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mantis man
07-20-2000, 06:06 AM
Wah Lum people-
Why is it that we see Mimi Chan plastered on every kung fu magazine in the country,and people like Sifu Bob Rosen,who has been dedicating his life to practising,and teaching Wah Lum longer than she's been alive is never even mentioned?
Not only that,but this man has the old style kung fu power that is sadly lacking in most so called sifus.

jut sow
07-20-2000, 09:59 PM
o.k. i'll bite on this one. because wl is politics. master chan is trying to establish mimi, because she couldn't do it herself. she can't speak chinese, which that hurts her. besides, she is moving out to hollywood in september to pursue acting.
as far as bob rosen goes, his kf is good, and it is a shame for him after all the time and dedication. he shouls get more pr. as a matter a fact, he saved wl along time ago with the yao li issue.
the reason for his ability is that he learned the old way when mc was still teaching and cared about it in a fighting sense. now people think they are getting the same, but it is so wattered down. ask the old sifus or old students from 70's and early 80's, they will tell u that the forms are differeny(i.e. say lok, basic stick).

mantis man
07-21-2000, 12:39 AM
My sifu studied under Sifu Jerome Offutt,who was one of Master Chan's first non Chinese students.The training was quite brutal,and my sifu trains us in the same way he learned.
It has changed a lot since then,but luckily,there are a few people left in W.L. who try to keep the old ways alive.

jut sow
07-21-2000, 06:19 AM
ur fortunate, todays training is tag for sparring and in mimi's own words "her personal demo team is geared for performance". because they represent wl. sad day. too many sheep in wl. everyone believes what their sifus tell them, instead of having open mind and questioning. some wl people on these threads have their head so far up their sifus ass.

mantis man
07-21-2000, 06:42 PM
jut sow,
Hit the nail right on the head.I like the health giving aspects of kung fu,but if you haven't developed the fighting part of it,you're missing out on a large piece.
When you hear anyone talk about the old sifus,they don't tell you how healthy,or what great performers they were.They talk about their fighting skills,and power.If more people could work on developing power,body conditioning,fighting intent,and spirit,and stop worrying about backflips ,and how many more forms they can learn,there would be a lot more real kung fu out there.I agree with you about the need to use your own mind.My sifu encourages us to do that.If we have a question,about something,he will physically prove it us.He says "Those that can, do. Those that can't, talk"

KeyEssence
07-22-2000, 02:02 AM
I don't understand everyone's concern with all these never ending debates......1st of all the Aim of Kung FU is Self Mastery! so master yourself and subtract your concern with all these other irrelevant issues, Kung fu opens doors of opportunities for everyone, Some train for fighting....some train for themselves...some train because they love the philosophy, others train for health reasons...and some people might want to take it into movies and the media, whatever the reason everyone deserves the opportunity to enjoy Kung FU whichever path they choose....People like sifu Bob Rosen don't care about being on the cover of a magazine he practices and teaches kung fu because he loves it and that's that.......Mimi also practices and teaches because she loves it, but also loves acting and hopes to make in movies and there's nothing wrong with that, an being on a cover of a magizine is nothing but beneficial to her.........I agree to some extent the authenticity and "old ways" are dying and there seems to be more emphasis on performance than actual fighting but its up to us to keep old traditions alive.......Mantis man I have trained with your sifu and we are quite fortunate to have (old school sifus still around) to everything black theres white train hard..............peace

mantis man
07-22-2000, 02:52 AM
Key Essence-
I agree.However,it's not just a matter of being on the cover of a magazine.It's a matter of giving credit where credit is due.If Sifu Bob Rosen were to stop teaching.Wah Lum would turn into total chaos in New England.He is the force that keeps things in check.It isn't just a matter of loving kung fu.It's his loyalty to Master Chan that keeps him in Chinatown.He could do much better in his own town,financially,but Master Chan wants to keep a presence in Chinatown.This poor man struggles to pay his bills every month,hardly ever sees his family,and doesn't even get mentioned when people talk about Wah Lum.My Sifu stays out of the limelight because he doesn't want to deal with all of this crap.He teaches and practices because he loves kung fu.Once you start to do it for a living,you're not just doing it for the love of it anymore.Your teaching some people you would not otherwise teach,because you have to,or you can't pay the bills.On a different note......When did you train with Sifu Dana Ostiguy? Maybe we've met,and don't know it.

