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overdemon
09-01-2000, 02:58 AM
I don't know how some of you will think about this!?!(because some of you are cops!)
But I know some of you have been attacked by a cop!
And is not usual that you attacked a cop!
but these things happen! /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Have many of you fought a cop before?
What moves do they have?
What style are they using?(Karate???)
And how to beat them!

Karol
09-01-2000, 04:14 AM
My aiki-jutsu instructor is a police officer. He is also well trained in karate. And to answer your question you don't want to fight a cop, EVER .

jimmy23
09-01-2000, 08:05 AM
never fight a cop, even if ya win,youll get charged and the police will beat your ass once youre in custody.
what a silly question.

Sihing73
09-01-2000, 05:42 PM
Hello,

When I first saw this thread I was a little offended. I mean after-all don't the good cops have enough to worry about without us trying to figure out the best way to beat them up? But then I gave this a little more thought. There are indeed places in the world where the government abuses its citizens and sometimes one needs to fight back. The United States came aobut as a result of fighting back against those in authority.

Having said that let me make myself clear. The best way to fight a cop who abuses his authority is in a court of law. The law does not allow you the option of resisting arrest or fighting back even if you know/believe you are being wronged. Your legal recourse in in the courts. An officer may be charged with abuses of office and crimes just like anyone else. It is true it may be harder to get a conviction but it is possible.

As to what Police learn in training; it is highly inadequate and not standardized across the board. Most departments have very little hadn to hand training and the little they do have is mostly karate or perhaps jujitsu. The PA State Police train in Boxing but once you have graduated from the academy there is very little formalized training done. I think you will find that the police who know hand to hand techniques do the training on their own and not through the department.

Peace,

Dave

Taomonkey
09-02-2000, 09:14 AM
FYI. Never Never fight a cop as the others here have said. Here's why, Police train several hours a week with their side arm, mabey once a month with their asp (baton) and a weekend course mabey twice a year in hand to hand. In a real defense situation the officer will go to what he is most trained at, his gun, especially if he thinks you are a MA. My best advice is to avoid being on that side of an officer in the first place. And dont say that it sometimes just happens, because looking back, I could tell you the exact moment I made the wrong choice each time I have been in trouble with the law. MA has helped me to see those wrong choices and how to avoid the situation in the future. The Greatest Fight Won, is the one never fought!
Having said all that,,

Naoshu
09-02-2000, 10:32 AM
.....Why would a cop attack you?....

lee-JKD
09-03-2000, 02:44 AM
best way to fight a scum cop i would shoot the **** feed his body to some pigs so they eat the bones=no cop never found /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif or u could do a 1 inch punch to the heart followed by a finger jab to blind him then choke him out then jump on his head well thats what i would do what about u guys?

totallyfrozen
09-03-2000, 04:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lee-JKD:
best way to fight a scum cop i would shoot the **** feed his body to some pigs so they eat the bones=no cop never found /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif or u could do a 1 inch punch to the heart followed by a finger jab to blind him then choke him out then jump on his head well thats what i would do what about u guys?[/quote]

You're truly an idiot...but you already know that, right?


[This message has been edited by totallyfrozen (edited 09-03-2000).]

totallyfrozen
09-03-2000, 05:08 AM
what a stupid question (IMHO).
Never, fight a cop! Period. You have heard this already in the other posts.

ASSUMING YOU ARE IN THE UNITED STATES:

It's against the law for you to fight a cop and/or resist arrest...period.
It is a FELONY to fight a cop...it's not a misdemeanor..make no mistake...it's a felony. You will be seriously f*cking yourself if you fight a cop.

I have worn a side arm a bit over the years...so I am aware of what it feels like to "feel" the gun on your hip. Your gun is ALWAYS in the back of your mind. A cop knows that he/she has a gun and if you try to fight the cop...the cop will assume you are trying to take the gun. The cop will feel endangered for his/her life..and you will likely get shot to death.
Any attempt to fight a cop is going to cause the cop to "guard the gun" from being taken. This is going to lead you you finding the gun pointed in your direction. Cops can and will shoot you if you are threatening their lives. They may have to explain the shooting...but the law is on thier side.

