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View Full Version : Harmful side effects of Iron Palm Training.



Oso
03-18-2001, 01:17 PM
I'm interested in finding out more about potentially harmful side effects of Iron Palm training, especially as related to women and Iron Palm training. Replies or direction to literature
are greatly appreciated.

Matt

"It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion. And usually easier." -R.A.H

Kung Lek
03-18-2001, 10:01 PM
Hi-
A cardinal rule to IP training is that you do it under the supervision of someone who has mastered it fully and understands it at a very deep level.

If you follow that first rule, you should be fine.

Side effects that can occur when practiced improperly would be things such as :

desensitized hands, wrists, forearms (neural damage)

hairline fractures to the small bones of the hands and wrists.

callous build up (in traditional iron Palm, this should not occur at all)

skin dryness and cracking (this comes from using a dit da jow that is not formulated properly for the practice. Generally it will have too much alcohol and not enough active herbs in it to cause this.)

A word to the wise, do not undertake self directed practice of Iron Palm training.
Also, do not practice Iron Palm until you are ready to do so within the path of your training as directed by your sifu, master or teacher.

peace

Kung Lek

Oso
03-19-2001, 02:08 AM
Thanks for the reply.
I have completed the first level of what I feel is
a pretty traditional method of Iron Palm. For me, this was enough for now. I had supurvision from several sifus who had completed the entire program and I don't believe I suffered any harm. I have read and heard hints at potentially damaging side effects to your body besides the physical ones you have described. One thing I have heard is that women in particular should be very carefull about training but not why. Another is that all the chi kung you are doing at the same time is NECESSARY to counterbalance the harmful side effects but no real explanation as to
what could go wrong if you don't do the chi kung.

Since I'm rambling a bit I'll toss this out:

Why train Iron Palm?

I'm not asking to hear the basic answers that may be offered, but what is the real point? To be able
to damage someone else more efficiently? Or, to be
able to recieve less damage from someone else?

I've trained for a little over 3 years in Hsing Yi
and Ba Gua and the exercises and chi kung in those arts increased my energy level and awareness incredibally. During the last 6 months of that period of time I did the first level (sand) of the IP system that was offered. I felt a difference but not as much as if I would train the chi kung diligently.

Just very curious about this, especially my original question of bad side effects. Thanks for reading and any constructive reply will be enjoyed.

Matt

"It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion. And usually easier." -R.A.H

Sima Rong
10-02-2012, 05:57 PM
More risk of wearing down your wick with self abuse.

Empty_Cup
10-02-2012, 09:12 PM
Thanks for the reply.
I have completed the first level of what I feel is
a pretty traditional method of Iron Palm. For me, this was enough for now. I had supurvision from several sifus who had completed the entire program and I don't believe I suffered any harm. I have read and heard hints at potentially damaging side effects to your body besides the physical ones you have described. One thing I have heard is that women in particular should be very carefull about training but not why. Another is that all the chi kung you are doing at the same time is NECESSARY to counterbalance the harmful side effects but no real explanation as to
what could go wrong if you don't do the chi kung.

Since I'm rambling a bit I'll toss this out:

Why train Iron Palm?

I'm not asking to hear the basic answers that may be offered, but what is the real point? To be able
to damage someone else more efficiently? Or, to be
able to recieve less damage from someone else?

I've trained for a little over 3 years in Hsing Yi
and Ba Gua and the exercises and chi kung in those arts increased my energy level and awareness incredibally. During the last 6 months of that period of time I did the first level (sand) of the IP system that was offered. I felt a difference but not as much as if I would train the chi kung diligently.

Just very curious about this, especially my original question of bad side effects. Thanks for reading and any constructive reply will be enjoyed.

Matt

"It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion. And usually easier." -R.A.H

Are you interested in iron palm or iron bone (palm, forearm, shin, shirt)?

Oso
10-02-2012, 10:49 PM
lolz, 11 year old thread.

