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YoungForest
11-21-2000, 11:49 PM
This guy named Brian Gray..
How good is he or how well does he know this almost impossible Iron Palm.

Does he have any good evidence or pictures? Videos? Anything?

MaFuYee
11-21-2000, 11:56 PM
if i told you my opinion, would you take my word for it?

check out gene chicoine - he is far more impressive than mr gray.

Gene Chicoine Break (http://www.shuaichiao.com/tmp2.html)

WingLamStudent
11-22-2000, 04:30 AM
What are you looking for with Iron Palm? Training? Instruction?

YoungForest
11-23-2000, 04:51 AM
yea i guess training, instructions....more info on it i guess

WingLamStudent
11-23-2000, 06:10 PM
What I can recommend as far as training and instruction comes form my teacher. I first started with iron palm 20 years ago. It has worked for me. Here is a link to an article printed in the last Wing Lam catalog:

http://www.wle.com/resources/articles/73IronPalm.html

Good Luck,

-Mark

6hmantis
05-14-2001, 02:01 AM
Does anyone train in Iron Palm? If you do, what form of training do you do and who is your Sifu. I train under Sifu John Newberry, Hes a Master of Iron Palm skills under the Iron Palm International Org. He has some cool photos at www.prayingmantiskungfu.com. (http://www.prayingmantiskungfu.com.) He trains useing the bag method and makes his own kickass dit-da-jow.

peehoo
05-17-2001, 07:00 PM
We do basic iron palm in class.
we work on palms backs of hands against backs of hands
A drill that works on forearms and lower legs(its a drill done in pairs)

I realised that class work isnt enough on its own so i asked my sifu about training at home and he's going to set up a private home lesson for me to learn bag methods (build up to mungbean filled bags). Hes keen to teach because it does take time to develope iron palm and he says people tend to over train it to compensate for starting it late in their training (eg 500 strikes palm/backhand/knifehand)which does more bad than good. He reckons on about a year to notice a great difference. i ve used da jit dow in class and was a bit sceptical,( i'm from a biology background),but it does seem to prevent bruising and has got some anesethetic properties.

I cant get your link to work and i'm keen to find out more on iron palm.
Any suggestions greatfully accepted :)

do without doing

6hmantis
05-18-2001, 04:27 AM
lets try this www.prayingmantiskungfu.com (http://www.prayingmantiskungfu.com) see if this works. Let me know, Have a good one

peehoo
05-18-2001, 08:18 PM
yes it works lots of stuff that looks interesting
contact spear fighting, i assume you ban all head strikes in that one

do without doing

Sil Lum Palm
05-23-2001, 03:23 PM
I am not training in the Iron Palm as of yet , it's kept pretty secretive at our school. I am not shure but I believe it is taught as you make your move from Assisstant Instructor to Instructor. There are two types of typical Iron Palm Skills, those are internal and external , the external takes a shorter time to acheive, however it has no healing possibilities like the internal method offers.
E-Mail me at tenguangelhunter@aol.com and I will be very happy to give you the link to our school , however I don't wish to post it for the many without permission from my Sifu.

ElPietro
07-29-2001, 05:25 PM
I performed a search and got a lot of hits on Iron Palm. Most of these threads where in the internal MA section though, and didn't really go over the basics. I have read a bit on Iron Palm training, basically, I'll outline what I have read and what I think and hopefully those of more experience can add or correct me.

What I have read is that Iron Palm training is recommended to pretty much anyone in training above the age of about 10 years old. It is designed to turn your hands into weapons, ie. stronger, more solid hands which are more damaging. You start out with a beginner bag containing beans, until they are crushed powder (3-6 months), then move on to an intermediate bag. Then obviously to an advanced bag and after a couple years of training every day, you only need to train a couple times a week to maintain your hand strength.

I also read that after each session you rub your hands for about 5 minutes using a mixture of dit dot jow which reduces bruising and helps tighten the skin.

The training itself is done from horse, and left and right bow stance, change stances as needed. The strikes are: palm strike, then backhand strike, followed by a chop or knife hand, then a tiger claw (some kind of claw, may have misread). The strikes are performed in that order for about 5-10 minutes the first little while then you keep going until you can continue for approximately 45 minutes to an hour and switch bags once the beans are dust.