Cops have good aim. I know a few and they practice shooting every week.
I am a very good shot myself but I would never attempt a gunfight with a cop...they are REALLY good shots...even under stress.

Besides, you can't outrun the radio. The cops WILL get you sooner or later.

Not to mention, MOST cops (by far) don't go looking to pick on people and start fights. Why the hell would you want to fight a cop?
Don't fight cops.
If I was driving down the street and saw someone fighting a cop who was alone, I would stop and help the cop. I hope that most other MA would do the same.
Don't fight cops.

Have you ever been "attacked" by a cop? Did you stop to ask yourself why? Cops know how to cover there asses in court. Even if a cop was in the wrong...you aren't going to get any help from a judge if you fought the cop.

------------------
"There is only ONE martial art"

[This message has been edited by totallyfrozen (edited 09-03-2000).]

overdemon
09-03-2000, 06:17 AM
I'm not in the USA!!!!
have you ever seen the most corruptest cop ever????
have you ever seen a cop lock someone in jail before with more then 20 person in a jail???

overdemon
09-03-2000, 06:25 AM
hey you're right about helping other cop!
but have you ever been pullover before?
one friend of my have. all he did was he step out the car and put his hand on the inside his jacket and suddenly the officer reach for his gun!The both of them were shock about this.what happen if the officer shoot my friend?
and for the cop, what if my friend were a crook?? and want to reach his gun?
I understand these things and I also know **** happen! /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

jimmy23
09-03-2000, 06:58 AM
your friend was a fool for reaching in his jacket.Good lord,some of you people should should be reserve cops for awhile and see what happens with police,it might open your eyes.

lee-JKD
09-03-2000, 07:56 PM
you yanks are **** ups i live in the UK try living there you think you have gangs huhwell you dont your *****s you cant fight your all fat goto n.ireland and you think you got **** ill kick all ya asses try this one for size 5years boxing 4ninjutsu 6 and a half years jeet kune do 2years jujitsu so you yanks come fight me not with ya guns *****s with fists nuff said

overdemon
09-04-2000, 03:46 AM
I think I'll hire a lawyer!
if get in trouble with the law

JWTAYLOR
09-04-2000, 08:05 PM
Totally Frozen, you're posting some incorrect information here. The laws about resisting arrest are state based. They are felony crimes but not "federal" crimes. Unless, of course, they are committed against a federal employee.

As far as resisting arrest, in some, very special cases, it is completely legal (I'm not saying wise, just legal) to "fight" a cop. That is, if PRIOR to or DURING, not after, an arrest is made, the officer proceedes with unneccessary force which significantly and immediately endangers the offender. An example: if, prior to an arrest, a police officer physically assaults an individual(like hits him or something) that individual is within his rights of self defense to exercise "reasonable" meathods to keep him/herself from "immediate" harm. In Texas, we go a step further, only a few other states do. Here, if a police officer draws his weapon in a theatening manner (and you'll have to prove intent here) prior to an arrest (in other words you see him and he just pulls his gun and starts to aim and fire on you and you have no idea why, and can prove all of that in a court(good luck)), you are within your rights to pull a legally carried firearm and shoot him dead. This scenario has been tried over a dozen times here in Texas and has passed the courts every time.

The same goes for a cop that goes for anyone else. Bad people exist. Some of them are cops. It is your responsibility to protect youself from them as you would anyone else. Either way, if you have the opportunity, a court and a lawyer are your best bet.

Now, as far as other countries go, I've been in more than one place where I've been threatened by the police, and I've bribed my way out every time. In my humble, Central America travelling opinion, foreign police suck.


