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mantis7
02-13-2001, 02:25 PM
I cant belive you guys let shoalin-do into the magazine... I have been studying gung fu going on 20 years and I have never seen anything like what they do..

I have talked to a few of the practioners and they say yes we have this form and that but they have no concepts or ideas of combat... I dont know what sin the was thinking but what the hell evereyone else has created there own styles and got rich so why not him... but they have a tablet given to him OMG i give up I am creating my own system.... I am now the grand master of SHING SHANG DO... ( hairy palm style) I give up... I still am in shock and angry that there article appeared in the magazin and I wonder if there history with the shaggy GM being the abbot of the fukien temple.. I wonder how much of there history they spout as being true.. Did the magazine proof read this did actually research this history.. I hope you did because actually putting htem in your magazine just by reading what you people post how much they are held in high regards.... but my opinion only counts for one and that means one magazine..


Victor

Kung Lek
02-13-2001, 07:19 PM
one school is as valid as the next and some are better than others by nature of the offerings and skill of the teacher.

make your choice and practice your art diligently, there is no need to raise concerns about that which does not concern you.

If you disagree with a schools methodology or claims, simply do not attend that school, go elsewhere.

The same is true and can be said of any school or institution in general.

diversity and variation are the key to keeping all martial arts alive.
all claims are empty until proven in the appropriate venue so by that measure what meaning is there behind what you say? Or for that matter what I say? None, and there is no blame cast.

peace

Kung Lek

mantis7
02-14-2001, 05:39 AM
You are right to say that but saying its ok to have martial arts that are a bad representation is better than no martial arts.... Please I belive in keeping martial arts alive.. I dont not care if some combines say Hung Ga and bak mei or tak kwon do with bagua.... They are representing martial arts as long as there are principals and theory behind it.... I have a beef for a simple reason I have talked with a few shoalin do practioners and they have no concept of what kung fu really is... I guess there is a place for it there must be since it has some many practioners....

The belt thing doesnt bother me or the gi thing like most I say wear what is comfortable for you but saying yes we have gung fu in our system or yes we teach gung fu is completley wrong and unethical..... That is like me saying yeah I do pek gwar gung fu and I start hoping around like some monkey..

As a martial artist or better yet a martial warrior never misrepresnt yourself be proud what you are and the knowledge you posses never proclaim something you dont have possesion of and dupe others into believing this.....

They teach a mantis form for gods sake and all it is them waing there arms around and doing mantis cathes cicada...

Kung lek you should know that a form has a certain principle or tech it is based on but if there is no core to a kune and the principal is no present then you are going through useless body movment....

No as for there lineage I dont really the validity of it nor do I care for good martial arts will stand it no matter the validity of a famous or some obsucre lineage.. I beive in using REal martial tech and I guess that doesnt count for much so I guess you are right the ignorant usually doesnt want to be shown the light..
hey if you dont belive me look at there web site and see what they do...

The author even makes a judgement by saying most of the stuff he saw was wushu based martial arts by 17 boys.. the wushu they do is more close to the classical tech than the shoalin do ....

you are right diversity and variety is what keeps martial arts alive.. I That is y I nver disregard any martial system.. but what I am perturbed about is the way this association conducts and pass there system as..

martials arts is just that and a person or persons portraying themselves as something they are not is just wrong and a injustice to those who are looking for knowledge...

If this was say a Gung Fu school protraying there sytle as BJJ or mantis portraying itself as bak mei or someone doing karate and saying it is the style you teach I am sure you would speak up and bring it to there attention((well i hope you would)))

BEST REGARDS

VICTOR

NorthernMantis
02-15-2001, 01:46 AM
Gene their right.Shaolin-Do are frauds.Not evn close to shaolin.Look at their web sitte posted on the kfo forum.You've been to shaolin and personally seen the kung fu there.

"Always be ready"

GeneChing
02-15-2001, 10:21 PM
To Mantis7: I'm always sorry to lose a reader, but I do think you are over-reacting a bit. If you stop reading a publication because you disagree with one article, how do you read the newspaper? If you want to support the martial community, research everything.

I am well aware of the Shaolin-do controversy. In fact, I met Sin te at Shaolin one year. Ironically, I was asked by the monks to demonstrate with them for his tour group. I doubt he remembers me; I'm sure his whole group was wondering "who's that lousy monk and why is he out of uniform?"

We ran the article for two reasons:
1. The reconstruction of the Southern Shaolin Temple is a fascinating event in the kungfu world. We look forward to its progress and hope to bring you more reports.
2. Shaolin-Do has placed the first tablet there, just as they were one of the first to place a tablet at Songshan Shaolin. Say what you like about Shaolin-do, but at least they are donating to the reconstruction of these venerated martial places and are the first to do so. Those tablets represent a significant donation that often must be renewed. Temple reconstruction requires dontations such as these to become a reality. Some might say that they are buying their way into validation, but are those same critics donating any cash? Gotta pay to play. Admittedly, the article was self-promoting, but if writers weren't permitted to promote their philosophy, I doubt many would bother. There's not much money in martial writing. Shaolin-do's tablets are a positive gesture, one that we fully support.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & kungfumagazine.com

mantis7
02-16-2001, 04:50 AM
Actually I am not stopping purchasing the magazine... I still do enjoy it and you are right there will always be those you try to buy fame and even though there intentions are not forthright they are still entitled to there opinion and I have no right to take away what they are doing... but I will always try and expose fraud where ever it shows its head...