It is discussed as an external and internal form of training. The article didn't say that only advanced students should train in iron palm, so I wonder if you can train almost exclusively external or what. If any of you could correct where I'm mistaken or add some info that would be great. Thanks.

WongFeHung
07-29-2001, 07:48 PM
there is alot more to it than that. Applying the Tiet Da Jow alone requires specific technique, not simply rubbing it in like cologne. You are not just "hardening" your hand, but also learning to develop more power in your strikes, and the hand is getting strengthened accordingly. There are advanced striking methods which cannot be taught from a book or a website. Improper practice can permantently injure your hands and health. I personally dissagree with teaching a ten year old. We won't teach anyone under the age of 25, hand conditionoing due to the fact that the bones aren't fully developed, and calcification between the phalanges of the joints can occur causing arthritis. Find a qualified Sifu.

templefist
07-29-2001, 09:50 PM
you can also use pots of loose material instead of the bags. it puts your hands in more contact with the mung beans/gravel/iron. its a real pain in the @ss since the mung beans fly just about everywhere.

shaolin_knight
07-30-2001, 03:14 AM
Don't get caught up in external/internal. Also don't train with the little information you have. You really need a teacher on this one. Practice something else like working on your stances.

ElPietro
07-30-2001, 05:03 PM
Thanks for the responses...I asked my instructor about Iron Palm and he just grinned and said, "all in good time..."

So I guess I'll learn it eventually.

Le nOObi
06-09-2002, 12:30 PM
Is there some kind of generic ointment i can use while developing iron palm? by generic i mean something i can buy without looking hard. There is a large china town in my area.

MaFuYee
06-10-2002, 08:58 AM
go to a teacher who practices iron palm, and ask if you can buy some of his jow.

i have tried several different recipes from various teachers, and have settled on one from a wu mui sifu and herbalist.

i like it because it was the least sticky of the bunch, and it smelled the least offensive.

there were others that may be a little better, but they were more expensive, and/or really stunk. (odor.)

Feng Huang
06-10-2002, 02:14 PM
You should never train anything like that without dit da jow. as a general rule, you should put rub it in whenever you do any kind of striking. (i.e. punching the bag, rub into knuckles). this will help to prevent damage and strengthen the bones and tendons. also, if you sifu has told you to train iron palm, he or she should have already spoken to you about how to take care of your hands. anyway, you can find a good one from a local chinese martial arts club. there are different kinds. the one my sifu makes absorbs quickly, doesn't have an overpower smell (relatively), and works really really well.

roughnready
06-12-2002, 03:27 AM
why is it that the karatekas can work their iron hand techniques without dit da jow and not suffer any adverse effects?

Dale Dugas
06-12-2002, 04:39 AM
Roughnready,

Look at many karate teachers and you rarely see people in their 70's, 80's or 90's compared to the Chinese martial arts. The beating of your hands without using any medicine is something you do at a great risk to your health. There are many acupuncture meridians which run through your hand. The knuckles used in karate(the first two on the hands) also have the large intestine and heart meridians occupying the same territory.

Many karate people die of degenerative heart problems among other problems. I wonder why when they are beating their hands against hard objects and neither doing the internal exercises to increases energy flow to the hands and using the medicine which is the key to help eliminate the blood clots which can form and then break off and go to your heart,lungs, brain and kill you.

Also no karate master I have ever seen on this continent or in Japan had the power capabilities of some of the Kung fu masters I have witnessed demonstrate.

A good jow used for Iron Palm has more resins in it and will always be more sticky than one used for injuries. Unfortunately for all us students, no odor usually means no power. The best jow I have used made my friends gag, you get used to it as your olefactory senses kick in after the first two times you use it.

You need to get the medicine from your Sifu or from someone who knows Iron Palm training. Do not use any old jow as they are designed for different purposes.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

THREE EYED LAU
02-05-2003, 03:59 PM
does anyone here train iron palm if so what conditioning and training is needed to produce a decent iron palm??

Lowlynobody
02-05-2003, 06:19 PM
Keep your training regular and use dit da jow. As always get your instruction from someone who knows what they are doing.

Are you asking what sort of materials that can be used to strike?
The iron palm I do has 3 levels. The first level has 4 stages - rice, chick peas, rock, and steel balls.

Starchaser107
04-10-2004, 10:50 PM
Why is it that there is no Iron Palm division in CMA tournaments, at least the ones that I've seen?

