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View Full Version : These things were not invented by Bruce Lee!



Sandman2[Wing Chun]
08-17-2000, 08:59 PM
To all JKD'ers:

Ok, I feel like I need to take a few moments to discuss something that I've seen happening for a long time now, something that bothers me a great deal. Namely, there are several things that I'm always seening attributed to Bruce Lee that were not of his divising, and I just feel like I should point this out. First of all, I'm not saying that Bruce was anything less than an extraordinary fighter. His athletic prowess is without question, as well as the effectiveness of his personal fighting style. But much of what Bruce tried to pass off as his idea, his method of beign "revolutionary" and "non traditional", are things he learned studying wing chun in Hong Kong, and ARE traditional methods that have been used for hundreds of years. One only has to look at Bruce's book "The Tao of Gung Fu", to actually see Bruce's own words about the efficacy of the Wing Chun system. Hell, there's even photos of bruce doing chi sao with Yip man. So here's a short list of things Bruce "discovered" that have been, coincidentally, in Wing Chun for a very long time:

1)The famed 1 inch punch. This is wing chun short jing, the ability to produce whipping force from a short distance. This is only one of several types of Wing Chun Jing that is generated by a WC pracitcioner, we learn to put this type of force into all of our strikes.

2)Using a punch to "stop" a punching attack. Here we have Kuen su Kuen, the use of a punching attack in response to a punching attack, moving the other guy slightly off line while completing your own strike. More basic Wing Chun Technique.

3)The "straight blast". This is what got me feeling feisty in the first place. I recently saw an ad for a Demitri Barbito(sp?), and his video teaching application of the "JKD straight blast", an "upper level advanced technique". This is called Lin wan Kuen, or "chain punching" in WC, and is THE MOST BASIC MODE OF ATTACK YOU LEARN. By the time you've been in WC for 6 months, you have learned to counter this with (I'm not kidding) 1 arm.

4)The idea of simplicity, efficency, and economy of motion beating "flowery" movements. This is the entire point of Wing Chun Kung Fu! WC is completely based on the idea of stripping out anything that might add complication to your fighting techniques. It focuses solely on what is combat effective, as it was built to be a combat art, and nothing else. Punches take the shortest path possible, and even when you are blocking, you are striking simultaneously.

I could go on for a while here, but I've already written an awefull lot. I guess I just really wanted people to be aware of this. Bruce was a great martial artist, of that there is no doubt, and he did many wonderful things that helped to spread Chinese Gung Fu in the west, and honestly, wether he meant to or not he's helped the spread of WC a great deal. And JKD is certainly different from WC, I'm not saying he "stole" the art. But I just get tired of seeing "Bruce Lee's 1 inch punch" and "The JKD straight blast" and stuff like that misrepresented as being things that bruce created. Anyway, no real desire to knock on Bruce, just wanted to raise the general level of awareness.

Thanks!
Sandman[Wing Chun]

GinSueDog
08-17-2000, 09:26 PM
Sandman2,
Hmmm...true, Bruce Lee didn't invent any of these ideas or concepts, but these methods used in JKD are not exactly the same as the ones in Wing Chun. For an example, there are a number of different ways of doing the JKD Straight Blast, Burton Richardson's perferred method is using a Boxing jab/cross combo and track and field sprint footwork, Demitri Barbito is a PFS guy so is most likely going to prefer the track and field sprint footwork but is going to be using the classic WC chain punches for strikes. Many of the ideas in JKD are not original to JKD but were taken and motified from a number of different styles and methods out there. The punches in most schools of JKD are going to be almost pure Boxing with a strong emphasizes on non telegraphic movement and efficency. Most of the concepts used in JKD are going here been developed somewhere else, we just have a different way of executing them that we feel is more efficent and practical is all. Another example is blocking, there is almost no such thing in JKD, other then the shin blocks from Muay Thai and Boxing style parrying. Most JKD guys will either work a destruction or cover-up briefly and then open up with a attack. BTW, most MA ads are written and marketed outside of the control of the Martial Artist, so don't take them at face value. As it is the most places I've train don't teach the JKD Straight Blast until the student has a strong understanding of the basics.-ED

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"The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist


[This message has been edited by GinSueDog (edited 08-18-2000).]

origenx
08-17-2000, 10:17 PM
Sandman2 - Of course Bruce Lee got a lot of his art from existing arts. And he never claimed that he invented all this stuff from scratch. He did create a "new" art that was a collection of his personal techniques, many of which were just modified WC. But, if it was modified in any way, it probably would have actually been "wrong" to call it traditional WC anyway - since it was changed.

