View Full Version : how many mantis fighters out there practice Iron body or Iron Palm? What styles?

08-01-2000, 01:36 AM
8 Step trains Chi kung, Iron Body and Iron Palm. Anybody else out there?

08-01-2000, 08:08 AM
What's up 8stepsifu. Where are you from? I'm going to take my sifu test this year. I been doin 8 Step for almost 7 years now. I been doing some of the iron body stuff. I haven't started doing the iron palm.

When man is born he is soft and weak; When man dies he becomes stiff and hard. Thus, the stiff and unyielding follow death; The soft and yielding follow life.

08-01-2000, 08:37 PM
Hello,8step sifu! How are you? I have a qusetion for you. After doing two man brass ring fighting sets, do you need to apply dit da jow after doing hard training with them? I am talking about the two man fighting sets described in this months issue of Inside kung fu maga

08-01-2000, 10:31 PM
Yo Pete, Im in New Hampshire Shopping for insurance so I can set up a school. by the way anybody know of any great martial art insurance? Anyway good luck with your Sifu Test. Are you going to Sioux City to test or are you waiting for the next one? Your probably memorizing like crazy right now. Remember Note cards are your friends, especially since you will be tested over your hundreds of applications by draw out of a hat. Fan Ti, p, p ucut, ucut, grinding mill, etc. Every State representative is staring at you coldly, and yes its intimidating, but if you tested well during your gold mantis, relax, cram and hope for applicatings that your good at. Who is your Sifu? I studied under Sifu Kevin Loftus in South Dakota. For the brass rings...Are you bruising? If you are rub some dit ta jow and rub out the bruises with a rolling pin. (this will hurt) If your not bruising or training in iron body (internal chi kung as well) you probably don't need it. And why are you trying something you saw out of a magazine? I hope for your sake that the author is credible and that you get a real Sifu soon.

Martial Maniac
08-01-2000, 10:38 PM
Do I use the rolling pin first and then the dit da jow? I will trust your judgement and not try this until I have found a legitimate sifu. Thanks for the peace of mind that you have given me.

Martial Maniac
08-01-2000, 10:43 PM
Where can you get a rolling pin?

08-01-2000, 10:59 PM
Hey Maniac, You got a lot of nerve butting into my conversation! But, being a Christian, I will try to forgive you.

08-02-2000, 12:56 AM
I hope I dont sound too condecending or antagonistic, but this perticular post, and its responses, pushed a few of my buttons...

The first question I have is this: How is it possible to become a "Sifu" after only seven years? Some of the Students In my class have been practicing over twice that leangth of time and are exceptionally good at both the internal and external versions... and Sifu does not give tham permission to teach. Kung Fu takes a long time to mature, unlike Karate or TKD, so how can anyone claim to have any kind of mastery over it in just seven short years?

Next is the question about training rings...
What does this have to do with Iron Palm or Iron Shirt?

Finally the comment by curious about being Christian and being forgiving... My friend, being a Christian has nothing to do with being forgiving.

Now for my comment, I would like to begin Iron Shirt training within the next four or five years if it is possible. Sifu believes in strong basics and cultivation of Chi before attempting this. I was wondering what your training consists of in comparison and contrast to what my TCPM master teaches. I have witnessed his Iron Shirt demos, and from the research I am doing for a Magazine article, My Sifu is quite famous for his Iron Shirt. His training consists of specific numbers of strikes to various body points, the force of each strike is gagued by each students chi development. Each session the strikes become harder and more intensely focused. Eventually some of the more senior students were breaking concrete with their heads. (not the little patio blocks mind you, we're talkin' the big 4"-6" jobs.) I wont say they dont have a mark on them when they are done, but it is certainly more than I can see any of those "power team" demonstrators doing !

Again I apologize if I offended anyone with my earlier rantings, for the most part I just try to better understand, it is after all not my place to judge. (However religious comments I do tend to snap at and should curious wish to discuss it further, please feel free to email me, my friend. I just dont feel a Kung Fu baord is the place to discuss it /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif !!)

