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Sam Wiley
02-27-2001, 07:28 PM
I've read only a little about LHBF. But until recently I have never read or heard the phrase "water boxing" used with it.

Until the other thread on the subject mentioned that one master does not seem to take kindly to the styles of LHBF that bill themselves as "water boxing," I simply thought this was just another name I had somehow missed before.

What is the difference, if any?

*********
"To enter is to be born, to retreat is to die."
-An Old Taijiquan Saying

Qiman
02-27-2001, 09:00 PM
I thougt the two names were one art as well. At the top of my screen today is a video for sale by Helen Lieang. Terry Dunn also has Liu He Ba Fa materials for sale. Drake, who are the dancers and who are the fighters?

PlasticSquirrel
02-27-2001, 10:52 PM
from what i've heard, "water boxing" is just a sort of nickname for liu he ba fa. i could be wrong, though.

Ky-Fi
02-27-2001, 11:50 PM
I'm not much of an authority on Liu He Ba Fa, and I don't put much stock in lineage arguments---but here's a biography of Liang Shou-Yu----I would tend to doubt that he's ignorant of the martial aspects of the style he teaches.

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/HomePage/magazine/2000/KF200010/htmlFolder/Covstory200010.htm

Joe2334
02-28-2001, 02:56 AM
I study under the current lineage holder of lui ho pa fa, grandmaster wai lun choi. "water boxing" is just the english nickname. it is the 4th internal art.
it has the power of hsing i. flowingness of bagua,
and subtle stoping power of tai chi.

<A HREF="http://www.luihopafa.comweb" TARGET=_blank>www.luihopafa.com[URL=http://www.luihopafa.com]web (http://www.luihopafa.com) page</A>

Water Dragon
02-28-2001, 05:10 AM
The Original term was Suai Chuan (sp?) which translates to Water Form or Water Boxing. The name Liu He Ba Fa :Six Combination Eight Methods or Hsing Yi Liu He Ba Fa Chuan is I think around 200 - 300 years old. The system is said to be around 800 - 1000 thousand years old. I had even heard a rumor from a different source that said the art Jiang Fa taught to Yang Lu Chan's teacher was Liu He Ba Fa internal mechanics grafted into the Pao Chui forms. Just an old Legend though.

Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

fiercest tiger
02-28-2001, 05:57 AM
the vids for sale, terry dunn are they any good and how long has he trained?

i have a friend that is training luk hup batt fut, and loves its simplicity!!!

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

Qiman
02-28-2001, 05:29 PM
I have his Tai Chi Ruler video and workbook. It is clear and easy to follow. Good production. My sifu says that some of the material is incorrect as my sifu learned the set from Master Share K. Lew. I was also told that Dunn did the Ruler products without consent of his teacher and bad blood between the two resulted.

--------------------------------------------------
"I am fortunate to have a teacher to correct my foolish ways".--Qiman

swmngdragn
03-01-2001, 03:22 AM
Guys,

I'd post my opinion, but I don't need the aggravation. If you gents wants my opinion, for whatever reason (heaven forbid), e-mail me. I'll be happy to do so privately. I'll be as honest as I can be. I'm not, however, going to get into a public slam fest. It's not conducive to a good nights sleep.

Best regards,
R. Drake Sansone
(swmngdragn@home.com)
http://www.liuhopafa.com/
"Train, or go to hell." Terry W.

[This message was edited by Drake on 03-01-01 at 06:29 PM.]

swmngdragn
03-03-2001, 10:50 PM
Hi gents. :)

>the vids for sale, terry dunn are they any good and how long has he trained?<

York Y. Lew was Terry Dunn's teacher in L.H.P.F. Loooong story attached to that relationship.

>i have a friend that is training luk hup batt fut, and loves its simplicity!!!<

Hua Shan Hsing I Liu Ho Pa Fa Chuan is anything, but simple. I'd love to know/see the guy do anything from the system. Do you happen to know what his lineage is, Fiercest Tiger?

Best regards,
R. Drake Sansone
(swmngdragn@home.com)
http://www.liuhopafa.com/
"Train, or go to hell." Terry W.

Qiman
03-04-2001, 12:51 AM
Drake, I respect your integrity for not naming names. Are Share K. Lew, and York Y. Lew from the same family?

fiercest tiger
03-04-2001, 01:15 AM
ill try and find out for you his lineage, his teacher is cornileus ? ill get more info for you and ill be interested to hear your reply.

