PDA

View Full Version : THREE PERSON ATTACK., WHO WOULD YOU TAKE OUT FIRST?



MASTERMAN
01-02-2001, 12:32 AM
Unarmed atttackers after easy pickings!


Semi circle around you. Who do counter first far left center or right?

Peace You Have the Power...
or don you?

Dave S
:D

JWTAYLOR
01-02-2001, 01:14 AM
The one most out of my immediate field of vison. Unless the environment was a factor as well, which, of course, it would be.

JWT

DragonzRage
01-02-2001, 06:03 AM
The ugly one :D

There is only one martial art.

Morpheus
01-02-2001, 10:42 AM
The leader.

One observes the survivors and learns from them.
Frank Herbert

hey_quit_throwin_elbows!
01-02-2001, 03:07 PM
um the one with the biggest boots cuz the other two are gonna be kicking me in the face with whatever they've got on their feet?

What is the deal with these fantasy scenarios? If you've gotten yourself cornered by three people with no way to run, you've already ****ed up bad and should take your beating as punishment for being a dummy.

rogue
01-02-2001, 05:13 PM
What sort of technique would you use JWT to take the guy out?

JWTAYLOR
01-02-2001, 06:02 PM
Well, now we're really getting hypothetical, but the three man surrounding you drill is one we do in class often. At first, I used a hard back kick into the center of the opponent's chest. For the not so bright foes, this worked fine. In reality, if people knew how to work together at all, this is not such a great plan. Unless it totally incapacitates the rear attacker, it just keeps him out of the mix for a moment and removes your attention from the fron two. Not really the goal. It doesn't really improve your position.
I have found great success in shuffling (a kind of step drag, not a crossover) to the left of the rear attacker, while trying to throw a simultaneous eye jab over my shoulder withe my left and a elbow to the solar plexus with my right. Ideally, my right leg ends up in front of his left. (Of course, you can reverse it all for the left side) A hip throw comes pretty easy here, even if the elbow wasn't so great. And now you've really improved your position, with all three in front of you, and one man on the ground in between you and the other two.

There is the danger that you would move into a bear hug or a choke, but your left hand up gives you allot of options against that.

JWT

MASTERMAN
01-02-2001, 08:13 PM
Your the first that really responded the way I wanted. Your descriptive made sense...

I would like to add a defender could add body "shearing" to the closest attacker (primary) with the stunned attacker acting as a shield against the others (secondary).

What do you think JWT? Or any of you other rock'em sock types?

You Have The Power.

Dave S :cool:

Black Jack
01-02-2001, 09:44 PM
If we are talking about a hypothetical situation than I would want to stay very mobile and use a lot of fast boxing tools, eyejabs and low line kicks.

If I have my tactical folding blade on me than I am going to go for that as a multiple attacker situation is a good enough reason to take those type of measures but if I can not deploy and I get caught up in some type of CQB or grapple situation I will be gouging my thumbs into there eyesockets, striking there throats, pulling there hair, elbows headbutts and knee blows to the temple, face and crotch, smashing, pinching, slapping and tearing at there testicles and if it comes down to it a lot of biting to the soft areas around the throat, cheeks, shoulder, nose and ears intell I can do a takedown or break away to regroup.

Vital targets like the eyes, throat, knees, groin and soft areas to grab and tear like a attackers lip are good places to start but enough can not be stated about a good old cross and uppercut combo. ;)

Regards

JWTAYLOR
01-03-2001, 07:31 PM
Using a stunned opponent as a shield against another one can be VERY helpful. However, body shearing in this case does not gaurantee that your opponent has really been neutralized, as it allows him to reposition (eventually). Because you have other threats, you can not stay in any position for long. So with a kind of floating check, it works great. But I think you can only manage it for so long. (You may be able to manage it allot longer than I :)
In other words, body shearing is vital in the very short term, the amount of time it takes to bend someone over into someone elses kick, for example. In the long run, however, I put emphasis on position, with body shearing being a tool to achieve it. And then yes, I like them on the ground in a big ol gooey mess.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

