PDA

View Full Version : Are there any kinds of Qigong that are dangerous?



chessGMwannabe
08-08-2001, 08:19 AM
I was wondering if there have been any cases of people getting hurt from qigong. I've done a little bit, but I wanted to know if there's any danger in different kinds before I just go out trying stuff.
thanks

Ish
08-08-2001, 01:41 PM
I've read that some types of Qigong are dangerous and you have to take certain medicines when you practice it. I have also heard that practicing two different types of qigong can be bad. I don't know that much about it or what types they are its just what i read somewere

Repulsive Monkey
08-08-2001, 03:04 PM
in actual fact no single type of authentic Qi Gong is dangerous if it is practiced correctly. If it is authentic and has be lerant correctly then no Qi Gong will harm you, just the opposite. However there is the potential for every type of Qi Gong, theoretically, to harm you if if it done inncorrectly. It's just like handling a gun on its own it won't do anything when used it has fumction, but if inncorrectly used it can harm you. Qi Gong is a toll and is merely a means to an end. Once accomplishment is met it serves to further purpose, but all the while until accomplishment is met, one has to be dilligent in its application so as to benefit from it and not harm.

ExitusDeorum
08-08-2001, 08:43 PM
Yes. QiGong has the 'potential' to harm you. But you would start to feel it's effects long before it does any serious balance. When you feel any ill effects, all you have to do is stop - the energy will rebalance itself within a matter of days.
Then you think about getting a teacher to train you properly... ;)
I don't know about cross-training in QiGing though... I've been asking around about that and some people say that it depends on the styles...

"Cry shamefully and let loose the turnips of war!"

chessGMwannabe
08-08-2001, 09:31 PM
so it's basically ok to try stuff out then, because if I go wrong somewhere I should be able to feel the bad effects soon enough that I wouldn't do any serious damage. but from what i understand it may be counterproductive for me to practice different kinds of qigong together. I guess that sounds pretty sound, but I thought that teaching your body to do different stuff with chi might make me more flexible and give me better control. you guys seem to be saying that if I want to get into that, I should find a good teacher; which is probably good advice :)

GLW
08-09-2001, 01:10 AM
Not really true.

Qi Gong affects your life energy. From Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), blockages in Qi and imbalances can cause many illnesses and disorders.

If you practice correctly but a bad Qi Gong method or one that is not suited to you, you can screw up the balance in your body, cause blockages, and these things may be noticed...or just like any number of illnesses (like come cancers for example), by the time you notice the problem, the damage has been done.

Then there are those who think that what they are feeling is progress when in reality it is the opposite.

There ARE Qi Gong methods that can be done that are virtually 100% safe. There are also many that require supervision from a good teacher.

Problem is, when you start out, you don't know many times what is good and what isn't or who is teaching correctly and who isn't.

90% of all of the books on Qi Gong are garbage and try to mystify it ...or violate basic TCM principles.

Seek a good teacher and be patient...patience is the first lesson anyway.

PlasticSquirrel
08-09-2001, 06:19 AM
yes, there are some. most notibly, ones that aren't meant for you. what do i mean by that? well, say you are full of blockages, but you try to practice a high-level form that involves things like visualization. by opening some areas, and not others, or by bursting open your channels, you could seriously injure yourself, or cause more imbalance in your body! a real system will have a path of forms that you should should take.

wong kiew-kit warned of the dangers of practicing methods not meant for you at your level of practice in a response to a question about zhan zhuang.

"Zhan Zhuang is a powerful exercise, and is best done under supervision. Those who practice wrongly and still persist on, may vomit blood, have deformed bodily structure, or insidiously damaged internal organs. There are usually warning signs for wrong practice, such as discomfort, pain and nervousness."

-wong kiew-kit

notice, however, that if you were to practice zhan zhuang under a good teacher, you would not deviate.

a good rule to remember is in the beginning, don't use intention, and be relaxed and even with the breathing and form.

qigong generally doesn't use intensive stretching as seen in yoga. there are a few out there, though, such as taught by paulie zink.

chessGMwannabe
08-09-2001, 11:37 PM
Thanks for clearing some of that up glw and plasticsquirrel. I was originally thinking that you might be able to do damage to yourself without noticing immediately when I did the first post. It definately makes sense that you could get to deep for your body's ability by trying too advanced forms; it'd be like trying to bench 250 lbs on your first try at weightlifting, or learning to drive in a semi on the freeway. If your body wasn't used to channeling chi in a certain way, it definately makes sense that it might be best to have someone there who knows what's going on so you don't hurt yourself by doing it wrong until you get the feel of it. plastic squirrel, I think I gave you the wrong impression. when I said that I thought that it might improve my flexibility by x-training with qigong, I wasn't talking about 'splits' flexibility. I was talking a little more around the lines of being able to use chi with control throughout all of my body, and minimize the effort that it took me to do it. thanks again everyone :)

unclaimed effort
08-10-2001, 02:55 AM
If you do it right, you should have no problem.

