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Rolling_Hand
10-31-2001, 08:51 PM
As a JKD practioner, how do you deal with the powerful Wing Chun punches?

DragonzRage
10-31-2001, 10:44 PM
The same way I'd deal with any other powerful punch: I control the range and I hit him before he hits me. At the risk of sounding like a flame, I must point out that I have never had much trouble sparring with wing chun guys, from the few times I've worked with some who were willing to go full contact or at least semi-hard sparring with me. Their training and techniques just don't generally seem well suited to full contact sparring engagements. I'd be under a lot more pressure against another muay thai fighter or a good boxer. But I'm not trying to argue about any JKD vs wing chun stuff. I am JKD in my approach and thought, but my personal tools (for striking) are boxing and muay thai more so than Jun Fan, although I do throw my fair share of lead hand attacks and lead sidekicks
;)

"The UFC spawned a new breed of "mixed martial artists." World-class wrestlers learned to kickbox. Champion kickboxers learned to grapple. (The karate experts learned to stay home.)"

Rolling_Hand
11-01-2001, 01:09 AM
-- I control the range

How?

-- I hit him before he hits me

So " Speed " is your game!
What will happen if someone always one step ahead of you?

Cyborg
11-01-2001, 06:31 PM
Not to insult all WC'ers, and I haven't had the opportunity to train with alot of them, but the ones that I have met can't hit hard. Nor do they have enough movement to keep up. They seem so set on trying to trap that they don't do anything else. Now I don't care how good you are at any given thing if you limit yourself to that one thing I'll win every time. And they weren't used to contact.

El_Clap is a WC'er and was at my last fight and can verify that I'm not a Ralek follower.
;)

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee

CerberusXXL
11-02-2001, 02:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>the ones that I have met can't hit hard. Nor do they have enough movement to keep up. They seem so set on trying to trap that they don't do anything else. [/quote]

I think you need to becareful and not generalize things about wing chun. In win chun you hit hard and sometimes you don't, so it simply a matter to the situation at hand. In addition, I have to disagree with you about wing chun people being set on trapping. Although the wing chun fighter thatt you have met may have been set on trapping, I can assure you that in my wing chun school it isn't the case.

In short, the problem that we have today is that there is a lack of great instructor. For instance, in Tampa there are two schools of wing chun and one of them is pretty bad, and one school is giving wing chun a bad name.

Peace.

Cyborg
11-02-2001, 04:39 AM
I did qualify my statement.

In theory WC is well rounded and adaptable. I have yet to meet an WC stylist who is.

If the shoe fits wear it. I'm not trying to start fights here. :)

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee

hunt1
11-02-2001, 03:53 PM
Are you referring to the jason Lau school and Steve Swifts school?

Vankuen
11-02-2001, 08:41 PM
Hey, this guy is trolling wing chun. He was on other forums doing the same crap..."wing chun vs. this art" "wing chun vs that art". It's a never ending argument with no real answer. Perhaps his name should be "Trolling hand" instead of Rolling hand?

In regards to the CYBORG fella...Im not sure where Hico Texas is, but it doesn't sound like a place that would have highly skilled people anyway. Try coming to San Antonio, the highest level Leung Ting Wing Tsun man in the United States is there. Why don't you give his hands a try? I have met him, and although I don't care much for his attitude, he is skilled in his art.

Basically it's my belief that anyone can be beaten at any time. Everyone trains, but everyone cannot be one hundred percent one hundred percent of the time. If you have yet to find someone that can beat you, it's not necessarily because you're that good, a lot of it comes down to the fact that you haven't looked hard enough for that worthy opponent. Or maybe you dont want to?

"From one thing know ten thousand" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

CerberusXXL
11-02-2001, 09:06 PM
To Hunt1,

I didn't want to give names since I'm only studying wing chun for my personal interest.

I train under sifu Steve Swifts and we have a couple of people who came from Jason Lau. The people who came from Jason Lau were only taught the first form (Sium Lim Tao), but they weren't taught the basic such as footwork, hand technique.
Anyway, I'm not going to comment any further, but I would hate to train for one year and not being able to know the basics.

Cyborg
11-03-2001, 05:00 PM
Hico is, as you thought, a small town. It's about three hours drive north of SA. Which is where I had my last sparring match with the WC guy. No, I don't know what school he goes to.

I didn't claim that I never get beat. I answered the question by Rolling Hand which was how I dealt with WC stylists. I also admitted that I hadn't had the opportunity to spar them very much. And I do apologize if I came across as an egomaniac.

