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ShaolinMantis
10-17-2000, 08:46 PM
Greetings family members

The new issue of the USA C.C.K. Taiji Praying Mantis Federation newsletter will be out soon(2-3 weeks).
There is news of importance for next year's memorial gathering, as well as articules & pics from this years activities and a articule from Sihing Mantis 108.
Those who are interested, please see that I have your eMail address.

send to: newsletter@shao-lin-dao.com

xiexie
ZaiJhin

ShaolinMantis...the 1st

Ericsepishii
10-18-2000, 03:34 AM
Thank You for posting this information
on this chat.

Previously only those closely connected
would had access to this type of information.

It's nice to see more openness related to
this matter.

Thanks again.

ShaolinMantis
10-18-2000, 03:56 PM
It is important for the future of Taiji Mantis
that we as the family of CCK, stay informed of all the happenings of our all our groups.
The newsltr is small right now. With the help of other memebers of CCK TCM system donating items of interest from their schools we can grow and become closer overall to our large but spreadout family of Taiji Mantis

Paul Skrypichayko
10-19-2000, 12:46 AM
Would this newsletter be available to outsiders as well? (like myself)

ShaolinMantis
10-20-2000, 12:37 AM
I do not have a problem with that. There are no secerts published, just general stuff about the schools, who's doing what/where, history, local news,etc. Since it is just sent via email it is not a big deal to add another address. Besides maybe you will see how cool we are and change schools, after all fighting is fighting, everyone can do it. Most use guns these days anyway. :-)undefined

Paul Skrypichayko
10-20-2000, 02:57 AM
awwww....c'mon, i wanna learn the TCPM secret gun form!!!

just kidding
=)

I have extreme respect for your style, and for Sifu Chiu Chuk Kai. I wouldnt hesitate at all to learn it.

ShaolinMantis
10-20-2000, 08:36 AM
:-)

...well there is Tom Ng Sibak's school in Edmonton. His students are sharp, humble & respectful. He is a soft spoken & friendly man...
did I say he is there in Edmonton? ;-)

Paul Skrypichayko
10-20-2000, 09:43 AM
Yes, I know him, his colleagues, and his students pretty well. I trained under him for a number of years.

Too bad there aren't more TCPM masters around.

Are there any TCPM sifu's that AREN'T from Sifu Chiu Chuk Kai? (could be anywhere in the world?)

ShaolinMantis
10-22-2000, 05:42 PM
Hmmm interesting question. There must be some, in one of the tails about Sigung, there is mention of classmates of his, but these days , all I hear/heard of TCPM is CCK.
I think I will ask.

initiate
10-23-2000, 05:21 AM
A classmate of mine said he went to a class in california about 6 yrs, ago. If I can get a hold of him I will ask where. He said that this sifu was a classmate of Sigungs and that they recognized Sigung as the successor but not his students. He said that sigung changed the style and that it wasn't the same.The sifu lived somwhere in Cal.. My classmate said that he could recognize the forms although they were done a little bit different.

Papieboni
10-23-2000, 08:40 AM
You must be speaking of Sifu Kam Yuen in Canoga Park in the San Fernando Valley in LA County. I know that he teaches TCPM and 7* forms. One of his top students was Sifu Mike Marshall. Sifu Kam Yuen is the one I think that was teaching David Carradine. I also think that Sifu don Newton and Manuel Marquez are also part of that clan? isn't there also TCPM in the San Francisco Bay area?

peace!

initiate
10-23-2000, 10:40 PM
It wasn't Kam Yuen this guy was in his 70's and was a classmate of Chiu Chu Kai's.I put a call in to my friend,maybe we can find out where he was.

cha kuen
10-26-2000, 05:57 AM
TCPM in San Franciso is sifu William Fong's class.

h00ka
10-26-2000, 08:01 PM
Why do ppl post URLs of webpages that aren't even complete? makes whatever theyre talking about look sloppy, kinda like my writing skill (=

ShaolinMantis
11-06-2000, 06:29 PM
Paul Skrypichayko :
Too bad there aren't more TCPM masters around.

Are there any TCPM sifu's that AREN'T from Sifu Chiu Chuk Kai? (could be anywhere in the world?)
...........

I asked Wong Lam Ling of Walnut Creek about any of Sigung's, Sihings or Sisuks being alive and teaching. He said he did not think there are any left.

He said, he would like to go to China to research this, but to the best of his knowledge there are none.

I will ask a couple of others...

ShaolinMantis
11-12-2000, 07:12 PM
I am putting the last touches on the ltr tonight. It will be sent out over the next couple of days.
This will be in a PDF format.

ShaolinMantis
11-16-2000, 02:42 AM
The newsltr has been sent out. However those who have yahoo.com addresses, the server will not take a file of this size (5 mgs)and sends it back. You will have to wait until it is posted on my website, sorry...

Shaolin Master
11-16-2000, 03:21 AM
Of course there are others (everyone in USA thinks that they have it all...really!)

In China there is a Tai ji mantis research association with many teachers gathered...go there!!