May peace be your guide and serenity the light for your path.


08-02-2000, 01:33 AM
I apologize, Taji Mantis.Peace.

08-02-2000, 01:49 AM
In 8 step Mantis select students are admitted into the sifu program where they are allowed teach classes. And must complete a certain number of hours teaching before they can test for sifu status. Teaching is a very important part in learning again what you have been taught before. dont u agree? And what good of a sifu are u if you dont learn how to teach?

i think this is very important part of training.

08-02-2000, 01:50 AM
...by the way i am from San Francisco fellow 8 steppers.

08-02-2000, 02:25 AM
After successfully passing the test you have the right to open a school. Our grandmaster even stated that we are by far not done. After testing you still have 18 more years of material to go and another that much to master everything (he says when you take the test that you're still crawling, just babies in the style). Takes a lifetime. Just wanted to clear those things up. Seven years might not sound like a lot but I am very dedicated. I practice everyday and assist in teaching at least 4-5 days a week. Currently I am one of the top ranking students at my school. Well, talk to you guys later. 8Step, I'll be testing this year in Sioux City.

When man is born he is soft and weak; When man dies he becomes stiff and hard. Thus, the stiff and unyielding follow death; The soft and yielding follow life.

08-02-2000, 03:41 AM
I agree with some, but I disagree with some, oh well... /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What about Iron Shirt??

08-02-2000, 05:36 AM
It is possible to become a Sifu after two years. How is it possible? Practice at least 5 hours a day, teach classes, sweat, tears, and blood (in that order) Practicing religeously and fervently and then letting go of it all to feel your chi flowing and center yourself. As for Tae Kwan Do..I don't know. I do know that after three years of intense training I (and other sifus) have made putty out of more seasoned blackbelts of from styles with less technique. These people more often than not become 8Step students themselves. In traditional chinese schools there are public students that work at there own pace, and there are indoor students that paint themselves with pain day after day. In the Sifu program there is rarely a day that your legs are not sore. And after you are a Sifu you are almost a Student of the system. When you operate your own school, then you learn stuff most styles don't know exists.

08-02-2000, 06:49 AM
Yes, but what about the iron shirt?
This was the original topic posted.
Each style has its own requiremants, I am sorry if I made you feel that you had to defend yours so fervently. It was not my intent, and as I said, I agree with some of what you said, and not with others. We do not have to see eye to eye on everything,my friend /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I am interested very much in hearing about your iron shirt(Iron body, Iron Palm)


/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifSawrite Curious /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

08-04-2000, 04:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by curious:
Hey Maniac, You got a lot of nerve butting into my conversation! But, being a Christian, I will try to forgive you.[/quote]

Who's christ?

08-04-2000, 11:21 AM
A Sifu is a father figure/teacher who guides others he has chosen or who have sought him out, regardless of how long he has been training(& many are the Masters who tell a student /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gifk, go teach my system, then I'll teach you more advanced stuff). Some people think a Sifu should be a Master before they train others, & many people arent bothered if the Sifu isnt a Master, depends on the students wants & needs.
Also, there are all kinds of Masters who refuse to take students, until & if of course they decide that they are going to pass on their system to somebody, & then they naturally are Sifus also, if only to that lucky person.
To 8stepsifu: from S Dakota to N Hampshire, you must like the snow here on the E coast? At the very least its not too bad of a hop to N Jersey when Master Sun comes to do a seminar.
Hey Pete, good luck in Maryland.

08-04-2000, 10:15 PM
Yeah Sifu Tosh told me he's meeting you in Baltimore for some San Shou fighting. supacool. It should be a great time. Tell me how it went. Where are you from 1path. I know Pete is from Sifu Jack's school. Oh well. I'll try to hit baltimore next year. San shou is fun. The experience of meeting other fighters from different syles is a great experience. You find an instant comradary once your done staring each other down /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

08-06-2000, 01:49 AM
hello to all 8 step members!!!

