talk about, but it is, in all cases, very very similar.


Plus, the above quote make no sense to me at all. Can anyone explain to me what the difference between hard and soft chi.
In summary, really, a lot of the differences in yogas comes to a final goal, and that goal is to achieve the ability to willingly move their energy into the central channels, and evoke the mother and father elements and achieve ultimate wisdom of the indestructable truth about all life forms, what Buddhist call the Buddha Nature or sometimes interpreted by the word Bodhicitta (which is also used to describe the meditation of selflessness and loving kindness). Another explanation you might choose to use is that of sombogakhaya and dharmakaya.

Vapour
04-10-2003, 07:18 PM
?????????

Now you lost me. Zheng Man Qing was a famous Traditional Chinese Medicine doctor and from what I know, he is not talking about mind but specific issue of Chinese physiology from qi perspective.

Zheng Man Qing's quote indicate that there is a specifict difference in a way chi/ki is channlelled in Shaolin Kung Fu and Wudang Kung Fu. This difference seems to manifest into different quality of ki/chi, which seems to manifest into different nature of Neigon. And when I say difference in manifestation, this seems to specifically refer to physical manifestation as opposed to meditative/mind manifestation.

I have seem my instructor's Neigon being very soft which seems to have distinctively differet quality from Shaolin style Neigon. Can anyone explain the mechanism in which such differnce occurs. It will help if anyone have done both soft and hard Iron Shirts Neigong.

Second question is whether this difference in channeling of chi could be similarly described as an principle difference between Qigong and Yoga. As we know, Qigon is so much softer than Yoga just like tajiquan is so much softer than Shaolin Kung fu. In such case, it will not be correct to state that Qigong is Chinese version of Yoga.

ZIM
04-11-2003, 07:31 PM
An article that MAY help (http://www.yogajournal.com/practice/580_1.cfm)- no guarantees, of course.


he is not talking about mind but specific issue of Chinese physiology from qi perspective Mind/body is a duality, so the conception of how you're reading it *may* be a little off- maybe thats the sticking point. Tho I confess that the excerpt is rather mystifying to me, also...

dezhen2001
04-12-2003, 01:29 PM
from the little i have experienced "hard" qigong is also a misleading term - as there are many types, some more "external" and concerned with conditioning mainly, others more "internal" dealing with issuing energy and power, specifically using breathing and forms of meditaiton to balance the physical exercises/training.

i have seen some people who do all the things like hitting their palm or fist on various things, bamboo against themselves etc. yet there doesnt seem to be any "breath" training? infact, it just seems like body conditioning.

The skill i train is different to this, and although we use objects to hit ourselves mainly as far as i have experienced, its to help us understand how to issue power to protect or use offensively. specifically using breathing and meditation techniques as well.

We say hard qigong develops the "bones, tendons and skin", but it has to be in that order or else you are hollow. It is also a metaphor from inside to outside. If you just train conditioning and dont have a clear body from blockages and have a developed potential, eventually u will be damaged. Thats why inside is most important.

yes my body has got a little denser, but my body is still soft and supple. infact one exercise we always do when training is specifically to loosen off the whole body after training and to relax.

Also meditation and relaxation is a very important part. So "soft" and "hard" are not mutually exclusive (at least in my skill).

i also train in soft qigong every day. I agree the attitude and way of doing things is different, because Neigong/hard qigong has an obvious martial aspect, soft qigong does not, though it is there in some skills too.

just my random thoughts,
how this relates to yoga i have no idea, prana just mentioned my name coz i train both :D

dawood

Vapour
04-15-2003, 04:51 PM
Does anyone know good Yoga Forum? I will post the same question there and post link to that thread here.

SevenStar
10-14-2004, 12:12 PM
what is the difference in internal development between these two?

lkfmdc
10-14-2004, 12:38 PM
It really depends who you talk to, different traditions say different things....

This is going to get complicated real fast, but let's start first with how Chinese often talk about "internal work"

medical
religious
martial art

NONE of these is cut and dry. Many martial art traditions got their internal work from religious and medical methods. Many martial art methods found their way back into religious sects...

Yoga also has different branches, different traditions and different schools

Raja or royal yoga was a life style, but yoga itself is a general term meaning "union" and is related to the English work "yoke" or to bind. Yoga is to become "one"

Various Yogi have said this means different things, one with YOURSELF, one with NATURE, many today, to appeal to westerners, say one with G'd

Similarly, Taoist Chi Gong has been said to either 1) make you literally immortal (not die) or to 2) make you "one with the Tao" (which could mean one with the Jade Emperor, ie a god, or one with teh correct path, or one with the universe/nature

Depending upon the Buddhist school, you can be doing Chi Kung to strengthen your body for meditation, or to literally make yourself a Lo Han!!!! That may mean depending upon the tradition, becoming an imortal (like the Taoist Sin Yan) or simply making yourself no longer exist!!!

Theory and religion aside, on a practical level the many techniques both share is quite astounding. They are really sort of one and the same. You have both posture and breath, movement and stillness, alll which have quantifiable physical results and benefits....

Remember, Yoga includes Asana (posture, including movement) and Pranayana (breathing), then later there is deep meditation and contemplation

FuXnDajenariht
10-14-2004, 12:45 PM
They both have the same goal from what i've read about. I just found out that Yoga can be dangerous though, just like qiqong. Yoga can really mess you up physically and mentally if you dont have a proper teacher. Sinces its been marketed in America its been watered down for the yuppy crowd and they go in not knowing its true purpose. The purpose is not for relaxation or to stretch your muscles like most of them believe. Thats just a necessary side effect of good practice.

Seeing as qiqong basically originated from India but was adapted for Chinese culture i dont think you can go wrong either way. Both of them work to develop your mind, and control your bodies energy throught postures and meditation. Same difference so to speak.

Chang Style Novice
10-14-2004, 12:46 PM
Dangerous? How?

Except for maybe getting an incompetent instructor or overexerting yourself because you don't understand your current limits, I don't see it.

emre
10-14-2004, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
Seeing as qiqong basically originated from India but was adapted for Chinese culture

That's simply not true. Chinese have always had their own Qigong systems. Over time, some stuff came over from India and Tibet and was assimilated into some of the existing methods.

emre
10-14-2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Dangerous? How?

Except for maybe getting an incompetent instructor or overexerting yourself because you don't understand your current limits, I don't see it.