jut sow
07-22-2000, 03:06 AM
this is funny. key ur so quick to defend.wl looks peaceful on the surface, but underneath is another story. if u are not exposed to it from the source, then u will never know, until it smacks u in the face. i know ur not at the source, i know ur sifu tells u there is knothing wrong, all this talk is junk, that's how things get smoothed over. if u want to believe all is well, then that's fine,lol, but contrary to some, their are people who don't like how or what goes on. so don't chastise us, open ur mind and eyes and try to understand, u may not agree, but u might learn something new.

mantisclaws
07-27-2000, 04:47 AM
I have a question, with no offense meant to all Wah Lum students. I have been to Hong Kong many times and have met many Masters who all say the same thing, is Wah Lum a real style? Or did Chan Pui make it up? I have noticed there are no other Grandmasters but Chan Pui (how conveniant) and many movements resemble Hung Ga or Choy Lee Fut.

Also there are southern weapons in the style? And there seems to be an awful lot of wushu in the forms too. I might be wrong, but from what i have heard its more like Wah Lum Inc, than temple.

Many Americans fall for whatever an Asian Master says some times, so it can be easy to get tricked. But maybe i am misinformed.

On a last note I think that most of wah lum sifus and students are excellent at what they do, just not sure of the authenticity of the style.

But when you get down to it, all styles are chop suey and were created by man, Man created kung fu not the other way around, right?

7kicks
07-27-2000, 06:41 AM
Why isn't the wah lum temple in china given much coverage? Are there any masters from that temple? Why hasn't sifu Rosen attained the master level yet? He has been with grandmaster for a considerable amount of time. I think that Mimi will attain that level just because she is the daughter of GM Chan.

NorthernMantis
07-28-2000, 01:09 AM
Wah Lum temple in china was mostly destroyed by the communists.Only a few monks are left and none of them know kung fu.

There are some other kung fu masters in china that were Grandmaster Chans kung fu brothers.After Grandmaster chan came to the U.S. his older kung fu brother came but died since the airplane crashed in an accident.

As far as Sifu Bob Rosen.I don't know why he's not on covers.and mantis man I don't think Sifu Bob Rosen would agree with you bashing my Sifu like that maybe he should see what your saying.

Jut Sow what is your problem man?You need to to back off Sifu mimi.What's this hatred you got agints her.Did she kick your little a$$ or what?You need to stop bashing my Sifu and start worrying about other things.If you do have a problem then why don't you go to wah lum temple and settle things out.I'm sure one of the demo team members will be happy to help you.

Who are you anyway?and who is your Sifu?

TONG LONG LOI
07-28-2000, 03:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorthernMantis:
Wah Lum temple in china was mostly destroyed by the communists.Only a few monks are left and none of them know kung fu.

There are some other kung fu masters in china that were Grandmaster Chans kung fu brothers.After Grandmaster chan came to the U.S. his older kung fu brother came but died since the airplane crashed in an accident.

As far as Sifu Bob Rosen.I don't know why he's not on covers.and mantis man I don't think Sifu Bob Rosen would agree with you bashing my Sifu like that maybe he should see what your saying.

Jut Sow what is your problem man?You need to to back off Sifu mimi.What's this hatred you got agints her.Did she kick your little a$$ or what?You need to stop bashing my Sifu and start worrying about other things.If you do have a problem then why don't you go to wah lum temple and settle things out.I'm sure one of the demo team members will be happy to help you.

Who are you anyway?and who is your Sifu?[/quote]
Northernmantis-It doesn't sound like mantisman was bashing your sifu.It looks to me as if he were asking a logical question as to why a long time sifu in WAH LUM is not being given any recognition for all his efforts to keep the style alive.By your own addmission you say you don't have much experience,so why don,t you let someone who actually knows the answer to mantismans question answer it,and stop whining about people picking on your sifu.

