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nowhesings
01-09-2001, 01:55 PM
In Wing Tsun there's something known as the "one way solution", meaning if someone attacks or enter the safe area I move forward in a "safe" way, occupying the centerline and warding of any attack, punch and/or kick at the same time. This is because of the difficulty in identifying an attack and then doing the right counter-movement - it goes too fast! This would be one safe answer to all attacks.

To me it works fine, I don't worry about feints and I build in an aggressive defence in my subconscious. But what's your and your styles ideas? Do you answer and attack like in the fixed sparring sets I used to do in Wado Ryu, or have you got your own "one way solution" or streetfighting trick?

Arvid

MASTERMAN
01-09-2001, 05:56 PM
I don't advocate "fixed" sparring drills. We do them up to a point.

Everything I do is realized in sparring. Close kicking pay back strikes (counter) for all distances or zones. We work hard on 3/4 feet positions to free up both sides for defense and counters.

I am a strong believer in Joe Lewis Fighting System. It is a clear and concise approach to defense physically and mentally.

You have The Power,

Dave S :)

JerryLove
01-09-2001, 07:00 PM
I sparred a woman once who had been doing WC for many years. She felt defending the centerline that way would work. It didn't.

Knifefighter
01-09-2001, 08:45 PM
Tony Blauer's system is based on a single response concept and it works well. You can't really use it in a sparring situation, but more of a real-life encounter type thing. It's based on your body's flinch response. It's worth checking out.

<A HREF="http://www.TonyBlauer.com" TARGET="_blank">www.TonyBlauer.com</A>

nowhesings
01-10-2001, 10:58 AM
Jerry, in what way didn't it work? Was she going too much forward, and u were able to go sideways around her perhaps? Or what happened?

HuangKaiVun
01-10-2001, 01:34 PM
At 5'4" 130 lbs, that "one-way solution" sometimes works for me, sometimes not.

I don't have the mass to push people off balance, and my lack of reach prevents me from getting past an opponent's guard.

Should the opponent try to grapple, I often find myself overwhelmed and forced to go to the ground - which is to my disadvantage when fighting multiple opponents.

I fight each opponent differently based on what they present me with.

nowhesings
01-10-2001, 04:46 PM
Of course every fight is different, depending on your opponent aswell as your self (mood, being drunk perhaps etc). But what I basically meant was do you rely on your fast reflexes - a scenario like "if he does this attack I'll be able do identify it and counter before he hits me".
Even when I did semi-contact karate I had to depend to some degree on luck when doing this, and sometimes I had the flow and techniques came by themselves, but in WT I have that flow more often. To me it seems that you have to be either much better trained or very lucky to make the "budo-block" work.

JerryLove
01-10-2001, 04:55 PM
She was vunerable to attacks to the limbs. She also tended to have problems with extremely low kicks and with attacks in unison (hitting with 3 limbs simultaniously).

Of course, this was many years ago and my memory is fuzzy.

MonkeySlap Too
01-10-2001, 08:58 PM
I've found Wing Chun (Tsun, Ctsun whatever...) practitioners to be particularly vulnerable to boxing handwork (They chase my arms, I break thier nose) and low line attacks. Many of the transitions to traps used by WC allow for perfect throw set ups.

This is not to say that WC is in any way bad, these are just my observations. All styles have strengths and weaknesses, which is why you need to spar outside your style to learn your own.

In terms of 'one way', simplicity is the key. I tend to think more in terms of lines of force. For each line of force I know how to give and take force, from this simple formula, techniques come of thier own accord based the principles of my training.

Of course, to play this way took me about the first 15 years of training to develop. Lots and lots of technical study and sparring/fighting. And of course the occasional wake up call that rings your bell.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

Kyoshu
01-11-2001, 03:30 AM
I always found a one way solution to most attacks is throwing something hard at them and taking off.

Kyoshu

obiwan
01-11-2001, 05:46 AM
I think this tactic does not consider the fact your opponent maybe baiting you.

First thing I do in a fight is give the opponent a hole to attack at.

I paraphrase Sun Tzu, "Always give your enemy a place to go, or they will turn desperate and fight harder."

So that way I anticipate the attack, not matter what, cos i dont intend to be there for the attack, or at least be ready for it. So the one way solution maybe walking right into a trap. That's why I dont think there is such a simple solution.

As for fighting Wing Chun. I fought an instructor once. It seemed to me that that school of Wing Chun fails to realise I can still pressure the centre line while moving in a different direction.

Ths while he was arm tangling me, I'd already moved my body, then, shoved forward jamming his arms and legh sweeping him simultaneously. The Basic Wing Chun stance he showed me, (knees pointing into one another) was completely immobile in terms of rotation.