Thank you Gene.. I was wondering do you know if the lineage about the hairy monk is true or not....

also would you concider do a issue devoted to some of the best martial artist of New york city and around the world.. your magazine articles are great but I know alot of neebies decide to train after picking up a magazine maybe this will hep them find credible teachers for there training.. If need be I will be willing to go around New york getting the articles together and the interviews and pictures to help with a project together.. I happen to know quite a bit of the famous teachers in New York....

I could probably get Sifu Carl albright.. Sijo George Crayton.. I could talk to Dixon Fong and try to get Frank yee.. or maybe you could talk to Sifu Pedro Cerpo// Maybe I could convince Sifu Carl to get an interview with Chuen Luen and I know alot of other Sifus thats wouldnt mind appearing in your Magazine..

Hey it could help boost the sales in NEw york as it is a big city and all the students of these teachers would purchase the mag issue just as a keep sake and maybe it might help increase the Magazine subscription rate in the NY area....

Just and Idea...In this way we could help show that there is still traditional schools out there with real lineages.. plus this could help boost prationers in the NY area.. alot of people would love to train in the often small training schools and the ones out in the parks and other areas...


Victor

GeneChing
02-18-2001, 07:51 PM
Well, I am glad that you still support our magazine. Thank you.

As for doing a NY feature issue - that would be great! Actually, I want to do a Hawaii feature issue first. If this magazine is going to send me anywhere, I'd rather HI over NY (no offense NY!) Being that the big three MA magazines are all based in CA, there is a focus more on west coast simply out of practicality. We are not like National Geographic that has on-staff writers that we can send all over the world. The bulk of our articles are from frelance submissions. So perhaps you can write us a piece on some of those masters - we'd love to see it! Our writers guidelines are posted at www.KungfuMagazine.com. (http://www.KungfuMagazine.com.)

As for the masters you mention, we just ran a piece by Pedro Cepero on 5 animals.

And lastly, the hairy monk story - it's one of my favorites. It has a wonderful metaphor. However, I have not heard it from any other source than Shaolin-do and single-source stories are always suspect.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & kungfumagazine.com

mantis7
02-19-2001, 02:51 AM
GENE

That would be great I will try and get interviews and pictures on the some of the most well known and not so well known Sifu's in new york maybe I can get more than a few.... let me see what I can pull out of the air... who knows it maybe a well liked thing... I will contact you as soon as possible...

Victor
:cool:

baji-fist
02-19-2001, 11:55 PM
Hello and greetings from Anchorage,

I am a avid reader of the Kung fu Qigong Magazine here in Alaska. You're magazine has done a lot to promote Bajiquan, which is the style I practice in under sifu Kurt Wong. I was just wondering if there was a January and February issue of Kung Fu Qi Gong? I haven't seen the magazine for the last two months in Borders or Barnes and Noble.

You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet.

BeiKongHui
02-21-2001, 10:45 PM
I was quite disappointed that you allowed Shaolin Do in your magazine and it has quite hurt your credibility with anyone familiar with Shaolin Do or Sin The. I live near Sin The's main gym and have seen a lot of his style. They do not practice kung fu but rather something that appears to be Karate and has Chinese names, in fact up until recently it was actually refered to as "Chinese Karate". Sin The is notorious around here for shall we say "exagerating" his knowledge. Also, if memory serves me correct the tablet at Songshan was paid for by Sharon & David Soards of Shaolin Do's western branch, they allowed Sin The's name to be place at the bottom.
IMHO it is more important for you as Martial artists and JOURNALIST, to get at the truth not to give justification to a fraud.
If you ever want to make contact with some of The's original students who know the truth let me know I'll be happy to put you into contact with them. It would make a very interesting story.

"Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
- When you talk with the hands,
best not to speak of polite hands.

BeiKongHui
02-21-2001, 10:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I was wondering do you know if the lineage about the hairy monk is true or not.... [/quote]

Sin The's brother, Hsunag (sp?), who teaches here as well says they learned from their grandfather who travelled Asia learning bits & pieces of different arts.

For the observant though the Western style 1950's era coat & tie are kind of a tip off. ;)

"Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
- When you talk with the hands,
best not to speak of polite hands.

Brad
02-22-2001, 07:29 AM
Personally, I don't believe a donation to charity valadates giving space to an obvious fraud. I think a Shaolin-Do expose would be a good read. One that was actually researched and not just a flame of course.