"Teaching is a very important part in learning again what you have been taught before. dont u agree? And what good of a sifu are u if you dont learn how to teach"?

To answer this: Yes teaching is a big part in our class but how can one teach if he or she needs to be tought? I know the responsabilitis of being a sifu but I strongly believe that "we" sifus must be given a entirely different class so that we may study, train, and practice at our levels. A lot of times we have to correct each other and it doesn't look good especially infront of new students. I wish something can be done so that we have more time to study and train. I love this system and have no interest in studing anything else. And yes there is a lot to this system and to get to it you have to be deticated and it will come. Good luck Pete your brother.

08-06-2000, 04:09 AM
Teaching while being taught is a very big challenge for a Sifu Student. While they might understand power generation and application if they can't remember the order to the eight kicking blocks then a student thinks that they are worthless. It all works out in the end. Where are all you guys from? What material are you working on? Im a Sifu who hasn't gone to a Sifu camp yet, so I'm going through my material and finding counters to the 40 throws and how one technique goes into the next and then to the next. I also love long forms. (or are they called short forms now?) The ones for throwing or any of the eighth's that are done over and over with power. My goal is 1,000 for every throw or eighth long form. I'm also practicing the 5 sets and doing lots of Tai Chi these days. Im also on day 11/100 in Iron Palm training. I did begining iron body training in 3rd and 4th Gold Mantis Grade. I haven't hit myself in a while.

08-31-2000, 04:28 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 8stepsifu:
Where are you from 1path. I know Pete is from Sifu Jack's school. Oh well.

Where from? Ill take that to mean where did I study 8step, from Master Sun in SF, then moved out to NJ a few years ago.

08-31-2000, 06:38 PM
8StepSifu, and PeteB... looking forward to seeing you in October! FouGo.

09-01-2000, 05:01 AM
who are ya? Are you testing or are you a Sifu?

RAVEN Todd Brenson
09-12-2000, 10:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 8stepsifu:
8 Step trains Chi kung, Iron Body and Iron Palm. Anybody else out there?[/quote] Raven T.B. I have studied iron palm tech.in the past,The training for this is a slam,Have the crave though. brenson@mwt.net

09-17-2000, 09:47 PM
No offense guys, but why would anyone in their right mind want to hit themselves to acquire the iron body? I have read that there is no safeway to condition your body to take blows, even if you use the proper medications.

09-18-2000, 02:25 AM
It takes a lot of chi, but thats why you start slow and so a lot of chi kung fu acompany it. Its probably not the best thing for you, if your a fighter, your doing more harm by no knowing it. Iron body isn't bad unless you get the timing wrong. If you time it right you circle the blow away and arent harmed. Its micro circle tai chi.

8Step Sifu

05-29-2001, 11:37 PM


05-30-2001, 05:31 PM
Sifu Newberry is GREAT. I know him very well. He is one of four Masters of Iron Palm under the Iron Palm International Org. He does classes and demos all over. you can check out some of his stuff at www.prayingmantiskungfu.com (http://www.prayingmantiskungfu.com)

06-04-2001, 08:46 PM
the guy with all caps started up,
and the other guy mentions a student of brian gray,
who goes on to become a mantis guy i guess.
the dead giveaway here is the brian gray - steve swift (wing chun)
connection. both have dubious reputations, and
remind me of the evil white guys in the US martial
arts movies we see sometimes.

look, if your teacher goes someplace else
to learn something else heavy, like for example
iron palm, then your art isnt complete, your teachers
knowledge isnt as complete as it should be as a teacher.
and your evaluation of his worthiness should be updated, as well
as the criteria which put him in that position in
the first place.... or something like that ;)