Newsletter ...just USA stuff or something...the world is a big place you know.

Peace & Regards

Shi chan Long

mantis108
11-16-2000, 04:31 AM
ShaolinMaster,

Frankly, I am very uncomfortable with the tone of your post. Is this another lineage war you are trying to stir up or is this a display of the incredibably vast amount of knowledge of Kung Fu styles'history, which you seem to have.

While I preciate you as a knowledgeable Kung Fu historian, I can not apprehend your putting down of ShaolinMantis's effort, one that takes a big heart to accomplish, to promote TCPM of Grandmaster Chui's lineage to the public. After all we are on a public forum. What is this business of "there is Tai Ji Mantis in China"? No one (as far as this thread concern) has yet denied that Grandmaster Chui Chuk Kai had peers in Mainland China. Please clarify your intention. What is your beef with the US TCPM group (mind you, I am from Canada)

May I also take this oppotunity to state this. I have seen a book which claims to be Taiji Praying Mantis from mainland China. The content is a choy suey of Kung Fu history and the so call Taiji Praying Mantis is no more than a bunch of Kick boxing techniques and elementry self defense against blade weapons. There is not a trace of anything near Northern Mantis origin. What I am trying to say is that there are tone of phonies out there and it is not my karma to expose them. People want to fantasize about Chop Seuy Kung Fu, let them be. But if someone tries to undermind my heritage, one that I am extremely proud of and cherish the most, I would not turn my cheek.

I find your conduct very unbecoming as a Buddhist disciple (so you have claimed).

Namasté

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

Shaolin Master
11-16-2000, 05:20 AM
Apologies for misleading the tone...did not intend so...just difficult to display politeness whilst writing short...

Anyway if you read the other posts in the thread they proclaim and even ask are there other TJPM in the world I just responded as yes. Also I question the identification maybe circumstantial of TJPM solely within the USA and then proclaim that many USA Schools are sole remaining inheritors of systems. The fact being that there are many other places in the world and that an open mind is recommended especially if one would like to further their art and relationships with other practitioners. I have no 'beef' with USA TJPM at all I respect all who love and practice their art. Especially your Teacher.

I just ensure as you have noticed throughout that an open and considerate mind is kept for the true progress of CMAs.

I will Help everyone always and I expect the same.

Again I apologise for any misunderstanding and wish the group the best in promoting and discovering their arts.

Shi Chan Long

"It is only by acknowledging good that we create evil, it is a concept of our own mind, and our mind is the buddha...."

Respect and Peace always my Brothers

molum_jr
11-16-2000, 08:20 AM
in China, Plum Blossom Mantis is also know as Tai Chi Mantis, or Tai Chi Plum Blossom Preying Mantis.

Most books that I've seen from China don't come close to looking like CCK style. In fact, most tend to be wushu-lized versions of mantis. Some are interesting w/esoteric forms like Tai Chi Mantis Claw (metal sleeves w/a hook hovering over the fist) or Miao Do (saber) vs. Miao Do. I am looking at the book on my desk. Published Feb 1992, the isbn is 7-81003-541-X/G 413. Doesn't mention any lineage though.

ShaolinMantis
11-16-2000, 05:30 PM
ShaolinMaster;

I am unclear just what your beef is about?
No where is it said Taiji Mantis only lives in the USA. No one I have heard speak has ever said that. The USA Fed. was aproved of and is supported by the elders in Hong Kong. The USA Fed. is working with branches of the Canada schools for a tounament next year. There are visitors coming from Hong Kong next year to support the 10 annversary activites. The purpose of the newsletter is to bring together ALL Taiji mantis players. When it was asked about other Taiji Mantis people around, why not step forward and make yourself known and your lineage, instead of just saying yes. We would love to know more about other cousins, but when asked, all there is is the sound of silence, or a few soft whispers. Have you tryed to contact any members of the USA group to say , we are family we should help each other?

The purpose of the newsletter and the USA Federation is to promote unity among all within the family and not to segergate anyone or fall into petty who the best crap that goes on among some systems... The Federation wants to maintain a standard of teaching, so the style does not fall into a lost footnote in history, or a joke because the sifus skills have decayed to the point the spirits cry.

We are trying to do something postive for all, it is not about USA ego or any one groups ego. You can help the problem or be part of it. Your post does not come across as a postive help. It could be because of the limits of this medium of exchanging ideas that the true meaning of your post was lost or perhaps language interpretation. In which case I am in error in thinking your post was a uncalled for & a groundless negative statment, lacking compassion & in itself a ego based statement. That being so, I appolgize for my jumping to conclucions.

My respects...

ShaolinMantis
11-16-2000, 06:05 PM
For Public Notice to All Taijimantis People, I am always looking for articles, information, stories, history, about your school, linage, history, shifu, sihing, sibaks, whatever, anything to do with Taiji Mantis from anywhere to place in future issues of the newsletter.

Thanx

peace

mantis108
11-17-2000, 01:19 AM
Hi ShaolinMaster,

Thank you for your prompt clarification. Apology accepted.

