View Full Version : What is the major difference between Tai Chi Mantis and Seven star mantis?

09-27-2000, 10:45 PM
Same as topic.

cha kuen
09-28-2000, 05:50 AM
Both 7 star mantis and tai mantis have the same concepts. Tai Mantis has a lot more hopping where as 7 star would do crushing steps.


7 star mantis " Bong Bo"

3rd move : Crushing step with palm strike

Tai Mantis " Bong Bo"

3rd move: Hopping step with palm strike.

Also in 7 star mantis all the hand forms are
"connected" in the sense that they have a 2 man version of the form to compliment it. Tai Mantis hand forms are not so "connected" and are more broken.

Hope this helps.

09-30-2000, 02:49 AM
Another difference between Tai Chi Mantis
and ( HK ) 7 Star Mantis is that
Tai Chi Mantis is played a little softer
and with a greater stress of utilizing
speed. Also some of the (fighting) principles
of Tai Chi Mantis is a little different
from that of 7 Star Mantis.

Yes both styles share a lot of similiar hand
techniques, however some other techniques
are played differently from one system
as compared to the other. Then there are
some Tai Chi Mantis techniques that are
not found in 7 Star and vice-a-versa.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

shaolin mantis
10-12-2000, 06:26 AM
The main difference between the 2 mantis systems
is that Taichi Mantis has more sophisicated hand
techniques. In the forms, 1 step in Taichi Mantis
is usually follow by several hand movements while
7 Star Mantis, its 1 step, 1 hand movement. Also
the techniques are perfomed at a closer range with
the Taichi Mantis system than with 7 Star.

10-13-2000, 02:14 AM
hmmm, and now it would seem that there are two of us...

cha kuen
10-14-2000, 10:43 PM
The movements in tai mantis are not " more sophisticated" than 7 star. I think what shaolin mantis is talking about though. In tai mantis forms you will see 2-3 moves done in one stance. 7 star mantis may only do one move per stance. Tai mantis uses a lot of knees and elblows also, more than any style that I have seen. I see no differences in the fighting range between the two styles. 7 star mantis is done at very close range as well. Just my thoughts.

Shaolin mantis (new member) where do you train tai mantis at? Do you train with William Fong?

10-15-2000, 04:46 AM
What Shaolin Mantis is really talking about is the complexity of applications of Tai Mantis over 7-star mantis. Tai Mantis applications are multi level and the killing applications are at a higher level. Shaolin Mantis has the ability to see these higher level applications because of his extentive experiences in martial arts. I know first hand since he was my equal classmate in Northern Shaolin and I was present when Tai Mantis applications were personally shown to us by one of the well known Tai Mantis masters. Since we both knew a few 7 star sets, we could compare the difference in both mantis styles.

cha kuen
10-15-2000, 05:10 AM
Northern Shaolin

Hi to " another" new member. Who do you or your friend train tai mantis with? The only qualified sifus that I know of in san franciso is William Fong and Ngo si bak. If would be nice to know what lineage you are from. As for mantis, I know about five 7 star forms and five tai mantis forms. Every application you see in tai mantis is in 7 star and vice versa. They are just done in a different manner. I am not biased toward 7 star mantis by any means. I am givign an honest opinion. Northern Shaolin, could you give me an example of a hand form in tai mantis and an application? Perhaps that would take this discussion somewhere.

shaolin mantis
10-15-2000, 07:29 AM
In Bong Bo, both 7 star and taichi mantis has the
movement where you poke 2 fingers to the eye. The
7 star movement from a longer distance because there is a kick with the poke. The Taichi mantis
consist of a both hand chock break before the 3
pokes to the eye which is done at a closer range.

cha kuen
10-15-2000, 09:27 AM
Why are the tai mantis bong bo eye strikes done at closer range? Is it because you just broke or pulled the guys arm first before the 3 strikes? Good point but..

In 7 star bong bo there is a left mantis grab while kicking to the groin and poking the eyes all at the same time. You can see that the eye poke can also be close range because of the left mantis grab. All of those 3 moves are done together.