08-20-2000, 11:48 PM
Sandman is right plus most "JKD men" do this
stuff like the strait blast wrong and lacking structure. And GinSueDog JKD does not due destruction this comes from Kali wich is not in Bruce Lee's fighting method JKD

GinSueDog
08-21-2000, 12:17 AM
BryanS,
I've trained in both Jun Fan JKD and JKD Concepts. In Concepts some destructions are used from Kali. Yes, Jun Fan does not have destructions. I think it depends a lot on what you consider Bruce Lee's fighting method to be.-ED

thekuntawman
08-24-2000, 03:18 AM
you sell more tapes if you talk "bruce lee this, bruce lee that".

all these people out here are using bruce lee name to give themself credibility and to sell the tapes.

DragonzRage
08-26-2000, 02:00 AM
Sandman,

No offense intended buddy, but I think you're being too sensitive regarding the Bruce Lee/wing chun connection. You have to recognize the fact that Lee never claimed to be creating anything new. He stressed that time and time again and its part of the reason why he regretted coining the term JKD. He never intended to sell the skills he learned from wing chun as his own unique creation. In fact, if you look at his early activities in the USA you'd see that he spent a great deal of time promoting Wing Chun and Chinese boxing in general long before the term JKD was even in his mind. The only book he ever perosnally published to my knowledge was a book on wing chun, in fact.

JKD was never meant to be a brand new and invincible set of techniques. It was just meant as a way for practitioners to seek their own path in martial arts. As for certain techniques used by Bruce and some other JKD people (such as the straight blast, one inch punch), who really cares what you call them? Some people associated the one inch punch with Bruce Lee because he was the first guy they ever saw do it. As for the JKD straight blast, what else are you supposed to call it when a JKD man is delivering a barrage of straightline punches? Why bother calling it the wing chun straight blast? Another ancient gung fu style probably had the straight blast long before wing chun was conceived. Boxing trained strikers such as Vitor Belfort who have no background in JKD or wing chun use the straight blast in their own way as well. The concept of jing in the one inch punch existed in CMA long before wing chun was invented as well. So how can you expect these techniques to be patented to wing chun? Isn't that kind of a double standard? My point is why should we worry about patenting techniques? There is nothing new under the sun and different expressions of the same concepts can be found in various martial arts styles. Its pointless. If it works then learn how to use it. Who cares about what you call it or where it comes from? I think that many classical martial artists worry too much about labeling their knowledge under the specific system they practice. If they use a technique, they have to be able to link it to their style. I guess people tend to find security and confidence by standing behind an institution, ancient tradition, etc rather than accepting the truth in its simplicity. But in the long run, this will only limit their perspective. I personally found much more freedom and clarity when I stopped worrying about whether I was doing a Hung Ga punch, a JKD punch or a boxing punch and instead just PUNCHED. I really couldn't care less about what you call my straight blast. And I don't think that most JKD people out there would either. Just my perspective. Happy training.

~Max

Sam
08-30-2000, 11:31 PM
Many people attribute Bruce's JKD concepts with mostly Wing Chun concepts. If you study his inch punch and angular fighting stance they reflect more of the Southern Mantis he trained in. There are many photo's of him with his fist pointing top knuckle down such as in SPM. I know he has drawn from many arts but I feel Bruce's Mantis influence has been ignored.

sifu dan
09-06-2000, 09:02 PM
bruce had a small understandig of the w system as a whole. he only studied for like 3 years.he is my idol,but you guys that try chain punching with the sprint,have no structure,if a guy stance turns and sticks his foot out,you will go flying.i would only do this if the guy was badly hurt first.also wing chun does have destructions,they are called punishing fast hands,and use the phoenix eye and ginger fist from the 3rd form. i have been doing wing chun for a while,aong with amnde muda,kali,and grappling,but i have made sure i learn these systems in their whole. then i can combine what works for me,hence jkd. if you do not learn wing chun from start to finish,how do you absorb what is useful?yor absorbing what was useful for someone else,the havingto choose from that. you could be missing the techniques from wc which are best for you,because your teacher didnt show them,because he didnt like them.brue did nt in my opinion,say to grab a little of this and a little of that.jkd is a lifetime of study,if you want to really follow the philosophy.i am glad that i didnt start jkd util this year,because i already have all those years of studying other arts,that i can take what is not in the jkd currriculum,from wig chun or mande mda,etc,and use it.the jkd philosophy is what works for you,not what worked for bruc. unless you have all bruces attributes.