JWT

jimmy23
09-05-2000, 03:50 AM
Ok heres on sure to draw flames.IMHO, since most police wear body armor and have a sidearm,this is one of the few real life situations where bjj is almost perfect.Since ju jutsu was designed to fight an armored opponent and neutralize his weapon,I think there would be a lot of crossover here.
Flame away!

El_CLap
09-06-2000, 05:42 PM
Dude, that's why stand up jujitsu was invented. I didn't think BJJ had any weapon disarms.

David
09-13-2000, 03:14 PM
JWT I'm very encouraged by the scenario you give.

My experience of unprovoked police violence and intimidation in the UK angers me greatly. I was extremely pleased to learn in my first kung fu lesson, how to escape the old arm-bent-up-behind-your-back-trick.

There is no effective law to save your ass while the bad element of the police is doing it's worst to you here in the UK. I've encountered reasonable cops but how reasonable are they that they permit their colleagues to beat up on people?

rant rant etc.

jimmy23
09-13-2000, 09:06 PM
I said neuttralize,not disarm.And all the japanese jj guys ive known have told me that the stand up is only a gateway to the ground.Think about it,an armed samurai needs very little room to use his blade,or to pull out a dagger,of which several were carried.The best way to stop this was to get him off his feet.Now,the japanese version does put more emphasis on stand up,but the ground is the preferred result

BrutallyFrank
09-14-2000, 01:14 AM
I don't know why I'm even bothering with posting something here. First, who regulates this website and why are the likes of lee-JKD and overdemon even allowed to post anything here??? I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading here. For those who don't know, I live in Brooklyn, New York. We're talking NYPD. So those who think they have it bad with the authorities in their countries, chill out. It's even worse here, but one would think that it was needless to say that you NEVER, EVER assault a police officer, no matter what! Our UK friends have the luxury of power tripping on the possibility of taking down a cop because the police there don't carry a pistol.
This is ridiculous, Jimmy, why are we wasting our time here?
Over and out. CT

BrutallyFrank
09-14-2000, 01:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lee-JKD:
you yanks are **** ups i live in the UK try living there you think you have gangs huhwell you dont your *****s you cant fight your all fat goto n.ireland and you think you got **** ill kick all ya asses try this one for size 5years boxing 4ninjutsu 6 and a half years jeet kune do 2years jujitsu so you yanks come fight me not with ya guns *****s with fists nuff said [/quote]

You sad, sad kid. Stop imbarrassing yourself. You're lying. You have no credentials. No one with that much training in MA talks like that. Anytime, anywhere old boy.

David
09-14-2000, 03:11 PM
Canadiantiger, what's your beef? You have the "luxury" of being able to shoot people yourselves, whether you're a cop or not.

The Laws of Nature specify that bad cops should be resisted. Only a dumb fool human (like you or I) would think to act otherwise in that situation.

jimmy23
09-15-2000, 09:03 PM
the law of the jungle is to survive,not necessarily to win.If you resist a bad cop and lose,hell beat ya worse.If you resist and other police show up.even good cops,theyll only see their friend getting attacked and theyll jump you too.If you win,then youll be a wanted man,and when you get caught youll take a major beating even if you go peacefully.
If you let the bad cop beat you and then hire a good lawyer,youll stand a good chance of getting justice,and at the very least the copper will to explain his actions.Enough situations like these and the cop is out of a job,and maybe blackballed from law enforcement.
Not to insult here guys,but this isnt a comic book or an action movie.If you resist,be ready for the consequences.And remember ,in court,if its only your word against the law mans,most of the time he will be believed.Its better to have loads of defensive wounds to show a medical expert .Its your choice,but consider the real life effects of your actions .