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

swmngdragn
03-04-2001, 08:12 AM
>Drake, I respect your integrity for not naming names. <
LOL.... Thanks, but I'm not that noble. I have ulterior motives. ;) Plus, it doesn't sit all that well with my conscience. (shrug) I dunno.

>Are Share K. Lew, and York Y. Lew from the same family?<

Of that, I have no idea. I tend to think that they do not share any familial ties, but who knows?

Best regards,
R. Drake Sansone
swmngdragn@home.com
http://www.liuhopafa.com/
"Train, or go to hell." Terry W.

cha kuen
03-12-2001, 12:06 PM
I am thinking of taking a few classes on water boxing. What do you guys think of it? It is related to tai chi, xing yi and pa kua. Do you guys think water boxing is good or tai chi? Steve martin teaches a waterboxing class and I heard he's good. I'd like to get input from anyone.


Thank you.

count
03-12-2001, 03:27 PM
I think Steve Martin is a wild and crazy guy!

Seriously, Liu Ho Ba Fa (water boxing) is as good as it gets. But plan on taking more than a few classes. It is a rather in depth system. One of the forms I have seen was well over 750 moves/techniques. Where in california is this class?

cha kuen
03-13-2001, 01:13 AM
He teaches in san diego.

swmngdragn
03-14-2001, 04:07 AM
Martin sifu is, I've heard, a good instructor. His lineage is the same as Wai Lun Choi (current lineage head of LHPF). I don't believe he teaches/knows the entire system. Only his branches version of the Six Harmonies/ Eight Methods Fist (the long form). His primary instruction is in Mo Gar, and that is his focal point. He has another instructor, whom he'd trained, working with him, who is the primary instructor for LHPF.

Best regards,
R. Drake Sansone
(swmngdragn@home.com)
http://www.liuhopafa.com/
"Train, or go to hell." Terry W.

GeneChing
03-15-2001, 06:26 PM
We produce a video on Water Boxing by Helen Liang, daughter of grandmaster Liang Shouyu. It's one of our most popular. She is internationally renown for her water boxing ans snake. Click the MartialArtsMart.com banner at the top of the forum and you can find the video.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KungfuMagazine.com (http://www.KungfuMagazine.com)

Zhin
03-15-2001, 06:50 PM
I said something mean, and now I regret it. :)

Poison'dDragon
11-24-2001, 07:01 AM
Hey,

A while ago I heard of an internal chinese style called 'water style boxing' , can anyone tell me a little more about this one?

Are there any disciples of that disicpline here?

If all the world were just , there woulde be noe need for valour" - Shakespear

swmngdragn
11-24-2001, 03:37 PM
You can find out a great deal about the style by following the link in my signature. Good luck. :)

Best regards,
R. Drake Sansone
(swmngdragn@home.com)
http://www.liuhopafa.com/
"Train, or go to hell."Terry W.

red5angel
12-20-2001, 02:39 PM
Can anyone tell me anything at all about this internal style? It has caught my eye the once or twice I have seen it and I am getting curiouser and curiouser.

count
12-20-2001, 02:50 PM
Wai Lun Choi (http://www.liuhopafa.com/)

Ka
12-27-2001, 09:00 PM
try www.liuhopafa.com/ I don't know what they are like just I wondered on to them one day :)

count
12-27-2001, 09:07 PM
erhemm, that link would be Choi. Or you could just ask Drake, I think he is going by swmngdragn these days.;)

swmngdragn
12-27-2001, 11:04 PM
>erhemm, that link would be Choi. Or you could just ask Drake, I think he is going by swmngdragn these days.<

LOL!!! :D

Yep.... That's Choi sifu's web site. Swmngdragn is part of my e-mail address (as noted in my signature). :) If you need further information, I'd be happy to either supply you with some, or get you in contact with someone who can give you the information you seek. Just e-mail me if you'd like, or a reply here is fine.

fiercest tiger
12-28-2001, 09:36 PM
Does your sifu know wann yeurn yut hay jeurng as well as luk hup batt fut?:)

swmngdragn
12-29-2001, 03:57 PM
F.T.

Howdy. :)

>Does your sifu know wann yeurn yut hay jeurng as well as luk hup batt fut?<

Since I speak only the barest minimum of Cantonese, and my sifu teaches in English terminology, you'll have to describe what it is you're speaking about in order for me to answer.

fiercest tiger
12-29-2001, 04:34 PM
SORRY MATE!:)

OK! its called primordial chaos one chi palm warn yeurn yut hay jeurng.

a luk hup batt fatt sifu here says this is older and better than luk hup batt fatt.

does LHBF use only the a$$ muscles to generate power?

swmngdragn
12-30-2001, 06:31 AM
Hi, Tiger. :)

>SORRY MATE!<

No worries. :)

>OK! its called primordial chaos one chi palm warn yeurn yut hay jeurng.<

O.K..... you've given me a name, but not a description. Would you describe what the outward expression looked like to you? That would help tremendously.

