PDA

View Full Version : What the world thinks of America



Serpent
06-17-2003, 10:15 PM
Based on recent discussions we've had here, this is interesting reading.

Article. (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/18/1055828369062.html)

Kristoffer
06-18-2003, 05:48 AM
gonna read it l8r

ewallace
06-18-2003, 06:11 AM
The BBC emphasised that its poll is not a representative sampling of world opinion, but only of opinion in Australia, Brazil, Britain Canada, France, Indonesia, Israel, Jordan, Russia, South Korea and the United States.
Open your eyes.

Get out of your shell.

And for God sakes get over it.

I think Serpent has some type of American ***** envy.

Kristoffer
06-18-2003, 06:23 AM
uhh.. I don't really see the point of this article. I'm sure most americans already know that ppl look down on them. And those who do look down on them know that the americans don't really care. (and looks down on them :D )


I sense a huge political thread of this ****.. I'm outta here :rolleyes:

monkey mind
06-18-2003, 12:06 PM
Let's make a distinction here between American people and the American government (executive branch especially). I just got back from 1 month in Thailand where I spoke with many Thais & Europeans about the face the US shows to the world. There was near unanimous agreement - American people & many private American organizations (charities, ngo's) are generally well liked. The American government, Bush especially, is not well liked. He is seen as an arrogant, spoiled cowboy. And I was pleased to learn that many people around the world know that lots of Americans share that view.

Black Jack
06-18-2003, 12:11 PM
Number one is that a lot of Americans do not share that viewpoint. So you were just misleading them or if you want to cut straight to the point just downright lying. Many Americans support president Bush and his adminstration.

Check out the polls. Support is still very strong.

What is "many" anyway????

A group of protesting beatnicks in faded hemp shorts, dirty tee-shirts, and unwashed hair, standing on the sidewalk, talking out their ass but really only wishing to get out of the cold, jump into their yuppy sports car, and go masturbate a fern.

MasterKiller
06-18-2003, 12:16 PM
Check out the polls. Support is still very strong.

Daddy Bush was ahead in the polls right up until election day. Hopefully, history will repeat itself.

Black Jack
06-18-2003, 12:18 PM
Time will tell.

Budokan
06-18-2003, 12:21 PM
Forget America. What does the world think of Pitcairn Isand? That's the burning question that needs to be answered.

SaMantis
06-18-2003, 12:24 PM
Pitcairn Island? Bunch of **** losers, that's what. Pitcairners will be the death of us all, I tells ya!!



:D

MasterKiller
06-18-2003, 12:26 PM
I hear they have Weapons of Mass Destruction....oh wait, those are honey bees. No matter, those bees are a threat to our liberty.

Budokan
06-18-2003, 12:28 PM
And while we're at it we need to keep a closer eye on those South American pygmies. I don't trust those little f*ckers, either, hiding as they do in their rain forests. Perhaps it's about time we scrape the rain forests from the face of the earth so we can see what those little runts have really been up to...

So sayeth Budokan.

Brad
06-18-2003, 12:47 PM
I hear they have Weapons of Mass Destruction....oh wait, those are honey bees. No matter, those bees are a threat to our liberty.
Are you sure they're honey and not KILLER BEES?! It's a terrorist plot I tell ya... we should drop a Geraldo on them.

Spark
06-18-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Black Jack


Check out the polls. Support is still very strong.



Yeah, and who exactly were polled? All 250 million americans? Sure :rolleyes:

MasterKiller
06-18-2003, 12:57 PM
Now, Spark, do you really think the media would lie about something like that? The media? C'mon....they kept us so informed throughout the war. Why, I didn't even see one dead American on TV, so I know we must have kicked @ss.

Laughing Cow
06-18-2003, 12:57 PM
Interesting findings.

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Jun/06152003/nation_w/66319.asp




Many Misinformed About Iraq, Sept. 11 Attacks


By Frank Davies
Knight Ridder News Service

WASHINGTON -- A third of the American public believes U.S. forces found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, according to a recent poll. And 22 percent said Iraq actually used chemical or biological weapons.
Before the war, half of those polled in a survey said Iraqis were among the 19 hijackers on Sept. 11, 2001.
But such weapons have not been found in Iraq, and were never used. Most of the Sept. 11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. None of them were Iraqis.
These results startled the pollsters who conducted and analyzed the surveys.
"It's a striking finding," said Steve Kull, director of the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, which asked the weapons questions during a May 14-18 poll of 1,256 respondents.
He added, "Given the intensive news coverage and high levels of public attention, this level of misinformation suggests some Americans may be avoiding having an experience of cognitive dissonance."
That is, having their beliefs conflict with the facts.
Kull added that the poll's data showed that the mistaken belief that weapons of mass destruction had been found "is substantially greater among those who favored the war."
Pollsters and political analysts see several reasons for the gaps between facts and beliefs: the public's short attention span on foreign news, fragmentary or conflicting media reports that lacked depth or skepticism, and White House efforts to sell war by oversimplifying the threat.
Before the war, the U.S. media often reported as fact the assertions by the Bush administration that Iraq possessed large stockpiles of illegal weapons. CBS News in December reported how Bush officials were "threatening war against Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction."
During and after the war, reports of weapons discoveries were often trumpeted on front pages, while follow-up stories debunking the "smoking gun" reports received less attention.
"There were so many reports and claims before the war, it was easy to be confused," said Larry Hugick, chairman of Princeton Survey Research Associates. "But people expected the worst from [Iraqi President] Saddam Hussein and made connections based on the administration's policy."
Bush has described the pre-emptive attack on Iraq as "one victory in the war on terror that began Sept. 11." Bush officials also claim that Iraq sheltered and helped al-Qaida operatives.
"The public is susceptible to manipulation, and if they hear officials saying there is a strong connection between Iraq and al-Qaida terrorists, then they think there must be a connection," said Thomas Mann, a scholar at the Brookings Institution, a centrist-liberal think tank.
While Bush critics see an effort to mislead the public, some analysts say Bush has been following a long presidential history of framing a foreign crisis for maximum domestic benefit.
"I'm not going to defend the president, but a policy of pre-emptive attacks sure looks better after this country has been hit hard," said Sam Popkin, a polling expert at the University of California at San Diego who has advised Democratic candidates.
Polls show strong support for Bush and the war, although 40 percent in the May survey found U.S. officials were "misleading" in some of their justifications for war. A majority, 55 percent, said they were not misleading.
"People supported the war for national security reasons and that shifted to humanitarian reasons when they saw evidence of Saddam's atrocities," said Republican strategist Frank Luntz. "There's an assumption these weapons will be found because this guy was doing so many bad things."

Royal Dragon
06-18-2003, 01:08 PM
we should drop a Geraldo on them

LOL!!!! :eek: :p

Marky
06-18-2003, 02:14 PM
In a statistical model, a person might sample every hundredth "item" (in this case, a human's opinion) as an experimental unit. Considering the numbers involved, getting the opinions of 11,000 humans is the equivalent of using every 545,000th "item". It's safe to say that the poll was a complete waste of time (along with any other world-scale opinion poll). It's just not possible to poll enough people to have a totally unbiased model, which is too bad.

Laughing Cow
06-18-2003, 02:22 PM
Marky.

Those polls are designed to work as an indicator of public opinions only.
Funnily that poll co-incides with national polls done on the same subject.

Statitics by default are prone to error and mis-interpretation.

You will need atleast 3 independant polls to compare results and come to a conclusion.

Marky
06-18-2003, 02:45 PM
Hi LC,

I understand what the poll is designed for, but it simply can't serve it's purpose. When they say "60% of those who were surveyed dislike the US", the fact that's being stated is "at least 1 out of every 909,100 people dislike the US". It's likely that many more than that dislike the US, but they didn't survey enough people to show that! They can't survey EVERYONE, but to survey 1/545,000th of a population and call a poll unbiased is just stupid.

I'm a mathematician, and one thing I CANNOT STAND is a faulty statistical model (which shows just how insane and boring I am!). =)

With a good number of experimental units (about 60 million, in this case), then we would be able to see if the hypothesis is acceptable or not. We wouldn't need two more polls, since the entire point of the model is to determine statistical significance. However, several polls would be useful if you couldn't trust the poll-takers to be unbiased (which I wouldn't, unless I was the one doing it.... in which case, no one else would trust me!).

Unfortunately, most people who are called upon to design experiments have absolutely no idea how to do it well!

I guess it doesn't matter, since we'll all believe what we want anyway. I don't believe ANY polls, even the ones that coincide with my point of view. There are just as many liars on my side of the game as there are on the other side, after all.

Laughing Cow
06-18-2003, 02:50 PM
Marky.

Too true.

No disagreement from me.

Marky
06-18-2003, 02:58 PM
LC,

D@mn.

What can we argue about now? =)

Laughing Cow
06-18-2003, 04:16 PM
French Fries vs Freedom Fries??

Political arguments on here got boring too repetitive, you can already predict what other parties will say.
:(

jun_erh
06-18-2003, 05:39 PM
with an enviable economy

America is being crucified



"Are you still down?" -Tupac Shakur

Marky
06-18-2003, 06:00 PM
Hey LC,

I thought all that started because France changed its name to Freedom!

Laughing Cow
06-18-2003, 06:09 PM
Naah, it started because Bush got tired with the same old Menu and asked for a change of meals.

But the cook couldn't figure out to spell "pommes frites" and so renamed everything to "freedom". :D

BTW, did Bush ever receive the Bretzels that were collected for him in Europe, I think they collected about 4000.