JerryLove
08-10-2001, 06:31 AM
There are problems if you do the qigong wrong.
There are problems if you combine the wrong activity with the wrong qigong (many don't mix well with sex, or alcohol, or at night).
There are problems if you work the wrong combinations of qigong.
There are problems of you overdo some types of qigong (too much time in a given period on it).
There are problems if your body is not yet suited to a qigong.

IWO, get a compitent instructor for most qigongs.

bearpaw
08-10-2001, 01:25 PM
These are some basic rules we live by at our school:

Don't drink anything an hour before and after qiqong.

Don't eat anything an hour before and after qiqong.

Try to stay out of the cold after qiqong.

Try to stay away from loud noises after qiqong.


Some problems with this and our school:

1) Our school is on a major traffic thoughway. (loud noise)

2) Our school is across the street from a MAS (loud noise, Marine Air Station)

3) It can get really windy where I live (cold, on a mesa between the ocean and mountians)

Ima Pseudonym
09-19-2001, 06:55 PM
give me a call at the your school. this is the toudai who answers the phone.

D

I love the smell of iron palm in the morning, it smells like.... victory

dnc101
09-21-2001, 06:05 PM
I don't have access to Quigong instruction where I live, but I am sarting to try it for its health aspects. I bought a book-Quigong for Health and Martial Arts by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming- and have just started the external forms. This book seems to be pretty straight forward and his methods are well written and easy to follow. And Dr. Yang is, from what I have gathered, a very respected authority in this field. However, if there is the possibility of ill effects from this I want to use caution. If any of you have had first hand experience with "bad" Quigong, or if you have used Dr. Yangs methods, I would be interested in hearing from you. I'm going ahead slowly with my Quigong training, so any other specifics on what signs to watch for that I may be messing up would also be appreciated. Thanks.

SevenStar
10-02-2001, 04:12 AM
"If you practice correctly but a bad Qi Gong method or one that is not suited to you, you can screw up the balance in your body, cause blockages, and these things may be noticed...or just like any number of illnesses (like come cancers for example), by the time you notice the problem, the damage has been done."

This being the case, how do you know if you are getting proper instruction?

"You ain't got enough calcium to have a bone to pick wit me,
like a Gracie, I'll choke a ***** out wit his own gi" - Rass Kass

GLW
10-02-2001, 06:34 PM
"This being the case, how do you know if you are getting proper instruction?"

This is a tricky thing. Teaching yourself Qi Gong can be dangerous...

If you have health problems or special concerns, for example, heart problems, problems calming down that go beyond normal limitations, psychoactive drugs such as prozac, etc... you need to have a much more qualified teacher....preferably one who is extremely qualified in Chinese Medicine as well. This means someone who has a DEGREE from one of the major TCM colleges in China and NOT someone who is just a licensed acupunturist or knows herbs...such people can be dangerous.

Then, there needs to be a constant dialog between teacher and student. The student needs to be aware of what is going on and relaying this information to the teacher as accurately as possible. The teacher needs to be looking and listening to the student for telltale signs of problems.

For the student, the results of incorrect practice will not be evident for a long time. For a qualified teacher, there are many early warning signs of problems and then there are things that a student may say that indicate incorrect approaches to practice and incomplete understanding.

A good teacher then picks up on these signs and alters the students training accordingly.

A good teacher for Taijiquan can practice with the student. The student can then see how it is done. This also applies to external kung fu training.

For Qi Gong, it is next to impossible for the teacher to practice with the student. Correct practice involves getting to a state of no thought in most cases. If the teacher REALLY does this, the student ceases to be of concern. So, in Qi Gong, the teacher teaches, the student does...and then the teacher does on his/her own time.

So...to sum up... you have to have a close contact and dialog with a good Qi Gong teacher.

dezhen2001
12-09-2001, 07:58 AM
ish posted >>> I have also heard that practicing two different types of qigong can be bad.

Why can practising 2 different types of Qigong be bad, as long as you are taught by a good Sifu?