Wah_lum_rapper
07-28-2000, 06:30 AM
Ok tong long dukie head...and he is not whining about his sifu.You just cant take the **** hint jut sow is trying to diss tha wah lum family in general and when he disses the wah lum family he's asking for a beat down.

by the way it sounds... you sound like a karate caca-roach.and ifyou were here i would squash you like a bug.you have disgraced your whole caca-roach species.as a matter of fact I saw your mother yesterday and I asked her hey what neighborhood do you live in.she said by the bathroom.you know that portapotty down by the construcution site.and I said hey! your house smells like sh!t.she started bugging and i decided to bring out the raid.after I was finished with her I went to your home and I saw your dad doing one of those golden caca-roach stances.man was it sloppy!so I brung out my staff and at the end of it I taped it with a bottle of raid .I took care of your family but your dad was a little too hard to handle.he brought out his inner force and I saw a glowing green light and diahrea shot out.So I jumped and did three flips ,count em 3 flips if you can.I landed on the floor and immediately did a sweep knocking your caca-roach dad into the toilet.I saw him concentrating for a split second and with his magical kaka-radee powers he flew into the air.**** that was scary as he11.I ran and closed the door.I used the towed truck and took the portapotty and dumped it into the nearest lake.and I saw this spirit like caca-roach come out and said my disciple will kill you.you will die.since your the next disciple.I will have to whoop your ass.tong long dukie head I will whoop yours for free.

TONG LONG LOI
07-28-2000, 06:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wah_lum_rapper:
Ok tong long dukie head...and he is not whining about his sifu.You just cant take the **** hint jut sow is trying to diss tha wah lum family in general and when he disses the wah lum family he's asking for a beat down.

by the way it sounds... you sound like a karate caca-roach.and ifyou were here i would squash you like a bug.you have disgraced your whole caca-roach species.as a matter of fact I saw your mother yesterday and I asked her hey what neighborhood do you live in.she said by the bathroom.you know that portapotty down by the construcution site.and I said hey! your house smells like sh!t.she started bugging and i decided to bring out the raid.after I was finished with her I went to your home and I saw your dad doing one of those golden caca-roach stances.man was it sloppy!so I brung out my staff and at the end of it I taped it with a bottle of raid .I took care of your family but your dad was a little too hard to handle.he brought out his inner force and I saw a glowing green light and diahrea shot out.So I jumped and did three flips ,count em 3 flips if you can.I landed on the floor and immediately did a sweep knocking your caca-roach dad into the toilet.I saw him concentrating for a split second and with his magical kaka-radee powers he flew into the air.**** that was scary as he11.I ran and closed the door.I used the towed truck and took the portapotty and dumped it into the nearest lake.and I saw this spirit like caca-roach come out and said my disciple will kill you.you will die.since your the next disciple.I will have to whoop your ass.tong long dukie head I will whoop yours for free.[/quote]

You're embarassing Wah Lum by posting this garbage.Please try to answer others in a civil manner.

NorthernMantis
07-28-2000, 08:52 AM
[/QUOTE]
Northernmantis-It doesn't sound like mantisman was bashing your sifu.It looks to me as if he were asking a logical question as to why a long time sifu in WAH LUM is not being given any recognition for all his efforts to keep the style alive.By your own addmission you say you don't have much experience,so why don,t you let someone who actually knows the answer to mantismans question answer it,and stop whining about people picking on your sifu.[/B][/QUOTE]


Tong Long Loi-
why do you have to be such a punk by coming out and telling me I'm whining and I didn't mean that it was mantisman.I DO KNOW more than you think, I'm Sifu Mimi's student remember?I'm not that young.I at least admitted that I didn't know everything to show that I am not perfect but for you to try to insult me that just shows that you're stupid and your Sifu is an even bigger idiot to have you as a student.Trying to lower your mind to an 18 year olds doesn't look good.I bet you probably don't even study wah lum pai so don't worry aboutit.Wah_lum_rapper was right I was talking about jut sow.You **** cockroach baby.

It is natural to defend your Sifu.Just like the 7* PM people stood out for Master Brendan Lai (who I respect very much) and Wing Lam when people challenged their authenticity a while back.No I am not implying that I know them either so don't start getting ready to start calling names.

I'm not worried anyway.Sooner or later someone is going to call your Sifu a fake by the way things are going

You don't have to worry about me anymore.I will not be in this disscusion any longer.
People like you make me sick.

I even think sometimes that it would have been better if kung fu had stayed in china and that it should have never been revealed to the world,including me,especially to the U.S.A in general.

If our founders were somehow to see us now they probably would have let the art die and not have taught anything.

Tong Long Loi get a life and don't even bother trying to to even insult me since I will not come to see this thread again.

For Jut Sow and the rest.I'm tired of this if you want to keep on talking bad about wah lum...go ahead I wont stop you.I hope that you people never achieve the true meaning of kung fu like we all need to.

peace out.

[This message has been edited by NorthernMantis (edited 07-28-2000).]