BrutallyFrank
09-16-2000, 01:58 AM
David,
No beef, mate, just stating a point. Let me clear it up some; There is little to no point in talking about this too much because it's a semantic argument to which there can be no clear answer. The fact of the matter is, some of the people posting here are taking their frustrations out on 'the system' by discriminating in a way that is completely unfair to cops (most cops) who do their jobs properly. Chances are if you are being roughed up by an officer, it's because you deserve it. If not, than it's crazy to even think of putting up a fight physically because they're packing. I certainly don't carry a pistol myself, and I don't consider it a 'luxury', as you stated, to be able to shoot people...after all, I'm not even american, I just live here, but it's crazy how many misconceptions some people have about this country. Thans for the reply though.
Cheers
CT

sct82abn
09-18-2000, 05:31 AM
YOU ARE AN IDIOT,I DON'T LIKE TO BE MEAN BUT IT IS OBVIOUS,IF YOU ACTUALLY HAD THE TRAINING YOU SAY, YOU EITHER DIDN'T LEARN ANYTHING OR YOUR INSTRUCTORS ARE WORTHLESS. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

P.S. CHANGE THE SCREENNAME,YOU'RE DOING IT A GREAT DISSERVICE /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Dragon Spirit
09-24-2000, 09:20 AM
Lemmy tell you something my friend you better change that name of yours your an embarrasement to the Jeet Kune Do name. What has it taught you exactly, obiviously nothing because the art teaches to be open minded and kind hearted your words defy everything my art stands for.

-The Dragon-

shimera
09-26-2000, 01:05 AM
i would guess that most who said never ever fight a cop in the US, are over the age of 25.... correct me if i'm wrong.
also i would guess that you haven't spent much time on the streets. or been in a bad sitaution with ****ed cops.

basically if they got your id. *or they know who you are, don't bother fighting cuz they'll just pick you up later.* if you live in a small town don't bother.... chances are they'll figure out who you are. but if you live in a large town my best advise is run... run fast... run far.... and don't stop. Never ever fight anyone if it is avoidable. and never take a cop into court chances are you'll end up in prison.

totallyfrozen
09-27-2000, 12:38 PM
By JWTAYLOR<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Totallyfrozen, you're posting some incorrect information here. The laws about resisting arrest are state based. They are felony crimes but not "federal" crimes. Unless, of course, they are committed against a federal employee.[/quote]

I couldn't find where I said they were "federal" crimes. /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

"There is only ONE karate"

totallyfrozen
09-27-2000, 12:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i would guess that most who said never ever fight a cop in the US, are over the age of 25.... correct me if i'm wrong.[/quote]
Well, you're not wrong as far as I'm concerned. I'm 30. You're statement makes me want to ask, "why do you think that is?"...that adults over 25 don't think you should fight cops? Do you think it has anything to do with wisdom coming with age?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i would guess that you haven't spent much time on the streets.[/quote]
Not true. Also not true from what I've read about JWTAYLOR and jimmy23.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>basically if they got your id...[/quote]
Remeber, they don't have to be holding your driver's license. If you've served in the military or worked at an airport or any number of other jobs which require FINGER PRINTS (hello?)...then they HAVE your I.D. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

"There is only ONE karate"

ATENG
09-29-2000, 12:46 AM
why the heck would a cop attack you unless you GAVE HIM A REASON TO??? i'm not denying the possibility that there are corrupt police officers out there but i think it is fair to say that the vast majority do not drive around in their cruisers looking for innocent people to pick a fight with(unless of course i'm just deluded). never fight a cop. period.

Its all fun and games til someone loses an eye. Then its just fun.

10-18-2000, 06:36 PM
I think you guys may have taken the wrong track here. I don't think overdemon meant fighting a cop that pulled you over or is legally trying to arrest you. That would just be stupid and you would deserve to have the cop hit you with pepperspray and beat your a$$ with his baton (ala Rodney King). I would be more concerned about running into a cop at a bar thats got a huge ego and wants your girlfriend or something. I've seen this one happen before. Luckily no violence. Cops out of uniform are normal people. If they step out of line or try to hurt you, you can and should smack some sense into him. I think overdemons question was if this were to happen what can you expect from a highly trained "peace officer" that is running at you drunk. Anyway just my 2 cents.