As long as you don't train them at the same time and mix up the principles and movements etc. there shouldn't be any problem...maybe they train the energy differently (for eg. Hard qigong and Soft qigong), but if you do not mix them up, then they are both helping you to become healthy and a better person.

To be honest, i don't think that qigong or any martial art should be done without a competent instructor or Sifu to teach and guide you. Anything that you do on your own has inherent dangers within it, so it is best to have qualified instruction.

thanks,
david :)

Tom1
06-06-2005, 11:44 AM
I can think of a few times when I've tried to practice qi gong or tai chi forms on my own when I've been in a hurry or worried about something and have felt quite unwell afterwards. I'm very much a beginner but thought this was worth sharing. I don't think it was because they were dangerous exercises in themselves, but because I practised incorrectly. I can also think of one time I felt bad while practising in a class but this went away after about 5 minutes. My advice, for what it's worth, is don't practice on your own without asking your instructer first.

David Jamieson
06-15-2005, 07:46 AM
I have never heard of anyone being hurt by doing breath work.

I mean i could see someone pulling a muscle because they have gone too far in their stretch if their is a stretch involved in teh gong they are attempting. I can even understand how the mental aspect can affect someone who already has a mental imbalance.

But actual harm coming from something as gentle as qigongs is a stretch.

I mean can someone give a direct example of their experience wherein they suffered and it is directly attributed to doing a qigong?

btw and fwiw, WKK has some pretty far fetched and overmystified stuff to say about qigong. The practices are for the most part in and of themselves fine.

many qigongs are mental exercises as well as physical exercises.
there is also a great deal of outright hooey doled out with qigong training.

avoid the hooey spewers. :p

move your body, regulate your breath, loosen up and limber up, visualize your health. qigong!

YuanZhideDiZhen
07-03-2005, 04:01 PM
I have never heard of anyone being hurt by doing breath work.


But actual harm coming from something as gentle as qigongs is a stretch.

I mean can someone give a direct example of their experience wherein they suffered and it is directly attributed to doing a qigong?


i don't want to start anykind of dawn out discussion with you but there are consequences to incorrect breathing in qg. fetch a copy of chi nei tsang and do it for several months. if you don't notice something that seems inherently bad to you please let me know.

David Jamieson
07-05-2005, 01:13 PM
Thanks, I'll pass.

GeneChing
07-05-2005, 03:38 PM
Well, beyond misfired hard qigong stuff (and I've seen more than my share of injuries there) the negative effects of qigong, or I should say bad qigong practice, are more subtle. I firmly beleive that qigong can affect people's minds negatively - it can bring stuff to the surface that is hard to process, and those issues can easily make people lose their minds. Now, that being said, I've not seen anyone go stark raving mad, but I've seen more than my share of egotist - in fact, egomania is the most common pitfall - and I do have a fine collection of bizarre letters, even a few manifestos, from various qigong practitioners that are somewhat unstable. I would like to think that the qigong just brought out some instability that was already there instead of thinking that it actually caused mental problems. I think this is where it's important to get a good teacher who can guide you through such obstacles. Of course, how to you know that the teacher isn't nuts too? That is the source of most cults, in my mind.

TonyM.
07-06-2005, 07:03 AM
I was taught to ignore the strange feelings and thoughts. I believe people can work through this with more chi gong and keeping their mouths shut, hands to themselves and pens in their pockets.

David Jamieson
07-07-2005, 07:04 AM
Well, beyond misfired hard qigong stuff (and I've seen more than my share of injuries there) the negative effects of qigong, or I should say bad qigong practice, are more subtle. I firmly beleive that qigong can affect people's minds negatively - it can bring stuff to the surface that is hard to process, and those issues can easily make people lose their minds. Now, that being said, I've not seen anyone go stark raving mad, but I've seen more than my share of egotist - in fact, egomania is the most common pitfall - and I do have a fine collection of bizarre letters, even a few manifestos, from various qigong practitioners that are somewhat unstable. I would like to think that the qigong just brought out some instability that was already there instead of thinking that it actually caused mental problems. I think this is where it's important to get a good teacher who can guide you through such obstacles. Of course, how to you know that the teacher isn't nuts too? That is the source of most cults, in my mind.

ah the Chan sickness. megalomania is probably within the practitioner before they undertake the gongs and it is as likely that they feed the megalomania and inflated sense of self through the idea that using gongs is a vehicle to increase personal power over others. The corruption is set before the practice is undertaken in other words.