HuangKaiVun
09-06-2000, 09:36 PM
I'm probably uninformed, but I don't remember Bruce Lee ever having said that HE invented those things.

shipalohan
09-06-2000, 10:51 PM
the problem i have with jkd is that it has style, it is a style. It's boxing concepts on the street. yes, there is grappling but broken rhythm, offensive defenese, etc. give it style which contradicts what it is suppose to be. And some other things he learend wing chun for five years only and wing chun is an incomplete kung fu system and the forms are done right up and had combination techniques as opposed the northern kung fu where the form are done in 90 degree stance to work the legs and the techniques are split up not one after the other. The fact is wing chun was basic kung fu with crappy forms and northern kung fu (shaolin) is complete kung-fu with good forms.

tsb
09-06-2000, 11:56 PM
Great, another "my style is the best and all other styles suck" perspective. Just what this forum needs.

sifu dan
09-07-2000, 08:51 AM
where do people get the nerve to think one style is s much better tha another?i feel like im on a brailian jj forum.northern shaolin has great stuff,but much of it is not economic.wing chun forms are upright,because we fight uprght.shaolin forms train attributes,butwhen shaolin guys spar,it turns upright.all styles are good,its the practicioner that makes the difference.my silat teacher and friend,herman suwanda,could amaze me,kill me,take me down and submt me wit his feet only,but that wasm him,not the style.the style is great also,but its guys that become their style,that are awesome.

09-11-2000, 10:58 PM
Dan
Bruce lee studied Wing chun for more than 3 years from around the time he was 13 or 14 till left for the US at age 18 thats alot more than 3 years.

BTW Herman Suwanda and his wife have died

Dragon Spirit
09-12-2000, 05:16 AM
Dude no offense but I would just love to see u block Bruce Lee's straight blast with one arm! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

09-13-2000, 02:53 AM
SandMan
You wrote
3)The "straight blast". This is what got me feeling feisty in the first place. I recently saw an ad for a Demitri Barbito(sp?), and his video teaching application of the "JKD straight blast", an "upper level advanced technique"

This same guy said on this forum that JKD
had only 5 technigues so I an sure he is good martail artsist I wouldn't lend him to much credit speacking for JKD

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Promoting Peace through JKD

sct82abn
09-19-2000, 04:30 AM
Great post just one thing i wanted to throw out there.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>if you do not learn wing chun from start to finish,how do you absorb what is useful? [/quote]

just wanted to point out bruce never learned it start to finish.but he did study about 5-7 years i believe,not just three.and most of his study was under wong shong lueng(SP?)not yip man a common belief.

but i agree with you.

GinSueDog
09-20-2000, 07:03 PM
BryanS,
I think you are being a little unfair to Demitri Barbito, and basically taking his post out of contexts. Bring up the whole thread if you are going to bring something he said almost a year ago into this.-ED

"The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist

09-20-2000, 07:20 PM
GinSue,

Iam Not taking it out of context at all
he went on to list those five techniques
and later he came back and said he forgot a couple
But I told him no wonder you have to out and search out all these other arts it is not his fault its the Lineage he comes from it just shows the erosion of Authentic Jun Fan.

Promoting Peace through JKD

The Iceman
09-25-2000, 10:53 AM
Geez I thought I was the only one realized that
Bruce Lee took 90% of his stuff from Wing Chun.
Ever notice that when a magzine shows the most
effective Jeet Kune Do techinques they are all
Wing Chun techinque? Even more the techinques
is the concepts which are pure Wing Chun as well.
That combined with social philosophies that not a
lot of sense in martial arts.