Scott
01-05-2001, 06:51 AM
I had to get into this one =)

First off, if I was in the situation, I would get my ass kicked. But assuming I was better, I imagine I would have to be three times as fierce as I would against one opponent.. Which means every attempted strike would be a decapacitating hit (eyes, throat, temple.) As a Wing Chun guy I imagine I'd have to be really fast, but I'd go for the one to the left or right first (putting me slightly further away from the one on the opposite end) And I'd go straight for chain punches/eye jabs, throat strikes. Hopefully i'd disable him in a matter of 1 or 2 seconds, which is all I'd have.. then on to the next closest one. I imagine my only advantage here would be to be ferocious, because that would more than likely be unexpected. Act like I'm so good that I am attacking them, not the other way around.

Then again, do what your skill level tells you to do. Mine tells me to kick the nearest one in the groin and run.

-Scott

"You have to consider the possibility that god does not like you; he never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. It is not until we have lost everything that we can do anything."

MonkeySlap Too
01-05-2001, 09:41 AM
I'd talk them out of it.

If that doesn't work, I'd work to line them up and get them in each others way. In these situations I rely oin crashing with my oponents and letting fly power strikes. Leg reaping and shoulder throws are also good for demoralizing (as well as de-lifeing) attackers in a life threatening situastion - if you know how to apply them. If I had the liberty to pick and choose, I'd go for the armed guy first.

If I noticed any firearms at first, I'd gut THAT guy like a trout and **** the rest. It takes an average of fifty feet to draw and fire, and I won't give him that. After that I'd worry about his buddies, who are probably tossing cookies at this point. The risk here is getting monkey piled, but I usually have plenty of tools at my disposal in order to get an edge.

MASTERMAN
01-08-2001, 11:05 PM
MonkeySlap,
In a multiple attack situation talk to much and will lose an advantage.

Commit act and end the situation in seconds. Hands,feet,rips, headbutts, biting pounding and continious positioning will do the trick.

What do you think? If you must defend - attack and don't stop until they are down and out. Only takes a few seconds.

You Have The Power,

Dave S :cool:

JerryLove
01-08-2001, 11:36 PM
Here is a really basic scinerio. 3 people at the edge of striking range all closing in rapidly to punch you and pull you down. As pointed out, worst case is that they are going to hit you near-simultaniously, so we'll deal with that.

Now, you don't want to stand there. That's what *they* want you to do. So where to move? If they are all reasonably on one side, run the other way. But lets presume you are reasonably surrounded. First, you want to stop them from reaching you all-at-once. To do that, move toward one of them. Who do you move for? The closest. That makes him even closer. Now, he has two options. He can go for you (he is now at you before everone else, so for that 1/2sec you have attackers in serial) or, he can back up (if that makes an opening, run, otherwise go back to the beginning of these steps).

So, we assume he attacks and the others are 1/2sec or so away fom joining him. Grappling is now *very* important. But you don't want anything that ties you up more than that 1/2sec (like a choke or clinch) because then you'll be back to them attacking you all at once. If he swings, you want to pass along the attack (with whatever technique you can get to work for you quickly.) If he grabs and you cannot get out in under that 1/2sec, you need to reverse positions with him. Another grappling skill. Once you have done that (you are now on the outside of the group) again, run.

MonkeySlap Too
01-09-2001, 01:17 AM
Masterman, I agree with taking the initiative, but I speak from experience on talking first.
Living in one of the nastier sections of Chicago for several years gave me the opportunnity to experience this first hand. I talked my way out of several multiple attacker scenarios. It is really a judgement call, but it works. The only time I didn't was when a buddy of mine was being slaughtered by seven guys. I had to take action.

Back to talking: There is a great book out called 'coercion' that details marketing methods and how they convince you of things. The section on selling reveals several of the techniques I have used. The goal is to get your adversaries to disassociate themselves from what is happening. This creates a mental gap that you can use to change thier perspective on you as a target, or to then take advantage of and clobber them.