In any practice where we ask the old koan "who am I" and set about to delve into our true self, we will invariably be confronted with many things that will make us feel uncomfortable about ourselves and we may even resign ourselves to our negative track record tendencies and accept them as a component of our selves when in fact these, like any other facets of self are tacked on through the day to day doings and riggings of life.

all negative states as well as positive states are fully reversable if one is invlined to be in the moment fully, to accept fully and to commit fully to the recreation of the structure that is the self.

at least in my opinion, this is quite achieveable and involves only the minimal effort of practice over and above the maximum effort of commitment to change.

TenTigers
07-10-2005, 08:01 PM
Jow Faw Yup Moor-ask someone who -one-is Chinese, two-is also adept at ch'i-gung, and you might have your answer. Basically what Gene said is true, and it can get to much deeper levels. Ch'i Gung has become so popular that people think that they can read a book, and now they have an understanding of it.

northernArts
07-18-2005, 04:07 PM
i don't want to start anykind of dawn out discussion with you but there are consequences to incorrect breathing in qg. fetch a copy of chi nei tsang and do it for several months. if you don't notice something that seems inherently bad to you please let me know.

Or any other books by that author. I went to the intermediate level in that system(fusion of five elements formula) and really screwed myself up. :( I'm better now. Now I'm learning from a real master.

Rokto_Obotar
07-18-2005, 05:33 PM
Is Eagle Claw Boxing with Chin Na Skills or (Wudang / Wu-Tang Kung Fu : Bagua Zhang , /w Pa Kua Techniques ), (Wudang / Wu-Tang Kung Fu : Winding Snake Palms) a qiqong? I have been thinking about starting these along with my Mantis Kung fu, but if any of them are qiqongs then i wouldnt consider them.

Mikkyou
07-18-2005, 06:46 PM
You tried to learn from Mantak Chai books I once visited one of his personal students and practiced with the class terrible Tai chi some interesting ideas mostly new age.I thought the inner smile exercise was not to bad of an exercise.
I think doing Qigong exercise involving organs and Medrians can be dangerous if
your mind is scattered and do not know what your trying to do(having qi get stuck there) But I truly feel doing things like 8 piece of Brocade,standing mediation
even some simple deep breathing exercises are not dangerous.And dangerous requiring medical attention.However it is possible for even a begginer to feel
tension,soreness,lightheaded and other minor problems.

northernArts
07-19-2005, 03:20 AM
You tried to learn from Mantak Chai books I once visited one of his personal students and practiced with the class terrible Tai chi some interesting ideas mostly new age.I thought the inner smile exercise was not to bad of an exercise.
I think doing Qigong exercise involving organs and Medrians can be dangerous if
your mind is scattered and do not know what your trying to do(having qi get stuck there) But I truly feel doing things like 8 piece of Brocade,standing mediation
even some simple deep breathing exercises are not dangerous.And dangerous requiring medical attention.However it is possible for even a begginer to feel
tension,soreness,lightheaded and other minor problems.
I learned from his books, his tapes and then in person. I attended a seminar with MC and then as I went further in the system I worked with his instructor in Boston. With qigong you need standing meditation then sitting meditation. And you need a real teacher which MC is NOT, he just puts out information and seems to collect 'practices' that probably were not learned from a real teacher. Although he says he has a lineage I don't believe it. He relies heavily on visualization to move chi and that's a bad idea - you need standing exercises to do it at first then sitting meditation. And MC has a lot of other dangerous aspects to his "healing tao/universal tao" methods.

Mikkyou
07-19-2005, 06:40 PM
I learned from his books, his tapes and then in person. I attended a seminar with MC and then as I went further in the system I worked with his instructor in Boston. Sounds like you spent some time with the Healing tao I knew it was Bogus as soon as he talked about drinking Urine.

he just puts out information and seems to collect 'practices' that probably were not learned from a real teacher I do like the healing smile I find it
to be a great exercise and doctors from Havard have even said it is a great exercise.
He relies heavily on visualization to move chi and that's a bad idea - you need standing exercises to do it at first then sitting meditation.
Why do you have to stand?I never heard anyone say that you HAD to stand to move Qi and move Qi where?

I think somethings are dangerous in his system such as his Iron body,Urine drinking,floating to a planet and other cosmic taoism.

YuanZhideDiZhen
07-19-2005, 07:16 PM
actually,
i was caught by the title as it sat next to one of Chuang Tzu Ni's works and thumbed through it in the store. the diagrams looked like they followed the destructive pattern by Taoist alchemy. if i had to think about it again i'd say he got hold of some of the 'competitive' texts that were used to squash rivals in sectarian battles for longevity. or something like that: like the toxic elixers.