But this to put it frankly is part of the art of
the con. Bruce Lee had to make himself more than
he was becuase he was looking for world wide fame
and he would not get the respect he thought due
him as an under trained Wing Chun guy. Lee for ex
- ample told people when he came to the States th-
at he was the youngest person to ever be made Sifu
in WIng Chun which was an out right lie.Much the
same as he never prove to anyone that he himself
could make Jeet Kune Do work thus created the illusion of greatness for himself. Much in the US
the biggest war hero is John Wayne but John Wayne
never saw combat it is all illusion.

So why infact wouldn`t JKD be an illusion perhap
s one day someone will come along and make it a re
al art that won`t like be until all of Lees` first
generation students are dead because they will ha-
ve to admit certain fundamental truths that Lee
was infact wrong about. Unfortunately that this po
int to say such things would lite a fire storm in
in the true beleivers. And we can`t have anybody
rocking the boat now can we.

The Iceman

GinSueDog
09-26-2000, 12:06 AM
I see very little facts in your post, to say that ninty percent of what is effective in JKD is based on Wing Chun is a bit of a overstatement. If anything in most JKD schools I have trained at there is very little of actual Wing Chun techniques taught in class. I could make a statement that fencing or boxing has more influnce on the developement of JKD then Wing Chun and it would be just as true. As it is this line of arguement is a waste of time and the only reason I see to continue this arguement is to start a flame war. I suggest all you hardcore Wing Chun guys to continue your infighting and to leave JKD both Jun Fan and Concepts out of it. Thank you.-ED

BTW, we all saw how effective Wing Chun was when those two Wing Chun "masters" fought in Germany a few years ago, what a joke of a fight. What were there names again? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist

The Iceman
09-29-2000, 08:07 AM
Damm you mean that John Wayne was in a war I don`t know about /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

shimera
10-09-2000, 05:27 AM
you know what i think is funny here? the ppl who like or do JKD wanna think of their art as a little more independant/fundemental/etc etc "whatever" and those who don't particularly the win chun guys keep pointing out that allmost all JKD is a buncha regurgatated win chun material.
======

moving on, i agree lee was a con *more politely a salesman* looking to make a name for himself but aren't all actors salesmen?>.....
however this doesn't explain his supposed/factual fighting ability.

10-09-2000, 06:56 PM
His fighting ablity is sound he was more than an actor Wing Chun covers the basis of structute and in-fighting but he devloped the other two ranges (long and med range) and created a unige creature that I have used sucessfully.

Promoting Peace through JKD

fish
11-01-2000, 02:37 PM
remember that bruce said that you should only use what is useful, and he only wrote what he found useful in jkd.. he removed the inesentials, from routines that go nowhere. and i totally agree with his thinking.
i did karate for 10 years and one day i thought.. wow this is boring, it dosn't suit me, so i stoped.(no offense to any karate students)
anyways my point is that bruce never finished his JKD, so we can still build upon it
thanks

fish

reemul
11-12-2000, 03:42 AM
Actually everything that bruce professed and that you accredit to Wing Chun have been around since before wing chung. Northern Shaolin systems have practised these techniques for centuries. Also Bruce's philosophies also preceed him "have form without appearing to have form" this was actually
borrowed from the "Sun Tsu: The art of Warfare" of which some text dates back to before 341 b.c. when it was finally written and before that it was passed down orally.

RokKyu
12-02-2000, 12:42 AM
The whole art if Jeet Kune Do is taking what you want and throwing the rest away. If the straight blast works for you...use it, otherwise throw it away. Almost everything in Jeet Kune Do is taken from another art. That's what gives the practictioner freedom.

HuangKaiVun
12-02-2000, 02:36 PM
As I said on the previous page, I don't remember Bruce Lee ever having said that he invented those things.

Unless somebody proves me wrong, I'll claim that it's WRONG to accuse him of having done so.

benny
02-05-2001, 01:41 PM
if bruce was so good how come wong shun leung beat him about 4 or 5 months before he died.

Daedalus
02-05-2001, 11:27 PM
All of this bantering is nice and very informative, but I think that we've gotten away from the point. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, I think that alot of these concepts and techniques were attributed to Bruce Lee mainly because up until Lee began teaching, most of the other sifus' were unwilling to teach non Chinese. And when Lee began lifting that veil of secrecy, people naturally thought that Lee originated the material.