[This message has been edited by NorthernMantis (edited 07-29-2000).]

jutsow
12-12-2000, 10:12 PM
am i the only one who thinks mantis man must be either bob rosen himself or his mother? ;)

Dennis
12-13-2000, 02:54 AM
Some of the things I have just wasted my time reading in some of the preceding posts are infantile and moronic, to say the least. It makes no sense whatsoever getting personal, and I see no honor in even commenting on the original question regarding Sifu Bob Rosen and Sifu Mimi Chan, etc., if you are not currently a student of Wah Lum Tam Tui.

First off, Wah Lum Tam Tui Northern Praying Mantis Kung Fu definitely and without a doubt, is an authentic traditional style of Kung Fu. There is documented pr oof and a family tree, and neither the history nor authenticity of Wah Lum needs defending. Wah Lum is as authentic as a style gets, and Master Chan is known and respected worldwide, by the grandmasters of all the traditional authentic Kung Fu styles. P retty much, all the grandmasters of those styles are personal friends of Master Chan, and have been for many, many years.

Secondly, I studied Wah Lum as far back as 1980, and I do not see the style presently as being watered down, nor the forms as having changed. I do however notice that Wah Lum students when competing in forms at tournaments, are changing the forms a bit to suit their own desires of trying to impress the judges with flashier moves. Every sifu has their own way of teaching, and that do esn't make them inferior to others; just different. Every sifu in Wah Lum is not at the same level of proficiency (some are more skilled than others), but that does not make what they teach any less effective.

Now as far as Sifu Bob Rosen or any other sifus are concerned, they all follow their own paths in life, and some may want to be more private, while others seek the lime light. I see nothing wrong with either.

I personally believe there are sifus in Wah Lum that could be considered and called masters, but just like Master Chan, they prefer to be called sifu. Now whomever Master Chan ultimately chooses to succeed him as the grandmaster of our style, it is his business, and his alone. That is the job of a grandmaster. They control which way the style will go. Having been dissappointed by his choice of disciples in the past, I can see why he seems to be grooming his daughter to head up the style after his death.

Now if anyone wants to test the current skills of a Wah Lum student or a sifu, to see first hand if our art is effective and authentic, you are personally invited to challenge any of us any time. You'll find that most of us take on all comers. You can find me training with Sifu Jesse Vaughn, in Deland, Florida.

-Dennis Hansen, eighth generation successor of the Wah Lum System, current student of Sifu Jesse Vaughn, and past student of Sifus Shelly Durrell and the deceased Sifu Rick Pacetti. :D

Romans 6:23

[This message was edited by Dennis on 12-13-00 at 07:59 PM.]

MiamiMantis
12-13-2000, 02:59 AM
Why it is every time someone talks about Wah Lum, the whole story gets way out of hand?. People bashing Sifu's?. I've been in Wah Lum 12 years and have seen alot of people come and go. I've been to Sifu Rosen school in chinatown, and after climbinbg a set of stairs that I thought would never end, I entered the school and though it is small compared to the Temple, they have photos on the wall of Master Chan that I've only seen there and no where else. Old Black and white photos. I've only met him once or twice, and really don't know too much about him, but I believe being from the "old school" he really doesn't care about being in the lime light. He just wants to pass on his knowledge to others. And about Mimi. She's Master Chan's daughter. What do you expect???. Politics are in all systems that's just the way it is. It's not good or bad, it's a fact of life. :eek: :eek:

jutsow
12-14-2000, 05:56 AM
mantis man


what possible reason could you have for thinking bob rosen deserves the recognition of being on the cover of a magazine anymore than any of the other hard working wah lum sifus. From what I have seen his kung fu is not what you would expect of someone of his experience,and his attitude and sense of loyaly and manners leave much to be desired.

I dont want to besmerch anyones reputation, but this is how i feel. :(

Hua Lin Laoshi
12-18-2000, 08:43 PM
Personally I think that in a lot of cases getting on the cover of a magazine is more a matter of politics. Any Sifu with a school could write an article and work a deal for coverage. Of course I don't have the inside scoop on this, it's just my opinion.

kalender
12-19-2000, 12:56 AM
Jutsow,you must be a very skilled practitioner of kung fu to have such insight.I ,on the other hand am not so skilled but can truly say that every time I have tested with Sifu Rosen or seen him perform at an event or talked to him,I have come away impressed by his depth of knowledge with regard to kung fu and his deep dedication to Wah Lum.And I have never heard him say a negative thing about anyone,which might be a good lesson for you to follow....Happy holidays.

