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furiousman
07-12-2000, 07:00 PM
Does anyone have any information on the snake fist style?

I know there is tapes available on ESPY on the Chen family style snake fist

RENEGADE_MONK
07-12-2000, 07:06 PM
What exactly do you want to know, if its taped instruction you could also try Panther products...or Asian World of Martial Arts

furiousman
07-12-2000, 07:25 PM
I would like to find instruction in the art. Do you have any knowledge on the subject. Thanks

RENEGADE_MONK
07-12-2000, 07:44 PM
What I do know is that the Snake fist is not a complete system by itself, It is incorporated with other sytems such as Hung Gar, Hung Fut, Hsing-I" 12 Animals ", Jow Ga, and other systems that are based on animal movements.

Paul Skrypichayko
07-12-2000, 10:53 PM
You could go to Hong Kong and look for a good master in "Say Ying Diu Sau Mun". They specialize in snake style, and one of their masters had an excellent reputation.

I've never heard of anybody else doing snake style though.

Ronin9844
02-06-2002, 09:15 PM
Hey, everyone.
I'm kind of new to Kung Fu (I've only been doing Wah Lum for one semester), so I don't really know too much about it.

I was wondering, is Snake style Kung Fu an actual style or system by itself? Or is it more like a part of a larger system, like Five Animals Kung Fu. Do people actually teach Snake style only? Because I just got DOA3 for the xbox and one of the characters does something called "She Quan". I was curious as to wehether such a style actually existed, or if it was just something made up for the game.

Thanks.

ZhouJiaQuan
02-07-2002, 09:19 AM
I think it is both. Im not positive but i think there is a snake system, just snake by itself. although its kinda rare.
I know snake is part of other styles, but i do think it can be a system by itself, its rare though.

Peace,
Wally

Colin
02-07-2002, 10:42 PM
There's a guy in Oxford,uk. that teaches snake style.
His name is R.Durrante I believe?????
I think he's on this forum sometimes!

I saw him perform a snake form a few years ago,at a competition, and it was very interesting to watch.
Lots of smooth flowing techniques, with a lot of floor work. Very agile!

cheers
Colin............

jon
02-07-2002, 11:33 PM
snake=system:confused:
I have never been able to comprehend the idea of a total system made up of snake kung fu.
The animal by its very nature is a one hit kill striker who only attacks vital areas. By creating a system on such an ideal you would HUGELY limit the fighting potensial by forcing it into a very tight mindset.
I know there are some snake systems but i fail to see how the could be anything other than a wushu conglomeration of differing styles all done to look like a snake.
In Shaolin itself i could see being a snake specialist as viable becouse you would already be trained in Lohan and other systems.
I just dont think it suits the mindset of the animal to have a total combat system. How would it do high level chin na with no grip? how would it deal with a situation that didnt require lethal force.
You would HAVE to change the system, at that point you would no longer have the snake mind and you wouldnt really being doing snake.
I just dont get it:confused:

Leave snake as a subset of a fuller system, i think thats where it belongs.

Shaolin Master
02-07-2002, 11:44 PM
Jon that is a very opinionated statement.

Your comprehension arises due to your "experiences" and understandings. Yet you have never experienced true snake methods which involve much more than what your limited knowledge provides.

No system is completely one thing or another (imagine mantis does not "solely" mimic praying mantis etc..).

Mimic styles are a PRC-New-Wushu evolvement. However traditional styles be them animal or other have a little more to them than a single concept and basic mimicking.

PS snakes have bodies, tongue, mouth etc.....so if you get locked and bitten by a python you may revisit your "how can they grip statement" and in regard to your lethal force statement well how does bagua do it (the premise is the same).

Anyways, keep training and as you develop you may evolve your knowlegde base. Of course growing with your attitude and understanding as you progress.

Regards to both William and Joseph.

jon
02-08-2002, 12:08 AM
It was just my opinion, i have only personaly seen a few so called snake systems and they all wreaked of being fake.
I never once tried to state i was right...

"I have never been able to comprehend the idea of a total system made up of snake kung fu."
* This does not imply anything other than i dont see how it could be done. Thankyou for implying im ignorent for not understanding something you clearly do.