At the risk of repeating myself, "if the shoe fits, wear it!" :)

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee

Cyborg
11-03-2001, 05:04 PM
So what's your favored art? And how do you deal with WC or JKD, or for that matter any other art?

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee

Rolling_Hand
11-04-2001, 07:51 AM
--my favored art?

Let's put this way, I like to eat cheese but not swiss cheese... got it??

Rolling_Hand
11-04-2001, 09:07 PM
--the same crap

Do you like swiss cheese?
Go back to your Sifu, it's time for you to learn some more lessons...

El_CLap
11-06-2001, 10:57 PM
Hey Cyborg. Are you who I think you are? If so, then hey what's up?

El_CLap
11-06-2001, 11:13 PM
Would you be referring to Will Parker? Or the other guy who used to train under Leung Ting in S.A.?

Bessho
11-07-2001, 01:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rolling_Hand:
As a JKD practioner, how do you deal with the powerful Wing Chun punches?[/quote]

Talking! Bore him with silly talk. First with Zen offerings, then Concepts and Nucleus. As he slips into unconsiousness, go for KO by talking about style and no style... That'll get him.

Just beware of a true WC dude[ette]. [S]He would kick your butt WITH style :p

Rolling_Hand
11-07-2001, 02:08 AM
Your actions may not be wise, but this isn't time to be heavy-handed. Do what needs to be done. The rest will follow.

Vankuen
11-09-2001, 12:35 AM
what can I say to that? Were dealing with a genius here fellas!

"From one thing know ten thousand" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

Cyborg
11-09-2001, 01:35 AM
VanKuen: you're right, let us bow in unison to his amazing Lung Flu! :p

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee

Rolling_Hand
11-09-2001, 05:12 AM
To some extent that's true. You also have more support than you know. - RH

Cyborg,
--let us bow in unison...

You have a sense of inferiority!!! Don't worry, I have confidence in you. Though progress will be slow, everyone should be reading from the same page. - RH

Bessho
11-11-2001, 09:43 PM
you guy's are probably referring to me ...? i responded in jest cos i was talked to deth by jkd person. finally frustrated, i left when he started yapping about trapping hands. :confused: :mad: :confused:

Rolling_Hand
11-12-2001, 12:02 AM
haha...haha...

Be picky about where to invest your energies!!!

Cyborg
11-12-2001, 12:17 AM
No, I wasn't referring to you. I was mocking Trolling Hands pathetic posts. He's just a troll, note he never gives a real answer, just a cryptic response about how YOU'RE answer was wrong. (I mean, it had to be! After all, you disagreed with him. :rolleyes: )

It's too bad you're in Canada Trolling Hand. But it's good for you, you're safe from me there! :mad:

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee

Rolling_Hand
11-12-2001, 01:48 AM
What did I tell you?
Thanks to me, you're alive!!

wuqigong
12-27-2005, 02:41 PM
I once happened to came in a street fight and I practiced wing chun at that time. I got hit and it didn't hurt. The same time I knew my wing chun punches wouldnt do any harm if that punch that hit me didn't hurt. That's why I dont like wing chun punches and stance. On the street you won't stand in such an unnatural way and you wont punch in a wing chun way. That's way to held in. With boxing or jeet kune do you can really put all your power in and be less limited..for as far in my view. So I'm sure there are others who can use it on the street, but for me it's definetly not..

Vash
12-27-2005, 07:06 PM
Jesus "El Savior" Christ, it must have taken either a Chrismahanakwanzaka miracle or an extremely depraved form of necromancy to bring this thread to the top.

:eek:

viper
12-27-2005, 07:48 PM
this debates reminds me of a saying its not how big it is its how you use it. same with ne system of self defense

glich
12-27-2005, 08:40 PM
hi everyone this is my first post and i'd like to say that im a intimidated by the vast amount of combined knowledge on this forum and within it's users and i hope to bring a bit of my own to help someone els someday.

With that aside I found that viper seems to have summed up the basis for all confontation. Being a primarily self taught jkd/mma hopefull i think that falling into a favorite technique is a very dangoures thing to do. i've been there trust me :)
if you trap to much your bound to get rushed and grappled or some good long range kicks preced by fients might get through.

just my 2 cent

wingchun187
01-06-2006, 08:26 AM
i started training jkd in michigan in 1995 with my brother and found a great jkd school in 1997 i loved the wing chun and the submition wrestling i moved to florida in 2000 and sence then i stuck with a great wing chun school that does ground and standup fighting and i found my home here ....i give thanks to my old jkd school and friends back in michigan but for me wing chun is the what i needed in my martial arts journey and still train daily