I basically danced around him and clobbered him. Also, long fist tangling works really well since you can trap both their arms easily, since in their basic stance, the arms are so close together.

Maybe it was just a bad school, but really that too easy. Simple tactics worked against it,
I quote Senryaku, "Feint east strike west" So I let him think he was jamming my arms, then took him out.

Anyway, here's hoping someone doesnt make me eat my words someday! :)

The Force will be with you...always

nowhesings
01-11-2001, 09:10 AM
Obiwan, I used to do these kind of things too, like givin a hole to attack and moving from there. But to me that never worked very well, 'cause my opponent seldom did what I was hoping, and then I had gone in my own fixed-plans-trap. But then again, the Wing Tsun sort of always-movin-forward-plan could also be a trap in itself, like you said.
Sun Tzu has a good point I think, but the opponent always has the way back to go - he could run away.

Monkeyslap, I agree chasin the arms is a danger but an even bigger misunderstanding of WT. Trying to start chi-sauing or something will do no good. It's fun to do, but stupid and overconfident in a fight.
The arms goes for the head and other target areas, it's not until something stops the way we should possibly start trappin, but only to free the way to another attack. Trappin and using "chi-sau-reflexes" is not the goal - hittin fastest and easiest possible is more like it.

Thanx

Tigerdragon
01-14-2001, 11:15 AM
There is only one true deffense for all attacks. And that is to NOT BE THERE.

After all. What if the attacker is a westler or BJJer. If you move in to crowd them, you just moved in to their range. What if you move back but stay there to fight...well you give him/her more time to study you and look for a weakness and so on. In reality there is no one defense for everything except to not be there to be attacked.
Just my thoughts

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind, be ready, and go full force.

Vankuen
01-16-2001, 07:50 AM
One defense...hmm. The only experience I have with one defense, is what I call a "cover" or an "energy block".

Its existence lies within many systems, muay thai, wing chun, even traditional gung fu. The idea behind it is that when the opponents attacks are too many or too fast..then you have that option to do whatever you can to defend against it. Covering consists of placing your arms around you so that it forms a barrier around the front and sides of your upper torso. This defense does not work against low torso and low line kicks to the legs obviously.

I dont believe other that what was previously mentioned about "not being there", that there is just one thing you can do to defend. You can have one concept that has many variables or variations...but other than that...you have to rely on plain skill.

The high road is no easy path, but has the most rewarding destination.

Tigerdragon
01-18-2001, 02:38 PM
Vankuen,
You are free to disagree with what I said about "not being there" but by definition that is true. The question was for a defense for "ALL" attacks. The power block, or cover up, that you mentioned doesn't provide this. By your own admition it does not block low level strikes, and its even posible to slip a punch between the arms in this guarded position.

Now I mean no direspect, and I'm not trying to argue. I am just making my point a little more clear. There is an endless number of thing you can do to defend yourself against 1 or multiple attackers, however there is no single move/block/technique that will stop any and all attacks from getting to you except to not be there for those attacks.

I am not talking about manuvering or evasion. I'm simply talking about not letting yourself get into that situation.
Just my thoughts on the matter

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind, be ready, and go full force.

Vankuen
01-28-2001, 08:18 AM
I said that OTHER than what you said about not being there.....that there was really no one technique that can defend all attacks, so in essence I was agreeing with you...and yes...the cover that I mentioned is not a universal one...but a backup plan so to speak when youre overwhelmed. thats why I affirmed that it doesnt cover "everything" . Just to clarify for you

Tigerdragon
01-29-2001, 09:08 AM
I did misinterpret what you said. I apologize.

Eric

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind, be ready, and go full force.

apoweyn
02-01-2001, 07:50 PM
Tigerdragon,

I can't argue with you that evasion (not being there) is about the only defense that would work across the board.

The only thing that occurs to me is that, to my mind, evasion is only as good as what follows it. That's not very well phrased, is it.

If you can evade and get away, then all's well. But if you can't get away, you won't be able to evade forever. At some point, you'll have to address the problem a bit more directly.

Not an argument with your point. I can find no fault with it. But it made me think of this, so there you have it.

Cheers.

Stuart

Alex01
04-02-2001, 02:54 AM
In my limited abilities and knowledge in martial arts i have found this one method that will almost always work in a street fight. Here goes,
-oponent takes one aggressive step foward
-i take one defensive step back
-opponent looks as though he's serious
-i throw the strongest punch i can
-then follow with 10 - 20 more of the strongest punches i can

knowing what's going down before it happens is just as important as knowing what to do when it happens. when someone asks me what im going to do if they throw a punch at me i tell them the truth. I have no idea.

Lazy Fists