Tiger Moon
10-20-2000, 11:19 AM
Well lets see here, well the fighting a cop is certainly an interesting subject, personally i thought this was a martial arts website , but it doesn't seem to have to many real martial artists on it. Mainly because i see alot of crap like from LEE-JKD and also why would anyone get pleasure out of thinking of ways to fight a cop for absolutely no reason LOL Now not to take away from the real Martial Artists on here, there are cool people around, but there seems to be alot of mean spirited people and thats not what the ARTS is about once so ever. Welp Peace and to All the real MARTIAL ARTISTS Keep up the good work and hard dedication!!

--Tiger Moon--

Metal Fist
11-01-2000, 03:24 PM
First of all I agree with those who say "Do not fight a cop", simply because it could get you killed and the puke will get away with it. In reality since the Supreme Court stated that the Police are under no obligation to protect the individual and since they are Law Enforcement(enforcing the laws of the Corporate state) as versus a Peace Officer( one who keeps the peace)and there is a big difference. If one comes up against a Law Enforcement type beware, they are out to get you into the system so you can be controlled, so fighting one of them is best done with no witnesses and make sure you're the one who remains standing. As to the Peace Officer they are not interested in controlling you only making sure Peace is kept in society. Sorry for the rambling rant, just beware when dealing with the cops, know the laws regarding your interaction with the cops.

"Do whatever it takes to be the last man standing!"

Seeker of the Way
11-24-2000, 12:32 PM
... I woulnd't appreciate being called idiotic for bringing up the subject. Perhaps all cops in your area are benign, protecting and serving and all that. I live in Denmark, and there really are two kinds of cops. Dedicated, hardworking ones, and... for lack of a better expression, bad cops.

We've had cases where they fired their sidearms at unarmed rioters(the '93 Nørrebro incident), and a lot where they applied their hand-to-hand skills (mainly brawling, some Judo and Aikido techniques) on people who were handcuffed, breaking bones on them.

Should we not defend ourselves against injustice of this caliber? I would... But as a rule, yes, I would never fight a law enforcer. Nothing good for you will come of it.

Peace out,
/SotW

The dance of life, the capering of elements, and skip of gods. The dance is mine, I AM the dance.

johndruce
12-05-2000, 12:27 AM
David,

What is the escape from the arm bent behind the back hold. I've heard of one where you reach between your legs and pull their ankle out, but is there a better one?

Just we muck about at lunchtime and somepeople keep doing it and I can't escape without nearly hurting them.

By the way, isn't it called a hammerlock?

Thanx

JWTAYLOR
12-05-2000, 09:59 PM
Yep, that's a hammerlock. And no, you can not get out of it by reaching down and grabbing thier ankle. Bending over, or lowering your body in any way simply puts more pressure on the shoulder, where the lock is applied, if the lock is applied correctly.

I don't know of a good way to get out of this lock without hurting someone.
But, WITH hurting someone works pretty well.
If they have your right arm in the hammerlock with thier right arm, and are standing behind you or to the left, (if they arn't standing there they will have a lousy lock, and you can most likely walk out of it), then you first counter grab their forearm with your right hand, move your left foot back to as close to inbetween their feet as possible, and bring your left elbow up and back toward their face. Then, with your right hand still holding their arm, punch your left hand strait down. Punch hard. This should badly hyperextend or break their right arm. You can go on from there if you wish.

OR, given the same scenario, counter grab again, but this time simply step forward and to the right with your left foot, to around 2:00. Then, simply kick strait back with your right foot to their midsection or right knee. Maintaining your grip with your right hand, make it do a big loop, pulling your wrist back to your right hip, which will lock out their arm and send their face into the ground. You can follow up with kicks to the face and elbows to the back if you feel neccessary.