David Jamieson
06-18-2003, 07:19 PM
People deny the facts because of their beliefs?

I've never heard of that before. It's amazing! :rolleyes:

lol

p.s In one poll, 38% of Americans didn't believe that there actually was a moon landing. This poll was run in 1999.

cheers

Laughing Cow
06-18-2003, 07:25 PM
Bretzel for Bush (http://www.bretzelforbush.com/eng/index.php)

Brad
06-18-2003, 07:58 PM
p.s In one poll, 38% of Americans didn't believe that there actually was a moon landing. This poll was run in 1999.

cheers
That was when Fox was running all those paranormal/paranoia shows because the year 2000 was coming up :D They had special hour long shows on whether the moon landing was a hoax :p

Xebsball
06-18-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Budokan
And while we're at it we need to keep a closer eye on those South American pygmies. I don't trust those little f*ckers, either, hiding as they do in their rain forests. Perhaps it's about time we scrape the rain forests from the face of the earth so we can see what those little runts have really been up to...

So sayeth Budokan.

Suck my d!ck, little dirty wh0re :)

Serpent
06-18-2003, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by ewallace

Open your eyes.

Get out of your shell.

And for God sakes get over it.

I think Serpent has some type of American ***** envy.

Yeah, that must be it.

:rolleyes:

Americans really should travel more.

Serpent
06-18-2003, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Black Jack
A group of protesting beatnicks in faded hemp shorts, dirty tee-shirts, and unwashed hair, standing on the sidewalk, talking out their ass but really only wishing to get out of the cold, jump into their yuppy sports car, and go masturbate a fern.

You see, your view of the "opposition" to your views is far more misinformed and emotional than their view of you.

Interesting, no?

Laughing Cow
06-18-2003, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Serpent

Americans really should travel more.

Nooo, don't let more of them out.
:D

I have seen enough of US Tourist in Asia to make me sick and grow hot under the collar.

Just watch them in Thailand and similar and their behaviour towards the locals.
:mad:

Serpent
06-18-2003, 09:35 PM
It's like that everywhere they go. It's part of what fuels the hatred. ;)

Ever noticed how you can spot an American tourist from a hundred paces, while every other race you have to speak to first? Except, perhaps, the Japanese.

Laughing Cow
06-18-2003, 09:42 PM
Japanese and Chinese always travel in large groups with plenty of flashes going off.
Tours are very cheap and the guides translate and take them to plenty of ex-pat shops.

American tourists in Europe are great fun, their jaws keep dropping.
;)

Black Jack
06-18-2003, 09:43 PM
Misinformed....no.

Sarcastic.....yes.

You being a gayblade aussie snob with SERIOUS american envy.....priceless.

You don't see Americans posting about your neck of the woods around these parts that often....if ever....but for some reason you and other certain other nimrods post an awful lot about mine........ :rolleyes:

joedoe
06-18-2003, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Black Jack
Misinformed....no.

Sarcastic.....yes.

You being a gayblade aussie snob with SERIOUS american envy.....priceless.

You don't see Americans posting about your neck of the woods around these parts that often....if ever....but for some reason you and other certain other nimrods post an awful lot about mine........ :rolleyes:

That is because Americans don't realise there is a world outside of the borders of the USA :D

Laughing Cow
06-18-2003, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Black Jack
You don't see Americans posting about your neck of the woods around these parts that often....if ever....but for some reason you and other certain other nimrods post an awful lot about mine........ :rolleyes:

Maybe because you guys react so nicely to our posts.
:D

Very predictable.
As for envy, hrrmmmpppfff HAHAHA.

You guys kill me.
j/k of course.

Serpent
06-18-2003, 09:49 PM
Ah, Blackjack, you're like a clockwork toy. Wind him up and off he goes!

It really is easier for you to think we envy you than to admit you're fukked, huh? Go for it. It's that kind of arrogance and ignorance that continuously fuels the opinion that the rest of the world has of the US.

Yung Apprentice
06-18-2003, 11:35 PM
Yeah,well....uh, your guys's toilet water runs the other way. What kinda COUNTRY/CONTINENT has TOILET WATER RUNNING THE WRONG WAY????? WHO'S MESSED UP NOW!?!?!?!?!?!?!???

joedoe
06-18-2003, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by Yung Apprentice
Yeah,well....uh, your guys's toilet water runs the other way. What kinda COUNTRY/CONTINENT has TOILET WATER RUNNING THE WRONG WAY????? WHO'S MESSED UP NOW!?!?!?!?!?!?!???

Now you see, in Oz the toilets flush differently. They have a more turbulent action, so you can't really tell which way they flush. Only in the USA do you care about which way your sh!t water flushes :D

Serpent
06-18-2003, 11:42 PM
But bath water? That's a whole other issue.

cwheelie
06-19-2003, 08:33 AM
"That is because Americans don't realise there is a world outside of the borders of the USA "
Oh but we do realize it....because they're all trying to sneak into our crappy little country so they can complain that it's not like back home...

Black Jack
06-19-2003, 08:40 AM
cwheelie- LOL!:D

How so true.

Leimeng
06-19-2003, 10:03 AM
~ As one of the supposed ignorant, untraveled uncultured Americans, I really don't give a rat's behind what the rest of the world thinks of us. Most of the time it is incorrect and based on what they are fed by their govt controlled media and education.
~ I do know this, we have hundreds of thousands of people coming into this country every year illegally just so they can live in America!
~ In the 15 plus countries that I have traveled to around the world. I have notice huge lines every morning outside the embassies and consulates with people begging to be given the chance to come to the US so they can better their lives. I dont see huge lines every day outside the French missions, the Egyptian missions, the British missions, the Brasilian missions, the Russian missions... In fact, only rarely does one see any line anywhere except for the purpose of a special national holiday. Only the USA has the long lines with people trying to get in!
~ Additionally, only in the US do we have a government that pays anti-american media to spout its views! I will admit though, that the BBC is a pretty decent media source on occassion.
~ Of course, American has its downside. We are too nice on occasion and expect that others can be the same. And, we have a lot of gall in calling Budweiser the "King of Beers."

Peace

Sin Loi

Yi Beng, Kan Xue

Shaolin-Do
06-19-2003, 10:15 AM
Albeit, america isnt nearly as perfect a government as they tend to medialize, but it is better than... any other gov't in the world?

That is because Americans don't realise there is a world outside of the borders of the USA.

Err... Dont go to mexico regularly or anything..... Not going to canada in a few months....
And dont get snotty about how thats still "north America", I dont have f*ckin cash to go elsewhere yet, but id love to visit china and japan.

In asia you can see americans over other people cause we are f*ckin huge compaired to your avg. 5'6" asian. The overall view of america sickens me, and for the most part a lot of the contempt and distaste does seem to stem from nothing more than jealousy, which could be translated to yes, ***** envy. America is always stepping in to settle disputes, having to act like daddy to the rest of the world because all of the other goverments are too lazy, inadequate, thoughtless, lack the ability, ect... to control their own ****ed countries. Name me one way australia is better than the us. I know theres a few, but I could go on a 3 page schpiel over what the US has better than you. Im in no way pro america", I hate bush, and I very stronly disagree with the majority of our government, and our media, and know that a lot of what is on tv is propogated in a very wrong light, but the plain and simple fact of the matter is, no matter how imperfect america is, Its still better than your f*cking country.

chen zhen
06-19-2003, 10:26 AM
I don't envy the US in any way. And I still want to critisize your countrys political solutions. Can i fit into all your categories of "how the "foreigners" think of us"?:mad:

If you try to force everyone to love you, do not expect a bunch of flowers and loveletters.

Shaolin-Do
06-19-2003, 10:35 AM
i dont expect everyone to love america, but the world collectively acting like racist, ignorant biggets towards americans for being nothing more than american, is some of the most obtuse, irrational, and irritating behavior I can think of.

chen zhen
06-19-2003, 10:41 AM
i dont expect everyone to love america, but the world collectively acting like racist, ignorant biggets towards americans for being nothing more than american, is some of the most obtuse, irrational, and irritating behavior I can think of.

Oor, it could be the opposite way around. There IS more non-americans than americans in the world, you know, about 5.5 billion people. We can't all be "Ooh, so perfect and fantastic, and liberal and democratic, and.."
what a load of BS. And I'm not talking to you, Shaolin-do, but as a general thing.

Shaolin-Do
06-19-2003, 10:44 AM
Generalizations are a great tool for needless conflict.
Generalizations are exactly why im going to have to watch my ass like a crazy mofo when i travel outside of my own country, because I realize that most of the world hates america, and americans, for being american.
Theres plenty of countries I could dislike as a whole, but I learned about what good generalizations are from the KKK.

MasterKiller
06-19-2003, 10:44 AM
If people hate America so much, quit buying our shlt, watching our movies, listening to our records, wearing our clothes, and trying to act like us. Then we can fade into Bolivian.

Shaolin-Do
06-19-2003, 10:45 AM
edit : Im not angry, just responding, dont read too much into it. Im not pro-america, but I am pro-americans.

Xebsball
06-19-2003, 10:46 AM
Bolivian??

OR...

oblivion :D



You guys suck at soccer :D
Americans are born with 2 left legs :D

Even god is brazilian

MasterKiller
06-19-2003, 10:50 AM
Bolivian??

OR...

oblivion

You heard me right the first time, pork pie.