You know like how JMA have brick breaking or ice or what have you.

CaptinPickAxe
04-10-2004, 11:16 PM
I saw a tournament on TV with a "Tai Chi master" in it. I put in quotation marks cause I don't know his creditials and he was in a brick breaking compition. Anyhow, He put his index finger through a coke can, and broke some bricks. I'm assuming he does Iron Palm.

Starchaser107
04-10-2004, 11:49 PM
hey cap
thats cool and all well and good and stuff,
but i've seen lots of stuff on t.v.,
have you ever entered a CMA tournament and seen a division for this though?

CaptinPickAxe
04-11-2004, 12:04 AM
negative

Popeye's dad
04-11-2004, 02:07 AM
In China there are lots of qi demonstration competitions. The US only cares about kickboxing and wrestling

IronFist
04-11-2004, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Popeye's dad
In China there are lots of qi demonstration competitions. The US only cares about kickboxing and wrestling

Really? What do they do there?

Welcome to the forum btw.

MasterKiller
04-12-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Starchaser107
Why is it that there is no Iron Palm division in CMA tournaments, at least the ones that I've seen?

You know like how JMA have brick breaking or ice or what have you. Because CMA tournaments try to maintain a level of dignity.

What next.....? Musical breaking?;)

norther practitioner
04-12-2004, 01:57 PM
lol

Yall should check this out Extreme Kung Fu (http://store.martialartsmart.net/tc-ca105.html)

It was a qigong tournie..

Some sick stuff
Some cliche` stuff


etc..


Dude does throw a needle through a pain of glass though.


ps

you're welcome gene.

Starchaser107
04-12-2004, 02:15 PM
I was under the impression that np did a little musical breaking himself
as well as popping and locking...

that sounds like good martial arts to me...:p

norther practitioner
04-12-2004, 02:31 PM
dam.n skippy

Funny one was a demo on TV, where it was all theatrical, some slow intro music while the guy got in the zone.. then the beat dropped to this horrible tech house song and he screamed to the beat as he went and broke a bunch of stuff...

He couldn't hold a candle to my poppin' though

norther practitioner
04-12-2004, 03:52 PM
article (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=471)

Starchaser107
04-12-2004, 04:16 PM
wow,
ok just read that article, thanks.
that pretty much answers my question.
especially the closing paragraphs.

blooming lotus
04-12-2004, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by Popeye's dad
In China there are lots of qi demonstration competitions. The US only cares about kickboxing and wrestling

because right to down to chi as intellectually understandable concept, the west in almost entirely in the dark...generally speaking..they don't even know what chi is, let alone how to use it, let alone include it in gen. comps :rolleyes:

sad but true..in the west, if you're talking chi, unless you're a tcm practioner ...bring on the psyche drugs because you're off your head...

I was ooking at some mma/ufc rules a while back, and they restrict certain stike zones, but totally leave open some very serios qi interuption through either air or blood deprivation ( ie: dim mak points) ???? WTF???

welcome to ma in the west

Serpent
04-12-2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by blooming lotus


because right to down to chi as intellectually understandable concept, the west in almost entirely in the dark...generally speaking..they don't even know what chi is, let alone how to use it, let alone include it in gen. comps :rolleyes:

:confused:

Is this your own special version of English? Genius English or something?

Ray Pina
04-13-2004, 07:32 AM
I would love to fight on an island ring.

Water Dragon
04-13-2004, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by blooming lotus



I was ooking at some mma/ufc rules a while back, and they restrict certain stike zones, but totally leave open some very serios qi interuption through either air or blood deprivation ( ie: dim mak points) ???? WTF???


Yup, and no ones died from qi interuption during the past 50 or so years they have been doing Vale Tudo comps.

Merryprankster
04-13-2004, 08:19 AM
that's because you can't accidentally manipulate it, wd, everybody knows that.

norther practitioner
04-13-2004, 08:25 AM
I would love to fight on an island ring.


That is a cool lai tei isn't it...

GeneChing
04-13-2004, 09:44 AM
Thanks norther practitioner for the plugs (but ya missed this one (http://store.martialartsmart.net/tckprat102.html) ;) )

Thanks Serpent for adding another quote of mine to your signature (at least for now).

