PDA

View Full Version : aikido vs. BJJ/wrestling



brucelee2
11-07-2000, 03:11 AM
How do you think aikido compares to BBJ and/or wrestling? What about practicality? I understand that aikido may be vulnerable to low kicks to the legs, but this may be true of BJJ and wrestling as well

11-07-2000, 08:33 PM
No offense to Aikido, but it is about as unrealistic as they come. Not to say they don't offer anything useful, but for the most part it is very unrealistic and an aikido guy would get flattened by a wrestler, judoka, or BJJ'er.

LEGEND
11-07-2000, 09:15 PM
Put it this way...do you practice what you preach??? when you play basketball...do you do one on one drills that allows an opponent to score on you or the opponent allows you to score on them??? Or do you agree with me and say you have to train full speed and have a resisting opponent??? The problem with AKIDO is their training is unrealistic...they do kata like sparring...BJJ and WRESTLING you're going against someone trying to beat you in the GAME...in a real fight same scenario...you train at what you are!!!

A

Janty Chattaw
11-08-2000, 01:53 AM
Man do all of you answer like this? Don't you think it is the person not the art? When I was in Aikido I squashed a few wrestlers in my time. That doesn't mean it is the system, it is the person using the system.
Only you can apply your arts to work, it is not the art that makes it work it is the person. Think about it.

Janty Chattaw
Bujinkan Budo taijutsu

brucelee2
11-08-2000, 03:53 AM
Apparently the Tokyo police and riot police are trained in Yoshinkan Aikido. Does that change anyone's opinion on the practicality of the art?

JerryLove
11-08-2000, 04:33 AM
"Only you can apply your arts to work, it is not the art that makes it work it is the person. Think about it."

So I should be able to counter triangle choke with ballet if I am the right person?

It takes a person to apply the technique, but you still need a technique to apply. It is the person *and* the art.

11-08-2000, 04:51 AM
Correct me If I am wrong but I believe that the Japanese police train heavily in Judo, which is a much more practical system for real combat than Aikido.

Kong Jianshen
11-08-2000, 05:25 AM
I think with a good 20 years of realistic application and training under your belt Aikido would work fine /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Just takes time.

Always seeking to learn,
Kong Jianshen
Humble disciple of the ancient Boxing Arts

kenpoman
11-08-2000, 09:33 AM
You practice what you're taught. I expect a Judo stylist to outgrapple a TKD stylist, and a boxer to outpunch a fencer. Along these lines, aikido is not known for teaching realistic combat/contact.

If we argue that it's the person and not the art, then we can transfer this to arguing a skilled swimmer should be expected to excel in archery.

LEGEND
11-08-2000, 02:40 PM
The person not the art talk is BS! The art makes the person fight a certain way...look at MIKE TYSON...before he trained with CUS DMATO he had amatuer like boxing skills...after years of training he became POLISH and was technically very sound! If a person is not train properlly to fight then he's screwed...akikdo is not a fighting art...so the guy who trains in akikdo will not be able to fight!

A

catfish
11-08-2000, 07:03 PM
As a student of aikido, I feel the need to set a few things straight here. First, it is ignorance to state that aikido is not a fighting art. The techniques of Aikido are derived from the Aiki-jujutsu that was refined for centuries on the battlefields of Japan befor being codified. The philosophy of the art does not emphasize the brutality inherent in some other fighting arts, nor does it address fighting in a competitive, sport environment. The techniques of Aikido provide a means of controlling an opponent and retaining the option of not killing him. Aikido students have a reputation of surviving life and death incedents due to the body movement that is trained before anything else in aikido. The focus is on avoiding the attack by moving off the line.
As for striking, some styles of aikido place more emphasis on striking than others, but it is present in every style. Is aikido complete? Does it have a specific plan for every possible turn of events? No, absolutely not, no art does. Is grappling better? I think that if I faced a grapller at my current level, (<1 yr. training) I would lose if I only used what I learned in aikido. It does take a good deal of time to atain proficiency in aikido compared to other, more competition oriented arts. Yoshinkan Aikido, which was mentioned earlier has more of a focus on imediate combat effectiveness, but ultimately, all Aikido styles train good fighters. After one, or two years of training, the grapler would still have the advantage, but after that, he starts to plateu (sp?) in fighting ability and the aikidoka continues to improve. The exception to this is the legendary Riot Police course, which is a year long, several hours a day, six days a week intensive course, which works by the same principle as learning a language by going somewhere where only that language is spoken, and crams 5-10 years of training into one intense year.
I certainly agree that Aikido has its weekpoints, but BJJ has week points as well (read, pavement, multiple attackers, weapons)

William J. Callahan

tsb
11-08-2000, 07:30 PM
Wow, Mike Tyson became Polish after years of training with Cus D'Amato? I sure couldn't see it. What kind of training program did Cus have back in the day?

yamato_damashii
12-14-2000, 10:16 AM
First of all, you can't say "aikidoka vs. grappler". Aikido IS a grappling art--it just focuses on controlling an opponent AS he enters your space, rather than AFTER (which is why aikidoka don't do well in wrestling or judo; the matches START OUT with the opponents in each other's space).
All Japanese police train in judo and kendo (for that matter, judo and kendo are required curricula in Japanese high schools). However, the Tokyo Riot police get special annual training in Yoshinkan Aikido.

The problem is, the form of aikido most people are aware of is aikikai, and aikikai isn't used properly anymore. Aikikai teaches aikido as Ueshiba taught it towards the very end of his life; most of his students at that time were student of other martial arts, so aikido had become a "polishing" art--it assumed you already had a basic repertoire of striking and in-grappling skills, so it focused on training students to feel aiki.
Yoshinkan is a prime example of the OTHER type of aikido. When Ueshiba first started teaching (having already earned a reputation by defeating every challenger in Japan!), his dojo was nicknamed the "Hell Dojo", because students struck and threw each other so hard. There were broken bones every night. This is the training that Shioda sensei put into Yoshinkan.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is, aikido has great POTENTIAL as a martial art, but it generally has a bad wrap in the West because it isn't taught properly.

Jason C. Diederich

Co-Founder, Yiu Dai S'uun Ancient Martial Arts
10,316th generation Dai Soke in an unbroken line of NHB Shaolin Ninja Marine successors
<A HREF="http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/rightway/yamato_damashii/" TARGET="_blank">http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/rightway/yamato_damashii/</A>