I can understand your concern of the situation and put forth a reminder that we should keep an open mind. I am sure that our brothers in TCPM of Grandmaster Chui's lineage in anywhere in the world would welcome fellow stylists within or without the lineage with an open heart just as Grandmaster Chui would have. As for the inheritors of the system, IMHO, it is more of a teamwork vision of Sigung than a "who is the heir" to the patriarch (Sigung has a son). Remember the old fable of breaking arrows? One arrow can be broken easily but a bundle of arrows can hardly be broken. As molum_jr mentioned Taiji is also known as Plum Flower in Mainland China although I believe it has splitted into two seperate systems awhile back. With Sigung futher developed Tai Chi Praying Mantis, it's safe to say that TCPM under Grandmaster Chui's lineage has a very unique flavour that other Mainland China lineages would not have. One thing is for sure though, the majority of the history and content of the system is consistant with most Northern Praying Manits styles. Definitely, not some Chop Seuy fabrication.

Thanks for listening.

Molum,

I think that's the same book I was reading (curtesy of Eric Ishii, thanks Eric). Care to share your view on that book?

ShaolinMantis,

I would like to thank you and congratulate you on a job well done. Keep up the good work.


Namasté

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

Ericsepishii
11-17-2000, 07:39 AM
Please note:

There are three mantis systems being talked about here. In PRC (mainland china) there are two distinct schools of Northern Praying Mantis
which are being talked about here.

There is a Plum Flower re: Plum Blossom
Praying Mantis school.

Then there is the Tai Chi Plum Flower
(re: Plum Blossom) Praying Mantis school.

Although the Tai Chi Plum Flower school is
said to also encompass the Plum Flower system,
there is a difference between these two schools.

The Chu Chuk Kai lineage of Tai Chi Praying Mantis
might still be in existence in some remote part
of Shantung / PRC - however, this may have been
reduced to a family system - especially in light
of the Cultural Revolution.

Tse Wing Ming, Sifu, in the Tai Chi Mantis
Peng Pu Boxing book, mentions that there were
10 students that had studied under CCK in Shantung, early on in CCK's teaching career.

However, the CCK lineage of Tai Chi Praying Mantis
is not at all like the Tai Chi Plum Flower Praying Mantis schools in the PRC.

ShaolinMantis
11-17-2000, 08:36 PM
Mantis 108:

xie xie ni Shixiang

ShaolinMantis
11-17-2000, 08:41 PM
In the wooden man book of Sigungs. There is a linage chart near the front of the book. One of Sigung's teachers ( or his tai sifu's ), split/merged into the Plum Flower line, from Taiji Mantis. I do not have it in front of me so I do not have the name. I will check today.

eightgates
11-18-2000, 12:17 PM
Hi ShaolinMantis,

I happen to have my copy (thanks to Mantis108!) and it was the 5th generation masters Syun Yuhn Cheung (Sun Yuan Chang in Mandarin) and Gong Hahp Luhng (Jiang He Long) that started the Taijimantis and Plum Flower Mantis branches respectively.

Best wishes, /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
8gates

ShaolinMantis
11-19-2000, 09:31 PM
I have split the newsltr into 2 parts and resent it to I believe everyone who got theirs kicked back.
So far it worked...

I will still be posting it to my web page sometime this week, unless some other unforseen problems shows itself.

I will also post here the names of a couple of C.C.K. Sigung classmates, later today.

ShaolinMantis
11-19-2000, 11:47 PM
Greetings

Newsltr: Is still kicked back by yahoo.
I'll try to get published end of week, on the web


C.C.K. Sigung's classmates: ( at least three )

Jeung Siu Mo
Lei Chun Cheun
Wong Juk Yuen

these people may have been his sihing's.
Someone maybe able to do some tracking from this.

It would seem that Gong Hap Lung, (Taiji Mei Hwa)taught> Yam Fung Sui, who taught> the above people and Chiu Chuk Kai. They also learned from Chi Sau Jun ( Taiji Mantis ).

Yam Fung Sui also taught So Hak Ban & Wong Gok the Mei Hwa style.

Some of these name may look somewhat different fromsom eothers listing it would be becuase of the pin yin, yale, translation writing.

Reading this chart that there has been a couple of splits and joins during the history of taiji Mantis.

Wong Long taught> Hau Ji Yuen and Hau Git Mantis. these people started ( maybe their own styles )
Ma Keung learned from both . Leung Shi Heung 4th generation learned from Ma Keung. on the 5th generation Suen Yuen Cheung ( or Chang) went Taiji Mantis, Gong Hap Lung went Taiji Mei Hwa

ShaolinMantis
11-29-2000, 05:26 PM
The newltr is now posted on my website. However it is my first time doing it this way , so there are still some kinks in the operation. If you do not have a fast connect, be prepared to
w - a - i - t.

www.shao-lin-dao.com (http://www.shao-lin-dao.com)

mantis108
11-29-2000, 09:04 PM
Sihing,

I think you have an excellent point there. I would open a thread on it. Thanks.

Mantis108

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