As far as for Lee lieing concerning his Wing Chun credentials, who cares. When he arrived here in America, people didn't know wing chun from jujitsu from karate. All they knew was that Bruce Lee was an awesome dude who knew and could do things that most of the other instructors around could only dream of doing. People didn't care where it came from or how he got it, they just knew that they wanted it. So thats what he gave them.

rogue
02-06-2001, 04:08 AM
Looking at the kind of MA Dan Inosanto is I've often wondered if he is responsible for a lot of Lees JKD. Dan is the martial artist Lee wished he could have been.

HuangKaiVun
02-19-2001, 07:03 PM
"Dan is the martial artist Lee wished he could have been."

From what basis do you make up this statement about Bruce Lee and his PROTEGE, rogue?

Did you talk to Bruce Lee or Inosanto? Did you read their writings? Did you talk to their students?


But it certainly is PROBABLE that Inosanto influenced Lee, as they trained together.


Inosanto on seeing Lee do escrima (Lee had never studied formal escrima, according to Inosanto):

"Hey, that's largo mano!"

rogue
02-19-2001, 11:10 PM
R: "Dan is the martial artist Lee wished he could have been."

HKV: "From what basis do you make up this statement about Bruce Lee and his PROTEGE, rogue?"

Response: Easy, how many systems has Dan Inosanto mastered? Giron System of Arnis Escrima, BJJ, Silat, Muay Thai and Jun Fan Gung Fu.

Now how many systems did Bruce Lee master? Zero, zip, nada. Bruce Lee may have observed, borrowed and used pieces of systems, and used those pieces quite well, but he never mastered any one system.

Take Bruce Lees star power and natural talent, surround him with some very talented people and you have one great legend.

Lee could have been on a level like Inosanto but I believe that he lacked the patience to stick with anything long enough, not to mention his ego.

RAYNYSC
02-20-2001, 03:17 AM
With or without Bruce Lee,Dan Inosanto was & still is an accomplished Martial Artist in his own right...

If it wasn't for Dan Jeet Kune Do may not have gotten as far as it has...

Case in point why was it that after Bruce's untimely death everyone looked to Dan to carry on "Bruce Lees Jeet Kune Do" & by doing so Dan took Jeet Kune Do to the next Level.

There are no two ways around that one if you feel that there is then all I can say is you got issues my friend...

RAYNYSC

HuangKaiVun
02-20-2001, 02:17 PM
Bruce Lee may have not mastered the entire WC system, but he certainly mastered that which he learned from a traditional CMA perspective.

Just look at his videos when he was a young man. That guy really knew what he was doing, and every traditional sifu I've ever had felt that way.

They also have felt that Bruce Lee "mastered" his Jun Fan/JKD system by adding on to it what his incomplete WC years lacked. I agree with them.

It takes great patience to learn anything to the extent Bruce Lee did, rogue. Ask yourself - can YOU do as well as he did WITH your patience?

You'll find out, rogue, that one NEEDS a healthy dose of self-confidence to be as capable as Bruce Lee is. This holds true not just in kung fu, but in any endeavor in which one trains daily to be GOOD.

Dan Inosanto considers himself a Bruce Lee student. He's a great martial artist - yet he studied with one that you said is inferior to him. Why would a master of combat study with anyone LESS CAPABLE than himself?

And I agree with you RAYNYSC. People do look to Inosanto as the rightful heir to the Lee teachings.

rogue
02-20-2001, 04:30 PM
I think that Lee was a natural talent who worked hard, but was also a big self-promoter.

Q. "It takes great patience to learn anything to the extent Bruce Lee did, rogue. Ask yourself - can YOU do as well as he did WITH your patience?"
A. Wrong, it takes hard work to learn anything to the extent Lee did. He wasn't a patient person.

Q. "Dan Inosanto considers himself a Bruce Lee student. He's a great martial artist - yet he studied with one that you said is inferior to him."
A. I did not say Lee was inferior, you did.

Q. "Why would a master of combat study with anyone LESS CAPABLE than himself?"
A. At the time I believe that they were about the same level, yes?

Q. "You'll find out, rogue, that one NEEDS a healthy dose of self-confidence to be as capable as Bruce Lee is. This holds true not just in kung fu, but in any endeavor in which one trains daily to be GOOD."
A. True, but letting ones ego run away with them is something all together different.