Oso
10-02-2012, 11:20 PM
holy crap...was that my first ever post?

derp...no, i don't think...first post in the thread...move along, nothing to see here.

taai gihk yahn
10-03-2012, 02:56 AM
lolz, 11 year old thread.

lolz, you've been here 11 years.


http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/can-i-be-your-lawyer-of-course-you-can-240x180.jpg

Empty_Cup
10-03-2012, 05:29 AM
lolz, 11 year old thread.

.lol. missed that part.

There's another iron palm thread out there now: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64219

So what ended up being your experience with the training? Have you kept up practice these long 11 years?

Oso
10-03-2012, 09:53 AM
i did a 3 year internship at a cost of $300,000 but now i'm a jedi master.

Lucas
10-03-2012, 10:24 AM
I joined the sith and got even more powerful than your jedi's, took a fraction of the time, and all it cost me was my soul and my conscience.

sanjuro_ronin
10-03-2012, 10:26 AM
I joined the sith and got even more powerful than your jedi's, took a fraction of the time, and all it cost me was my soul and my conscience.

Welcome to the club my brother and remember:
There can be only TWO !!

Lucas
10-03-2012, 10:27 AM
I feel all warm and fuzzy inside...or is that the dark side?

sanjuro_ronin
10-03-2012, 10:28 AM
I feel all warm and fuzzy inside...or is that the dark side?

I'm not telling...

Lucas
10-03-2012, 10:29 AM
A major bonus is i can just shoot lightning at my food to cook it myself.

sanjuro_ronin
10-03-2012, 10:43 AM
A major bonus is i can just shoot lightning at my food to cook it myself.

Not to mention all the fun at birthday parties, barmitzvahs and swingers clubs !

Subitai
10-03-2012, 10:46 AM
I worked as Sifu Lam's Shipping Manager for WLE for a few years. Being in that position you get to field allot of questions. Often I would get a question about VISION LOSS, something to the effect of;


Have you heard of or experienced loss of vision from practicing iron palm in the long term? I read that by using the tiger claw strike in iron palm you overstimulate the meridians connected to the eyes that terminate in the fingertips and thus damage the eyes.



I had to field this question many times back in the 90's. It became comical to me. Because eventually I got disgusted and told the last guy that if he went blind from doing Iron Palm...Then he was most likely doing SOMETHING ELSE with his palm. LOL@@@!!!

But seriously, Sifu's method (Ku Yu Cheung) is more like putting drops in the bucket. It's consitent, steady to make you stronger and not meant to injure you. Only if you abuse yourself or try to cut corners do you pay the price for rushing it.

I had spoken with people who said that thier Piano Playing improved immensely....or a professional rock climber that said that "His hand-holds were really improved from Iron Palm training".

Avoid the 3 "D's" , NEVER:
-Deform yourself (cripple or handicap)
-Deaden yourself (as in deaden nerves or feeling)
or
-Deface yourself in anyway (aka visibly scar yourself) It's not nesscessary in the modern day.

The body has natural hard points already that do not need to be abused. You just have to train properly and healthy.
"O"

Empty_Cup
10-03-2012, 11:13 AM
I worked as Sifu Lam's Shipping Manager for WLE for a few years. Being in that position you get to field allot of questions. Often I would get a question about VISION LOSS, something to the effect of;


...

This is also the danger I've heard of with fingertip conditioning. The prevention, as I was taught, is to simply use jow as you would normally. Without the jow, you risk injuries.

Lucas
10-03-2012, 11:45 AM
This is my Sith Master.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/Vonn_Hennigar/EvilPope.jpg

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Evil_28d95e_476576.jpg

http://www.manic.com.sg/blog/images/pope.jpg

Golden Arms
10-03-2012, 11:53 AM
There are Chinese recipes for tonics to "brighten the eyes" you can take while doing this type of training as well, just FYI.

sanjuro_ronin
10-03-2012, 12:08 PM
This is my Sith Master.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/Vonn_Hennigar/EvilPope.jpg

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Evil_28d95e_476576.jpg

http://www.manic.com.sg/blog/images/pope.jpg

I bet he wishes he had that kind of power !
As do we all !!
BBBWWAAAHHHH !!!!!!!!!