In American Kenpo, those two techniques are called Locked Wing and Flight to Freedom, respectively.

If you are very quick, and lock isn't so great, it is possible to simply spin out of it. However, this often puts you into a more dangerous lock.

JW

MonkeySlap Too
12-05-2000, 10:25 PM
I have run into corrupt peace officers right here in the good old USA. I beat them in court. Fellow even lost his job, and the corrupt lawyer working the angle with him was disbarred. It pays to know the rules of the game.

While I do not advocate violence in these situations, lets not forget all the murder by government this country has seen, partuicularly against minorities in the South and West. Each situation needs to be gauged properly. I do not beleive that the coruption is as bad as it once was, but then I do not really know...

Traveling abroad I have bribed and dropped names as a way to avoid trouble.

I am not a criminal, so I have a hard time seing myself having to 'fight' a peace officer in this country. However, I could see it as a possibility in latin America or the Middle East. But the definitions of law tend to be a little different there.

I thought UK cops were rude, I had no idea they were seen as such bad citizens. I'm surprised...

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

jojitsu27
12-05-2000, 11:29 PM
There are two types of law enforcement officers.....COPS and PIGS.
Cops are those who are like modern Knights. They are there to protect humanity. They are idealistic, moral, and upstanding. They often let you slide on that speeding ticket or registration ticket and give you a warning. They are quick to respond to their calls, and don't spend most of their shift hanging out eating jelly donuts.
PIGS are those walking piles of testosterone, who's entire manliness relies on the fact that they have power over you and carry that gun at their side. They enjoy pulling you over and ruining your day with a $79 ticket for not using a turn signal, and they often rub it in with some cut down or rude remark that they know you don't have the balls to respond to.
Would I fight a Cop? No. I respect them.
Would I fight a PIG? Hell yes, and I have.
I am from Oklahoma, and unfortunatly the majority of Police here are PIGS. I got into it with one over something he said about my wife (she is not white like I am). I almost lost it and attacked him right there, but instead asked him if he was such a big man if he would want to come to my Dojo and have a match with me and leave his gun at the door. He agreed, and later that week he actually showed up.
He really thought he was the ****, but I took him down and made him tap out like a little biitch with an armbar that I twisted alittle too hard for good measure.
Afterwards I commented that any old criminial could kick his out of shape ass easily and that he'd better keep that gun handy, because its the only way he's every going to get out of a physical confrontation. He left all red-faced and I never saw him again.
Anyway, that is the one time I fought a PIG, and I'd do it again.
-jojitsu27

Otaku
12-06-2000, 08:37 PM
Taking from your post earlier about Rodney King deserving the beating he got. He did not deserve to be beaten that bad. The cops shoudlve restrained him and then put an end to it. Those were dirty cops, why are you trying to justify there actions.

(Otaku)

punchdrunk
12-18-2000, 09:47 PM
how to handle being attacked by a dirty cop is a real question. for starters u do not want to go along with what he tells u to do, (assuming u know he'sdangerous)he will probably cuff u and take u somewhere to beat u. this could be the end of your life. Now people who have never been on a cops bad side won't understand this, but they are the most dangerous opponent u can have. they r always armed, attack in groups with backup a call away, and their friends will do the investigation. If u need to defend yourself against a cop once violence has started u can't just run away. U will have to either kill or incapacitate him. this may sound unreal, but if u run he'll shoot u if he can and shoot to kill. Call whatever agency investigates police in your country immediately and turn yourself in. Do not go to the local police, stay in hiding if u must till u can see agents from the other bureau. This kind of incident will ruin the rest of your life. But if u didn't defend yourself against the police, YOUR LIFE IS GONE! there are no magic techniques for beating an officer, just don't give up. And if he ruins your life, take his with u. this is not macho talk, this is what many of our martial arts are designed for. U need training to beat an armed trained group of assailants.