06-16-2001, 07:15 AM
Sorry about the caps thing, I apologize! As far as you saying if you go some where else to learn something then your art is not complete is quite a big statement. As americans learning chinese arts we are lucky to have the knowledge we do, but as with any great art, complete systems or style, they have weak points and strong points. Most external systems have great fighting aspects but lack the strong internal aspects as found in ba gua or xingyi. No one art has the best of everything, so sometimes its neccesary to search outside your style to strenghten the weakness within that stlye. I was once shown by a master named (ting fong wong) from canton, an unbelieveable demonstration of him drilling his finger through a brick. I was totally blown away and was in a state of awe. later He explianed that he spent more time on internal training with a different master in hong kong because his hung gar training lacked correct finger power! so by your statement does that mean that he should'nt have trained outside his hung gar style to perfect finger strength???? please explain! thank you


06-17-2001, 07:25 PM

What's this about Brian Gray being dubious? I don't know that much about him, so please give me the dirt :)


06-17-2001, 07:43 PM
It dosent seem like "cayge" really knows much about brian so I would'nt take heed to what he says about him! In my opion brian is america's most well liked and knowledgable Iron palm practioners! his skill level is outstanding and his books are very truthful about techniques and "fake breaks" which he points out alot to take some of the awe out of hard to beleive stunts you see so many people do, such as the coconut break! I've met one of his top students and his break consisted of placing the back of his hand on a slab and without his hand leaving contact with the slab turning the palm over and breaking it into 3 pieces with the center of the palm! he is no fake! nor is Brian Grey


06-17-2001, 10:02 PM
ok, heres a simple answer.
if your art doesnt teach you finger training,
and you want it, then go get it someplace you
can learn it.
dont expect your teacher to be pleased, however.
see, weird techniques like drilling a finger
through brick are good for goofing around and
such, and showing people how cool kung fu
training can be, but does that help you in a
fight? i mean, if i found myself in a situation
where a fellow was seriously prepping for
attacking with a finger, i think it would make
itself obvious the intent... i would do what i
could to avoid that finger, wouldnt you?

i just have a hard time seeing guys crosstrain in different styles. didnt the original style do enough for you? just quit and take up another
style completely then!

anyways, i wonder what that guys fingers looked like.

06-17-2001, 10:14 PM
oh please.
read his books, i know i did.
paid 0 for knowledge, 20 bucks
or so for a great guffaw...

to paraphrase (sarcasm added):
"when i was on the mike douglas show
i transported myself back to the shaolin
temple and actually saw myself breaking
these blocks..."

go to his website.
its a f'n advertisement for
his books for crying out loud!
not a BIT of useful information.
oh wait! there is ONE bit of useful
information! I FORGOT! theres
a contact in case you want to order
the books!

thats bogus.

ever try to talk to the guy?
is he available to you via
email or regular mail?
is there a school he teaches at

get your head out dude :)
think about the facts...


[This message was edited by cagey_vet on 06-18-01 at 01:20 PM.]

06-17-2001, 10:51 PM
So what's fake about the coconut break? I was under the impression that it was a difficult feat. I know James Lacey (also surrounded by MUCH controversy) is known for his coconut break.

Actually, I used to have Brian Gray's 2 iron palm books, but I sold them on ebay. I don't remember anything in them about coconut breaks.

I have to agree with cagey that his website is an advertisement, though.


06-18-2001, 05:23 AM
Im not sure what kind of teacher you have had in the past, but a good teacher will allow you explore and learn for your self, the old way of thinking that what your teacher says you should not question is a thing of the past! I learned gojuryu from a school of hard knocks traditional japanese thinking. When a chudan uke(middle block) arm break techique he taught us didnt work his reply was you didnt train hard enough! I thought that It was true, and how dare I question my sensei.once again I will say every system has weak points its up to you in your personal training to better your self. And no good true teacher will be angry for ones eagerness to learn!........ P.S how could iron finger work in a fight you ask? its just as easy if not easier to be poked than being slapped by an iron palm, which from your posts I imagine you have corect? please get back thank you


