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Stranger
03-10-2001, 07:52 AM
Robert Smith wrote about a tai chi master who performed his forms on his back. Does any internal style address groundfighting? I realize the ground is not their goal, but do they train on the ground?

Waidan
03-10-2001, 09:04 AM
We normally practice groundfighting every class. It's certainly not the main focus of our style (9 Palace), but we work quite a bit on utilizing bagua principles from various positions.

count
03-10-2001, 02:04 PM
have groundfighting techniques to some extent. Ultimately the ground is the LAST place you want to go in the street. It's interesting to note that Cheng Ting Hua was specifically a wrestler before studying bagua from Tung Hai Chuan. I'd like to hear from some Cheng practitioners on this question.
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razakdigital
03-10-2001, 04:10 PM
If we are talking about pa kua theory you shouldn't be on the ground at all...again that's just theory... we practice ground fighting anyway just in case...

TheBigToad
03-11-2001, 05:15 PM
In most respects any good Internal art will be comprised of Shuiajio(chinese wrestling) techniques and Baguazhang (Cheng having the most) will have a lot of it.
Most Shuiajio I practice is made to be devlivered in a freezy/panic situations where its going to be messy and there needs to be designed to cause a lot of harm, ie: head and neck cranks and throws to will land someone on their head and or break a limb during the throw.
I simply don't understand this gorund fighting phase of going for locks and guard postion, people should be snaping an enemies fingers, ripping/grabbing the testicles and ears,hair, gouging the eyes.
In Mexico I watched as a cousin of mine finished off a man when it went to the ground by breaking the "guard" postion by sealing the man's windpipe with his fingers and went for what seemed to be an ankle lock, where actualy he took out his knife and sliced apart the guy's achellis tendon..now thats ground fighting...

Stranger
03-11-2001, 05:41 PM
I know that an internal stylist would not go to the ground in an ideal situation.

I agree, however, with training for accidents (ie. loosed terrain, sloping terrain, combat against a fighter with a more firmly rooted or free flowing base, receiving an injury to your legs). Any of these events could result in an internal stylist ending up on the ground. I am not talking at all about the guard or submissions when I say groundfighting. I was merely intrigued by Mr. Smith's statement and wanted to know if practicing for this possible combat scenario was common. How would one practice tai-chi on their back?

Waidan
03-11-2001, 06:27 PM
It's hard to imagine some movements and postures from a prone position (not impossible, just...kooky). The important thing, IMO, is retaining proper connection on the ground and moving with full-body power. Also, while grappling on the ground, sticking and "listening" to your opponent is vital.

Go check out your local BJJ studio. If they're any good, you'll find them using all of these techniques. There's no magic to what they do, just sound fighting principles and lots of sweat.

TheBigToad
03-11-2001, 07:34 PM
>>How would one practice tai-chi on their back? <<

Proof positive I should read all the above posts. I see what your asking. That had nothing to do with gound fighting at all. Major point in the Internal Arts are about feeling how your body moves on the inside, practicing movement on your back lets you feel the movements in the torso and how well you fill up your body when you breath.
Its not common training anymore, however its not unheard of.

neijiachuan
03-12-2001, 05:19 AM
Internal groundfighting is like Chin Na on the ground using "internal" principles. Any good internal practitioner can use Chin Na with little effort in body movement. Using the dantien and not so much arm and external force.

At my school we do grappling and it is bascially taught like Chin Na from the internal styles.

neijiachuan