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Jet Flame WC
10-11-2000, 01:44 AM
I was recently explorin' different styles and I came across one thing. Since i am WC, how would I deal with grapplers who like to fight on the ground?...grapplers like wrestling, shoot fighting, and jujitsu.....
just wonderin' ....wut kinda things should I avoid and what kind of things should i do to get out of the locks and takedowns.

BTW, nebody know any sites that talk about something like this bout how to deal with grapplers?...
thanx

"Those who try, keep trying. Those who do, finish." - LFP2

LEGEND
10-11-2000, 04:42 AM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...it's tough dude...as a wing chun man you have to be able to intercept a strike...that's wing chun specialty...dealing with a grappler, shootfighter or BJJ guy...you need to avoid the ground! HOW??? You have to stop them from taking you down...study wrestling!!! Wrestlers are expert of stopping a takedown attack...SPRAWLING TACTICs, CLINCHING AND KNEEING...www.royharris.com has good links to one scenario...when you achieve this you'll notice that you will be doing standing clinches with your opponent...similar to CHI SAO! Then you can strike...easier said than done! It will take awhile to get use to stopping takedown attacks.

A

jojitsu27
10-11-2000, 04:58 PM
If you want to actually learn to groundfight, this would be a very easy way to counter grapplers. Crosstrain in BJJ (brazilian jujitsu) it fits in quite nicely with wing chun and works miracles against wrestlers.
If you don't want to crosstrain and just want to be a "Pure" wing chun fighter, take your chi-sau a half range closer to your opponent. Learn to fight in the "cinch". Do drills that involve your opponent "clinching" with you and you working out of it back into short arm range.
Spar against wrestlers or other grapplers until you learn to defend against their tactics.
-jojitsu27

nhbfighter_57069
11-06-2000, 06:22 PM
As a wreslter (high school and college) and now training in 8 step the best tech. would be to learn how to sprawl (throwing your hip back when they shoot). It also depends what kind of wrestler you are going uo against. If he is a freestlye or greco wrestler, you have to watch for throws, usually from the clinch. Myself, I am a shooter, so if I am going to shoot, I wait for my opponet to over extend a punch or kick. It is alot easier to get a deep shot them. What I found best is punching and kicking from angles, that way any shot is not straight in on the hips. But, that does help a wrestler that like single legs. The best bet is to cross-train and learn ground tech. That way if you do get taken down you can defend yourself from your back also (from the guard.)

Martial Joe
01-28-2001, 01:52 AM
I study Wing Chun also and I think about that all the time.I asked my sifu that question one night,so the hole class that night was based on people taken you down,and he was explaning how you want your punches and kicks to be powerful enough to end the fight in one strike,I remember him pointing out a good way to stop some one going for your legs,he said if there face is below your waste just kick them in the face...thats about all I can say on the subject.

Joe :cool:

obiwan
01-29-2001, 04:06 AM
Well, I've never done judo til last September.

Walked in and defeated 17 students, without punching or kicking them, throwing them using their throws.

Using tai chi "chan se" basically, never gave em anything to grab. One guy did throw me, because i let him grab my gi.

But I beat everybody else.

Also, the teacher was an international wrestler, goes overseas for comps and all.

Controlled him too and when he went for the crash tackle, just drop your centre of gravity lower than his, and an upper cut in their lowered head will do nicely.

This guy weighs probably 10-15kg heavier than me too. If you can drop your centre of gravity while maintaining balance, it gives you a hell of an advantage.

BUT once a wrestler gets you on the ground, short of ripping his nuts off or poking his eyes out, then he's got you pretty firm.

That guy showed me some of his wrestling locks, and NO WAY could I get out of them.

Your only chance is to never let them have a chance to latch on. That's what wrestler's study too. If a lock is on, it's on!

The Force will be with you...always

Aquaines
02-21-2001, 05:15 AM
4 ranges of cmbat.grappling,striking,kicking,trapping.
also,all kung fu has chin na(seize and control) techniques. one defense against wrestlers,bjj playas,shootfighters is as follows:
SOMEONE TRIES To SCOOP U:
as they're coming in,1:simotaneously parry out of the way while smashing a palm strike into the corrotic artery of the neck(follows down the rear of the ear should result in a k.o.) while mind u all at the same time,turn strike into a grab at the back of the neck(wc clawhand,eagle claw)and also at the same time seize control of thair extended right arm with u'r left hand (i.e. strike and grab was with right hand).when u grab their extended arm,as close to elbow as possible.2:shift them off balance by pushing the head to the ground and pushing the controlled arm towards the shoulder blade making a spinning, almost flipping action sending that grappler to the ground.and as faras the breakfall goes,u can't do it k.o.'d or with that injured arm.
I,ve only studied traditional wing chun for 1yr and 9mos,lukily i have a great sifu! expierience proves me right in the defense described above.

[This message was edited by Aquaines on 02-21-01 at 08:25 PM.]

gazza99
02-21-2001, 07:37 AM
This question came up in my class yesterday as It often does. The answer is you simply do not play their game!! Play your own game, "If you have to go to the ground, get a new teacher" -Master Erle Montaigue, I train in the art of Dim-Mak/taijiquan..one strike will stop the attacker in his tracks..but I keep throwing strikes until there is nobody there to hit! You must not let anyone get a hold of you. If you are attacked from behind or something you can still use dim-mak strikes on the ground, you dont have to try and wrestle, or go for the "submission", go for the "elimination" as Chris Mckinley says.

Black Jack
02-21-2001, 07:40 AM
Nothing agasint Erle but that quote sucks.

In a real fight it is often very hard to always dictate what range you may end up fighting in.

Train for all ranges and you will be less surprised when it comes and trust me the ground range comes often if you want it to or not.

Dim Mak...Sim Mak.

Regards

gazza99
02-21-2001, 10:20 PM
Im sorry blackjack..I did not mention anything about RANGE!!! There is no such thing either he can hit you or he cant! If you know how to strike properly you will not have to go to the ground. This is not dictation, this is SKILL, and being able to react with the most dangerous of blows..sorry if you lack it.
kind Regards,
Gary

MonkeySlap Too
02-22-2001, 08:59 PM
Know your enemy and know yourself and you will be victorious in a thousand battles.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

hunggar
02-24-2001, 05:33 AM
well first of all i would try to avoid being on the ground, thats when your martial arts tranning should kick in. be aware of what they are trying to do and there next moves. their actions will dictate your next moves (self defense). so...if they were to rush in on me, going for my knees to take me down, i would use a knee to one of the many vital areas in the face with my hands locked behind their head and pulling the head down to meet my knee. or try sinking an elbow down the spine.