Pranayama and meditation can be dangerous if you do it incorrectly. Ever heard of something called the "Kundalini pyschosis"?

David Jamieson
10-14-2004, 01:03 PM
holy blah blah blah guys.

keep it simple. seeing as for the most part, little is known about how, why or when it works. Only theory and practice.

Qigong and Yoga are different ...period

you can do them both, or one or none.

they all encourage good posture and steady breathing regardless of all the different ways to make you aware of yourself as a physical, emotional and energetic being.

the end
thank you.

Chang Style Novice
10-14-2004, 01:13 PM
This is maybe splitting hairs, but if you're doing it incorrectly, it's arguable that you aren't really doing it, right?

Let's try this: correct practice will never be dangerous, if taken at an appropriate pace.


And no, I've never heard of kundalini psychosis. Is that a band?:p

FuXnDajenariht
10-14-2004, 01:17 PM
Your manipulating your bodies energy or chi or prana or pnuema or whatever u wanna call it. I know people here have heard warnings about the dangers of qigong. Wells its the same for yoga. Like i said, its not at all about stretching your hamstrings to unwind after work. Its a a religious exercise tied Hinduism and Buddhism. With the main goal of expanding your consciousness and becoming one with the universe or sumthin like that and there are alot of steps to make sure u do it safely. I hope i articulated that well....anyway

To answer your questions I've read about cases of people going insane or developing cancer, and so you dont im pulling this outta my ass....

"One often hears and reads about the dangers of Yoga, particularly of the ill-reputed Kundalini Yoga. The deliberately induced psychotic state, which in certain unstable individuals might easily lead to a real psychosis, is a danger that needs to be taken very seriously indeed. These things really are dangerous and ought not to be meddled with in our typically Western way. It is a meddling with Fate, which strikes at the very roots of human existence and can let loose a flood of sufferings of which no sane person ever dreamed. These sufferings correspond to the hellish torments of the chönyid state..." C. G. Jung, The Tibetan book of the Dead *

"Shree Purohit Swami’s commentary on Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras warns, "People forget that Yama and Niyama [limbs one and two] form the foundation [of yoga practice], and unless it is firmly laid, they should not practice postures and breathing exercises. In India and Europe, I came across some three hundred people who suffered permanently from wrong practices, the doctors on examination found there was nothing organically wrong and consequently could not prescribe." 7 Because most people (including most medical doctors) wrongly assume that yoga is harmless, they rarely consider its possible relevance to any illnesses of their patients who practice yoga. But we are convinced that many perplexing diseases, including some deaths, are related to yoga. Richard Kieninger, a New Age educator, recalls, "A woman of my acquaintance upset her hormonal balance doing this yoga exercise, and it produced a malfunction in her adrenal glands. Doctors didn’t know how to reverse the effects... and she soon died.... Swami Rama warns that advanced forms of patterned breathing, which is a common yoga exercise, can cause a person to harm himself irreparably." 8 United Nations spiritual adviser and spiritist Sri Chinmoy, 9 author of Yoga and the Spiritual Life, 10 admits, "To practice pranayama [breath control] without real guidance is very dangerous. I know of three persons who have died from it…" 11 In Yoga and Mysticism, Swami Prabhavananda warns about the dangers of the yoga breathing exercises, which so many today think are harmless, when he writes:

"Now we come to breathing exercises. Let me caution you: they can be very dangerous. Unless properly done, there is a good chance of injuring the brain. And those who practice such breathing without proper supervision can suffer a disease which no known science or doctor can cure. It is impossible, even for a medical person, to diagnose such an illness.... [For example,] I had known a young boy of perhaps 16 or 17 years of age who had begun to practice hatha yoga.... He was acting very strangely. He would prostrate fully on the ground, rise to full height, then repeat the performance—over and over again. The Swami said that he had lost his mind. ... Finally, however he became so unmanageable that he had to be confined.... As regards breathing exercises, I know that Sri Ramakrishna, Holy Mother, and all the disciples of Ramakrishna have warned us again not to practice them""

FuXnDajenariht
10-14-2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by emre
That's simply not true. Chinese have always had their own Qigong systems. Over time, some stuff came over from India and Tibet and was assimilated into some of the existing methods.

Well we have a difference of opinion but it wont do any good to argue. Agree to disagree....

emre
10-14-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
Well we have a difference of opinion but it wont do any good to argue. Agree to disagree....

There are opinions and then there are FACTS.

FuXnDajenariht
10-14-2004, 01:27 PM
ok enlighten me

emre
10-14-2004, 01:41 PM
Read up a bit on Qigong/Neigong history. There were very comprehensive methods in existence before anything came over from India or Tibet.

There are still some Daoist methods that have remained completely pure. They have nothing in common with Indian or Tibetan methods in their practice. Even the ones that adopted some techniques from those schools are very different from them in too many ways to count.

FuXnDajenariht
10-14-2004, 02:00 PM
Well ive read yogic and neigong history and about taoist history. I've actually studied alot about religion and it seems they all have common ground but thats another story....

Anyway, there are conflicting views but even some taoist books say their practices are original but were derived from knowledge they gained from Indian mystics or holy men or what have you. Now if you or any other historian can go back in time 3 or 4,000 years ill be the first one to taut what you say as 100% FACT but when it comes to history you can't be sure that anything is complete FACT at all. All you have is the opinion of someone else based on the opinion and observances of another person. So believe what you want. Its really mostly opinion after u reach the 1000 year mark.

Ai Lek Ou Seun
10-14-2004, 03:31 PM
Meditation brings you closer to yourself.

People who already have existing clinically diagnosed mental "disordders" should probably stay far away from meditation until they get that other stuff sorted out.

In other words they should stay away from themselves.

I just don't believe that any kind of meditation, yoga, chi gung or whatever could make you go crazy or give you cancer or whatever.

It's all anecdote, conjecture and superstition until someone can verify the causation that occurs between mental illness and some "incorrect" meditation/qigong/yoga practice.

Vash
10-14-2004, 07:11 PM
Masturbation makes you go blind.

Politicians are not out to **** you in the ass.

Doing something incorrectly can drive you bat**** insane.

These are the untruths of the world.

FuXnDajenariht
10-14-2004, 10:59 PM
People will believe what they want. Im not here to change anyones mind but he asked for opinions. You can find books written by dozens of different Yogis saying the same. Thats all i can go by. Im not gonna try to find out for myself for obvious reasons. Now if you want, you can argue with them about what they've practiced all their lives. Other Yogi think that its not possible. No one agrees 100% on most things. But im not the type to dismiss it just because i personally dont see how it can happen. If someone wants to be a guinea pig in the name of science then be my guest.

Oso
10-15-2004, 06:35 AM
Originally posted by emre
Pranayama and meditation can be dangerous if you do it incorrectly. Ever heard of something called the "Kundalini pyschosis"?


there's a fiction called "Kundalini Equation" by Steven Barnes. Barnes is a martial artist living in...crap, maybe Vancouver WA...

basically the main character develops Kundalini psychosis but becomes a bad ass fighter because of it.

it's a good read.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812531507/qid=1097847235/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-7644364-7375156?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

and cheap

Mr Punch
10-15-2004, 07:12 AM
Everybody's overlooked the basic differences: most yoga is based on seven chakra which are in a direct line from the crown to the perineum and does not feature any reference or obvious belief in meridians; most chikung works on five main energy points which although are on a similar line, according to the Chinese medicine classics are slightly off line, and centred on an extensive network of interconnecting meridians.

Consequently most yogic breathing is based on settling on one point or raising and sinking the breath along one line, whereas chikung follows an 'orbit'.

That's just the way I understand it, I may have some bits wrong. Now please go back to your scheduled bickering over whether you can go mad through these practises, though frankly, I think some of you are living proof! :D :p

Personally, I think breathing in a silly position can damage your muscles and therefore your organs, and therefore, if you are a little gullible/psychologically susceptible/unbalanced in the first place I see no reason why it shouldn't tip the balance even further... but no more than say, leaving a hat on the bed, or your Aunt Mabel turning out to be a man. But now I'm reverse breathing (blowing it out me ass)! :D That's probably cos I do full contact which I know can **** your head up! :D

Ai Lek Ou Seun
10-15-2004, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
People will believe what they want. Im not here to change anyones mind but he asked for opinions. You can find books written by dozens of different Yogis saying the same. Thats all i can go by. Im not gonna try to find out for myself for obvious reasons. Now if you want, you can argue with them about what they've practiced all their lives. Other Yogi think that its not possible. No one agrees 100% on most things. But im not the type to dismiss it just because i personally dont see how it can happen. If someone wants to be a guinea pig in the name of science then be my guest.

Personally, I think they all say that kind of stuff because it makes there meditation seem more powerful and mystical.

Like...

"ooooh....if you do that incorrectly it can make you go crazy...look how powerful it must be."

There are lots of things you do that can cause a kind of temporary psychosis. For example, sensory deprivation can cause you to basically go on an LSD-like trip.

Does that imply anything mystical?

Not really. It's been studied scientifically and theres a simple explanation not requiring the supernatural.

FuXnDajenariht
10-15-2004, 12:16 PM
Heres the way i see it. These are the people who brought Yoga to the West and maybe they have something worth listening to or maybe. I wouldn't call them all complete liars though. The problem i think is even if there are scientific studies people still dont exactly know how it all works. You can say qiqong makes you healthier but no one agrees on how. I see it this way. If external energy (ex:radiation) can cause mutations (ex:cancer) in your bodies cells, then why can't you be affected internally? Of course you hafta assume that prana or chi exists in the first place if you practice qiqong. Thats just my "opinion" on it but im always looking for criticism. I'd rather know the truth than hold on to ideas that have no basis in reality.

FuXnDajenariht
10-15-2004, 12:19 PM
Its funny you bring up sensory deprivation because thats exactly what some forms of Indian meditation seek out to do.

Christopher M
10-15-2004, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by SevenStar
what is the difference in internal development between these two?

Hi. This is difficult to generalize on; firstly, because these terms encompass a diversity of practices, and secondly because there is considerable overlap between them. For instance, there are Buddhist qigongs which are almost indistinguishable from what might be called yoga; whereas, a more Taoist method might be somewhat different.

The Buddhist/yogic methods are relatively more forceful and isolated, compared to more natural and generalized Taoist methods. We could say that the Taoist methods are particularly good at building energy, as well as the awareness, control, and distribution thereof; while the more yogic methods are particularly good at binding or focusing existing energy in a certain way. For this reason, the latter can be thought of as more dangerous.

As far as "ending up in the same place," I think this is misleading. Do plyometrics and core strength exercises end you up in the same place? Well... they both make you stronger, but strength turns out to be a fairly nuanced thing when you start exploring it. There's no reason to imagine that psychological development is any different.

A distinction of interest to martial artists would be that there is a subset of qigong/neigong which is specifically oriented towards martially useful goals (beyond simply making you a more healthy person generally), but this isn't true of qigong generally. This is a somewhat distinct issue as it brings us into the vocabulary of the internal martial arts.

FuXnDajenariht
10-18-2004, 01:35 AM
How different can someone really be psychologically when they reach a certain point?

Anyway...... This link elaborates on what i mean by them being closely tied together.

http://www.acupuncture.com/QiKung/History.htm

Christopher M
10-18-2004, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
How different can someone really be psychologically when they reach a certain point?

At least as different as someone can be physically when they reach a certain point in physical conditioning, don't you think?

I'm sure the mind is nuanced enough to permit a wide spectrum of developmental possibilities.


This link elaborates on what i mean by them being closely tied together.

Sure. But pushups and jumping jacks are closely tied together too, but they still develop you in different ways.

FuXnDajenariht
10-18-2004, 12:52 PM
Yes they are 2 different exercises but the end result is that they both make a person healthier. Of course there are hundreds of different ways to build strength but no matter how nuanced they are it can only have so many results. I think the nuances have more to do with what muscles they work out than what they seek out to do. People a few hundred years ago didn't have a label for what we know as plyometrics, isometrics, core strength training etc. They did whatever exercises they knew about about or were available to them to build strength, and its probably safe to say some are more effective than others. I dont think they sought out to limit themselves though.

I also dont see how someone can be that different psychologically. Its on another level than your physical body. Even though our minds and personalities are all unique we still have the same emotions and instincts on a basic level. Psychologically i think its a case of someone being either mentally healthy or not. It just depends on how you define either. I know the mind can be developed different but thats like someone being gifted in music and another being able to speak many languages. I dont think thats what they mean by development though.