"Your comprehension arises due to your "experiences" and understandings. Yet you have never experienced true snake methods which involve much more than what your limited knowledge provides."
* Thanks for pointing out the obvious, I never tried to imply i was talking from anything other than my experience. Im deeply sorry if mine dont match yours. You also have no idea as to what ive seen or experienced, dont try to imply that you do!
Also thanks for the assuming insult. For a start my 'limited knowledge' exactly how would you define limited? Are we all not limited in our knowledge? Perhaps that was my reason for posting. Again you also have no idea what i may or may not have seen.

"Anyways, keep training and as you develop you may evolve your knowlegde base."
* Well thats usualy the general point of training, thanks ever so much for that pearl of wisdom.

"Of course growing with your attitude and understanding as you progress. "
* Here is a tip, progress yours...
You dont know me yet you imply that you know my background, I dont care if you do live in Sydney and you do know pleanty of information. The fact remains your rude and abrasive, I only commented on my experience with a particular style of martial art. You see fit to then judge me and imply that im somehow incompleate. Fine but i dont take lessons from people i dont respect.

"Regards to both William and Joseph."
* Thank you kindly, though i would be VERY interested in just how you know them both to call them by first name?
Do i call your sifu by first name?

I forget sometimes that its basicaly illegal to post on the southern forum unless your instructor. I mean god forbid anyone should come here with personal opinions or experience. The whole place could desend into bedlam!
Did i ever state as fact snake was not a compleate system? NO
I stated clearly i didnt understand how it could be done...

Crimson Phoenix
02-08-2002, 01:28 AM
Snake style definitely exists as a system...as several indeed, I read recently here that Liang Shou Yu's senior student just learnt to their surprise that Liang was the inheritor of a very secretive Emei style of Snake fist...however, I know some other Snake systems exist as well out there (I think I remember one called "White Boa"), and they are definitely not a subset of larger systems...

jon
02-08-2002, 05:09 AM
Rather than have a silly argument maybe we can turn this into a constructive debate.
This is as stated only my opinion and i would be interested in what others think as ive personaly given this much consideration and argued this point before with friends.

For a start my opinion on what i view as a total combat 'system'.
All ranges should be covered, both single and multiple opponents, it should be addaptable to be applied in any situation. It should also have techniques for the whole body as a weapon including all limbs. It should be useable from day one of training right the way though. There should be no assumed knowledge needed, it should be a system for a beguiner or an expert.

Secondly i would also like to state i know there ARE full snake systems around, i can also respect my Hung Ga snake proberly came from a fuller snake system. My problem lies in how its used and the addaptation of the animals spirit.

For me i think of using animal kung fu as in using the animals essence. For me the snake represents a quiet lurker who does not seek combat but if forced prefers to strike when the opponent is most vulnerable and end it with a single strike. When they eat there prey they intagle it with there bodys before either swallowing it or poisoning it. They dont toy with food and they dont fight for land rights or many of the other reasons many other animals do.
Back to snake kung fu now.
Here are my problems with the idea of a snake system as a full combat system.

The snake does not have limbs it uses its mouth and occasionaly its body to insnare.
* From this i fail to see how the full range of human limb movement could be covered.

The snake when it strikes always strikes with its fangs, this is a TINY weapon and when using snake the traditional striker is the fingertips.
* How can you teach a new student to only strike with there fingertips?

The snake also only strikes with intent to kill, it does not play fight and even fights amounst snakes over mates are rare.
* How do you use the system when some drunk guy in a pub takes a disorderly swing at you becouse he doesnt like the way you dress?

My main problems revolve around how low level students would use the art and how it would deal with many situtations without using lethal force.
I think to make a system out of it you would have to be pretty lenient with the whole snake connection. You would need to addapt the art to use fists or palms as well, how about elbows and knees? Snakes dont really have joints, they just have a great long spine.
Its just my opinion but i think a whole system based on snake would be one of two things.
Either a mix of other styles with a general preference for snake and a similarity to the animals movement.
Or very deadly and almost unuseable for many years untill a lot of internal force was developed and the fingers where well conditioned.
This is all just my opinion and if anyone else wants to rebut my views then please feel free. Just do me a favor and make it constructive dont just try to tell me how im wrong or dont understand. Give me some hard examples and arguements and ill be most happy to change my views.