>a luk hup batt fatt sifu here says this is older and better than luk hup batt fatt.<

What he says I can't refute because of the language "barrier" here. Once I have a description I will be better able to answer you. :)

>does LHBF use only the a$$ muscles to generate power?

Uuuuuuhhhh..... No. Where would you get *that* impression, brother? :rolleyes:

fiercest tiger
12-30-2001, 02:54 PM
The butt checks are used in this style only nothing else!

kinda looks like LHBF but it doesnt, he went to canada to teach LHBF last year and do seminars. his sifu is from hongkong he is old and doesnt teach now i think he said!!:)

have a great and safe new year buddy:D

swmngdragn
12-30-2001, 08:28 PM
Hiya, F.T. :)

>The butt checks are used in this style only nothing else!<

I think you mean the glute's. (Butt cheeks) :) What he probably means is the base of the spine. LHPF uses this, yes, but also uses *all* of the spine, and the corresponding body parts as well.

>kinda looks like LHBF but it doesnt, he went to canada to teach LHBF last year and do seminars. his sifu is from hongkong he is old and doesnt teach now i think he said!!<

Hmmmm.... It's one of those things that "Has to be seen". No worries. Is his name Connie? I've heard of him before, and I'd like to see what he has to offer. If it's a different version of LHPF, then the essential principles should still be in effect. If not, it's just an internal form done externally. Does he have an e-amil address that I could get in contact with him through?

>have a great and safe new year buddy<

You, and yours do the same, mate. Be safe, and have a grand time.

fiercest tiger
01-01-2002, 02:51 PM
yes his name is corneleus or he is called connie! i had lunch with him about the style he mentioned as one of my ykm collegues learnt this system off him.

yes the glutes is correct lol, in oz a$$ is more correct:) hahaha

ill try and get his email for you no probs!

i remember him telling me that it doesnt use LHBF principles and its the opposite of LHBF...?

it uses no yin or yang principles either.:eek:

anyway thats all i can tell you about this style of his and only he has taught 2-3 people the warn yun yut hei jeurng system. it uses a slapping vibration method for striking for what ive seen. he also was friends with bruce lee and has pics of him and bruce etc. he is very knowledgable martial artist too. nice chap!!

NafAnal
01-01-2002, 04:11 PM
And what does he think of Bruce as a fighter?

fiercest tiger
01-02-2002, 02:45 AM
We didnt talk much about bruce lee, but said he was good friends and they have fought together i think he said?!

swmngdragn
01-03-2002, 06:19 PM
Howdy, Tiger. :)

>yes his name is corneleus or he is called connie! i had lunch with him about the style he mentioned as one of my ykm collegues learnt this system off him.<

I'd thought you mentioned it in a previous post. Happy to know that my mind isn't completely gone. ;)

>yes the glutes is correct lol, in oz a$$ is more correct hahaha<

lol :)

>ill try and get his email for you no probs!<

I'd certainly appreciate it. Thank you very much.

>i remember him telling me that it doesnt use LHBF principles and its the opposite of LHBF...?<

It intrigues me. That's for certain.

>it uses no yin or yang principles either.<

Hmmmmm.......

>anyway thats all i can tell you about this style of his and only he has taught 2-3 people the warn yun yut hei jeurng system. it uses a slapping vibration method for striking for what ive seen.<

I'd like to see it in action. I have several questions that probably can't be answered without seeing it first.

>he also was friends with bruce lee and has pics of him and bruce etc. he is very knowledgable martial artist too. nice chap!!<

I look forward to being able to correspond with him. Thanks, Garry. :)

churn-ging
10-03-2002, 02:45 PM
Does anyone know of any good water boxing teachers in the Bay Area? I would prefer teachers in the East Bay, but would be interested in checking out teachers in S.F. also.

swmngdragn
10-03-2002, 09:20 PM
E-mal me, and I'll get some information for you. My e-mail is in my sig. :)

Soykuil
09-21-2006, 04:35 AM
Hey,
Has anyone studying water boxing trained the chi kung method on the 24 Ways to Direct the Chi which teaches the practitioner to harmonize the movement of Chi in the body according to the four seasons and the Reclining Practice which is a taoist practice to reach the inner worlds and achieve enlightenment.

Any information would be appreciated.
thanks