GeneChing
02-23-2011, 10:00 AM
Couldn't resist the that thread topic title. :o


Mat race? Qigong slowly but surely catching up with yoga (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Mat-race-Qigong-slowly-but-surely-catching-up-with-yoga/articleshow/7457964.cms)
TNN, Feb 9, 2011, 08.31am IST

WELLINGTON: Just as yoga became popular when the Beatles came to India, a 5,000-year-old Chinese energy cultivation system is poised to become the new kid on the block among rat racers hungry for a more serene form of fitness.

Sometimes called Chinese yoga, Qigong is a mind-body practice that melds slow graceful movements , mental focus and deep abdominal breathing to boost and balance a person's vital energy, or 'qi' .

"As China becomes more of a player in the world, Chinese practice is becoming more mainstream," Stuff.co.nz quoted Matthew Cohen, creator of the Tai Chi & Qi Gong Basics DVD, as saying. Cohen, an instructor at Sacred Energy Arts in Santa Monica, California, said unlike in India, yoga in the west has come to favour the athletic at the expense of the meditative.

"The world is getting more crowded, cars and computers getting faster," he said. "Qigong is about going slower, so internally you create space," he added. Tom Rogers, president of the Qigong Institute, a non-profit educational organisation, said Qigong is the precursor to all Chinese energy practices."Tai chi is the most well known moving form of Qigong. Kung fu is also a form of Qigong," Rogers said from his home in Los Altos, California.

The slow, spiral exercises of Qigong, such as rolling the ball or wave hands in the cloud, require no equipment, can be done anywhere, and are easy to learn. "I call it getting an MBA: movement, breathing and awareness," said Rogers. "One is adjusting your posture so energy flow is better; two is slow, deep, abdominal breathing; three is awareness , or trying to get thoughts out of your head," he added.

Jessica Matthews, an exercise physiologist with the American Council on Exercise, said research trials have reported statistically significant decreases in the incidence of stroke, decreased blood pressure, increase in bone density and improved effectiveness of cancer therapy among practitioners.

Hebrew Hammer
02-23-2011, 10:12 AM
So Gene do you have a preference? I've done both Qigong and Yoga, they both have there strengths, but I prefer Qigong as to me it is more meditative. I thought it was a brilliant counter balance to Choy Li Fut. Yoga is more athletic in nature, to me, which is good if you're the above choice isn't available to you. I do yoga to enhance and counter my 24hr Fatness gym work outs. I don't have any real experience with Tai Chi.

wenshu
02-23-2011, 10:43 AM
There are forms of yoga that could be classified as more meditative.

In the west when people speak of yoga they usually mean the Ashtanga vinyasa series.

Yoga is a broad discipline of self-cultivation; engaging in philosophical thinking is a form of yoga.

The parallels with qi gong are much deeper than may be immediately apparent. Not only qi gong, but gong fu as well.

The Science of Breath (http://www.way2bliss.com/science-of-breath.pdf)

GeneChing
02-23-2011, 01:29 PM
Well, of course I have a preference. I work for Kung Fu Tai Chi (http://www.martialartsmart.com/19341.html). I don't work for Yoga Journal. ;)

I've studied Yoga in Pune and Rishikesh, India. My wife is a former yoga instructor. Truth be told, I'd probably be in better overall health if my practice was yoga, but I like qigong because it's more connected to martial arts. I like weapons and I like to fight. You just don't get that in yoga. ;)

@wenshu, you are totally right. Yoga embraces a wide variety of spiritual disciplines. The postures are just one branch - asana yoga.

Lucas
02-23-2011, 03:28 PM
:Di think qigong will win in the 3rd via gnp.

Vajramusti
02-23-2011, 08:18 PM
Doesn't have to be qigong versus yoga. There are different kinds of qigong and different kinds of yoga.

Yoga can be a prelude to meditation. Also. many traditional Indian martial routines were/are based on yoga.

joy chaudhuri

Hebrew Hammer
02-23-2011, 11:14 PM
Doesn't have to be qigong versus yoga. There are different kinds of qigong and different kinds of yoga.

Yoga can be a prelude to meditation. Also. many traditional Indian martial routines were/are based on yoga.

joy chaudhuri

Said like a true Yogi...

Sal Canzonieri
02-27-2011, 01:53 PM
There's been a group of these "introducing Qigong" articles and press releases.

I think that people are finally starting to be interested in it.

I know if the 10 different locations that I teach, it is mostly people that used to do Yoga that attend my Qigong classes.
At least they already know how to do abdominal breathing and have practiced some patience.

GeneChing
05-06-2014, 07:47 AM
Not even. Why would any qigong instructor make such an ignorant statement? It totally invalidates them as they are clearly out of touch with the the status of yoga vs. qigong in pop culture. :rolleyes:


'Qigong' becoming almost as popular as yoga, instructors say (http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/05/-qigong-becoming-almost-as-popular-as-yoga-instructors-say-102809.html)
By Horace Holmes May 5, 2014 - 04:06 pm

SILVER SPRING, Md. (WJLA) - On this warm and sunny afternoon, people of all ages and walks of life have packed into a large martial arts studio in Silver Spring not to learn self-defense - but to learn to manage their chi.

Continue reading
"Chi" is a Chinese word for energy. The class is on how to manage one's chi.

"It's not easy to see it, but you can feel it," explains the teacher, Shuren Ma.

An ancient Chinese practice called "qigong," the only sound you'll hear is Ma's voice as she leads students through slow exercise movements and visualizations.

Ma helped bring qigong to the Washington area 33 years ago when he moved here from China. Just about two to three years ago, he started seeing his classes fill up, as people like William Pettiford, who came suffering from lymphoma.

Pettiford says practicing qigong has been helping him heal.

"It was like someone taking a straw and putting it down my throat, and it just opened up," he said.

Ma says, in an often high-stress area like Washington, qigong can make a big difference for many people.

"It's a wonderful relaxation process. Especially in a society with so much stress - you need tools to manage that stress," he said. "It can make them healthier, support their immune systems, and bring balance and harmony."

Regular attendee Carolina Esteva agrees.

"If you feel any pain or if you have something that is bothering you or you are stressed, whenever you take this class, it is really great," Esteva said.

Eve Soldinger is a medical qigong practitioner and a licensed acupuncturist who leads patients through meditation and mystical movements called "Managing the Chi."