Oso
10-05-2012, 07:40 AM
fwiw, i did two methods. one early, in my late teens, that was 'hard'. never to a 'deformed' point, but gradually hitting hard and harder objects with more and more force.

the second, later around 30, was supposedly the KYC method. i have a lot of personal observations from this time period but they are most surely entirely subjective and so...

my takeaway in general is that if you have to take all the jow and tonics to prevent the damage from the iron palm training then you probably need to rethink the training.

and, ftr, i'm not going to argue/debate the above statement, have at it if you will. it's just my opinion. :D

mickey
10-06-2012, 06:56 AM
Greetings,

"my takeaway in general is that if you have to take all the jow and tonics to prevent the damage from the iron palm training then you probably need to rethink the training"

BINGO!!!!


mickey

bawang
10-06-2012, 07:36 AM
the medicine is used to heal injuries. its not magic juice. if you need to constantly apply it you are doing it wrong

IronWeasel
10-06-2012, 09:14 AM
the medicine is used to heal injuries. its not magic juice. if you need to constantly apply it you are doing it wrong



The medicine is said to be preventative as well.

So, applying it before a training session would be appropriate.

bawang
10-06-2012, 05:59 PM
The medicine is said to be preventative as well.

So, applying it before a training session would be appropriate.

the medicine doesnt heal nerve damage, but the signs dont show up right away.

with light hitting methods it doesnt even matter whether you put on medicine or not. you put on medicine when you do the accesory exercises with the sandbag or wooden post.

IronWeasel
10-06-2012, 06:15 PM
the medicine doesnt heal nerve damage, but the signs dont show up right away.

with light hitting methods it doesnt even matter whether you put on medicine or not. you put on medicine when you do the accesory exercises with the sandbag or wooden post.




Medicine...every time.

bawang
10-06-2012, 06:18 PM
Medicine...every time.

its not magic juice. and its toxic.

IronWeasel
10-06-2012, 06:35 PM
its not magic juice. and its toxic.



It's a tincture, and it's only harmful if ingested.

My instructor has done and seen IP trained WITH and WITHOUT. He says that the medicine is vital.

Two things wil cause you injury (fracture, nerve damage, deformity, blood clot):

1) Striking the target structure too hard

2) Too many strikes per session


The medicine is not magic, but it will help to mitigate any damage and will promote healing.

bawang
10-06-2012, 06:52 PM
It's a tincture, and it's only harmful if ingested.

My instructor has done and seen IP trained WITH and WITHOUT. He says that the medicine is vital.



heavier strikes with constant use of medicine is called fast method. light strikes with less medicine is called slow method. neither one is wrong.

when you hit heavy your bones are damaged every time but it doesnt give pain. thats why you must put on the medicine every time.

in chinese kung fu you "must" drink hard liquor when there is fog or evil spirits will attack you. you have to think with reason.

IronWeasel
10-06-2012, 07:09 PM
heavier strikes with constant use of medicine is called fast method. light strikes with less medicine is called slow method. neither one is wrong.
.


But one of those is riskier.




when you hit heavy your bones are damaged every time but it doesnt give pain. thats why you must put on the medicine every time. .

Any amount of striking can create a blood clot, etc. Medicine. Every time.




in chinese kung fu you "must" drink hard liquor when there is fog or evil spirits will attack you. you have to think with reason.

I am way ahead of you this evening...

Oso
10-06-2012, 07:20 PM
lol.......

bawang
10-06-2012, 07:22 PM
Any amount of striking can create a blood clot, etc. Medicine. Every time.


majority of chinese marital artists in the past didnt constantly use medicine. the whole point of the little iron sand bag is so you can use less medicine than normal sandbag. traditional styles from my reigion used hot salt water and hit sandbags, and they are fine.

there is no need to obsess over ritual. iron palm hasnt made any mma killing machines. modern athletes arent falling over because they dont have our chinese magic juice.


also, i dont know how you go to work with your hands smelling like urine and raw chicken feet every day.

IronWeasel
10-06-2012, 09:33 PM
majority of chinese marital artists in the past didnt constantly use medicine. the whole point of the little iron sand bag is so you can use less medicine than normal sandbag. traditional styles from my reigion used hot salt water and hit sandbags, and they are fine.

there is no need to obsess over ritual. iron palm hasnt made any mma killing machines. modern athletes arent falling over because they dont have our chinese magic juice.


also, i dont know how you go to work with your hands smelling like urine and raw chicken feet every day.