06-18-2001, 05:26 AM
Im not sure what kind of teacher you have had in the past, but a good teacher will allow you explore and learn for your self, the old way of thinking that what your teacher says you should not question is a thing of the past! I learned gojuryu from a school of hard knocks traditional japanese thinking. When a chudan uke(middle block) arm break techique he taught us didnt work his reply was you didnt train hard enough! I thought that It was true, and how dare I question my sensei.once again I will say every system has weak points its up to you in your personal training to better your self. And no good true teacher will be angry for ones eagerness to learn!......... P.S how could a iron finger wok in a fight did you say? its just as easy if not easier to be poked than slapped with an iron palm, which by your posts sounds like you have correct? thank you please get back


06-18-2001, 05:36 AM
dont get me wrong I am not taking sides nor am I a affiliated with brian grey!I met with one of his students and asked him to give a seminar on breaking at my school. He demonstrated various fake breaking techniques, one of them was the coconut! after seeing how the various breaks were setup it was like seeing a magician show you how his trick was done! very dissapointing reminded me of when the curtain had been pulled back on the great OZ!!!!some breaks used spacers which is physics not skill, others lifted the brick up slightly then struck it, the space made the break again not the skill and the coconut is impossible to break if you dont know the trick! watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!!!!!!!


06-18-2001, 09:52 PM
whether a poke is easier to get off than a palm
is not the issue here, anyways.
my point being, if you gotta go someplace else
to learn more things to add to your 'suite' of
knowledge, rather than to learn how to defend/attack
these things, then obviously your style is not
complete. is that a knock against your style or
ability? probably not overall.
its a knock on your style or ability or TEACHER
if you go someplace else to learn a system that
has things that your style doesnt have.
i am simply not getting through to you i think.
maybe because you dont understand the concept
of 'complete' or 'pure'. if you trained in your
style to the best of your ability, then why shouldnt
you be able to kick ass anywhere, anytime like
in the stories of your founders....
if the FingerPoke guy beats you, train harder in
your style to counter his poke-fu. its that simple.
dont go learn jiu jitsu to beat the PokeFu guy!
train to be better in your own style!
or is your own style not good enough?
see, this brings about another point....
eventually will everyone (except the JJ guys)
crosstrain in all kindsa stuff, so that in 100 years
there will be one martial art? with no purity?
hope not.

06-19-2001, 05:46 AM
To answer your question I do know what a complete/pure system is! I am a sifu of one such complete system (ba bu tang lang) which is a system well known and well respected for its fighting! however form other systems that I have been exposed to shows me that mantis lacks internal kung at High levels (sifu to master) so I chose to go outside our system to learn doctor level qigong from master Yen Chu Feng with the blessings from my shifu. this does not mean we dont have this skill, its just that Jin Gon Tzu Li Gong is better.also you said if you train the best in your style then you should be able to kick ass anywhere statement! means that you dont even understand what martial arts is! that sounds like a new student's attitude who take kung fu to learn how to fight, if this is your main objective in your trianing then it is pointless to argue for you are missing the big picture!and by the way every master in every stlye has crossed trained to blend different styles to gether to make hybrid ones! other wise we would only have the 18 movements of the lohan from (Damo) Boddidarma! just out of curiousity what art are you training in? how long? from who?


06-19-2001, 08:38 PM
typical answer, typical troll....
"thats not what martial arts is about..."
thats what martial arts is MOSTLY, fighting.
the other stuff is an adjunct. look it up in the dictionary. "adjunct"...
use a dictionary every once in a while....

anyways, if you want meditation then you dont need
to study 'martial arts' for that. do yoga. if you want health,
do yoga and exercise and eat right.
and your style isnt complete if you have to go
elsewhere to learn something your style doesnt have.