Catalina Schrader suffers from pain due to a torn Achilles tendon.

"When I come it really rearranges my energy," she explained. "It feels different once I'm done."

Doctors from Georgetown University to the University of California and Harvard are studying qigong. While they won't support claims it can miraculously heal diseases like cancer, studies do show the meditation and slow, repetitive movements of qigong can help with depression and in lowering blood pressure.

"Those who teach qigong say it is bcoming so popular that very soon it will be like yoga, where there are studios and classes being offered just about everywhere," said Soldinger.

"If it's good enough for the chinese for 2,000 years, it's good enough for us here, right?" said loyal attendee Albert Zara.

David Jamieson
05-06-2014, 12:56 PM
Yoga is super popular.

Qigong is just weird to most people. lol.

Plus, it is presented so vaguely when it's in the context of setting up some wellness classes etc.

"Qi is energy, blah blah blah"... :rolleyes:

If I had my way, meditation would be promoted as "seated quiet time" and qigong would be promoted as working on "body movement and breathing" together.
The terminology is what maks people stuck in their minds. Presented in teh right frame of cultural context and boom! You can make it popular.

Faux Newbie
05-07-2014, 12:34 PM
I like qigong for the practice, and yoga for the pants.

Blacktiger
05-07-2014, 11:53 PM
Alot of Yoga people starting to come across to Qigong these days in Oz...

See it alot, Yoga practitioners that have been training for 15-20+ years and get the light bulb moment after their first class.

Im also starting to do alot of health and wellbeing programs for businesses and their staff with Qigong - they love it!

GeneChing
07-01-2015, 08:59 AM
China's ancient form of mind-body aligning exercise Qigong a challenge for Yoga? (http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2015-06-24/news/63783096_1_yoga-gurus-china-regulated-breathing)
ET Bureau Jun 24, 2015, 05.31AM IST

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/photo/47793636.cms
(It is not surprising that…)
With yoga hogging so much of the limelight around the world — that too on the longest day of the year — a suitable riposte from China is awaited. After all, as India claims first dibs on this au courant wellness art and science, China may think it is high time to put yoga on the mat with qigong (cheegong), its own 4,000-year-old healing technique apparently practised by 80 million people there.

While it has not yet caught the fancy of San Francisco or colonised Times Square on the summer solstice, qigong, with adherents in 29 other countries, already could pose a challenge to yoga. But as qigong seems suspiciously like yoga, given that it comprises exercises and postures, regulated breathing, meditation and massage, and is said to calm the mind and tone the body, confucian is practically guaranteed.

It is not surprising that people have begun to call qigong 'Chinese yoga'; hitting back by calling yoga 'Indian qigong' simply does not have the same impact yet. Besides, China will also have to deal with the possibility of yoga gurus deciding — as per hoary Indian tradition — to assimilate qigong as a form of pranayama, before China claims exactly the opposite as part of its general thesis that everything of relevance actually originated in that country. Both sides would be stretching it a bit, but then that's par for the course.

Funny, I was just having a conversation with one of my shimei about this very topic last night after practice.

David Jamieson
07-02-2015, 12:56 PM
I guess the whole competition thing between India and China as cultures is in play here.

Oh well. Personally, I don't find Qi-Gong to be like Yoga in many regards. Though they do have some similar connections (breath, movement etc) they are quite different.

I practice Yoga, I practice chi kung, I practice Kung Fu, I practice boxing, I practice guitar too! and piano! lol.
It's all good. But beef claiming it's chicken and chicken claiming it's beef is silly. :D

GeneChing
08-12-2015, 08:27 AM
This HuffPost blog has a cute hook, but I'm not sure it works for me. Besides, there's the whole field of hard (or martial) qigong, which I would argue is far more 'flashy' than Yoga. And when it comes to sexy, there's Jade Egg (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67255-Jade-Egg) and Iron Crotch (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?39311-The-Iron-Crotch-of-GM-Tu-Jin-Sheng). ;)


10 Reasons to Get to Know Qigong: Yoga's Less Popular Cousin (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brodie-welch-lac-msom/10-reasons-to-get-to-know_b_7942018.html)
Posted: 08/10/2015 2:24 pm EDT Updated: 08/10/2015 2:59 pm EDT

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2015-08-05-1438810649-8960633-BrodieCutoutlogocopy-thumb.jpg

If you're looking to boost your energy and calm your mind, I know someone you've got to meet: her name is Qigong. She's Yoga and Meditation's less-sexy, easy-to-underestimate cousin -- and she's amazing.

Qigong (pronounced "chee gung") is originally from China and her name means "energy exercise." Like her Indian cousin Yoga, Qigong links up the body, breath, and intention. She's less flashy than her cousin Yoga. But don't overlook her -- those still waters run deep.

Here are 10 reasons why you'll love getting to know Qigong:

1. She's an incredible healer. She can reduce arthritis, chronic pain, high blood pressure, fatigue, diabetes, and cancer side effects, while boosting your immunity, energy, bone density, sleep, mood, and balance. She's even got the studies to prove it.

2. She's over 3000 years old and still looks great. She's got gorgeous curves. Unlike the straight lines of her angular cousin Yoga, Qigong moves in circles and spirals: she flows.

3. She's unpretentious. There's nothing showy about her. Her movements are slow, mindful, graceful, and powerful. While she's great at building strength and balance, her moves aren't particularly difficult, and you probably won't see her on the cover of a glossy magazine sporting lululemon. No stretchy pants are required to hang with her.

4. She's energizing. After spending time with her, you'll likely feel strong and more mobile throughout your day.

5. She's easy to be with. Unlike her cousin Meditation (who's awesome, but let's face it, can be kind of uptight sometimes), Qigong doesn't ask you to sit there and try to not pay attention to your thoughts. Instead, she helps the mind and nervous system to settle down by giving you lots to pay attention to, like your breath, and simple movements that repeat.

6. She'll help you relax. She can help tame anxiety and stress. You might even sleep better.

7. She'll help you get out of your head better than Yoga. Don't get me wrong: I'll love Yoga forever, but a lot of what she does is so challenging that it often feels like a "mind-over-body" practice rather than one of mind-body unity. It can be hard to get in touch with your body while at the same time trying to dominate it. With Qigong, the struggle to do it "right" or make it look like someone else's practice goes away. The simplicity of the movements makes it easy to feel the qi flowing in your body and between your hands.