Actually, there are 'breaking' divisions within open tournaments. These areen't 'iron palm' specifically, but breaking is a big part of karate/tkd, so you do see it more in those circles.

blooming lotus
04-13-2004, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Water Dragon


Yup, and no ones died from qi interuption during the past 50 or so years they have been doing Vale Tudo comps.

mm hmm...because if you had any idea what you were talking about that would really make half an ounce of sense

;) ;) :rolleyes:

PangQuan
09-21-2005, 10:02 AM
Hey, Im just looking for a good link to an iron palm system.

Nothing fancy, just something I can copy paste and print out to give to a friend, for easy reference.

If anyone knows of a good link or two, thanks in advance.

Dale Dugas
09-21-2005, 12:09 PM
Stay away from Jim Lacy or Brian Gray. Neither has anything you want. Try Steve Hamp at http://www.noweightsworkout.com he is going to be releasing his iron palm material in the near future.

Dale Dugas

EarthDragon
09-21-2005, 12:44 PM
dale
you said stay away from Brian Grey?????????????????? why would you say this? h have you ever seen his skill ? I am dear frineds with one of his top students john Newberry one of the U.S's premire iron plam breakers

PangQuan
09-21-2005, 01:21 PM
I have this.


Remember, training is not recommended at all for those under 16 years of age. Those individuals under 18 years of age must get permission from a parent or guardian before starting training. Always consult a physician before beginning any exercise program. Train at your own risk. These training methods only reflect personal experience, and Wesler's Karate, Inc. cannot be held responsible for any injury resulting from attempting to train in these techniques.

The iron palm method is the hand conditioning regimen that I prefer. I enjoy the set schedule for training, the relaxed method, and most of all, the speedy results. I also prefer this method because it trains the palm heart, or the flat of the palm. In my opinion, the flat palm slap is the trademark strike of fighting gung fu. Iron palm is the essence of the gung fu of legend, not the watered down version that so many modern practitioners bring to fights, only to be crushed.

There is no mistaking an iron palm slap for boxing, karate, or mindless street brawling. As for its application in tameshiwari, the iron palm is unrivaled when it comes to breaking solid objects. Though you might be inclined to think otherwise, it is much easier to break a brick with the iron palm than it is with a punch, chop, hammerfist, or palm heel strike. I know this from experience. Iron palm is also noted for its capability of breaking the bottom brick in a stack without spacers. Such a practice is known as selective breaking.

Ku Yu Cheong, one of the most famous masters of iron palm, reportedly could break bricks selectively in a stack. Iron palm falls short only when it comes to breaking flexible objects (wood, baseball bats) and objects with spacers. I explain it to people with this example- the palm slap can move anything it strikes one half an inch. Since cement cannot flex, it breaks. If the object, such as wood, can flex ****her than that, it will not break. This is only an exaggerated example mind you, and only an example of my personal theory at that. As for spacers, the palm has difficulty sending energy through "hollow" area.

There are many variations of the iron palm conditioning process and each usually has a set amount of time for the initial phase. During this first phase, training must be done daily. After that, maintenance training varies. The first phase ranges anywhere from one month to three years or more. There are also advanced levels of the iron palm as well as internal and external conditioning.

The regimen I use is a variation of the traditional 100 day method and combines both internal and external training. This method produced good results for me in minimal time. Many others have also reported favorable results. I will honestly tell you that 100 days is not enough time to produce an invincible palm, but it will create a hand that is dangerous enough for combat, as well as allow you to break red bricks. This regimen conditions the entire hand.

Train at your own risk. I do not recommend training for those under 16 years of age.

Materials Needed:
-10" wide x 24" long (or larger) canvas bag
-approx. 1" round river rocks (enough to fill the bag half way)
-old towel
-cinder blocks (support stand)
-dit da jow


the kid im going to give the info to has mung beans to start, I told him to fashion a bag to hold them, then get some iron palm jow. I could show him the basic strikes ie: palm, backhand, knife, and ridge. tell him an amount of repetitions, but I think he is looking for actual instructions from someone who practices iron hand.