Ego_Extrodinaire
02-08-2002, 05:43 AM
Snake kung fu tries to express the stickness and flexibility that is not usually found in the so called "harder styles" of southern kung fu which in clude Clf, hung gar, shaolin etc. it's interesting that these styles have an element of snake which is little more than the shape of one's hands.

Another name for snake kung fu is wing chun.

ZhouJiaQuan
02-08-2002, 10:53 AM
Hi jon, you bring up some good points, as i dont know any snake i cant really refute your arguments.

I will say however that there are complete animal systems such as tiger, crane, mantis,etc.... In these systems they are not limited only to tiger claws and mantis hooks, and crane beaks. And never in the animla kingdom will you see a tiger grapple or do chin na on prey :) So i would think a complete snake system would have a concentration of snake strikes but also have kicks(very few i would guess, maybe more sweeps???) but still use fists and plams and what not. I think it would all end up in the way they were used.
Just my thoughts, i really dont know anything about snake and just a lil bout kung fu.

Ego, I thought wing chun was based off the both sanke and crane?

peace,
Wally

jun_erh
02-08-2002, 02:25 PM
I have a video of Wudang Mt. snake style kung fu. I think that and the Emei style are what you would call an "Internal" style. The video is 90 minutes long and full of applications. Snake isn't a major style but you can still practice it. There is a nearly dead style called cobra style I was reading about on a Shaolin website. Very Brutal, a Cobra apparently just sort of bites and holds on till you croak, so you can imagine it's probably not a very nice style to spar against. If the Hung Gar guy is saying that Snake is not a complex enough animal for a practitioner to mimic in a form, realize that the level of interpretation in kung fu is often rather abstract in regards to the animal forms. The Dragon being the most obvious example

bean curd
02-08-2002, 05:05 PM
interesting topic.

i'll keep my comments to english although some of the translation can be decieving due to the poetic nature of chinese galigraphy.

snake form is reletivley new to gung fu, although it appeared within the boundaries of the " five animal frolics " and developed later, the snake form has in general been within a system and to some degree not a system in its self.

however that was in the early years later within the ming and certainly within the ching peroids, snake became more known. this isn't to say it was developed within these times, more that it became known publicly at these times.

from memory i believe it was either in the 1928 or maybe just after, but sure not later than 1933 ( because of war ) the snake form fist was shown at a nanking tourney by a man named "liang ".

this style came from chiu lung of the sungshan temple. it is known as the " snake shape artful hand manouvers ", closest to english i can give it.


there are quite a few others that also follow the principles of the above named snake skill but they are family named styles like " li/chen/tan ".

as EGO has stated though they where unknown to southern provinces, these styles all came from the north.

the principls of snake is not what you would imagine and as some have stated already a snake is from tip to tail not just the area of attack as in " posion snake striking ".

principles of snake rely in the elbow, covering what is known as the " 36 elbow manouvers " and also in the feet, following the principles of the " 8 skills of the leg manouvers ".

within these principles also are the sensitivity issues of the above mentioned styles, remembering that snake is an interanl style and an understanding of this is very important to the outcome.

in this day and age a very rare system even in hong kong and china in general it is not shown, and what is generally seen today is more " wushu" that the play of snake art manouvers

well talked too much

jon
02-08-2002, 06:53 PM
Thank you kindly for sharing you obviously have a lot of knowledge.
It was nice to see a reply with an informative edge to it.

Tai Chi is said to be partly based of watching a battle between a snake and a bird, however it uses more the cocept of movement than actualy becoming the animal as per shaolin theory.

Also EGO, WC is much more based on crane than snake although im sure it does have some snake style movements that vast majority resembles crane.