8. She'll make you feel good. She'll love you no matter how strong or how flexible you are, and you'll love her back.

9. She'll help you love your body. Rather than seeing the body as something you need to ignore or transcend (like Meditation sometimes says), Qigong encourages you to tune into the body as a focal point for concentration. Your body becomes a portal for tuning into the more subtle layers. (So she's kind of a feminist -- none of that "body is dirty and mundane" baggage here.)

10. She's sophisticated. She's got different routines designed to support each system of the body. She'll even teach you some points that acupuncturists use to get qi to move properly.

Follow Brodie Welch, L.Ac., M.S.O.M. on Twitter: www.twitter.com/brodiewelch

GeneChing
09-16-2016, 09:07 AM
http://i0.wp.com/thecostaricanews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/mountain.jpeg?resize=890%2C593

QIGONG WILL BE EVEN BIGGER THAN YOGA (http://thecostaricanews.com/fit/qigong-even-bigger-yoga/)
Reasons why Qigong will become even more popular.

By TCRN STAFF - Sep 16, 201654 0

Not too long ago, not many people had heard of qigong, an ancient form of exercise used in China for centuries. While it is not as widely recognized as yoga, awareness is growing. Over time it will continue to grow in popularity as more learn of the myriad of benefits that can be achieved.

http://i0.wp.com/thecostaricanews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/sunset-2.jpg?resize=632%2C420
Meditating by sunset

Some Qigong masters even believe that it will grow to become more popular than yoga. Here’s why:

It is easier than yoga. Absolutely everyone can learn and become proficient in qigong, from extreme athletes to extreme couch potatoes. All ages can benefit. These exercises can be done sitting, in a wheelchair, and even those with disabilities. The only prerequisite for success is a strong desire to practice for 15 minutes a day (or more).

http://i0.wp.com/thecostaricanews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/pexels-photo-24746-large.jpg?resize=630%2C420
Qigong can be easy.

It is easier than tai chi. Although tai chi has been practiced in the US for over 50 years, it never achieved the same boom as yoga. Many people have found tai chi to be rather intimidating, confusing, frustrating, and stressful. Compared to tai chi, there is no need to memorize long, complex routines, or the martial aspects of the art. It allows you to dive immediately into the meditative and energetic aspects of the art, which is also what brings you quick results.

It is challenging. The art of qigong can grow with you as you become more proficient and comfortable. It can start with physically easy exercises, and then increase the level of difficulty once you are ready to be more challenged, both physically and mentally. There are appropriate techniques you can use whether you are ill, out of shape, or even an Olympic athlete looking to improve.

http://i2.wp.com/thecostaricanews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Swallow-Flying-through-Clouds.png?resize=630%2C420
‘Swallow flying through clouds’ Qigong pose

It is medicine. There are many things you can do to improve your health such as yoga, but even just walking or laughing helps too. But what makes qigong unique is that it was actually engineered to be medicine. In China, there are entire hospital wings dedicated to the practice of qigong.

It is complementary. Qigong can greatly complement many other forms of healing such as acupuncture, massage therapy, chiropractic, reiki, even psychologists and nutritionists use elements of qigong in their practice.

It is empowering. Qigong doesn’t require physical strength or flexibility to receive positive benefits. An exercise program that doesn’t need brawn for success is empowering to women, to the physically unfit, to the disabled, to children, and to those smaller-sized folk.

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Time Magazine cover

The world is ready for mindfulness. Time Magazine has even highlighted the growing importance of mindfulness in the North American lifestyle and business arena. Major corporations are now talking about mindfulness these days. Qigong has long been known as a traditional form of mindfulness meditation.

It is accessible. You actually need very little training to start getting remarkable results with qigong. Within a quick 3-hour class, you can learn enough to take home, practice on your own, and gain all sorts of health benefits. Compared to some of the other martial art forms and exercise programs, qigong emphasizes internal aspects like mindfulness, breath, and energy flow rather than physical postures and alignment.

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‘Pushing Mountain’ Qigong pose

It flows. Performing a simply exercise repeatedly allows you to forget about the form itself, and instead focus on the internal aspects. Repeating a form up to 20 times creates a wonderfully enjoyable flow that is different from yoga.

People are learning Chinese. China is becoming a powerhouse on the world stage and in business. Even high school students are studying Chinese in order to be prepared for the changing world. As Westerners learn to speak and read Chinese, the qigong and tai chi classics will become better studied and translated. This will only serve to strengthen the art of qigong.

It’s all about the qi. (pronounced ‘chee’) We are becoming more and more awareness of the importance of chi energy, or vital energy, for over-all good health and well-being. Although this exercise practice is historically Chinese, it is a phenomenon that transcends culture. More and more are becoming interested in learning about the ancient art of cultivating chi.

It is spiritual. Qigong is a wonderfully practical tool to work on your spiritual health and well-being, in fact, it is not associated with any religious background. It allows us to heal not just our body, not just our mind, and not even just our spirit — but rather the combination of all three. Some wellness practitioners set up practices that require exercises that focus on the mental/emotional/spiritual blockages to achieve good health.

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Tibetan monks in qigong pose.

It supercharges sitting meditation. According to legend, monks who spent hours in sitting meditations were found to be sick, weak, and unable to go deeply into their mediation practices. Until they added qigong to their spiritual practice, and went on to be some of the best meditators in history. Many people are finding they are not getting the rewards they are seeking just from sitting meditation.

It is a quicker path to healing. Because it is designed as a form of medicine, qigong can be a faster path to achieving the health benefits that you want. Even those who have practiced yoga for years are now turning to qigong.
If you practice for 15 minutes/day, you will achieve great results in just weeks. If you can make the time for 15 minutes twice a day, you will see truly remarkable results!

Tibetan monks in qigong pose :rolleyes:

GeneChing
02-09-2017, 08:44 AM
16 Reasons Qigong Will Be Bigger Than Yoga in 16 Years (http://www.theearthchild.co.za/16-reasons-qigong-will-be-bigger-than-yoga-in-16-years/)
by Sifu Anthony Korahais

“Maybe if I spell it differently,” I thought. “Maybe that will attract more people to my qigong classes!”

Qi Gong. Chi Kung. Chi Gong. Qigong.

I tried different spellings on different brochures.