We use steel shot, (or lead shot after a while) instead of sand. The medicine actually smells good...

...and in my line of work, urine and raw chicken would be a welcome odor.

MMA? Too many rules.

ginosifu
10-07-2012, 05:12 AM
the medicine is used to heal injuries. its not magic juice. if you need to constantly apply it you are doing it wrong

I have been applying Jow to my hands BEFORE and After hitting for over 15 years now. 15 years in a row... no stopping, no breaks.

I am living proof there is no vision loss, no limited finger use, I just made 3 children so my nuts still work.

The best thing I could have done! I have NO (NONE), not one finger injury from sparring since I started IP. Over the years I have noticed hitting people (even with sparring gear on) can injur them quite easily.

There is no magic, no qi flying out my palms, just increased density. I have noticed increase blood and qi flow to my hands as well.

ginosifu

IronWeasel
10-07-2012, 05:57 AM
I am living proof there is no vision loss, no limited finger use, I just made 3 children so my nuts still work.



You're only supposed to train your hands!


:p

ginosifu
10-07-2012, 06:12 AM
You're only supposed to train your hands!

There is a gut who trains: IRON PENUS. I wonder if he puts Jow on his member? There are a few youtube vids of these guys lifting weights with their hot dogs!.

Found one here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4D4IO0JSO0

ginosifu

Dale Dugas
10-07-2012, 06:47 AM
I have beenn training my hands for almost 20 years and I am an acupuncturist and have no loss of movement or loss of sensitivity.

Actually the training has made my hands much more sensitive to energy compared to before the training.

I was taught medicine before during and after the training is a good thing.

Mike Patterson
10-07-2012, 04:49 PM
There is a gut who trains: IRON PENUS. I wonder if he puts Jow on his member? There are a few youtube vids of these guys lifting weights with their hot dogs!.

Found one here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4D4IO0JSO0

ginosifu


Well... I guess whatever draws the public in, eh? :rolleyes:

That particular style of "weight lifting" is what I had talked about months ago with TGY and Dale. It is part of "shi swei jing" training and in full form is acutually an iron body method. But no, Gino, we don't use hit liniment on our package. ;)

Properly trained, you can learn to lift and swing more than 150 lbs., and some even do more than that. But it is not done with just the penile member. The silk is tied around the entire package for this type of training. (although I certainly DO NOT recommend that anyone try it without proper training and supervision).

As for Iron Palm, I also have been doing such for a very long time (over 40 years now) with no observable ill effects. But one does need to be meticulous and measured in any ongoing conditioning regimen.

TenTigers
10-09-2012, 09:36 AM
also, i dont know how you go to work with your hands smelling like urine and raw chicken feet every day.
um, yeah..my formula's a little different than yours...

sanjuro_ronin
10-09-2012, 09:44 AM
um, yeah..my formula's a little different than yours...

On that note, the reason I switch to vodka in mine from whiskey was the orange tint my hands were getting, LOL !

Dale Dugas
10-09-2012, 11:15 AM
Sometimes it can be the whiskey or it can be the amount of Hung Hua/Hong Fa Safflower in the formula that can also stain the hands red/orange.

Faruq
10-10-2012, 08:09 AM
also, i dont know how you go to work with your hands smelling like urine and raw chicken feet every day.

That's part of the psychological attack on the attacker that starts with an assault on his olfactory lobe. If he can make his way past that run! The bad part is when I go to bars and clubs and it keeps everyone there away too. But usually it's not to a point where the bouncers come and ask me to leave thank God....

Empty_Cup
10-10-2012, 08:54 AM
That's part of the psychological attack on the attacker that starts with an assault on his olfactory lobe. If he can make his way past that run! The bad part is when I go to bars and clubs and it keeps everyone there away too. But usually it's not to a point where the bouncers come and ask me to leave thank God....

In this day and age, I'm sure somebody somewhere has a fetish for that type of thing. :eek: Go check the internet.