NeedsPractice
01-31-2006, 09:17 PM
AS the human torch would say FLame ON

For some strange reason jkd people tend to have a distorted view of wing chun
1-For example I had a friend who took jkd for awhile an he was surprised when I told him we hit mitts and heavy bags as part of our training.
Meaning that as usual his jkd teacher probably gave him the bruce lee anti wing chun spiel that I have heard from several different jkd people-

Also alot of the wing chun "stuff" that is shown in magazines and hyped up like chain punches and trapping are taken way out of context and portrayed like they are the heart of wing chun, but for all the wing chun people I meet from different schools branches etc, nobody ever talks about chain punches and trapping.

shammy
02-10-2006, 03:34 AM
I trained with Sifu Dana Wong in Australia for many years; he was William Cheung's chief instructor for a long time but is now on his own - Qian Li Dao Academy (www.qianlidao.com). His approach to WC is based on principles. Someone earlier in this thread hit it right on the head IMHO, that a lot of WC guys only think about sticking and trapping. Sifu Dana would always say that WC guys are stupid, because they never learn to fake, and for all their talk about having footwork (meaning the TWC guys), they mostly use that footwork to pose their side neutral stances, to make people "know" that they are TWC as opposed to "modified" or "classical" or any of the other WC derivatives that are out there today. That's why you don't see him on many of the internet forums. He feels that most of them just give license for WC guys to sling mud on each other. Anyway, he encourages his guys to spar using boxing techniques and with all kinds of kicking and even grappling and stuff at times. He does this to teach his WC guys to learn how to deal with guys who stick and move, or who try to grapple or box. He often talks to his guys about chi sao also being about the "absence" of sticking, and how that's more valuable. Sticking works both ways, if a guy is good he'll know where you are, just as much as you know where he is, Sifu would often say. Sifu's been quiet, in the mags, and especially on the net, but he trains to deal with lots of stuff, and I'm sure some JKD guys might get a different opinion of WC guys if they paid him a visit. He always says that if you understand the principles, it doesn't matter if you smash the guy with a right cross or a hook, instead of a WC straight punch. It was the principle(s) that got you to that point and to him, that is WC. The actual technique used in execution is really a moot point.

viper
02-10-2006, 06:21 AM
shammy well said and i agree my sifu used to train with william cheung but he runs his own school in queensland. and he is not much different we do boxin and do graplin and if it works use it adapt uno yada yada yada. to many wing chun guys dont seem to realise there are other systems they just talk bout figthin wing chun it seems. well said shammy

shammy
02-10-2006, 06:52 PM
thanks, viper. Don't get me wrong, Sifu Dana still looks at what he teaches as WC, and defines his principles and strategies as coming from it, but he is open to looking for the best ways to APPLY it, for himself and for his students. He often said it was because he got beat up by guys from other systems even after years of training, and it wasn't until he "came out of the shell" so to speak, that he learned to apply what WC tried to teach him, and not try to "pose" WC like so many WC guys do, or to try to explain things only from a chi sao viewpoint or some such "WC" perspective. He said the reality of it all was that he got beat, and so had to go back and look through his training to find the ways to solve the problems. The answers were there, in his WC, but the way he used his WC was astray. I suppose even JKD guys are guilty of the same thing, even though they profess to have "no way as the way". Quite often, I have seen JKD guys hold to such things as techniques they learned from Guro Dan, or I got taught this by "fill in the blank". It's a basic human condition, really, that people will first try to emulate what they're given, in exactly the ways they've been given them, and theh hold them to be gospel truths, even when they're told to let go of them. The late Wong Shun Leung might have said it best for the WC guys, "Don't be a slave to the system, it is only a tool for you to master." That might give an insight into why this thread may have started in the first place, that people (regardless of the style they train in) will usually just try to apply things the way they get given them to train. But one must realize that to get given stuff to train, especially when you've not had any teaching or skill in it beforehand, leads to straight emulation of what's been given, without consideration for options and other things that would "flow" from a situation, if one had experience to add to that teaching. Don't know if I'm getting too vague here, but hopefully it will add some substance to this debate. It really isn't just a WC vs JKD issue, is it? Rather it's a training mentality that anyone of any system or style could probably be guilty of. Again, as always, IMHO. :)

Phil Redmond
02-13-2006, 08:34 PM
I did qualify my statement.

In theory WC is well rounded and adaptable. I have yet to meet an WC stylist who is.

If the shoe fits wear it. I'm not trying to start fights here. :)

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee
I know quite a few of them. It all depends on how the person trains. Some of us train to fight and some don't.
PR