I have also seen a 'Northen White snake' though i wont comment further on that, to protect the innocent;)

I just really dont understand how the would apply the concept of the snake to a full system. At least not in the shaolin five sence, i can see someone simply naming a system snake as that is what the movement resembles [similar to eagle claw] but i cant see how they would build a system based upon a snake.

Anyone else have anything to share?
Has anyone actualy seen a form from a snake system? Would you think it could be applicable in any situtuation or would you feel it would still require other compents to be effective?

jun_erh
"If the Hung Gar guy is saying that Snake is not a complex enough animal for a practitioner to mimic in a form, realize that the level of interpretation in kung fu is often rather abstract in regards to the animal forms."
* Not exactly, what im saying is i dont understand how one could create a whole system based on snake movements. As for your comment on some forms being abstract thats partly my point, i fail to see how anyone could make a true pure snake system without at some point adding in a load of movements that had nothing to do with snake spirit or shen.
Again i know there are some around i just dont understand how they have gotten around the problems i have outlined.

bean curd
02-09-2002, 09:36 PM
jon,

thank you for the kind words.

you have started to train with ho sifu, you should ask him about how important snakes are to chinese people. he will know and understand.

i have not met the man, but he is from the old school so you will learn much if he is willing to share.

from his answers you will see how the play of snake is easily put into a system all on its own

;)

Tiger on Duty
02-10-2002, 01:35 AM
as has been stated earlier snake style exists as a sub set to many styles and is also a stand alone style which of course has many variations thou this style is rarely seen in the west, from the infrormation i have gathered which is little, it contains the characteristics of 3 snakes as its basis the cobra uses vital point strikes and no nonsense fighting forms the viper uses circular techniques reminescent of long fist and tends to be flashier and the python is heavily chin na laden. i myself have seen a promotional video from china showing snake style from the 1980's which is incredible to watch the hand movements are both confusing and beautiful all at once. also the different snakes have different hand strikes cobra the spear hand often seen in pak mei biu jee and in wing chun, the viper uses a fist and phoenix eye and python a grabbing hand. Thou it must be remembered that this is just in general.
hope this has proven useful.

jon
02-11-2002, 03:33 AM
bean curd
I will certainly speak to my sifu regarding snakes, as you say im sure he would be able to tell me more of how the snake is seen in chinese culture.
Can i ask if you know of my sifu? Just from the way you surgest that, it sounds as though you may have heard of him. Just curious is all its certainly not a loaded question.
I know what you mean about the movement aspects and the ideals of how they could be applied to a human form, i guess my main issue is why pick that animal in particular. Especialy from a compleate system standpoint.

Tiger on Duty
Thank you for your post it was an interesting read, i had not considered the idea of using differing snakes for different tactics and hand formations. I once saw a fist in a book called a snake fist that was similar to a pheonix eye but the bottom knuckle was also extended giving the fist a two pronged apperence.
Anyhow thank again for your insights:)


Im enjoying this though ive learnt a lot and all i had to do was start an argument:D
Maybe all our trolls are actualy just students in disguise as they know its the best way to get the info;)

Nichiren
02-11-2002, 06:07 AM
Another name for snake kung fu is wing chun.
No, this is not correct. Look at the thread below for elaboration on this: http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=8938

/Peace

bean curd
02-12-2002, 12:24 AM
jon,

i have heard of ho sifu, though this should not make any differance if heard off or not, skill is skill by ability not by name. ho sifu is from the old school not only by age but by time, so his understanding will be a perspective from old and new.

the stories these men ( elders ) can tell are worth listening too, if he however smiles at you when you ask him to explain a faht, run hahaha, as the the elders usually say , " feeling is a better teacher than hearing " :D

jon i also understand your question and i know
you would not " load " a question, but thanks for clarifing - good mo duk.

tiger on duty has said some good things, he has clarified what i was eluding too, but still ask ho sifu there is much more to snakes in chinese culture, that is worthy to note

cheers

jon
02-12-2002, 05:29 AM
Hi bean curd i hope your well and training is going along nicely for you.
I will certainly ask Master Ho, i spent ALL day today learning to lion dance and at the end had to do four performances in one night. It was my very first outing and was tasked with taking the head[comming from shoalin i have better stances and footwork for lion]. Needless to say i proberly stuffed it rightously but sifu was happy and the crowd really seemed to dig it. I had no idea how fun lion dancing was :) It was a great day really i spent the morning learning Bagua then had lunch with my sifu [always an honor] before spending the afternoon trying desperately to learn the stepping patterns and the different beats.
Sorry for the big rant on Lion dance but i JUST got home and im still buzzing:D

"if he however smiles at you when you ask him to explain a faht, run hahaha,"
* You just made me laugh so hard i spat my drink on the screen:rolleyes: I actualy did JUST that exact thing today.