You guys suck at soccer
Little girls in America play soccer. It's sport for people who aren't very strong or good with their hands, which is why Brazilians dominate in it.

cwheelie
06-19-2003, 10:52 AM
OR...OR... into oblivion.....
I dunno...I kinda like the idea of fading into 'Bolivian...
seems kinda obilvious doesn't it::D

norther practitioner
06-19-2003, 10:55 AM
Xebs, bring some pads when you come up to the US... we'll show you how to play football, we'll do a better job than those fools in Romeo must die too.....


Or bring up a Lax stick.

chen zhen
06-19-2003, 10:57 AM
People who can't play soccer are'nt human


























WTF am I talkin about, I don't play soccer myself!:eek: :confused: :p :rolleyes:

Xebsball
06-19-2003, 10:57 AM
OBLIVION

Did your dad fock you in the ass when you were young or something, beatch?


You still suck at the most popular sport of the world lol :D

chen zhen
06-19-2003, 10:58 AM
Shaolin-do: KKK was invented by americans, remember?:p ;)

norther practitioner
06-19-2003, 11:01 AM
If people hate America so much, quit buying our shlt, watching our movies, listening to our records, wearing our clothes, and trying to act like us. Then we can fade into Bolivian.

word...lol


I think something is getting lost here....

Xebs is hoping we fade into Bolivia... so we can capitalize the coke industry, and the cost of shipping is less for all his american goods.

Black Jack
06-19-2003, 11:04 AM
Pork Pie....LOL!

I love that line.:D

Xesball you back from teabagging the whole tribe huh?

MasterKiller
06-19-2003, 11:04 AM
Shaolin-do: KKK was invented by americans, remember

Americans were invented by the British. Blame them.


OBLIVION

Obviously, pork pie, your massive Brazilian contact high keeps you from seeing or understanding subtle American pop culture humor. I suggest you eat some more twinkies and stay away from Univision for a while.

Xebsball
06-19-2003, 11:04 AM
i think my pc is mostly american (technology wise), though a lot of parts were made in china.

hmm my tv is made in brazil with japanese technology i think

i listen to some american bands

thats about it :D

Shaolin-Do
06-19-2003, 11:05 AM
wasnt a correlation between KKK being anti american, but KKK Making generalizations about black people. Look what it caused.
Not even necessarily the KKK, but the majority of white people in the early 1900's.

Little girls in America play soccer. It's sport for people who aren't very strong or good with their hands, which is why Brazilians dominate in it

LOL!

I dont care if I s*ck at the most popular sport in the world. Im not very good at basketball either, but Im **** good at football, baseball, volleyball, and fighting. :)

And besides, Im more about music and the rest of the world tends to suxor at it compared to us. (edit: there are some diamonds in the rough)
:)

Xebsball
06-19-2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by MasterKiller
Obviously, pork pie, your massive Brazilian contact high keeps you from seeing or understanding subtle American pop culture humor. I suggest you eat some more twinkies and stay away from Univision for a while.

lol when i seen "obviously" i though Volcano Admim was between us again :D

I dunno what twinkies are, best regards to your dad, i hope at least he was gentle with you :D

norther practitioner
06-19-2003, 11:08 AM
You prob. only here pop from other areas of the world...... Try finding an Indian pianist, or a Chinese flutist... etc.

As much as I think pop sucks, at least we have several genre`s of pop now in the US, which is better than most of the other crap by the foriegners...
:D

ewallace
06-19-2003, 11:19 AM
Everyone calls americans dumb. But who are the ones buying david hasselhoff's records. :)

norther practitioner
06-19-2003, 11:20 AM
But who are the ones buying david hasselhoff's records.

word...:D

chen zhen
06-19-2003, 11:25 AM
Has he actually made records? lol!:p

Black Jack
06-19-2003, 11:25 AM
David Hasselhoff would choke Royce the f@ck out!

Then smother him with his chest hair.

MasterKiller
06-19-2003, 11:28 AM
David Hasselhoff would auto-erotically choke himself out.

Shaolin-Do
06-19-2003, 11:30 AM
Try finding an Indian pianist, or a Chinese flutist... etc.
Or an indian sintarist, or an italian mandolinist... ect....
Why I said Diamonds in the rough.
I produce music, my knowledge of it far exceeds my knowledge of kung fu. Ive been doing music everyday since I was 4 years old. There are some extremely talented musicians from all over the world, but what is produced on a national scale for the most part, is crap.
Barring triphop production, for some reason, far easterners have some wierd knack for it... Ex- Dj Krush, Dj Vadim, Dj Honda...
Kruder and Dorfmeister are excellent producers as well, but they are german. And Dorfmeister has one of the best pornstar names Ive ever heard given by birth... "**** Dorfmeister".... lol....
:) Kruder's first name is peter. Not as cool. Japan has seen a recent trend towards hiphop as well....

Black Jack
06-19-2003, 11:36 AM
David Hasselhoff would use Kit to auto-erotically choke Royce the f@ck out!

Then craddle the fallen brazilian fighters head on his fury mat of chest hair to the background tune of a Slaughter power ballad.

ewallace
06-19-2003, 11:37 AM
"Choke all night, sleep all day"

cwheelie
06-19-2003, 12:06 PM
Kruder & Dorfmeister are Austrian, not German. I know I know - but it seems to make a difference to them
check out Talvin Singh -Soundz From the asian underground...came out a few years ago

Laughing Cow
06-19-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Leimeng

~ I do know this, we have hundreds of thousands of people coming into this country every year illegally just so they can live in America!


I guess NO other country has immigration problems.
Guess what those people will TRY to get into ANY country they can.

Most of your immigrants are from the south, Europe tends to get a lot of people from the middle east and asia.



~ Only the USA has the long lines with people trying to get in!


First of all Illegal immigrants don't stand in queue at the Embassy. ;)
AFAIK, the queue has more to do with the administrative process, the US Embassy was the first one where I had to arrange a meeting for a Visa and it gotten worse since 9/11.



We are too nice on occasion and expect that others can be the same. And, we have a lot of gall in calling Budweiser the "King of Beers."

Because most of you Guys NEVER had a true Budweiser from Budvar.

Cheers.

Laughing Cow
06-19-2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by cwheelie
Kruder & Dorfmeister are Austrian, not German. I know I know - but it seems to make a difference to them

Of course it does, national identity is important.

;)

Yung Apprentice
06-19-2003, 02:14 PM
Our beer sux, for the most part, (I like Sam Adams though and MGD ain't that bad) but pretty much everything else said on this thread about americans has been false. Including the little soccer comment. I guess people forgot World Cup so easily, last year. We surprised many people making it as far as we did. Heck, we even beat Mexico (being half mexican, I was a little dissapointed, but was still happy for the U.S. :) )

norther practitioner
06-19-2003, 02:26 PM
Barring triphop production

Don't hear much of that here...

Too many trance and house heads...

We dance at all the drum-n-bass/jungle parties out here, try to make most of the breakbeat stuff too..... funny, different production companies out here fly these Brits in weekly... figures we have $7 covers to see these guys....

We have some crappy hip hop here, some ok, nothing too spectacular. Too much westcoast mixed with midwest for my taste. I got to see bad company (the junglists, not the band)... there stuff mixes real well with some of the hip hop I used to spin (was trying to figure out that whole turntablist thing when in college).

Shaolin-Do
06-19-2003, 02:30 PM
Ive got a friend who is a bad ass turntabilist, and strangely enough he looks exactly like qbert. Ill further the music subject manana, Im off work.
lates.
SD
:)

Leimeng
06-19-2003, 03:34 PM
__________________________________________________ __
First of all Illegal immigrants don't stand in queue at the Embassy. AFAIK, the queue has more to do with the administrative process, the US Embassy was the first one where I had to arrange a meeting for a Visa and it gotten worse since 9/11.
__________________________________________________ __

~ Correct, illegals come in by any means possible. Getting Visas into most countries is a pain in the ass. 9/11 makes it more so. I still dont see long lines of people trying to get into other countries legally.
~ Many countries have immigration problems. That is NOT the main point. The point is that more people try to get into the USA each year than any other country in the world. If we are such a horrible place, then why?
~ Actually, Brasil and UK have some great musicians!
~ Brasil teem as mais boazudas no mundo!
~ Sam Adams is good beer.
~ Feijadoa and XimXim are muito boas pra comer....
~ Soju is good drinking!


"Love your neighbor as yourself and your country more than yourself." --Thomas Jefferson


Peace,

Sin Loi

Yi Beng, Kan Xue

Laughing Cow
06-19-2003, 04:10 PM
~ That is NOT the main point. The point is that more people try to get into the USA each year than any other country in the world.


Pls, supply 3 independant sources that verify your statement.



If we are such a horrible place, then why?

Because, you are still better than where they came from.

Same with the illegal immigrants that go to other countries, why because they think they got a better chance of irking out a living than back home.

FWIW, go to the Library and read the stories of how people escaped from the east block and similar, and also what people from Sri Lanka(Ceylon), China or similar places go through to end up in germany or england.
It makes the US/Mexico border look like a stroll in the park.


~ I still dont see long lines of people trying to get into other countries legally.

Maybe because you are looking in the wrong places, because I can assure you that those lines are there.

Just because you don't see something does not mean it does not exist.

I got my Papers to come into this country organised with only 2 10 minutes visits to the consulate.

Like I said if you ain't got the facts don't jump to conclussions.

Cheers.

Laughing Cow
06-19-2003, 04:29 PM
Some data about england:


25,000 illegal immigrants may go undetected each year
More than two million immigrants will arrive in Britain every 10 years unless strict new controls are introduced, according to a new campaign group.

Source. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2172730.stm)

Serpent
06-19-2003, 04:59 PM
I got stoned with Dorfmeister a couple of months ago. He's a strange guy.

joedoe
06-19-2003, 05:24 PM
If you girls want to see how real football is played, watch some rugby - either code. No padding, no helmets.

Laughing Cow
06-19-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by joedoe
If you girls want to see how real football is played, watch some rugby - either code. No padding, no helmets.

I guess they will get a fright when the All Blacks perform their hakka.
;)

Serpent
06-19-2003, 05:36 PM
The most brutal game of football in existence? State Of Origin, without a shadow of a doubt. Carnage from start to finish. Any gridiron player walking onto that field would sh!t himself.

;)

joedoe
06-19-2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Serpent
The most brutal game of football in existence? State Of Origin, without a shadow of a doubt. Carnage from start to finish. Any gridiron player walking onto that field would sh!t himself.

;)

I agree Serp. They just step it up a notch for State of Origin don't they? Absolutely brutal. I remember once they played a game in LA or Florida, I can't remember which and the American viewers were stunned with the brutality and lack of padding.

I am dying to watch the Wallabies v. England game tomorrow night though. I am pretty sure Nathan Gray is going to murder a Pom during that match :)

Serpent
06-19-2003, 06:13 PM
Yeah, I'm excited about that too! It's the only time I don't support the Wallabies though. I have to go with the home team for old time's sake. ;)

Should be a stormer. Did you see the games last week? New Zealand couldn't break through England when they were down to 13 men. The Aussies are going to get whupped!

(Fancy a small wager?) ;)

joedoe
06-19-2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Serpent
Yeah, I'm excited about that too! It's the only time I don't support the Wallabies though. I have to go with the home team for old time's sake. ;)

Should be a stormer. Did you see the games last week? New Zealand couldn't break through England when they were down to 13 men. The Aussies are going to get whupped!

(Fancy a small wager?) ;)

Nah mate, I am with you. The Wallabies are going to lose badly. However, I think they have the firepower to do some serious damage if they decide to get malicious. As I said, I think Nathan Gray is going to try and murder a Pom :)

Serpent
06-19-2003, 06:30 PM
Haha! Should be great.! So basically, England are going to win and it's just a matter of trying to win and keep all 15 men alive!

joedoe
06-19-2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Serpent
Haha! Should be great.! So basically, England are going to win and it's just a matter of trying to win and keep all 15 men alive!

Well, there is a reason why he is called Crazy Graysie. And the fact that he hasn't worn the Wallaby jersey for a while might just encourage him to go hard to try and keep his spot (not likely against an in-form Elton Flatley though). You ever watch Nathan Gray tackle? Like a torpedo. Comes in at full speed and just tries to kill his opponent.

Serpent
06-19-2003, 06:44 PM
But Elton is out, sacked for boozing! Or was it just a one match punishment?

Bring back Larkham and the game will change!

joedoe
06-19-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by Serpent
But Elton is out, sacked for boozing! Or was it just a one match punishment?

Bring back Larkham and the game will change!

I think it was only one match. Sad that it happened, but Eddie Jones has to maintain discipline I guess.

Larkham is a legend. Flatley is playing so well though, and will make a good successor to Larkham.

I am just waiting to see Gray draw blood :D

Serpent
06-19-2003, 06:59 PM
I agree about Flatley, but he was missing kicks all over the shop last week! It will be good to see him back, however.

And I'm gonna be watching Gray closely now! ;)

Yung Apprentice
06-19-2003, 08:57 PM
What was the point of this post? Really. Was it to tell us, americans, how much we suck? At first this post was funny, now it's getting offensive, comparing the U.S.A with the rest of the world. What's next, were all going to pull out our *****'s and measure them with a ruler? I mean, honestly, how juvenile can you get? How many threads have you seen labeled "What the world thinks of Australia", or England, or god knows what country you are from.

I guess we MUST be important, if people from other countries are thinking enough about us, to want to make a whole thread about americans, on a Kung Fu website.


Pathetic

Laughing Cow
06-19-2003, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Yung Apprentice
What's next, were all going to pull out our *****'s and measure them with a ruler?


You first PeeWee. ;)



I guess we MUST be important, if people from other countries are thinking enough about us, to want to make a whole thread about americans, on a Kung Fu website.


You know like the open sore that scabs over, but you keep scratching at it.

:D

BTW, we had the tread nicely highjacked and you go and spoil and bring it back on topic.

PATHETIC

FYI, the FRENCH play rugby too.

Serpent
06-19-2003, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Yung Apprentice
What was the point of this post? Really. Was it to tell us, americans, how much we suck? At first this post was funny, now it's getting offensive, comparing the U.S.A with the rest of the world. What's next, were all going to pull out our *****'s and measure them with a ruler? I mean, honestly, how juvenile can you get? How many threads have you seen labeled "What the world thinks of Australia", or England, or god knows what country you are from.

I guess we MUST be important, if people from other countries are thinking enough about us, to want to make a whole thread about americans, on a Kung Fu website.


Pathetic

You see, this very post is a perfect example. Especially this bit:

"What was the point of this post? Really. Was it to tell us, americans, how much we suck? "

This is an international board, with members from all over the world, and you, an American, automatically assumes that the post was directed at you! LOL. AMERICA IS NOT THE CENTRE OF THE UNIVERSE! Yes, I did spell centre correctly, monkey boy.

And the reason that there haven't been any posts named "What the world thinks of XXX" is because there haven't been any polls of 11,000 people done before hand. This post was based on the fact that there was a program shown in Australia and the UK (and I'm sure many other places) that took a poll of 1,000 people in each of 11 countries (including the US itself) asking questions to determine what the world thought of the US (at least based on that very un-representative poll). It was interesting stuff, so it got posted.

Are you learning anything yet?

:rolleyes:

:D

Xebsball
06-19-2003, 09:17 PM
It was on tv here too, i seen it

I like Serpents posts and i support the actions he has taken on this forum

And, as to my opinion about the poll
-> i too think the USA are more dangerous to the world than Bin Laden or any terrorist
-> basicly because you take what you want* by force, like on a masked roman style though you never admit

*
oil, water,
gold, wealth,
health, silver,
new lands, foreign lands,
culture, religion

-> whats next??

Xebsball
06-19-2003, 09:19 PM
governamet -> creator of factoids
created the "weapons" -> digged the oil
marched -> but i know
heroes they're not

Laughing Cow
06-19-2003, 09:20 PM
I didn't see it on TV over here, might have shown though.

But it was heavily reported in ALL the newspapers over here and from what I can gather pretty much worldwide.

From what I hear a LOT of people echoed the feelings expressed in the poll.

Cheers.

Yung Apprentice
06-19-2003, 09:21 PM
Last time I looked, this thread was labeled "What the world thinks of america". Last time I checked, I live in America. It is my HOME. I am an american. So if a post is called "What the world thinks of America", then obviously it's being directed at my home, and essentially those who live here. Including me.


I know America is not the CENTER on the universe. I never said it was. But America is being referred in the topic.


Check out the past points in posts, many were directed directly AT america, and a couple at americans.

Yet, I'M THE ONE THAT THINKS AMERICA IS THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE?

Laughing Cow
06-19-2003, 09:26 PM
Yung apprentice.

I guess you also listen into your neigbours conversation when you think they talk about you.
;)

As Serpent said it is an international forum and everybody is free to read or not to read a thread or post therein.

If you do read something you don't like than don't get all uppity and righteous.

The poll was about "America" as an economic and political entity, not about individual citizens(americans).

Cheers.

Yung Apprentice
06-19-2003, 09:26 PM
If this post wasn't directed towards me, then why do ppl keep referring to me as "YOU" when talking about america?

Maybe I'm not the one who thinks America is the center of the universe.

Serpent
06-19-2003, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Yung Apprentice
Last time I looked, this thread was labeled "What the world thinks of america". Last time I checked, I live in America. It is my HOME. I am an american. So if a post is called "What the world thinks of America", then obviously it's being directed at my home, and essentially those who live here. Including me.


Oh my god, you really don't get it, do you?!

The post is on an International board. It is entitled "What the world thinks of America".

Therefore, it is directed to everybody on the board pointing out a poll of 11 countries that was used as a snapshot to see what the world thought of America.

It's for the interest and discussion of EVERYBODY, which means all the countries, not just America. Sure, it includes America, but only Americans think that they're the only ones that matter.

The fact that you still think that this post was directed at Americans is amazing. It would be bloody hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

Serpent
06-19-2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Yung Apprentice
If this post wasn't directed towards me, then why do ppl keep referring to me as "YOU" when talking about america?

Maybe I'm not the one who thinks America is the center of the universe.

Jesus, talk about paranoid.

Dude, you need professional help!

Yung Apprentice
06-19-2003, 09:31 PM
Sorry if I'm getting uppity, but I have pride in my country, and everyday, I listen to the radio, watch t.v. read in the newspaper, and now the internet, ppl slandering my country.

Since this a public forum, I do read this crap. I wouldn't listen to my neighbors convo, because I respect their privacy. But this is a public forum. And I it seems pointless to argue with the MANY (or at least it seems that way) people who view America in a bad way.

Serpent
06-19-2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Yung Apprentice
Sorry if I'm getting uppity, but I have pride in my country, and everyday, I listen to the radio, watch t.v. read in the newspaper, and now the internet, ppl slandering my country.

And yet, in the face of this wave of public opinion, Americans still refuse to believe they're doing anything wrong.



Since this a public forum, I do read this crap. I wouldn't listen to my neighbors convo, because I respect their privacy. But this is a public forum. And I it seems pointless to argue with the MANY (or at least it seems that way) people who view America in a bad way.

Yeah, why argue when you'll do what you want anyway. In the words of your own president, "The American way of life is not negotiable!"

Even if it destroys the planet, eh?

Laughing Cow
06-19-2003, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Yung Apprentice
If this post wasn't directed towards me, then why do ppl keep referring to me as "YOU" when talking about america?


One reason "America" as an economic and political entity is a representation of what "Americans" feel, and "Americans" are the only people that can change "America" as such.

You elect leaders that represent YOUR views and act on YOUR behalf in domestic and international affairs.

Naturally, not all Americans agree with the goverment but the majority seems to do as they elected them, thus your govemerment is a representaion of the majority of "Americans".

Same for any other country.

If you as "Americans" have no control over the Goverment and "America" as such than there is something gone horrible wrong, IMHO.

Cheers.

Yung Apprentice
06-19-2003, 09:37 PM
Serpent, I understand the point of this post quite well, far better then you think. But, apparently, my point isn't being portayed very well. Which I am of course to blame. I guess what I want to say, I'm having trouble saying. Sooooooo, I guess I'll shut up now.


But as a side note, this is a Kung Fu forum. And I am failing to see how this question pertains to Kung Fu.

Laughing Cow
06-19-2003, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by Yung Apprentice
Sorry if I'm getting uppity, but I have pride in my country, and everyday, I listen to the radio, watch t.v. read in the newspaper, and now the internet, ppl slandering my country.

I wouldn't call it slandering.

But we see a lot of smoke and since there can be no smoke without a fire.

Don't worry my homecountry been on that side of the stick many times, but pride in your country also means to accept the bad sides with grace and strife to get rid of them.

Lots of people complain to point out that there is a need for change.

Cheers.

Laughing Cow
06-19-2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Yung Apprentice
But as a side note, this is a Kung Fu forum. And I am failing to see how this question pertains to Kung Fu.

The "Kung Fu Forum" is for off-topic and general discussions that don't fit into the individual forums.

If you want pure KF chat than head to the sub-forum for your style.

Cheers.

joedoe
06-19-2003, 09:43 PM
I think YOU are taking it all a bit too personally :D

Just kidding.

Seriously, in general I like Americans. In fact, in about 9 months I am going to marry one :). There are a lot of good things to be said about Americans as people. However I do not always agree with the position and attitudes that America as a nation takes in the international stage. Having said that, I do not always agree with the position that my own nation takes either, but such is life.

Flame away :)

Yung Apprentice
06-19-2003, 09:43 PM
What country has the control of the government? We elect these guys, and once they get the power, they run a much for four years. We do not know the intentions of a politic, because they lie. As with any other country. America ain't a perfect place, nor are americans perfect people. Politics s-u-c-k, and thats with any country.



This will be my last post on this subject. Hopefully there's no hard feelings.:)

Yung Apprentice
06-19-2003, 09:45 PM
"However I do not always agree with the position and attitudes that America as a nation takes in the international stage. Having said that, I do not always agree with the position that my own nation takes either, but such is life."


I AGREE 100%.

Laughing Cow
06-19-2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by Yung Apprentice
What country has the control of the government?


My Home-country for one, as in many other countries.

Do a research there should be a way that citizens can veto a goverments decision or similar.

There are ways that citizen can exert control over the goverment, but I guess it is too easy to sit back throw the arms up and say "there is nothing we can do" and the people that try to do something like the protesters are labeled as traitors and scumbags.

Goverments are there to serve the people that elected them and are accountable to them too for their decisions.

In my homecountry we elected some people that didn't do as we wanted, guess what they never finished their terms.

Cheers.

Serpent
06-19-2003, 10:10 PM
Yung - of course, no hard feelings.

Cow - You point out one of the things that bothers me about Australia at the moment. The government is becoming less and less accountable to the will of the people, blatantly lying and getting away with it.

In fact, our government is becoming a lot more like America's! :eek:

Hopefully, public opinion is beginning to sway that.

Laughing Cow
06-19-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by Serpent

Cow - You point out one of the things that bothers me about Australia at the moment. The government is becoming less and less accountable to the will of the people, blatantly lying and getting away with it.

My goverment still gets away with quiet a few things too. :(

One reason why we didn't support the Iraq War was because the goverment listened to the people, not like in Japan where 84% were opposed to the war and the goverment went ahead and jumped into the sack with the USA.

Serpent
06-19-2003, 10:16 PM
Same here. Smaller figure, but still a majority against in all polls.

TigerJaw
06-20-2003, 03:11 AM
I believe the anti-war protest in London was the biggest protest in Britain ever.

Still went a head and went to war though. I see the British government going down similar lines to that in America as well. I was in the states last year for the election and was shocked to see no real difference between the two candidates. They were just campainging on the grounds of personality first and ability to do the job second. Politics hardly entered into it at all. Unsurprisingly, only half the population voted. Which is what the politicians like because they can campaign purely to the middle and upper classes and pass laws which benefit themselves.

It's getting the same way here with the two parties having practically the same policies and campaining on personality mostly, the opposition acusses the govt of incompetance and the government defends itself and accuses the opposition of lying. No wonder electoral turnouts are sliding. We don't have a new aristocracy like there is in America, but it'll happen, sooner or later.

Please don't picak apart my spelling and grammar. I haven't checked for mistakes so there's probably a load of them.

themeecer
07-02-2003, 09:54 PM
Ok .. my head is spinning. My former enemies (not really) on the SD threads are now my allies. I see my American brothers getting bashed in these threads and want to step up in their defense.

They are picking on Yung Apprentance just like they did me on the SD threads. YA .. don't let them sweat you. You are totally in the right. Serpent makes a thread of "What the world thinks of America," and defends this as being an international board. Well, isn't every board international since you can access them from anywhere? And you are correct in taking offense at this thread. You live in America don't you? That makes you an American, right? And this was obviously an anti-American thread. It's sad really .... for years I felt no ill will towards any other country, but after the actions of many on internet boards, I could care less if I ever leave this country again.

Serpent
07-02-2003, 10:13 PM
Nice of you to dig up an old classic, meecer. Why am I not surprised at everything you said.

Again, if you take offence at this as an attack on Americans, you are only furthering the stereotype.

In the words of joedoe - it's good entertainment!

Black Jack
07-02-2003, 10:37 PM
I found the best deal is to ignore these types of posts. Their is nothing really new in them.

Now that I said that I will let Serpent and his motley crew go back to reading Tiger Beat magazine and circle jerking over posters of Joey Lawerance.

Whoooooaaaaaaa!!!!!!

themeecer
07-02-2003, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by Black Jack
Now that I said that I will let Serpent and his motley crew go back to reading Tiger Beat magazine and circle jerking over posters of Joey Lawerance.

Whoooooaaaaaaa!!!!!!
Oh my. I am having trouble typing after that one. That was hilareous. That is some good old fashioned kidding. I wish all of our comments on here could be so jovial.

Serpent
07-02-2003, 10:51 PM
Oh right. So that's not name-calling and insulting then, it's "good old fashioned kidding". Why? Because you agree with it?

Nice going.

:rolleyes:

Serpent
07-02-2003, 10:52 PM
BTW, what is Tiger Beat magazine and who is Joey Lawrence?

joedoe
07-02-2003, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Serpent
BTW, what is Tiger Beat magazine and who is Joey Lawrence?

I suspect it is a magazine aimed at the h0mosexual market.

themeecer
07-02-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Serpent
Oh right. So that's not name-calling and insulting then, it's "good old fashioned kidding". Why? Because you agree with it?

Nice going.

:rolleyes:

Ok .. I will answer this one. I am ignoring you in other threads. Why do I agree with this .. because he obviously meant this in good humor. Saying someone's art is sh** and calling their teacher a liar and so on and so on isn't done in good humor.



Originally posted by Serpent
BTW, what is Tiger Beat magazine and who is Joey Lawrence?
I'll probably regret saying this because you will ask how would I know. Tiger Beat is a teen girl's magazine that has the current "teeny bopper heart throb' on the covers. Joey Lawrence has graced the cover of the magazine many a time. Big girly man. :D

shaolin kungfu
07-02-2003, 10:58 PM
How did you know that?:p

themeecer
07-02-2003, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by shaolin kungfu
How did you know that?:p
Cause you told me you big girly man. :D

Serpent
07-02-2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by themeecer


Ok .. I will answer this one. I am ignoring you in other threads. Why do I agree with this .. because he obviously meant this in good humor. Saying someone's art is sh** and calling their teacher a liar and so on and so on isn't done in good humor.



He didn't mean it in good humour because he doesn't like me. I don't really like him either, although we do sometimes have similar views on some subjects. Rarely. But what do I care what he thinks of me.

On the other hand, your teacher is a liar. That's just stating a fact. Me calling your art sh!t is an opinion.

We're obviously not going to agree on these things, but at least try to keep the hypocrisy to a minimum.

themeecer
07-02-2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by Serpent

On the other hand, your teacher is a liar. That's just stating a fact. Me calling your art sh!t is an opinion.
.

Careful there. I'm not a lawyer but it seems that you are coming very close at comitting slander.

shaolin kungfu
07-02-2003, 11:45 PM
Isn't slander only spoken? This would be libel.

Edit: which only matters if it were false, which it is almost definitely not.

Serpent
07-02-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by shaolin kungfu
Isn't slander only spoken? This would be libel.

Edit: which only matters if it were false, which it is almost definitely not.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

David Jamieson
07-03-2003, 05:42 AM
The "Kung Fu Forum" is for off-topic and general discussions that don't fit into the individual forums.

No it is not for off topic and general discussion. It is through stubborn persistence or plain stupidity that it becomes that now and then.

This is definitely a Kungfu board and the discussions are general discussions about Kungfu.

Frankly, I wish you guys would take the lame attempts at geopolitics elsewhere. All it serves to do is to foster and grow ill will towards each other.

KFQG Magazine and its forum moderators have been fairly lenient in it's allowance for off topic threads, but maybe it's time to rethink that.

They almost never work out, people refuse to take a look at another persons views more than 80% of teh time and it is almost never civil.

Some of you guys get offended so easily I have no idea what the heck you are doing on a public forum! It is not the place for a thin skinned person who cannot take a comment or two.

well, that is all, just wanted to clear up that misconception befor it got out of hand :rolleyes:

cheers

ewallace
07-03-2003, 06:35 AM
Frankly, I wish you guys would take the lame attempts at geopolitics elsewhere.
As if you have not been a participant in any of these threads. :rolleyes:

Black Jack
07-03-2003, 09:15 AM
Second that ewallace,

Serpent....actually it was in "part" good humor....don't take everything so seriously all the time....it will cause wrinkles.

Design Sifu
07-03-2003, 04:13 PM
So . . .


anyone read that Planetary/BATMAN crossover...?

Great ART....

David Jamieson
07-03-2003, 04:23 PM
As if you have not been a participant in any of these threads.

Uh, I don't start em and I will usually disuade em. I have participated in those that were of some interest, but they always degrade into mudslinging. So, I don't think you can exactly cry hypocrisy in regards to what I just said in my last post.

Danged if you do, danged if you don't when your a mod eh?

hmph :D

anyway...It is a Kungfu forum and it's international and who gives a flying donut what the rest of the world thinks about america. More sensationalism is the heart of that show anyway.

Hello Kettle, its pot, your black.

cheers

African Tiger
07-03-2003, 05:00 PM
As much as I hate political discussions on this KUNG FU BOARD, I just had to throw my 2 cents in here.

I could give a rat's rotten ass tits what other countries think about America. Because everytime someone goes broke or needs to be bailed out of a war (France: WWI, WWII, VIETNAM! and far too many other examples to list here), negative opinions get conveniently pushed aside.

Careful what you say about daddy. One day he'll cut off your allowance. :p

Christopher M
07-03-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Kung Lek

If here...


It is through stubborn persistence or plain stupidity that it becomes that now and then... I have participated in those that were of some interest...

... you're saying that you're as prone to stubborn persistence and plain stupidity as the other posters here, surely you should be applauded for your equanimity.

I think the confusion is coming from here...


Frankly, I wish you guys would take the lame attempts at geopolitics elsewhere.

... it seems like if that was your wish, it would be reflected in your actions. It's not, by your own admission. So, it's not surprising that people are left to wonder if that truly is your wish. Perhaps another alternative is that you feel that your wish-fulfillment should be other people's responsability rather than your own.

David Jamieson
07-03-2003, 05:06 PM
Chris, I'm as stupid and as stubborn as you, or the next guy.

And I will reiterate, I don't start these inane political topics about strom thurmonds glands or dexter lexter maddox hills in a box or hillaries bill folding techniques.

I leave that to the wannabe pundits. And yes, some of the topics pee me off, what can I say I am only human.

what I am saying is that there was a statement made earlier that was erroneous and misleading. That statement was the original one I quoted. Look up a bit in the thread. Anyway, to paraphrase the quote is saying to dump all your banal stuff here in teh main forum.

I said, NO, don't dump your dumb@ss pseudo political musings here if you can avoid it.

Thank you

cheers

African Tiger
07-03-2003, 05:08 PM
Little girls in America play soccer. It's sport for people who aren't very strong or good with their hands, which is why Brazilians dominate in it.

:D :D :D :D :D

After all, WE don't have "football moms."

Christopher M
07-03-2003, 05:11 PM
No one can argue with that.

I suspect that there was the perception that your comments were intended to be general rather than specific; in other words, that you used Laughing Cow's aforementioned remark as a spring-board for a general statement directed at other posters, rather than being directed specifically at those remarks alone.

Going by your most recent remarks, I suspect that the bulk of the posters involved here (specifically those alleging your hypocrisy) feel the exact same way you do about the topic. I think this is exactly why the remarks were percieved to be hypocritical, as it seemed like people with the same stance as you were being treated differently.

Design Sifu
07-03-2003, 05:22 PM
At least pick up the latest issue of NEW X-MEN... it's great fun.

David Jamieson
07-04-2003, 06:45 AM
Going by your most recent remarks, I suspect that the bulk of the posters involved here (specifically those alleging your hypocrisy) feel the exact same way you do about the topic. I think this is exactly why the remarks were percieved to be hypocritical, as it seemed like people with the same stance as you were being treated differently.

Chris, into everyone's life a little hypocrisy must fall.

What I am really saying is I am tired of seeing 10 threads about shrubs latest blunder vs 3 threads about Kungfu techniques or queries.

I'd rather see Shaolin Do debates frankly. :D at least they are on topic to a degree.

Anyway, Happy independence day, to the murcan cousins here.\

And, just as an addendum, when it's done here, it's a hiyah-pocrisy.

cheers

TonyM.
07-04-2003, 09:16 AM
I am so tired of tourists, corparate officers and government officials acting like the south end of a north bound horse when they go overseas I could just spit.

Okami
07-06-2003, 05:38 PM
I saw an editorial on a book the other day, and cannot for the life of me remember the name. Anyhow, the jist of the book was why European Nations differ so much from the US and why they dislike us.

After the first two world wars, Europe was in shambles. The US filled the power void with its military and economic power. Europe concentrated on diplomacy while the US based its military power there to ward off the threat of the cold war. The cold war is over, the communist threat is gone and the world is a very different place to live in. Today the political philosophy in Europe is bent toward the diplomatic or "let's talk this out" idealism. Europeans feel that the American ideal of buy them out or beat them up ideal is out dated. The problem with the European thought process is that they still need the military might of the US (through the UN) to take care of problems that require military intervention (ie. Bosina). This need of US power makes the European community angry, because is displays a reliance on a method that they feel is outdated.

It seems that the more modern or culturally evolved idealism of Europe is at odds with the 20th century, cold war idealism of the US.

It is obvious that we need both. Diplomacy is always a better solution, but when problems arise, and leaders arise that just won't listen force is needed. I don't know the answer, but a balance is needed. Until that balance is achieved, the European Community will be unhappy with the US, and vice versa. They want to talk it out and we want to eliminate the problem.

There will be more problems, but time heals all wounds and society will evolve to allow for co-existance under some kind of system that we probably haven't imagined yet.

Until then, I will subscribe to the "talk to those who listen and ignore those who don't" philsophy. At least until those who don't start hurting me, then I will hit them.

Serpent
07-06-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Black Jack
Serpent....actually it was in "part" good humor....don't take everything so seriously all the time....it will cause wrinkles.

Easy to say now. Still, don't worry about the wrinkles - they're mostly laugh lines.

Laughing Cow
07-06-2003, 08:14 PM
Okami.

I also read that study and feel like it was not accurate representation of what the average european in the street feels.

The USA being a major economic powerhouse is trying to impose a lot of rules and tarrifs on international business and this in turn hurts our economies and affects our lifes.

This is one of the parts for the discontent.

Another is the americanisation ofr atleast the attempts to turn everything uniform and stereotype.
Europeans are VERY proud of heritage and their culture and resend uninvited intrusions into what they feel is their heritage.
We love our diversity and will fight to keep it, at the same time we also respect other peoples right to be different and act accordingly.

Last point of contention.

Political, now here we don't see eye to eye and I don't think we never will.

Plus, we are sick and tired of hearing how much bigger, better and grander all things american are and how we continously need to be bailed out by the USA who on the other hand hurts us economically and in many other ways.

Just some thoughts.

Serpent
07-06-2003, 09:02 PM
Not to mention how much of that bailing out is needed as a result of American foreign policy in the first place.

More than anything, it's the Americanisation thing. So many Americans think that they and their country are the greatest thing in existence and they also think that everyone else should be just like them. Well, if you think you're great, that's just fine. Try to change me to be like you and I'll react unfavourably.

Also, adversely affect my life and safety in order to continue doing things you want and I'll react unfavourably.

Americans really can't seem to see that this is what is happening.

Your great and illustrious leader summed it up so succinctly, albeit unwittingly, when he refused to ratify the Kyoto Protocol. He said, and I quote,




"The American way of life is not negotiable." - George W Bush.



No matter the cost, it would seem. When people are trying to save the planet, the American way of life is more important.

This is what makes the rest of the world so full of hate.

Christopher M
07-06-2003, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Okami
It seems that the more modern or culturally evolved idealism of Europe is at odds with the 20th century, cold war idealism of the US.

It seems like you've made a premise in your post: that American post-coldwar foreign policy is primarily militaristic, while that of Europe is diplomatic. You then consider contexts and observations to explain and elaborate upon this premise.

Well... have you considered that this premise itself is flawed?

Why might this be a possibility?

First we should consider the broader historical context. While you've limited your argument to the post-coldwar period, are you sure this is reasonable? Before this period, the history is dramatically against your position: consider European colonialism and the world wars. Considering the systematic, extreme, and long-standing discrepency between history and your position here, do you truly feel warranted in dismissing it after a single decade?

And is there even any reason, within this post-coldwar decade itself, to believe this history should be rejected?

How do you rationalize your position with the post-coldwar conflict in Yugoslavia? There are also other, albeit less obvious examples, of post-coldwar conflict internal to Europe, such as in the Czech Republic and Hungary.

Even if you limit the argument to some conception of "western" Europe, there are still significant problems to overcome. France is the world's largest arms dealer per capita; shouldn't this be considered? And they continue to enact military intervention around the world: classic examples would be ongoing French deployment in Chad and the Ivory Coast.

If you would like more examples, ask. But I believe that under the weight of this evidence, we must consider your original premise to be flawed. There's no reason to believe in the first place that Europe has distinguished itself for it's non-militarism.

old jong
07-06-2003, 09:33 PM
Well,that's a big continent made of two parts: North and south America's.

One of it's region,known as "The United States of America" Is usually a good seeking country (Depending on it's administration!)

;)

Christopher M
07-06-2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Laughing Cow
The USA being a major economic powerhouse is trying to impose a lot of rules and tarrifs on international business and this in turn hurts our economies and affects our lifes... Another is the americanisation ofr atleast the attempts to turn everything uniform and stereotype.

It seems to me that Laughing Cow here is being internally inconsistent. Moreover, that his inconsistencies, rather than being limited to this one post, are part of a systematic confusion as to current and historical affairs.

Looking at foreign policy a certain way, there are two ways to treat national borders. One, you can regulate them: this makes them more robust, having the effect of slowing down movement (eg. of finances, of culture, of politics) across them. Two, you can deregulate them, making them less significant, and having the opposite effects.

In the above, Laughing Cow has, presumably unknowingly, asserted that America does both. Obviously, this is impossible. You might believe that America's foreign policy is principled around regulating borders, or around deregulating them, but not both. And if you believe the former, you can't simultaneously believe they're "turning everything uniform and stereotype," which only results from movement across borders, not lack thereof. This idea of globalization is synonymous with deregulated borders, not regulated ones.

To be utterly frank, I suspect he's simply unclear as to what he's talking about.

People tend to characterize America as more conservative than Europe. To put things in perspective, conservatism favors deregulation, while liberalism favors regulation. For example, when people criticize America for not supporting international business regulations pertaining to the environment, they're critisizing them for favoring deregulation.

The irony here is that the criticism Laughing Cow is making, so far as we can discern what it is through the inconsistencies, is not a criticism of the conservative (American) position, but of the communist one which America has long opposed: which believes in extremely strict financial regulation of borders (think "iron curtain"), coupled with political and cultural uniformity (think "international proletariat").

I'm not saying either one of these options is necessarily the right model to follow: only that we should be aware of what they are and what place they have both currently and historically.

Let's assume we're interested in making the world a better place, let's call that step three. Step two would be determining what the best solutions are, from those available. Step one would be identifying the available solutions. Obviously, you gotta do this in order. My criticism and observation here would be that most people claim to be concerned about step three, but essentially no one has done step one yet. The above discussion would be a good illustration of this.

Laughing Cow
07-06-2003, 10:01 PM
Christopher M.

Stick it up your hole and smoke it.
:D

Those 2 things can and do happen together.
Foreign policy and economics are intertwined, each drives each and influences each other.

As for the amercanisation, do YOU think I want to see Golden Arches or similar everywhere I go in the world first thing I get off a plane.
Or watch stupid sitcoms that turn the brain to mush.

but go ahead Mr. logic and Mr. superior, maybe one of this days we will see a meaning full post about Martial Arts from you where you do MORE than just regurgitate opinions and read stuff.

What was that MA you are doing??
Mr Keyboard warrior.

But alas No he only creeps out of the woodwork to attack me and a few other people.
Don't like what I type, tough luck.

Get a life and enroll in a MA school for a change.

We now return you do your regular program.

Christopher M
07-06-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Laughing Cow
Those 2 things can and do happen together.

Deregulation and regulation of borders can't happen together, as they refer literally to opposite processes. If you mean only that:


Foreign policy and economics are intertwined, each drives each and influences each other.

Then of course you're completely right. In fact, I discussed some ways in which foreign policy and economics are intertwined in my post; so surely it's not a challenge to my argument.

If you mean that there are aspects of foreign policy other than the treatment of national borders, then again you're completely right. However, again it's not a challenge to my argument, as both it and your remarks I was commenting on were limited to this aspect of foreign policy.

Perhaps if you think you have a challenge to my position, you can illustrate it somehow. It's certainly not clear from the above.


As for the amercanisation, do YOU think I want to see Golden Arches or similar everywhere I go in the world first thing I get off a plane.
Or watch stupid sitcoms that turn the brain to mush.

Perhaps you should suggest your government dictate what forms of art are allowed in your country, so you can avoid such displeasure? This would be an example of regulation.

I've ignored most of your post; if I missed something having to do with the discussion, please bring it to my attention. Thanks.

Laughing Cow
07-06-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by Christopher M

I've ignored most of your post; if I missed something having to do with the discussion, please bring it to my attention. Thanks.

What discussion.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have any type of decent discussion with you.

Now go and crawl back under your stone, nobody asked you to come out and give your opinion.

Evad
07-06-2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Laughing Cow


What discussion.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have any type of decent discussion with you.

Now go and crawl back under your stone, nobody asked you to come out and give your opinion.

Geez, I think a lot of ppl would be very glad if you took your own advice.

Opinions are like A$$holes everybody has one and most of em stink!

Laughing Cow
07-06-2003, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by Evad

Geez, I think a lot of ppl would be very glad if you took your own advice.


I don't like being attacked for stating an opinion because some air-head thinks he knows it all.
This goes back a lot longer than you been on this board.
He follows me around and posts immediately after I post anything he disagress with.

What does HE know how we europeans feel about the USA or how their goverment policies and trade regulations affect our lifes?

I didn't criticise the USA as he claims, but explained the sentiments & feelings of many fellow europeans.

Cheers.

Yung Apprentice
07-06-2003, 11:19 PM
So many Americans think that they and their country are the greatest thing in existence and they also think that everyone else should be just like them

I didn't know you knew so "MANY" americans. It seems as if your post is insinuating the MAJORITY of americans. Oh and, thanx for tellin us what we think.;)

I thought this thread was about "America" and not "Americans", but now many are starting to say things about the "AMERICAN PEOPLE". Generalizations are pointless and prejudice.

America is a big continent.(as was previously stated) Brazil, Argentina, Chile, are all part of America. Canada and Mexico are also apart of America, where I'm going with this, I have no idea!!:D

This thread is definately becoming trashy, and the moderaters have my vote to can this thread. Kung Lek, dust the cob webs loose from your moderater options, and do what you used to do best!:D

Serpent
07-06-2003, 11:24 PM
LOL. This thread was well dead and buried in the depths of pages past until themeecer chose to bring it to the top again.

Let it pass and it will drift away of it's own accord. Keep fueling the fire and it will continue to burn.

Think about it - if nobody posts another comment from now on, it will very soon be gone again. Why not post some more topics on subjects you'd like to see as well - that'll help to push it away.

And to play my part, I won't say another word here. Unless someone addresses me directly.

;)

BTW - this thread was about America and not Americans, but it does seem to have drifted more toward a discussion of American people in recent posts. Self-fulfilling prophecy by those that were too paranoid, egotistical and thin-skinned to see it as anything but about them.

Yung Apprentice
07-06-2003, 11:29 PM
LOL, agreed it was dead, then the meecer did CPR and brought it back to life! Oh, well!!!!!:D

bodhitree
07-07-2003, 05:47 AM
I'm an American, and I think America breeds mostly idiots and isolationists. Many Americans think people from other places hate them because 'there jealous', nothing to do with policy, how stupid!

quiet man
07-07-2003, 05:56 AM
You guys seen this? :)

Christopher M
07-07-2003, 06:21 AM
So no one's noticed the irony of criticizing the American people for making generalizations abouts others based on nationality yet, huh?

chen zhen
07-07-2003, 06:30 AM
Yes. But no-one generalizes other people more than americans. Ironic, huh?

Okami
07-07-2003, 12:25 PM
The ideal of American policy being militaristic is from the editorial of the book.

I will find that book, doggonit!

If I do, I will read it and try to give a better analysis.

As for the US bailing out European countries, I never meant to throw that into the ring. It is the case that some problems in the European community cannot be solved by diplomatic means. Sometimes ya just gotta fight.

Plato made a good argument against "might makes right", but in reality, the guy with the gun is usually in charge if he wants to be.
Not that it is right for the guy with the gun to be in charge or that the guy with the gun is the best man for the job. It's just that he weilds the physical power.

I find this upsetting at work myself.
I could kick my boss's butt anytime I want to, but would it do any good? In a system that allows me to kill him, yes. But in our current system the law of the land would make me the looser even though I am stronger.
What makes the international situation different is that the holder of the power can overpower the law of the land.

Marky
07-07-2003, 12:48 PM
"But no-one generalizes other people more than americans. Ironic, huh?"

So you're stereotyping most Americans as stereotypers? Now THAT'S ironic!

chen zhen
07-07-2003, 12:57 PM
:p


We can go on and on about this...:rolleyes:

Marky
07-07-2003, 01:07 PM
whoa..... that's deep man =)

The Willow Sword
07-07-2003, 02:07 PM
Well i, for one, dont give a good god Da@n What any other country thinks of america.

they are just jealous,,those foreign trash:mad:

those smelly french and dirty spanish,,,those dumb f#ck germans and those third world middle eastern rag head camel fuggers.
AMERICA IS THE BEST WERE NUMBER ONE. EVERYONE SHOULD SPEAK ENGLISH,,and if they dont theyre INFERIOR.. INFERIOR i tellya,,,.:rolleyes:


ok aside from making fun of the patriotic all american racist rhetoric i see and hear all the time.
i think it is sad that our foreign policy is what it is.

the PEOPLE or at least a good bit of them are NOT what thier governments' mentality is. its like that everywhere really.

our media is real fuc$ed up,,,i dont like em one bit. freedom of press is one thing that should be re-done and regulated.
how many more times do i have to hear or read about some person getting shot or a rape or some bullsh!t war that we shouldnt even be getting invloved in ie:middle east.

MRTWS

Christopher M
07-07-2003, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by The Willow Sword
freedom of press is one thing that should be re-done and regulated.

I assume you mean here, "I oppose freedom of press." It's oddly phrased; best to call a spade a spade. What I'm curious about though, is this: I believe your problem with the American media is it's bias towards the American government's perspective. That said, how will state control of the media (regulation) offer a solution? Isn't that just enforcing the very problem you have in the first place? :confused:


Originally posted by Okami
The ideal of American policy being militaristic is from the editorial of the book.

I understand, but I'm not sure how this changes my critique. Surely it should still stand?

From your "might makes right" discussion, it seems like you're still assuming (a priori) this premise is correct and looking for elaborations of it; whereas, again, I believe I've offered some fairly substantive reasoning as to why it's not.

Okami
07-08-2003, 06:48 AM
I don't disagree that the premise may be correct. It is just that it is not my premise.

We could examine the American vs Euopean policies as an Agressive vs Passive argument, or even in kung fu terms, external vs internal.

I don't think these general terms are adequate to faithfully discuss the issue, but they might provide an interesting starting point.

One way to look at this is to examine a problem. Any problem. How does one policy/ideal solve/deal with/resolve the problem. Both are effective in their own way, but the issue here seems to be with the means not the end.

Or perhaps it is the end that we need to examine. Maybe the "desired end state" of each policy/ideal and what means are they each prepared to utilize to acheive this end?

Wow, I must have eaten my philosopher cheerios this morning.

Christopher M
07-08-2003, 07:03 PM
This is what I'm confused about... you just wrote a whole post wondering about how to categorize the differences of two things, or how to explain the differences between them. What I'm saying is, what makes you think there's any differences to begin with?

Serpent
07-08-2003, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Christopher M
This is what I'm confused about... you just wrote a whole post wondering about how to categorize the differences of two things, or how to explain the differences between them. What I'm saying is, what makes you think there's any differences to begin with?

What makes you think there's not?

List your position succinctly (instead of picking apart people's posts) and people can respond to that.

Christopher M
07-08-2003, 08:20 PM
I did. It was my very first post on the topic. My first post of last page. No one has responded yet.

Serpent
07-08-2003, 08:23 PM
This one?


Originally posted by Christopher M


It seems like you've made a premise in your post: that American post-coldwar foreign policy is primarily militaristic, while that of Europe is diplomatic. You then consider contexts and observations to explain and elaborate upon this premise.

Well... have you considered that this premise itself is flawed?

Why might this be a possibility?

First we should consider the broader historical context. While you've limited your argument to the post-coldwar period, are you sure this is reasonable? Before this period, the history is dramatically against your position: consider European colonialism and the world wars. Considering the systematic, extreme, and long-standing discrepency between history and your position here, do you truly feel warranted in dismissing it after a single decade?

And is there even any reason, within this post-coldwar decade itself, to believe this history should be rejected?

How do you rationalize your position with the post-coldwar conflict in Yugoslavia? There are also other, albeit less obvious examples, of post-coldwar conflict internal to Europe, such as in the Czech Republic and Hungary.

Even if you limit the argument to some conception of "western" Europe, there are still significant problems to overcome. France is the world's largest arms dealer per capita; shouldn't this be considered? And they continue to enact military intervention around the world: classic examples would be ongoing French deployment in Chad and the Ivory Coast.

If you would like more examples, ask. But I believe that under the weight of this evidence, we must consider your original premise to be flawed. There's no reason to believe in the first place that Europe has distinguished itself for it's non-militarism.

Christopher M
07-08-2003, 09:37 PM
That's the one.

Okami
07-10-2003, 09:01 PM
Sorry if I missed the point of your question.

About differences.

In the case of Europe vs US there seems to be some kind of struggle going on. I am not sure if it is a struggle to be the global power, or the struggle to keep the other from being a global power, or something totally different. But when we are faced with two entities that are opposed ( even idealistically) there has to be a difference between the two to create the opposition.

Or you could follow the Parmenidean idea that all is one and the only thing that can exist is that which is. That which is not cannot exist so we can't talk about it. Therefore nothing is different.

Heraclitus teaches us the total opposite.

Plato studied both of these guys and tried to blend the unmoving/unchanging sameness in his world of Forms while the physical world changed.

Here I go again off on an ancient philosophy tangent.

Back to your question. I'll tackle one part tonight.
You state that looking pre-cold war Europe has not shown itself to be non-militaristic, and the argument posed in my post was impotent if the pre cold war history was examined.

Let me hit it with a different technique.
The history of either the US or Europe is irrelevent. What we are doing now is the point. When talking about the cold war policy, I was making a reference to a type of policy that is similar to one of the policies I was talking about. The policy during the cold war is not important, it was just an analogy or model.

What the groups are doing today are in opposition with diplomatic vs active intervention policys are the reason for the friction between Europe and the US.

I am bad for using historical examples and not indicating that they are not relavent to the discussion.

Christopher M
07-15-2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Okami
Back to your question. I'll tackle one part tonight.

Are you going to tackle the other part? Doesn't seem like any challenge to my remarks without it, is all...

Okami
07-16-2003, 06:11 AM
ChristopherM

After re-reading the posts you and I have posted I have decided that the historical context is irrelavent.

I touched on this in my last post.

What is going on now is what is important. The historical context does little for this discussion because the current ebb and flow of world politics does not seem to take it into account.

I appreciate the importance of the history of both entities, but they do not factor much into the discussion. The fact is that now there is a disagreement on how to handle foreign policy. The "how" now is the problem.

I started a book two days ago about strategy in the new world. It waxes historically to set the stage for its discussion, but talks mainly in the present (1995). One item it mentioned is that a fear of the smaller European countries is that the US will make one of 2 choices. One that it will become imperialistic or worse, that it will return to its isolationism policy (pre-WWI and WWII) and let the smaller countries fend for themselves. This is somewhat dated, being almost 10 years old, but seems to hit the target, if not the bulls-eye.

However, the colonialism of Europe, and the militaristic history of Europe is not relavent to the discussion except to build background for the current trend to use diplomacy instead of soldiers to solve problems.

Now I go back to work.

Christopher M
07-16-2003, 08:33 AM
Yes, but even if you accept that position, you haven't addressed my remarks, which mostly related to current events, not historical context.

BTW, I prefer Plotinus.

Chang Style Novice
07-16-2003, 08:35 AM
I've been meaning to ask, Chris - is it my imagination or is that an opium poppy?

Christopher M
07-16-2003, 08:36 AM
lol

Probably a little from door A, a little from door B...

Chang Style Novice
07-16-2003, 08:41 AM
So much for a straight answer. And learning that anasognosia means unawareness of illness isn't clarifying things any. Unless you are talking about heroin users being in denial about their addiction or something.

Christopher M
07-16-2003, 08:44 AM
Yes, it's a [pre] poppy. I don't know what kind. But according to your imagination it could be lots of things. You're bang on about the anosognosia remark.

Chang Style Novice
07-16-2003, 08:50 AM
OK, thanks, end of digression.

Christopher M
07-16-2003, 09:14 AM
Haha... no need; this is way more fascinating and hopefully more amicable than politics. Did you read much on anosognosia? It's really fascinating... it's not just denial of illness; it's true delusion, utter organic denial; the illness is not there. It's relatively common following certain strokes which cause paralysis of one side of the body; the patient will be anosognosic regarding the paralysis. The mind thinks up all sorts of crazy things to explain the discrepency between consciousness and reality... actually, technically it's those things we should call the delusion. People have been known to remark in disgust that a medical student has left a cadaver's arm in their bed - in an attempt to explain this unmovable arm. Somatoparaphrenia - denial of ownership of one's body parts!

Chang Style Novice
07-16-2003, 09:24 AM
Honestly, I only checked up enough to find out what it means. I did see some references to Oliver Sach's work, though, and although I've never read his stuff it's come highly recommended and my ear has been bent by some of his stories in the past.

Christopher M
07-16-2003, 09:30 AM
Yeah, his stuff is really interesting. Ramachandran's "Phantoms of the Brain" is even better, imho; organized more by concept than as case studies.

Chang Style Novice
07-16-2003, 09:43 AM
Well, you know what they say: if you want something dendrite, you have to do it yourself.

(I'm very sorry)

Christopher M
07-16-2003, 09:51 AM
I wish you could hear the noise I just made in response to that.

A priest was walking by, and he ran in swinging a crucifix.

norther practitioner
07-16-2003, 09:55 AM
Well, you know what they say: if you want something dendrite, you have to do it yourself.

ummmmmmmmm..........


(I'm very sorry)

As you should be....