and you have NO idea what you are talking about when
you say that every master learns other styles to blend things in...
sheesh... it doesnt matter where i train, or who i train under.
ask me about internal martial arts and i will answer.
i dont care who you study under actually because you
embarass your family by posting such rambling
and screwy statements. it doesnt matter who/what/when you train... how old are you again??
yea i understand what martial arts is, and isnt.
too bad you dont... cryin' shame actually, for a
'sifu' even. is that you on those web pages you
spam us with? you should be ashamed of yourself.
you dishonor the internet community with your
ignorance, so i can only conclude that with the
same ignorance, you shame your kung fu family in
the same fashion.
it is you my friend who has missed the big picture.
you dont understand that things can evolve along the
same lines throughout time, as there may have been 18 lohan
being practiced, there were other martial arts
in other parts of the world being developed and
transmitted as well.
another show of ignorance... bravo sifu, bravo.
i wish i was near your school... i would love to stop
in and see you move. or when someone comes in that
appears knowledgable, do you not show for fear of
losing a family secret? i dunno, just asking.
lotsa schools are like that. have a nice day!

06-20-2001, 05:21 PM
I cannot belive what I am reading! with such ignorant staments I feel like I am talking to a child! I am not even going to bother to answer your stupid comments for I am not such a person to stoop to such an incompent level that you are attempting to shout from. I will however ask you again!!!! what style are you attempting to learn? from who? and how long? you keep avoiding my question due to emmbarassment I guess! and as far as embarrassing my family with my ignorance, you have know idea who I am and who my shifu is so please keep your words to your self for I can Be closer to you than you think! and I will be glad to show you how I move!!!!!!!if you do not answer me for the third time you can argue with yourself becuse eveidently you dont know much about anything P.S you said ask you anything about internal... explain what jin, jumbei and shenyi is we will see where your knowledge lies!!!!!!!!!


06-20-2001, 07:00 PM
the way i see it cagey, you are the one with the rambling, meaningless statments. i too would like to know where, how long, and what you have studied.

To know others is to have knowledge. To know oneself is to be enlightened.

06-20-2001, 07:41 PM
cagey....i also don't understand why you would tell someone to quit a style or system completely if it is lacking something and start another that has what the other one was lacking. so if the new system is lacking something...should you give up on that system too? what about the principle of yin/yang...blending to achieve harmony?

To know others is to have knowledge. To know oneself is to be enlightened.

06-20-2001, 07:41 PM
ok look, i appreciate what you are trying to do here.
do this, look at my posts on this board, then look
at yours, then look at mine again.
email me privately and we can ***** about this all
you want, and i will completely school you in whatever subject
you want.

i am not 'attempting' to learn any style. i -am- learning
a style. it matters not what the style is, i dont
have to go anywhere else for training. heck the only reason
i come here is to watch the unfortunates flail
around futilely, and sometimes offer a helping hand.
in your case, you have bit the hand that has offered
to help... your myopia (another dictionary word)
has prevented you from seeing the big picture.
and you ask me about jin, jumbei, and shenyi...
in TCM the pronunciations and spellings are different
from your own misrepresentations. lets get on the
same sheet of music first before i take you to school.
i await for your knock on my door ;)
once again, go back and look all my posts, then look
at yours.. then look at mine again. see how different
we are? see how your posts have changed over the
short amount of time you started here? look at your first
post, and look at mine. look at how much NON-information comes
from your posts, and how much information comes
from mine, and then say i am ignorant.
and by the way, i dont think one 'practices' iron body or iron palm.
you either train to obtain it, once having it then
strengthening it, or being happy with it after
obtaining it. minor semantics, i know. i nitpick a little.
but its another example of your own myopic view.
if you want a private email address i would be
happy to oblige.... i may ask you to invest in a
spell checker or some type of format helper, as
sometimes its really hard to digest your style of

one thing is like another... as an internet guy, i cringe
when i see your posts. as a martial artist, i cringe
when i read the subject matter of your posts.
its pretty plain to me, my friend. you are hopelessly
lost in a sea of mediocrity.
good luck! you are gonna need it! i wonder if your
personal life is as mediocre as everything else you
have presented to us in these forums.