I quickly learned that the spelling wasn’t the problem.

The problem was that Americans had never heard of such a thing as qigong.

I considered using the words “tai chi” instead. After all, there’s a ton of overlap between the two arts. And of course I also practice tai chi.

But the qigong that I teach is significantly different than the tai chi that is commonly practiced. I wanted to differentiate between the two, so I continued to use the word “qigong”.

Zoom ahead 12 years into my teaching career, and the world has changed.

Today, the word qigong — however you choose to spell it — is much more widely recognized.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say that it’s widely recognized.

Most Americans still haven’t heard of it. But awareness is growing, and that’s a wonderful thing.

(Note: if you are new to qigong, then I recommend you read my article: The 15 Most Frequently Asked Questions about Qigong )

Change takes time. It took time for yoga to become the billion-dollar, global industry that it is today.

But I believe that if you give qigong a little time, it will be huge.

In fact, I think qigong will be bigger than yoga one day. Here’s why:

1. Qigong is easier than yoga.

Qigong is accessible to absolutely everyone. I’ve taught extreme athletes, and extreme couch potatoes. I’ve taught 20-somethings and 80-somethings. I’ve taught disabled veterans and marathoners (and also disabled marathoners).

For example, the picture above shows the exercise called Pushing Mountains, which involves gently moving your palms back and forth in a flowing manner, and coordinating your breath with the movement.

Anyone can do this exercise. It can be done sitting, it can be done in a wheelchair, and it can even be done with one arm.

There is only 1 prerequisite for success with qigong: a strong desire to practice for 15 minutes a day (or more).

I probably don’t need the rest of this list. This reason is enough to explain why qigong will explode in popularity.

2. Qigong is easier than tai chi.

There are many reasons why the art of tai chi didn’t experience the same boom as yoga, despite it being practiced in the US for over 50 years.

In my experience, the biggest reason is this: people are intimidated by tai chi.

I can’t tell you how many students have come to me over the years telling me that they previously tried tai chi, but found it confusing, frustrating, and stressful.

With qigong, you don’t need to memorize long, complex routines. Nor do you need to worry about the martial aspects of the art.

Qigong allows you to dive immediately into the meditative and energetic aspects of the art, which is also what brings you quick results.

3. Qigong is challenging.

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A challenging qigong pattern called “Swallow Flying through Clouds”
Although some qigong exercises are physically easy, other exercises are incredibly challenging — both physically and mentally.

Because there are so many different qigong techniques, it’s easy to raise the difficulty level for those who are ready.

Just as there are techniques that are appropriate for those who are ill or out of shape, there are also techniques that even an olympic athlete would find challenging.

And this is wonderful because it means that the art of qigong can grow with us.

4. Qigong is medicine.

Yes, yoga can be medicine. And so can walking. And so can laughter.

But qigong is unique in that it was actually engineered to be medicine.

(Note: Not all styles of qigong were designed to be medicine. For example, Iron Shirt Qigong is not meant to be medicine, although it can have therapeutic effects.)

Qigong is a branch of Traditional Chinese Medicine, along with acupuncture and Chinese Herbal Medicine.

In China, you can find qigong in the hospitals. In fact, in some hospitals there’s an entire qigong wing!

5. Qigong is complementary.

If you see an acupuncturist in the United States, you will often be prescribed both herbs and acupuncture.

This is because the two forms of medicine compliment each other well.

Perhaps the main reason why qigong is so complementary is because you can take it home and use it safely on your own — something that isn’t possible with most forms of medicine.

Over the years, I have collaborated with acupuncturists, massage therapists, chiropractors, psychologists, MDs, reiki healers, osteopaths, and nutritionists.

I have seen with my own eyes how qigong can greatly complement other forms of healing.

6. Qigong is empowering.

Yoga is empowering too. But unlike yoga, Qigong doesn’t require physical strength or flexibility.

In fact, too much physical strength can be a hindrance with qigong. Body builders, for example, often struggle to relax the muscles and let go of deeper layers of tension.

An art that doesn’t need brawn for success is empowering to women, to the physically unfit, to the disabled, to children, and to smaller-sized men like myself.

7. The world is ready for mindfulness.

time-magazine-mindfulness

Mindfulness and meditation have been on the cover of Time Magazine several times.

Even major corporations are talking about mindfulness these days.

The world is falling in love with mindfulness, and this is a beautiful thing.

Wait — didn’t you know that qigong is a traditional form of mindfulness meditation?

It is.

If you’d like to learn more about the connection between qigong and mindfulness, then read my article: 5 Things You Should Know About the Mindfulness Craze

8. Qigong is fun.

I imagine that yoga is fun for many people. I prefer qigong.

Let’s call this one a tie.

9. Qigong is accessible.

Compared to other arts, you actually need very little training to start getting remarkable results with qigong.

This is because qigong emphasizes internal aspects like mindfulness, breath, and energy flow rather than physical postures and alignment.

I can train a fresh beginner to start getting amazing results in just 3 hours.

In fact, I’ve watched many students learn from me for only 3 hours, but then continue to practice on their own and get all sorts of wonderful health benefits. continued next post

GeneChing
02-09-2017, 08:44 AM
10. Qigong flows.

With yoga, you don’t usually take a single exercise and do it 20 times in a row.

With qigong, this is the norm.

Repeating a simple, flowing exercise like Lifting the Sky 20 times allows you to forget about the form, and instead focus on the internal aspects.

This creates a wonderfully enjoyable flow when practicing qigong.

11. People are learning Chinese.

This reason is probably unexpected, but I think it is significant.

The world is changing, and the East is becoming a powerhouse, especially China.

People are learning Chinese in order to do business with China.

Heck, my nephew learned Chinese in middle school!

If you can speak and read traditional Chinese, then you can make the leap to classical Chinese easily.

As Westerners learn to speak and read Chinese, the qigong and tai chi classics will become better studied and translated.

This will only serve to strengthen the art of qigong.

I think it’s only a matter of time before we start seeing pop psych books about applying the Qigong and Tai Chi classics to business and relationships!

12. It’s all about the qi.

There is a growing awareness about acupuncture, Chinese herbal medicine, and feng shui.

In all of these arts, qi is the star.

Although the concept of qi is historically Chinese, it is a phenomenon that transcends culture. It’s all qi — whether you call it qi, or prana, or vital energy.