NorthernMantis
12-27-2000, 03:10 AM
just let the thread die ...

"Always be ready"

jutsow
01-07-2001, 02:31 AM
just curious but does any one out there know what recipe bob rosen uses for the braking of his bricks. nothing personal/ ;) but i dont like bob rosen.in any way. i see no redeeming qualities in him whatsoever.and its not just because of all his many personal flaws. to many of wich to go into detail on this small page.

NorthernMantis
01-07-2001, 02:48 AM
I assume because of your screenname you must be in wah lum so I will say this.Sifu Bob rosen is still wah lum instrsuctor under grandmaster Chan and you must give him repect for the that.That is the tradition and it must be kept.If not then then you are going againts the teachings of wah lum--1)respect grandmaster,respect sifu,respect the teachings 2)learn kindness,learn fellowship,learn kung fu.

I myself have never met Sifu Bob Rosen but I still respect him because he is my sifu's kung fu brother.You may not have to like the man or anyone in the system but you must remember to respect others.It doesn't matter if the person is good or not if someone is a senior in the wah lum system I give them the same respect as my sifu and I believe you should do the same.I'm sorry to be rude but I felt I had to tell you.

"Always be ready"

woliveri
01-08-2001, 08:52 PM
I met Bob Rosen in 84 or 85 but he came to Orlando
for an Aniversary show. He is a very likeable
guy. Friendly and humble. At the time he did a
demonstration of Iron Palm. Broke 4 I think
concrete bricks with spacers. I saw another,
more recent demonstration where he broke 3
concrete bricks with spacers... after 14 or so
years I expected more. I don't think the Iron
Palm training Wah Lum has to offer is anything
sought after. There are no famous Iron Palm
practictioners in Wah Lum that I know of. Wah
Lum has excellent forms. After
that.............. At least what has been
exposed. Once Master Chan poked a student in the
chest and momentarily paralized or immobilized
that student's arm. Do you think he'll ever teach
that? :-)

Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East
By Baird T. Spalding

NorthernMantis
01-09-2001, 12:33 AM
Not to people who are like the ones we have seen on this board including me.Especially the ones who are into mix martial arts.Si gung is extremely traditional and probably would take it to his grave.

"Always be ready"

BIG MANTIS
01-09-2001, 04:22 AM
jut sow if you are an ex wah lum student why do you disrespect master chan and disgrace the wah lum system with your idiotic comments. it is amazing that an ex student of master chans could have such little respect for him and his art. notice i said his art. i have never seen another style that has such a problem with people and their opinions. obviously since all of the negative comments that i have ever read come from supposed ex wah lum students like yourself, it is easy to see why master chan would not want to associate with people like yourself. you are the only person i ever see posting crap like this thread and quite frankly it makes me sick to see the good name of wah lum and master chan tarnished by the likes of a person like you. i personally am a wah lum student and have been off and on since 1990 at the temple, and have seen alot of good people come and go and none of them has anything negative to say about wah lum and if they do they have the decency and the level of intelligence required to keep their big mouths shut. so continue to have diareah of the mouth it just helps validate the fact that your opinions are not worthy of being posted on this or any other thread which deals with the GREAT ART OF WAH LUM OR MASTER CHAN OR HIS FAMILY OR OF ANY SIFUS PAST OR PRESENT IN THE WAH LUM SYSTEM and belong on jerry springer or similar forum where the audience shares your intellect. and personally i could care less if master chan made up a new form today and began teaching it tomorrow, a man of his skill level and knowledge is rare in this world and is certainly worthy of creating any style he wishes. hopefully the true wah lum practitoners that read these negative posts can realize that people like you are not worthy of having their posts even read. and if you doubt the fighting skills of wah lum students come to the temple and ask for paul ill be happy to give you a demonstration. wah lum power will never go sour.. remember that jut sow and if i were you with the quantity of wah lum students out there id be watching my back.

jutsow
01-09-2001, 04:34 AM
i never said i disliked wah lum. i merely stated the fact that bob rosen is a pantywaist ass clown who has many personal and professional flaws. i am sorry if i somehow confused you. i,ll try to be more clear and use smaller words from know on.

jutsow
01-14-2001, 01:25 AM
what is the best way to bake bricks[maybe you can handle this one boby]. just curious. ;)

WongFeHung
01-14-2001, 06:37 AM
Jutsao, I think you just roll'em, and Pat them, and mark them with a B.