Here, I'll bring up an interesting discussion. If you think tai mantis is more sophisticated then why aren't the tai mantis forms "connected" like they are in 7 star? Tai mantis forms are more broken. They have a maybe 3-4 movements that connect and then they break off again.

Keep in mind that this is for pure discussion. I'd like to see your views on it. I am not flaming you by any means. What other forms do you know from tai mantis? Perhaps some more advanced forms would create a better discussion. I am from tai mantis as well. I am open minded so I'd like to see your view. =)


10-16-2000, 06:04 AM
how many successive techniques would be applied in a situation before it required a change in strategy? perhaps 2 to 3

cha kuen
10-16-2000, 08:55 AM
Initiate, shaolin mantis, northern shaolin,

(same person)

This discussion is going no where. Do you know any other hand forms besides bong bo?

10-16-2000, 10:21 PM
HI Iam new to this .My only studies have been tcpm. I am familiar with bung bo, ba di ma bo, kung li chuan, dan jop mei hwa, seun bachow and ha ba chow, lo hap cheung, non jeet and jet kun, fi jit ewe,and weapon and two man sets.Everything has been in an oral tradition from a sifu who doesn't speak much english. So my ability to explain it technically is limited, but I will do the best I can Thank you.

10-17-2000, 04:25 AM
Hi all,

Nice going.

Just wanted to extend a warm welcome to a new member and a fellow TCPM practitioner. From the listed froms, I would think that you are of one of Sigung's Vietnam students' lineage. Would you be of the late Sifu David Cheng lineage? I am from HK and Galen Fok is my mentor (Sifu). Nice to have more TCPM brothers on board.


Contraria Sunt Complementa

cha kuen
10-17-2000, 04:46 AM

How do you start your version of dan jop mei hwa? Some people start with a double upper block and pull down. Others start with a double palm strike (looks like a prayer)

Also in 2 man bong bo, is your form totally connected? Or does it have parts where you push the guy off and he comes attacking again?

Good to see that you train traditional tai mantis. You know many of the good sets.

shaolin mantis
10-17-2000, 05:25 AM
cha kuen,
The reason Taichi Mantis Forms are so choppy is
because it only takes 2 to 3 moves to execute and
finish off a technique. The form is performed more
like the actual application. This can be seen by
comparing both the 7 star and taichi mantis 2 man
Bong Bo forms. In the 7 star 2 man bong bo form,
1 side is performed exactly like the single person
Bong Bo while the opponent makes the moves to fit
the single person side. In the Taichi mantis 2 man Bong Bo even the side performing the single person set has to be modified, so it looks different even though the basic form is still there. This is what I mean by more practical, there is no compromise in effectiveness in performing the techniques.

10-17-2000, 05:36 AM
thank you both for the warm welcome. We are all very fortunate to be able to study this system.Mantis 108 I am of sifu Yen Hoa Ly's lineage. He is one of the chosen 12 and a very humble and highly skilled sifu. Cha kuen , it looks like a prayer hand but functionally it is a double hand block that slips down both of the opponents arms to the wrists in a pull down onto the right knee. I hope that makes sense. Again thank you both. Initiate.

cha kuen
10-17-2000, 05:47 AM
I understand . That is the way I do my form. However, I see the application more than just a block and pull down. The reason the hands are together is because there is a double strike to the temple after you block. From there you can pull down. I say this because some tai mantis schools do nto have the prayer looking hand. They have their hands a few inches apart. The application for that would be a double block and pull down. I see the prayer hand as a double block and strike to the temple.

10-17-2000, 06:30 AM
Iam not familiar with that application. My sifu showed me a few different applications stemming from that move depending on which leg is leading on the opponent. Would you explain it to me in a little more detail so I can visualize it? Thanx Initiate.

10-17-2000, 06:41 AM
I was never shown that application, but it sounds interesting.I was going with the most general appl. I was shown.There were a few different ways to apply the move depending on whether the person was leading with a left or right leg. Thanks initiate.