I have talked my way out of far more unwanted conflicts than I have fought in. And hey, doesn't Sun Tzu offer up the advice that the highest mastery is to win by not having to fight?

I personally feel that understanding human psychology and how to manipulate in times of crisis is a vastly important skill in self defense.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

MASTERMAN
01-09-2001, 04:15 AM
I agree with you up to point. My comments are based on no other options. I agree with your Art of War reflection. However I believe in defense that is not totally predictable.

Secondly, I didn't know you live in Chicago we are almost neighbors. Hope to see you in February, if not then maybe in March18 Annual Open championship in Chicago.

Later and Peace,
Dave S ;)

MonkeySlap Too
01-09-2001, 06:06 PM
Actually I've moved to the SF bay area, but I spent most of my life in the windy city.

E-mail me some info on the tournament if you can. Maybe some of my guys in Chicago can show to the tournament.

I'm still waiting on my details for the Minnesota trip. Stay tuned.

As to the topic, yeah I see what your saying and agree for the most part with all the posters here. You just have to go for it, and hope you have luck in battle.

Actually training these scenarios in school is good practice, especially if you can build the students adrenaline rush while they are doing it. So in other words - you betcha.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

Eric
01-13-2001, 06:16 AM
The interesting thing you may find about being confronted by more than one person, is that, chances are, there is only one that really wants to fight you, the others are just there acting tough. So the guy that is more agressive, trying to start the fight, will be the first to go. This is the guy I will go for first, and I will be taking out eyes, and crushing a larnex when I go for him.

When the other two see their buddy trying to scream while his eyeball is hanging out of his head and he is choking on his dislodged adams apple, they will more than likely decide against taking any further action other than turning and running.

Or they will pull a gun and shoot you, ..
To me its worth the chance.
ESR

TaoBoxer
01-13-2001, 10:25 PM
A buddy of mine teaches tactical knife and handgun courses all over the US. Part of his course deals with just this topic.

He says that in a 2 attacker scenario...shoot the unarmed or little guy first. rason being is when there are 2 of them...they have "the force of numbers" against you. Take out the smallest guy first (free shot)and the bigger guy, or the one who is armed, still has Size, and Weapon.

In a 3 attacker...I would say take out the armed guys, or the biggest guy...then they have the force of numbers still. Then the smallest, then whats left.

just one point of view.....

BIU JI
01-14-2001, 01:50 PM
A man sticks a gun in your face, what do you do, geees!

Vankuen
01-15-2001, 08:05 PM
First I want to say that training in multiple opponents is great training, because it teaches one to act fast and end each altercation as soon as possible to make way for another oncoming attack.

However lets look at this logically. Think about all those opponents you fought in your past that were of your skill level. Remember how difficult it was to defeat them? Now think of having three of them around you? Not so good is it?

The idea that one person can defeat many others has been a long time fantasy and ideal of many martial arts and gung fu students. But the realistic truth is that it doesnt happen often. Assuming these guys that are surrounding you are of remotly good skills, you most likely will not be able to prevail to the end...with you standing and three (four, five whatever...) on the ground around you.

Even those of us that are at advanced levels, can only do so much. Being a martial artist doesnt make you superhuman. Its easy for any one of these attackers to have hidden blades and/or guns, and it takes only a second to get that knife in your side, or to **** them off enough for them to pull the gun and simply shoot you.

Bad situation no matter how you look at it. If youre in it....pray and fight as much as you can...but be smart and run when you see the opening.

MASTERMAN
01-15-2001, 09:19 PM
Greetings Vankuen,

Your observations are right on target. I was hoping somebody would bring up logical conclusions based on one's training and the reality of the situations.

You Have The Power,

Dave S :D :D :D

Vankuen
01-16-2001, 06:34 AM
Thank you for the welcome masterman. I just say it as I see it! I am new to this forum...but plan to be putting my two cents in all over the place! Till then...

eccesignum
01-16-2001, 07:01 PM
take out the one between you and the door!

-----------------------
Do Not Enter the Dining Hall Until You Are Fully Cleansed