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woliveri
01-15-2001, 03:07 AM
Anyone ever tonifiy Stomach and Spleen at Zu San Li (ST-36) and Guan Yuan (CV-4) with Moxibustion? Self administered? Anyone with comments on the practice?

Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East
By Baird T. Spalding

Chris McKinley
01-15-2001, 07:19 AM
I've done both of them with moxa, but not at the same time. I tend to shy away from needling CV-4 whenever possible anyway. Generally prefer acupressure and Tuina when possible. Why do you ask?

woliveri
01-15-2001, 04:08 PM
This practice has helped me much with my digestive functionality which was very weak. Why do you avoid needling CV-4?

Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East
By Baird T. Spalding

Chris McKinley
01-16-2001, 12:27 AM
Because of its connection to the pre-natal qi. It is said to draw its qi from the pre-natal supply, thus shortening the overall lifespan. This is, admittedly, not a consensus belief, but I'd rather not draw too heavily from it if I don't have to. It also temporarily reduces the reserve qi supply when activated, which is why it is so potent. Also, practically speaking, it's rarely necessary. Using CV-4 for most complaints is a bit heavy-handed in terms of TCM theory. When it is called for, I've found that simple acupressure or tuina usually suffices. Heck, sometimes even external qigong to the point gets the job done.

In general, I try to practice the least invasive amount of therapy that I can, which is part of why I favor acupressure so much. TCM is also about giving the patient ownership of and responsibility for their own health, and acupressure routines are simpler, safer, and require less finesse than the needles. Therefore, they are something the patient can be taught to apply him or herself when appropriate. Of course, there are those situations where the needles are the better tool for the job, and that's fine.

I'm just a big fan of promoting the concept of personal responsibility for health and anything which helps the patient take that responsibility is a plus in my book. :

woliveri
01-16-2001, 02:18 AM
So to strengthen and harmonize the stomach and spleen applying Moxibustion at Zu San Li is enough in your opinion?

Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East
By Baird T. Spalding

Shaolin Master
01-16-2001, 05:16 AM
Zu San Li - 3 mile Leg

Names sums it up (:)) I remember my Proffessor saying when you have no energy left use Zu San Li for a little extra energy to get you there !

In reality Zu San Li is an excellent tonification point, and all that is necessary without having to heavily rely on CV points. Personally CV points are not for general tonification they are for indicated reasons occassionally. Rely on the channels not the Vessels it is best.

Regards
Shi Chan Long

Chris McKinley
01-16-2001, 08:16 AM
woliveri,

I couldn't answer that question without having diagnosed you both before and after treatment. Moxa, even needles, might not even be necessary for the purpose you describe. You might be able to get away with acupressure to the 'Diamond of Digestion' as I call it. This consists of CV-12, CV-6, and both S-25's. These four points, with perhaps the addition of LI-11, are a good all-around multi-symptom digestive problem fix.

S-25, because they act as a mu, or alarm, point for the large intestine's general state of health and are good for regulating all sorts of digestive problems by themselves. CV-12, because it is the alarm point of the stomach and the influential point of all the fu, or hollow, organs. CV-6, because it is the sea of qi and corresponds to LI-6, a large intestine point, and because it further enhances the Yin energy of all Yin organs/meridians, enhancing the effect of CV-12.

Try pressing the S-25's with the middle fingers of both hands at the same time for 2-3 minutes. Then, using one hand, press CV-6 with the middle finger and CV-12 with the thumb for another 2-3 minutes. Then press each LI-11 for 1-2 minutes apiece, and the same for each S-36. All of these are using moderate, not firm, pressure. Barring a serious medical condition, this combo should produce fast and dramatic results for you, and without having to bring out the needles. This simple routine, twice daily, should clear up digestive symptoms within a day or two

kull
01-18-2001, 12:30 PM
Some doctors say moxa both these ponts during winter and you will never get sick.

brucelee2
01-18-2001, 07:11 PM
Hi,

I am very interested in the Diamond of Digestion (CV 12 and 6, both S25s, +LI 11) described above. However, unfortunately by acupuncture charts only have the chinese names and their romanizations for the points, no numbers. If someone would be kind enough to give me the romanizations (example: neiguan) of the above points I'd greatly appreciate it.

thanks,
gary

Chris McKinley
01-18-2001, 08:28 PM
Gary,

The name Diamond of Digestion is my own cutesy little term for those points, you won't find it anywhere. As for the points' names, CV-12=Zhongwan, CV-6=Qihai, S-25=Tianshu.