"Sifu how do i make this move work in combat, is it only a block?"
* He gave me the exact smile you spoke of and asked me to attack, next thing i found myself bent painfully backwards over his knee with his hand sitting nicely RIGHT on my voicebox.
I learnt that one the hard way, still it was worth it:D

Anyhow enough of my pointless musing, its been a long day and wanted to tell someone about it. Im sorry to pick on you:)

Hope your well
Jon

bean curd
02-12-2002, 10:38 PM
jon,

" i'm sorry to pick on you " - not a problem, sounds like you had a good/ interesting day sing si is a great extention to gung fu, everyone should learn it.

gung hay fat choy

jon
02-13-2002, 12:34 AM
Hi bean curd
I would have to agree on the lion being an excerlent form of training for kung fu, if not vital to its development.
I think its mainly to do with connecting with the intagible aspects of martial arts for me but then again im only starting;)
In a funny way it relates to combat becouse you need to let go and follow a flow more than a set movement. Plus the whole swinging around a great heavy lion over your head whilst holding flat level stances for ten minutes.
I got the full run down today on the differences between southern lion, northern lion and Maly lion. We are the northern, needless to say need to stop stomping around so much and be a bit lighter on my feet.
I just cant belive i spent last night stamping around popular Sydney nightspots dressed up as a lion dancing around to a drum.
Life is good:D

Gung Hay Fat Choy to you and your familys [kung fu and regular]

cherrypraxis
02-17-2002, 09:21 PM
hey jon,

i've been waiting for an update about the snakes you mentioned for several days now...

i'm still waiting...:(

-cp

p.s. still waiting for the lion dancing reports too; but you and i know which medium of communication i speak of...

jon
02-18-2002, 05:13 AM
Hi Cherry :)
hehe i havent checked about the snakes yet, i basicaly forgot but now you have reminded me i will certainly try and pry some information.
I will write you via email tommorow regarding the lions as there is no reason to bore everyone with them:)

Anyway I hope master Chan is well and your Bagua is progressing, did you guys do anything for Chinese new years?

Have you found any reference to snakes in your training?
I have heard you discribe the Bagua spinal power generation as a snake like movement and found this very fitting. Does Master Chan ever draw that comparison?

Anyway ill speak to you soon Cherry and again im sorry for being so absent minded lately, about more than one thing:rolleyes:

All the best and keep spinnin:D
Jon

P.S i found out my Masters Bagua linage today. After i picked myself up off the floor and wiped the drool from my mouth i managed to find the words to tell him i wouldnt be going anywhere in a hurry.
I will tell you that in private as well though, he prefers to keep such things out of the public eye and im prone to respect that.
Its not a secret exactly its just something he doesnt want badied around, still i know i can trust you:)

cherrypraxis
02-18-2002, 01:13 PM
hi jon :)

still waiting for the snake info and, of course, your lion dancing.
for chinese new year's master chan gave his students a present and held classes both on new year's eve and new year's day. one of the senior students jokingly said that "all the sweatshops in chinatown are closed today and you're still open!"

i'm loathe to discuss what i don't quite understand though i did mention to you in private that i felt some "thing" a few days ago while i was at ba gua class with master chan. i guess, it was, as you say, "spinal power generation," so, i will leave it at that...

i have only been under his wing for the past two weeks and i have never heard him discuss ba gua in terms of having a snake-like movement. i have heard him describe certain palms as having a "crocodile"-like movement but i have yet to hear him describe the body as snake-like, which makes my experience even more interesting as i felt the impression of a snake from ground to my fist the other day.

maybe, like my sihing said (not to mention a lot of other people), i'm just strange...