"Just look at his videos when he was a young man. That guy really knew what he was doing, and every traditional sifu I've ever had felt that way."
Which videos?


BTW, Lee did help to influence me for years. I beleived his crap about traditional arts for years.

HuangKaiVun
02-21-2001, 01:03 AM
Off the subject: rogue, it's a PLEASURE having intelligent martial arts discussion with you. This sure is a welcome change from the trolling going on here.

The prerequisite to hard work is patience, and Bruce Lee worked as hard as anyone I can think of to master his art.

Your two middle points I understand but feel differently about, and I'll leave it at that. Nice going.

Could you provide me with examples of how Lee's ego ran away?

The videos I'm talking about are the black-and-white ones that he made at the Karate Championship in the 60s. I also am talking about his screen test for Warner Brothers, not to mention his movies. I've seen all these in various Bruce Lee video tributes, and he's VERY IMPRESSIVE.


Personally, I think that Bruce Lee really respected the traditional arts.

I just don't think that he respected the BS that a lot of instructors bring to it - and I know you and I don't either.

rogue
02-21-2001, 03:24 AM
Where'd you get those vids of the Karate Championships? I'd really like to see them.

As to working hard and patience...
I've met guys who work extremly hard for short periods of time. They either master something quickly or if they don't get the hang of something they move on.

Now here's a question that I don't know the answer to, did Lee when making movies in HK ever go back and train in Wing Chun?

HuangKaiVun
02-22-2001, 02:29 PM
Your video store will have any number of Lee documentaries, and I saw my clips in a documentary about martial arts film stars.

When Lee went back to HK, he did go to Yip Man for additional training.

According to Yip Man's son, Lee wanted to take videos of Yip Man - which Yip Man denied.

rogue
02-22-2001, 05:00 PM
Any idea of how much time he spent with Yip Man there?

Was this before or after the "classical mess" statement?

HuangKaiVun
02-23-2001, 07:43 AM
I'm not sure about the timing of that "classical mess" statement, rogue.

I don't think Lee spent much time with Yip after returning to HK.

8stepsifu
03-10-2001, 02:26 AM
I asked Master Sun about him and I heard the exact same words come out of Pan Qing Fu's mouth and I suspect that there is a general consensus amoung CMA Masters.

"Bruce Lee's contribution to the CMA was opening it to the west, for promoting it etc."

When pushed the interviewer asked Master Pan if bruce had kung fu power and Master Pan said something to the effect of, "Yes, he was good."


Let me ask you something? If you were athletic, good looking and charasmatic, (and I'm not saying that you aren't) and came to the US in the 70's when everyone though karate was IT. What would you do? I know what I'd do, I'd try to make myself look like a **** genious with all the new technology. He did claim kung fu's superiority unill he was giving other people spotlight and then there was the "classical mess" and JKD was born. He spouted off about "Become water my friend" in that interview where he looked like a **** nutcase. Now zen/karate/judo was what was going on so he could get away with chinese cliches and people thought he was "The King of Kung FU" "A Kung Fu Master." Well last time I checked being a Kung Fu Master meant that you had mastered a system of kung fu. IN the TKD sense of the word he was a master becasue he had good punches and kicks. With that much of a lead, he ran with it, but then ran too fast and died prematurely. Perhaps he should have applied all the Taoism he was talking about to his own life. If he had then maybe he would costarring with David Caradine on Kung Fu. It makes me wonder what would have happened if he was still alive.

HuangKaiVun
03-10-2001, 05:33 AM
I seriously doubt Bruce Lee would've been costarring with Carradine on "Kung Fu".

The general consensus, including from Carradine himself, is that 1960s Hollywood considered Lee "too Chinese" for the part Lee wrote for himself.

When did Lee ever claim to be a "master?"


And NO, 8stepsifu, Bruce Lee was no master from a TKD perspective.

TKD is far more than kicking and punching anyway!

tnwingtsun
05-05-2001, 07:06 AM
"According to Yip Man's son, Lee wanted to take videos of Yip Man - which Yip Man denied"

I have been told that Yip Man THREW Bruce out
of his house because he was against teaching
non-chinese. :eek: