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Munz
03-28-2000, 12:01 PM
hey guys
i'm still in yr 12 and have been doing wing chun for 6 months now. i'm generally a pacifist, as well as the group of guys i hang around with, and i will usually opt for a peaceful option. however, my friends and i are fast becoming sick of wannabe-toughs trying to pick fights with us, assuming that were easy pickings because we're not particularly threatening. they are usually some drunk git with his friends trying to show off at parties, school dances etc. i know this really isn't the best solution, but we've decided we need to set an example. if i were to grab the next guy by the back of the head when he starts pushing me and swearing and stuff, and slam my elbow into his face, would that drop him?? (no previous experience, not quite sure what works 8) )

03-28-2000, 07:08 PM
You wanna take a guy out quick? Learn some judo or jiu-jitsu. Learn the chokes, especially the REAR NAKED choke. When you hit a guy, you can't say for certain if you will drop or not because you don't know what kind of chin he has, the guy might be near impossible to knock out. BUT, everyone's brain needs blood, you can be the toughest guy in the world, but once that choke is on, goodnight. It won't be very hard getting one on an unskilled opponent. But don't go trying this stuff unless you learn it properly first. you need to learn how to revive someone from a choke, and how to know when to stop.

nospam
03-29-2000, 03:26 AM
"git" Munz, you must be from Oz.

Hey, if you or your buddies decide to take the plunge then do it. One word of advice? Don't do anything you wouldn't do if you were alone. Get me?

shenden
03-29-2000, 10:47 PM
Hi,
I don't think that there are many attacks that will knock someone down so they won't get up and hit you back if they are really intent on hurting you.

Sure an elbow to the face will deter someone from attacking you, or it may just make them want to kick your butt some more. You having a background in Wing Chun, I wouldn't worry too much about being in a fight. Having used to be a bit of a scrapper, a reputation which still hangs over me today, although with little reason, with training you will win your fight.

I don't suggest using a choke or joint lock, it leaves you too open from their mates, who may also want to join in. A strike to the face is always a good tactic to open with, then stick close, jam his attacks and try to chain punch.

I don't condone fighting, but I do think if this is getting to be a problem, it needs to be solved. Fight how you feel at your best, and trust your system, and you should win. Nerves and fear of being hurt are your biggest opponents, not the guy you are fighting.

I say this assuming you have sparring experience, and have been hit properly a few times, so you know how it feels.

Bottom line, you have to be committed to fighting the guy, if you're unsure about hitting him, don't. Self doubt will make you lose.

Just my opinions, but try not to make a habit of beating people up because of the feeling you get during or afterwards, and do not allow yourself to be easily provoked.

JWTAYLOR
03-29-2000, 11:54 PM
On the actual question:
Yes, that particular attack you described works incredibly well for delivering ALLOT of dammage in one blow. If done at all correctly (and if you maintain control of the head with the gripping hand, meaning don't let go when you hit him) the inward elbow to the face will, on most occasions, brake allot of facial bones. If aimed at the temple, there is the real possibility of brain damage or, in extreame cases, death. I broke a guy's cheek and nose with that move. (Heal palm instead of a grab though, makes for a good counter hit/backstop.) So be prepared to do this kind of damage.

However, if you aren't forced to fight, don't fight. It's that easy. When I was your age I got into allot of fights because I was too **** arrogant to back down when people messed with me. Fortunately, I grew up.
I strongly suggest you keep your current pacifict attitude.
The reputation you are attempting to create will not be the one you get.
I suggest public hummilation first. It can be far more rewarding and you will be sure to get your much desired fight in when he and his friends gang up on you later.
JWT

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If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

Brat
03-30-2000, 01:58 AM
Munz, have you ever tried standing up to this guy-calling his bluff? You might be able to stop the fight before it begins. I remember when I was twelve and if it is one thing all twelve year olds hav ein common its they they are"big talk-little action." Anyway if you confront him and he doesn't back down, then you could face off against him and-may the best man win. But if I don't miss my guess, if hes like most he'll back down. If this happens then everyone, including him, will know that he chickened out and he will be exposed for the big nothing that he really is. If you hit him with a sucker move then he and hsi friends can say that you caught him offgaurd, and that you got lucky. This could be used as justification for further altercations. In my experience few people are actually willing to put it all on the line. Most "tough guys" mainly want to make you and everyone else think they want to fight when in reality they never have any intention of going at risk.

JWTAYLOR
03-30-2000, 02:23 AM
Brat,
I think he means he's in the 12th grade, not that he's 12 years old.

But I think your advice is sound either way.
JWT

Kyoshu
03-30-2000, 06:11 AM
I've always found people tend to fall on their a$$ after a quick headbutt when they push you. Then I'd just stomp on his head.

Kyoshu

Munz
03-30-2000, 04:33 PM
8) Thanks guys.
Yeah.. I was a little worried about the damage factor - we want to take them down, but brain haemorraghing is a little extreme. Perhaps a round of chain punches and a knee or two to the midsection should at least give me a solid start - without breaking anything 8)
Its not a single person doing it, its more just all the toughies who see people having a good time and decide to turn it into an ego boost. Trouble is, most of the time their drunk, and they WON'T back down - and if we let it pass, then they'll probably go find some kid a few years younger than them, and start on them. Being peaceful is one thing, but i think people should know that that kind of behaviour isn't acceptable (sorry, i'm really not trying to be a hero or a vigilante here, just speaking my mind 8). And humilitating them verbally may work for us, if they don't try to recover their dignity, but then they have more to prove, so they get fired up and then they go beat the crap out of some other guy. Fortunately, i have some fairly capable friends for my age in these stakes if needed. 8)
Thanks for the advice!!

04-01-2000, 05:32 AM
Munz,

A choke works great. And contrary to popular belief you can do one standing, you don't have to be on the ground. So it leaves you no more open to attack from his buddies than punching him would. In fact when you choke someone there is that factor of intimidation, people get scared when they see someone choked, they don't want it done to them.

JWTAYLOR
04-03-2000, 12:12 AM
Any time you are wrapped up with one opponent, (especially if you have two hands on him and your feet are fairly stable), you are more oppent to attack from others. It doesn't matter if you are standing or not. The issue is a lack of mobility.

On the other hand, I'll definately give you the choke intimidation thing. I don't know why this is but it just seems to confuse the hell out of people.

JWT

stickfighter
04-10-2000, 12:01 PM
All have given you good advise, but I have to question the use of a choke. You said that you are usually dealing with more than one "bully", taking the time to go for a choke on any one of them leaves you open to attack from the others. Bullies are essentially cowards and can rarely fight alone. Since you are learning Wing Chun you might already be aware with the Straight or Center-line Punch. Although I'm not trained in Wing Chun I have read alot about the style and it's Centerline theory. I've always liked the idea of a straight blast to the opponent's sternum. A strong strike here will usually knock the air out of an opponent, and can even crack his sternum.
Just Something to think about! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



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Stickfighter

[This message has been edited by stickfighter (edited 04-11-2000).]

Munz
04-11-2000, 12:40 PM
thanks for all the advice... fortunately i haven't needed any of it yet 8)
however, we've got the entire yr 9 & 10 student body of my school wanting to take on my friends and i.... it may be an easy fight one on one against a little kid - when theres 30 or 40 of them however.... 8)

stickfighter
04-11-2000, 10:20 PM
Take out the leader first, the rest will probaly lose confidence. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Stickfighter

Dustin
04-12-2000, 06:25 AM
Munz where do u live? =) If By any chance in or around California let me know I plan to be doing some traveling here when i get my tax return and I myself have had some lessons in humilty in my time and it did a world of good. So if I am passing through your area lemme know and maybe I can stop by a party with ya :P Not to say I am all big and tought but hey I am good enough hehe especially if they are just untrained wanna be tough guy people. hehehe

IronBuddha
04-13-2000, 08:27 PM
chokes are good. start choking him and make sure to stay mobile while doing it -- drag him backwards at angles as you sink your weight. he will be between you and his friends and you will be on the move -- a harder target to hit.
once he starts convulsing, drop him and attack one of his friends that you probably just scared the sh!t out of

Morpheus
04-15-2000, 01:57 PM
Munz
All good advice here. Just a pointer from someone else fortunate enough to live in Gods-Own country. Under Qld. law you can do whatever is deemed 'reasonable' if you are assaulted, but if you start it you're probably in trouble. Any training at all leaves you open to prosecution for aggravated assault/assault with a deadly weapon, even if it's only two weeks lessons. Since you're in grade 12 I assume you're 17 or close to it, and under Qld. law you will be tried as an adult. First conviction you'll probably get a fine and 6-12 months suspended, but the risk of 3 months in Boggo Road is a hell of a price to pay for teaching a bully a lesson. There is far more to be gained in backing down and allowing your opponent to save face, but I know how hard that is when you're 17. I don't understand why half the junior students are out to pick you blokes, but I suspect that you could benefit from an interesting little book called 'The gentle Art of Verbal Self Defence'
If you are detremined to try this then I think that there are basically only 3 places that will take out any opponent : eyes, throat and groin. Unfortunately only the groin strike has a fairly low risk of doing permanent damage. Good luck
By the way, where is Karalee? I thought I'd seen all of the state so assume it's in the SE corner somewhere.

ATENG
04-23-2000, 11:43 PM
Perhaps the most applicable wing chun principle in this situation is: yield

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Its all fun and games til someone loses an eye. Then its just fun.

JKDVIGILANTE
05-05-2000, 04:48 PM
Why don't you guys just organize yourselves, hire DON KING and do it right? Fight for money only!

Tiny Dragon
05-14-2000, 01:56 AM
wow, it sounds like your is a school warzone... if you've told anyone that you do martial arts, it'll get around and you'll be asked to spar or fight with a thousand and one people, jus' say that you're not all that how at martial arts, if they still come at you... dude, jus' cream-em, they got warned but they didn't listen! You haven't been training too long so don't go getting into any situations that you can't handle... Peace...
B.T.W- I'm in 11th... so... well you're understood.
Good luck

[This message has been edited by Tiny Dragon (edited 05-14-2000).]

willfu
05-14-2000, 08:15 AM
Wow you have a messed up school. I say go with the idea of taking out the leader. But make sure there is no doubt about who won the fight.

Wudang
06-06-2000, 08:07 AM
I agree with Tiny Dragon- as soon as you announce that you have any "experience", every so-called "tough guy" will want to challenge you.

If they are all talk, ignore them. If it comes to blows, however, it depends on many factors- their size, your size, the number of friends to back you up, etc.

If you have no other choice than to fight, there are many techniques that I can't even begin to describe in such a small space- ( pulling the nearest towards you to use as a shield, using techniques not based on strength, etc.)

Sometimes even the simplest techniques can have the most effect, such as a finger in the eye, or a knuckle in the notch below the trachea (only used in extreme situations!)

If weapons aren't involved, a fight such as this doesn't usually require such drastic measures (anything that would maim). You can't use any more force than is required to defend yourself. For example, YOU will be in trouble if you maim someone if you weren't in any serious physical danger.

It also sounds like you need to start going to better parties. If you don't want trouble, why hang out where trouble congregates?

[This message has been edited by Wudang (edited 06-06-2000).]

shawn28
06-15-2000, 03:22 AM
Munz

I say if you really want this guy
catch him alone and tell him lets settle
this and get it over with. Then right
there will tell you if he is all
talk or not.
SM