06-20-2001, 07:57 PM
geez baldmantis, thats a silly statement.
did your sifu teach you that? more evidence to get
tossed on the 'mediocre' pile, proving that once
again, being less than average is OK by you.
you are sadly mistaken if you believe yin/yang means
to blend to achieve harmony....
i am shaking my head in disbelief, dude. completely
blown away.
i am casting my pearls before swine here. and thats
a waste of time, because you dont understand, dont
WANT to understand, and i am past thinking that you
can pull yourselves up from the muck and mire. cripes, i had a MUCH more
enriching experience with the Chung Moo Doe adherents.
and THATS saying something, for those that know.

good luck, because without me, it appears as if
you would be TOTALLY lost. you need someone to
wake you up and challenge your conceptions of
what the martial arts are all about.

haha!! :D

blending to achieve harmony...
thats rich, dude....
i am -SO- TOTALLY gonna print this out and save it.
so i guess we can all interpret the fundamental
tenet of TCM and taoist precepts to be whatever we want.
hmmm so now i can believe that yin/yang is a noodle dish
served with bits of shrimp and a side dish of humble pie...
want some? you sure deserve it!

[This message was edited by cagey_vet on 06-21-01 at 11:05 AM.]

06-20-2001, 10:07 PM
well cagey...i really would like to continue this conversation "privately" as you requested but i don't even see an email address to send messages to you. i am truly sorry your mind is clouded by ignorance.

To know others is to have knowledge. To know oneself is to be enlightened.

06-20-2001, 10:10 PM
Your endless excuses not to answer me shows you are nothing more than a guy who has taken some lesson at the Y.M.c.A and sits in fron of his computer with his brand new dictionary he bought to sound educated to people who you attempt to put down! please spare us the notion of you just comming on here to help people answer questions for you dont know the answers to your own training! internal my ass even a first level student practicing internal know the answers to my quesitions so pppppplease do not attempt to use spelling or translation for an excuse for your lack of knowldge!that is the chinese pronuciation taken from wade-giles DICTIONARY


06-20-2001, 10:10 PM
and as far as what the martial arts are about....I doubt you have the faintest idea.

To know others is to have knowledge. To know oneself is to be enlightened.

06-20-2001, 10:16 PM
what possible excuse are you going to use now that I have called your bluff! this forum is for decent people with a love for the martial arts to come and ask questions and to post their thoughts and so on. Please do not try to currupt its balance with ignorance! if your life is that empty than I suggest you take up a hobby but please not martial arts we have all the holes we want no rome for asses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


06-20-2001, 10:27 PM
please do not take my somewhat angry posts to unmetionable people the wrong way, but as a fellow martial artist I'm sure you agree their is no room for people who think that way in the martial arts! It reminds me of a bully student that once came to my school to learn to fight!! after several years I told him now that you know how to fight who are you going to challenge? his reply was "myself"...... for my thinking was only thing I was ever mad at! Any one with fists can learn how to fight if this is the level in which you choose that is all you will ever get! but please do not call your self a martial artist!


06-21-2001, 07:47 PM
i recommended for you to read all my posts
to this website.
you didnt.
otherwise, you wouldnt have said the things you
said. i speak from experience and knowledge, and my posts show it.
my email address is cactusjack@hushmail.com.