I believe that, in the 21st century, humans will start to see that it’s all about the qi.

And once they do, it’s natural for them to become interested in the ancient art of cultivating the qi — qigong!

13. Tai chi is empty without qigong.

Although tai chi is more widely known in the US, it is often devoid of real qi cultivation. This is unfortunate.

Tai chi is a martial art that should have the concept of qi as a central training tool.

Many people practice only the external, physical aspects of tai chi, and these people are becoming increasingly interested in qigong to supplement their tai chi training.

14. Qigong is spiritual.

Both qigong and yoga can be used to cultivate spirituality regardless of your religious background.

In fact, I’ve taught religious leaders from all of the major world traditions — and none of them had any issues with practicing qigong.

Qigong gives us a wonderful and practical way to work on spirituality.

It allows us to heal not just our body, not just our mind, and not even just our spirit — but rather the combination of all three.

Qigong is all about unifying mind, body, and spirit, not separating them.

For example, some stubborn medical ailments will actually required that you practice exercises that work on mental/emotional/spiritual blockages.

15. Qigong supercharges sitting meditation.

shutterstock_73873177

Legend has it that Bodhidharma arrived at the Shaolin Temple only to find that the monks were sick, weak, and unable to go deeply into their sitting meditation.

To solve the problem, he taught them qigong.

And it worked. The Shaolin Monks turned into some of the best meditators in history, not to mention some of the best kung fu masters.

In my experience, the same phenomenon is happening today. People are practicing sitting meditation, but not reaping the rewards that they deserve.

Simply adding a daily qigong practice can supercharge your meditation, just like it did for the Shaolin Monks 1500 years ago.

16. Qigong is a quicker path to healing.

More than ever, people are looking for fast and effective forms of healing.

Many of these people end up finding qigong — even if they had previously practiced yoga for many years.

Because it is designed as a form of medicine, qigong can be a faster path to getting the results that you want.

If you get good instruction and then practice for 15-minutes per day, you will see good results within weeks, if not days.

And if you practice 15 minutes twice daily, then you’ll see truly remarkable results!

Conclusion

There you have it. That’s why I believe that qigong will be bigger than yoga in 10-20 years.

What do you think? Did I miss any reasons? Do you agree or disagree with my argument?

As always, I’d love to hear from you in the comments below.

Mindfully yours,
Sifu Anthony

I’m Anthony Korahais, and I used qigong to heal from clinical depression, low back pain, anxiety, and chronic fatigue. I’ve already taught thousands of people from all over the world to use qigong for their own stubborn health issues. I teach online courses, and also lead in-person retreats and workshops.

Usually I don't post op-ed blogs by various masters because there's so many of them, but I'm a little weary of Jade Egg (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67255-Jade-Egg&p=1299847) dominating this subforum for so long...(Sure, I've posted the most about it, but can you blame me?)

GeneChing
07-21-2017, 09:23 AM
I missed the 'zen master' part before.


Could qigong be the next yoga? (http://www.grindtv.com/wellness/could-qigong-be-the-next-yoga/)
July 20, 2017 By Julie Kailus

Zen master and blogger Anthony Korahais thinks so.

“Once people start to realize what qigong [pronounced chee-gong] can really do — help you get to peak performance and stay there — then everyone will be using it,” Korahais, who first used the practice to heal debilitating anxiety and clinical depression, tells GrindTV.

But what is it? Think of qigong as the grandmother of tai chi, an ancient Asian practice — and one of the four branches of traditional Chinese medicine — that combines gentle breathing, flowing movements and mindfulness meditation.

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Qigong is both an easier alternative to yoga as well as physically and mentally challenging in its own way. Photo: Kyson Dana/Unsplash

Followers like the simple practice for a variety of reasons, including its purported ability to restore wellness, build mental and emotional strength, reduce stress and increase vitality.

“Qigong gets your energy, your qi, flowing better. This isn’t mystical. When your energy is flowing better, your immune system functions better, your inflammation goes down, your lymph fluid cleans out the toxic junk faster,” Korahais says.

So why is this a “well-kept secret among amateur and pro athletes,” according to Korahais, that no one else has heard of it?

“Martial artists were the stewards of qigong for many years, and they were notoriously secretive of their skills. Their lives depended on their art, and they kept the secrets closely guarded,” says Korahais, whose international organization Flowing Zen has certified 25 qigong instructors.

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Anthony Korahais performs a flowing movement in a video about qigong. Photo: Courtesy of Flowing Zen

“Even today,” he continues, “it’s hard to find a genuine teacher. You find more and more teachers, but they don’t have much training, so their students don’t get the spectacular results that some people get.”

Some professional athletes are already tapping the secret sauce, like Korahais’ extreme-runner student. “He does these Spartan and death races where you run for 24 hours or more, carrying your food, doing challenges, overcoming obstacles. He has a pile of medals in races where only 10 percent of the runners even finish.

“Qigong is his secret weapon. He says the biggest benefit is that it helps him stay focused and relaxed, but that it also helps him be more resilient, avoid injuries or heal faster if he does get injured.”

Everyday athletes stand to gain a lot from qigong too, says Korahais: “I think it’s especially important for weekend warriors because we tend to overdo it. Qigong can help us build resiliency, like when we were younger.”

If a flowing fountain of youth isn’t enough to make you want to dig deeper into qigong, these benefits, part of a book Korahais is writing on “the next yoga,” just might.

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Is qigong truly energy, healing and mindfulness in one package? Photo: Courtesy of Flowing Zen

It’s accessible to all: You don’t need much training to start. Korahais says he can train a beginner to start seeing results in a little as three hours.

It’s a fast path to healing: Following solid instruction, just 15 minutes of qigong a day can lead to noticeable changes in health and wellness, promises Korahais.

It’s easier than yoga or tai chi: One movement called “pushing mountains” requires nothing more than gently moving your palms back and forth in a flowing manner while coordinating your breath with the movement.

It’s mindfulness and medicine: You’ve seen the cover of Time: The world is ready for mindfulness. Qigong facilitates this practice. Plus, like acupuncture, qigong started as a branch of traditional Chinese medicine. Some hospitals in China dedicate an entire wing to qigong.

It can grow with you: Some qigong techniques are incredibly challenging, physically and mentally, and can be raised to a level that even an Olympic athlete would find difficult, according to Korahais.