;)

-cherry

jon
02-19-2002, 04:17 AM
Hi Cherry:)
I just sent you a great long email regarding the lion dance im sorry to have taken so long.

I personaly think the spinal power generation in Bagua is very snake like in its movement.

Crocodile is one i havent heard though :)
I would rank Bagua as VERY close to Shaolin dragon kung fu, the expression of power and the use in application is quite close to some of the dragon ive learnt.

"maybe, like my sihing said (not to mention a lot of other people), i'm just strange..."
* Or maybe your just a cut above?
Either way, im sure like me they all love you to bits so keep smiling and keep Master Chan happy :)

cherrypraxis
02-19-2002, 07:43 AM
hehe...read your email...nice descriptions...EAT MORE FOOD darnIT!!!

cut above...? nah...but maybe on the pieces part...hehe

shaolin dragon? i'm not too familiar with many CMA so i've no idea how it looks. admittedly, some palms i've seen ARE dragon-like as well...

talk to you later...

cherry ;)

netfreak
03-01-2003, 06:46 PM
Hi all. Soon, (i hope) i will start training in snake style kung fu. Can anyone give some input on the system. Much appreciated.

Sho
03-02-2003, 03:10 AM
Watch Jackie Chan's Snake Fist or Snake in the Eagle's Shadow. ;)

netfreak
03-02-2003, 07:48 AM
I saw snake in eagles shadow, but i'm so used to movies embellishing true martial arts with aerobics and dances that i didn't think it was the real system i was watching. Does this mean that Chan uses authentic systems in his movies?

Sho
03-02-2003, 08:06 AM
I think Jackie wants everything to be real.

CLFNole
03-02-2003, 03:37 PM
I saw an interview with him and he said he made most of it up for Snake in the Eagle's Shadow.

Peace.

Ging Mo Fighter
03-02-2003, 08:10 PM
From a bit of research, the authentic snake system seems to be fairly hidden from western society. In Australia where I live, they have a school in the Eastern states, which teaches SNAKE and CRANE style...

Most Kungfu schools claim to teach "genuine shaolin snake kungfu" but I think many of these are somewhat "sugar coated" - call it a gut feeling if you want

As many of the shaolin systems imitated animal movements, im guessing that the snake system would be very fluid, and emphasise lower back and arm movements, with finger strikes..

As we know today, the finger strike to the eyes is an extremely effective movement, and you would think that this would be one of the main objectives for a snake stylist, to immobilize and sting its prey..

Also snakes are known to wrap themselves around the neck of there prety in a BJJ way.. Mabye snake style kungfu was very similar to BJJ crossed with strikes to the eyes (what the BJJ fighters would probably do if there were NO RULES in the fights)

makes sense to me, but im interested to know more, ?????

Crimson Phoenix
03-03-2003, 02:29 AM
well, there is not "a" snake style, but many of them.

David
03-03-2003, 03:24 AM
A couple of years ago, cyberkwoon published an mpeg of a snake form from a German guy. Don't know if it's still there or if it was a members-only thing...

-David

Bao Jong
03-03-2003, 09:25 AM
Someone I used to know studied a style called "Internal Snake" here in London somewhere. Claimed to have done a lot of Chi Gung and ground work. Dont see him much anymore though. If I see him again I'll get some more info for you guys.

Ben Gash
03-03-2003, 04:05 PM
I remember reading an interview with Jackie where he said they researched traditional snake fist for the role, but it wasn't exciting enough, so they threw in a load of Peking Opera stuff. I must say the snake I know is very subtle, and probably wouldn't look good on film.
I think Shaolin Master has some knowledge/experience of Fuken Snake Boxing.

BrentCarey
03-03-2003, 11:56 PM
I teach five animals, which includes a strong snake element. I encourage my students to develop a specialty in one animal. I currently have one student who is showing a strong affinity toward snake style.

The snake techniques I teach probably number about 15-20, but snake style is more characterized by its approach rather than specific techniques.