my teacher is one of the most respected authorities
in the US, if not the world, of the internal martial arts.
see where i am from, and do your own homework.
i do not speak for him, and he knows that i am
rather freewheeling with my opinions... "very yang..." i hear him say ;)
there are a few reasons for this, one you may be able
to guess from the subject matter of the majority
of my posts. if you cant, then you are even less clued in then i originally thought.
again, grow up a little, consult a dictionary and
a GOOD spell checker, and i will be awaiting
correspondence with you at my email address listed
above. if i loaned you a quarter, i wonder if you
would buy a cup of coffee instead of a clue...
the both of ya should be embarassed.
still waiting for you, any of you, to justify
getting training outside your school. it seems as
if your contemporary mantis system is a little lacking.
do both of you guys go to the same school?
the stances on your site look spiffy, can you really
generate power from them? a 34 year old sifu that
spells like you do? that mangles english like you do?
that trips over malaprops consistently like you do.
i feel sorry for your students (clients). i feel that
if you are training them in the same manner i see
you post here, they are getting ripped off!
where are you guys!? i have GOT to see this for
this is not a shoot on all mantis systems.. i know
for a fact that there are some VERY VERY deadly mantis guys
out there, and to them i tip my hat, because its
awesome to watch a true mantis player just go off.
i wonder if the true mantis folks feel the same way
i do about your types, or do they just shrug their
shoulders and say "hey, they are no threat to my training, there will
always be substandard martial artists..."
thats what i should do, except for some reason i feel the need
to try to put across some sensibility to you.
you guys are funny.
as in 'haha' funny.
although it gets harder to laugh the more i read
from you, and easier to feel sorry, i cant look away.
dude, its like a ugly car accident.

06-21-2001, 08:40 PM
Well this is the last post you will receive from me becuase you have again FAILED TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS!so if you say that your teacher is the best in the world why must you avoid telling us who he is, or where you train, or how long! Im not doubting what you say about your teacher for I dont know who he is however if you are in fact calling your self a martial artist, then I suggest you put down your dictionary and act like one. other wise you should ask for a refund for you have learned nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!


06-21-2001, 08:46 PM
I decline to correspond via email because some other people on this site have told my you send viruses through email "very cute"! but if thats what kinda sick person you are you can keep your********** to your self!


06-21-2001, 11:28 PM
i challenge you to find anyone i have ever sent an
email virus to. unbelievable.
so, there you go again.
spouting off crap that other people tell you.
cant you think for yourself?
typical mcdojo/cult attitude.

can i have that quarter back that i loaned you?
it seems as if you havent bought a clue with it.

i am proud of my school, and my teacher.
but the fact that you have dragged me into your
lame argument may not exactly fit well with him.
so you dont know who he is. you didnt bother to research
even for 5 minutes.

another pearl cast before the swine.
good luck dude! you are getting worked bigtime.
i have a bridge to sell you, it sits right over some
groovy swampland next to a nuclear facility.

06-22-2001, 04:24 PM
I would not be proud if one of my students was ashamed to admit where he learned as you have done for the 4th time!!!!!!!! so obviously what you say OR what you attempt to preach is not even worth the 2 cents that you invested in your lessons at the YMCA! GOOD BY


06-24-2001, 07:21 PM
my diatribe against you and your ilk would most likely
make my teacher look bad by others that think the way you do.
unfortunately, the bulk of martial artists in this
country DO think the way you do, and basically determine
the status quo of the rest of us. i wouldnt want YOUR backlash
directed against my teacher.
you have shown that you are ignorant of many precepts
of TCMA, and philosophy... so why should i burden
my own family with your ignorance and make an innocent
man subject to your judgements and skewed observations?
good luck, and thanks for making the rest of us look
like total morons...
i wonder who told you to stop posting in all CAPS...
your posts here are goofy. is your kung fu the same?
i really shouldnt make a statement like that without
seeing you move though. put a video file of you on your site and
email me when its there so i can see for myself. then i would
feel better about rationing portions of reality in your direction.
good luck dude... or do you need me to show you how to
do that as well?!

06-25-2001, 12:25 PM
I have read a very good book on Iron Palm by Brain Grey which could be of some intrest.

06-27-2001, 12:43 AM
i train in nothnig that has to do with mantis but i do iron palm and body... well started :D in Bak fu pai we do iron palm after getting a good base on the basic techniques. In wushu we started iron body like first class :eek: i love it. Yannick benoit is a really good teacher and teaches traditional wushu and san shou. i say anyone in montreal or close should go visit his place on st cathrin street :D

*Qui semme le vent, recolte la tempete!*