Snake is characterized by fluid and deceptive motions with unexpected variations of tempo. As I teach it, snake is primarily defensive. This is primarily because I personally never developed any proficiency using snake style offensively. My son, for example, frequently uses a snake style defense, but switches rapidly to leopard for counterattacks.

It is very difficult to attack a competent snake practitioner. Your attacks disappear into a shifting, twisting mass. It throws your timing off and creates a general sense of something just not quite right.

It is a demanding style, mostly because of its subtlety. Relaxation (as with many styles) is paramount. Techniques switch rapidly from soft to snappy and back to soft. I find it difficult to teach to someone who doesn't "get it." My cop out response is that students either get it or they don't, and that there is nothing you can do about it.

This is just my own shortcoming, not a reflection of the style. However, a natural affinity for the style certainly helps.

-B

netfreak
03-04-2003, 05:26 AM
Thank you all for the input. From what i have read, (from many sources), everyone has more or less the same thing to say about snake. It's supposed to be subtle, fast, finger strikes, defensive,no blocking, more like evading attacks, and include much internal training. I have read about grappling in the style but there's not much info on that aspect. I plan on specializing on this style alone. From all that i have learned tho, this still is highly unsuitable for tournaments because the tecniques used can cause permanent damage. Can anyone voice some info on the grappling aspect and how this style would stand up in a tourny?. (Tho tournaments to me are illogical, martial arts were made to defend, not fight other martial artist.) This is the main reason why i like snake.

David Jamieson
03-04-2003, 05:40 AM
I was taught a Snake form from Shaolin Five Animals style.

It is a whole form but not a system unto itself.
I have also seen other snake forms that belong inside of larger systems.

It is an important flavour of Kungfu for a few reasons.
Just a couple of which are:

It has coiling and springing power generation (like a snake)
It has pinpoint striking methods (like a snake)
It has constricting methods ("")
It has fluidic motion in it's stepping patterns ("")

The form I was taught had as one of it's focuses the work on the breath (Chi).

The form I learned is considered "internal" in it's nature.

I found it (the form) to bring a more holistic approach to how I practiced overall Kungfu.
Where my fundamental tiger forms were once a little "rigid", they became more fluid after practicing snake for a year or two.

The snake has definitely influenced the Tiger in me personally.
The hand forms are interesting and targeting must be precise.
The eyes get a workout as well because of this.

the twisting and coiling motion of the whole body works like an internal massage most times and generally makes me feel good after performing the snake training.

I liked that movie with Jackie (snake in an eagles shadow) :D
I'm going to watch it today!

cheers

Ben Gash
03-04-2003, 11:37 AM
Um, netfreak, martial arts WERE developed to fight. Many of the great MA innovators were soldiers, and the history of MA is littered with duel after duel.

Fu-Pow
03-04-2003, 12:33 PM
Well I personally think that the TRUE snake style is Taiji.

Remember the old story about Zhan San Feng watching the eagle and the snake. Supposedly by watching the snake evade the eagle he got the idea for Taiji.

Golden Arms
03-04-2003, 04:40 PM
Watch the movie: Snake Deadly Act

Ben Gash
03-04-2003, 04:58 PM
Snake in monkey's shadow has some good movie snake.
As for tournaments, a lot of the snake grappling is quite limb destruction orientated, so probably not that good, but then that shouldn't really be the basis for choosing your style.

Cheese Dog
11-12-2003, 07:00 AM
Does anyone here know where I can find info on snake styles on the internet?

Any help is appreciated.

Many thanks,
Cheese Dog

Cheese Dog
11-12-2003, 07:00 AM
Does anyone here know where I can find info on snake styles on the internet?

Any help is appreciated.

Many thanks,
Cheese Dog

Cheese Dog
11-12-2003, 07:00 AM
Does anyone here know where I can find info on snake styles on the internet?

Any help is appreciated.

Many thanks,
Cheese Dog

David Jamieson
11-12-2003, 07:59 PM
yes, make the same post 3 times in teh same forum, that way, someone is bound to reply to one of them :D

crusie the articles here, i believe there are one or two about snake.

you can get videos at http://www.martialartsmart.com

and I would imagine there are one or two more places

cheers

Cheese Dog
11-12-2003, 09:57 PM
DOH!!!

Sifuuckun
11-21-2003, 10:53 AM
it is hard to find, that is for sure.
I have yet to see an authoritative web site that gives you more than a general one page intro.
Of course there are several video productions that are good.
Helen Liang has a beautiful Emei Snake set, with some applications.
There is an artistic video series, from Bob klein with aguest instructor, who teaches a snake form that has chi kung and fighting elements.
by far the best combat snake video i ever saw was green dragons white headed snake video, by sifu John Allen's green dragon studios.
I know that the history of snake style and the lineages of fighting snakes are obscure, probably lost in time, with only legends and tales to rely upon.
I personally know three snake variants, white headed snake, almost identical to the green dragon form, a northern style snake form that i don't even know the name of (my teacher never learned it's name) and a poekelon tjimindi snake (cobra) that i was able to learn from video, by using my previous taining as a reference point. I also learned a LOt of fighting techniques from my shaolin teacher.
By far the best snake stylist fighter in America (by reputation) was Tayari Casel, he calls his style the seven snakes and it is based on six chinese styles and capoeira.

The Xia
07-14-2007, 12:32 PM
Are there any Southern styles that are based primarily on the snake?

Ben Gash
07-15-2007, 02:49 AM
Fujian snake boxing. You'll need to ask Shaolin Master next time he's around, all I know is that it exists.

David Jamieson
07-15-2007, 05:29 AM
It plays an important part in five animals play/styles.

bjj is a good snake style. lol Python! wrap you up, coil up and choke you out. The perfect snake style.

Eddie
07-15-2007, 05:44 AM
Recently we just bought my son a pet snake (corn snake), and I watched it when he had to feed him. The snake coiled around the mouse and in good BJJ style, got the rat in a lock complete with its one arm up locked against its head. The snake squeezed the rat to death and then ate it.

While it was very sad to witness, the mechanics seemed very impressive.

Ben Gash
07-15-2007, 06:46 AM
It's a neglected aspect of the snake, everyone focusses on the darting actions, but if anything the coiling actions are more important. John Painter teaches a Tibetian snake system which is very grappling heavy.

TenTigers
07-15-2007, 06:53 AM
XIA-check your pm's

Golden Spider
07-20-2007, 01:24 AM
Aren't there snake specific forms in Grand Earth? Like "earth snake", if I'm not mistaken. Anybody care to claim variations on that form, or is it a generic, or what?
~ Any practitioners out there? I'm curious about the snake stuff also.
Thanks.

The Xia
07-20-2007, 10:59 AM
Aren't there snake specific forms in Grand Earth? Like "earth snake", if I'm not mistaken. Anybody care to claim variations on that form, or is it a generic, or what?
~ Any practitioners out there? I'm curious about the snake stuff also.
Thanks.
What's Grand Earth? :confused:

Golden Spider
01-16-2008, 08:09 PM
Wow, no responses in all this while. Some panel of experts.

~Grand Earth, is the external half of "Heaven and Earth style", or the primordial foundation for all complete styles. At least according to some taoist traditions.

~Somebody wanna ask Share Lew???

SifuChow
01-21-2008, 06:03 PM
Master Chan Tai San did teach a snake style. He told me that it was comprised of 3 hand forms, a staff form and a broadsword form. I learned one of the hand forms and know another person that learned another one.

I also saw another reference to a snake style while reading about my Si Gung (Leung Tin Chiu). This was on the Kin Mon Siu Lum Gung Fu site (http://www.kinmon.org/offshoot/liang/index.html). You may be able to get more information directly from the snake school because there is a mailing address included. I suspect it is a southern style because my Si Gung was definitely a southern stylist.

ChinoXL
01-21-2008, 10:37 PM
thanks alot chow

Chines
12-02-2009, 07:43 PM
Hi!

Im new here and really interested in snake fist, could you give me some more information about she ying dil sao? except the one in wikipedia:P

Thanks a lot!

Firehawk4
11-25-2014, 07:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzqG5kWCcdU