I suggested he get the Wing Lam Tiger Iron Palm masters kit. It looks pretty good to me. I dont know if he has the resources to get that though, so I am looking for actual basic instruction. no purchasing.

mkriii
09-26-2007, 11:40 AM
Can anyone tell me of a good irom palm regimine?

sanjuro_ronin
09-26-2007, 11:47 AM
What's your MA background and how long have you been training?

doug maverick
09-26-2007, 12:10 PM
iron palm training could really ruin your sensitivety in your hands. not good for martial arts. but you can still attain it if say you practice xing yi

sanjuro_ronin
09-26-2007, 12:18 PM
iron palm training could really ruin your sensitivety in your hands. not good for martial arts. but you can still attain it if say you practice xing yi

Been doing it for a bit now and know a few that have done it for years, decades even, and they are fine with sensitivty and range of motion.

Of course there are certain methods of IP that look quite brutal.

Dale Dugas
09-26-2007, 12:25 PM
Can anyone tell me of a good irom palm regimine?

As Sanjuro asked what is your background?

How old are you?

Iron Palm is not to be trained until at least the age of 18-20 as the human body has not finished growing yet and the training could affect the growth of the hand(s).

Why are you asking this question on an open martial arts forum? Does your teacher offer this training program? If not why not?

Feel free to ask questions but we need to know a bit more about you as it pertains to are you going to be able to do the training or not.

Be well, train hard

Dale Dugas
09-26-2007, 12:27 PM
Been doing it for a bit now and know a few that have done it for years, decades even, and they are fine with sensitivty and range of motion.

Of course there are certain methods of IP that look quite brutal.


I have been training my hands for over 15 years. Gene has met me personally at the Zhang San Feng festival and has seen my big ole meatball hands(though he was more interested in my kilt at the time :D:D:eek::eek::D) I have no issues.

Done correctly and with someone who KNOWS what they are doing, you will not have any issues. Train incorrectly and you will damage your nerves and might cause other affects that are not so good on the body.


I teach a method that has worked well for me over the years. If interested you can contact me for more information as well as coming to my seminar in November where I will be teaching both Iron Palm and Iron Vest over an entire weekend. For more info on the sem visit: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/news/index.php?month=11&year=2007

Be well, train hard.

sanjuro_ronin
09-26-2007, 12:34 PM
Dale's stuff is Top Notch and his Jow is superb.

His legs are much admired by scotsmen.

Dale Dugas
09-26-2007, 12:47 PM
Dale's stuff is Top Notch and his Jow is superb.

His legs are much admired by scotsmen.


many thanks brother for the kind words.

The ladies seem to like my well developed calves.....

I think I made Gene jealous and covetous of a set as grand...

sanjuro_ronin
09-26-2007, 12:49 PM
I pity his genetics.
Alas, I too have small calves....:(
No matter what I have done, the copious amounts of weight i have lifted, they refuse to grow.

Dale Dugas
09-26-2007, 01:05 PM
This is from a friend who attended the Zhang Sang Feng. I was cutting and so was my kung fu brother Dr. Yancy Orchard. my friend then photoshopped us together.

Big Bald Bagua Behometh

sanjuro_ronin
09-26-2007, 01:14 PM
This is from a friend who attended the Zhang Sang Feng. I was cutting and so was my kung fu brother Dr. Yancy Orchard. my friend then photoshopped us together.

Big Bald Bagua Behometh

LOL @ the 4B's !!

Know Stile
09-26-2007, 01:47 PM
Has anyone ever used their "Iron Palms" on another person and if so did it cause the internal damage it has been reputed for?

mkriii
09-26-2007, 01:57 PM
Dale, can you tell me what the 8 hand strikes are? I've been hitting a sand bag using a vibrating palm strike. Thats what one of my teachers told me to start with. He was one of Sifu Dufresne's assistant instructors for a while. He told me to concentrate on relaxing the hand and just letting it drop rather than putting power into it. He said for me to build up to that. Is this correct?

Dale Dugas
09-26-2007, 03:56 PM
Dale, can you tell me what the 8 hand strikes are? I've been hitting a sand bag using a vibrating palm strike. Thats what one of my teachers told me to start with. He was one of Sifu Dufresne's assistant instructors for a while. He told me to concentrate on relaxing the hand and just letting it drop rather than putting power into it. He said for me to build up to that. Is this correct?

Sandbags will not develop Iron Palm.

I do not know what the 8 strikes are as my system of Iron Palm only uses 3 and then you learn to throw them from short distance so you could say there are only 6. There are many forms of Iron Palm training but sand is not hard enough to develop the hand to its utmost potential.

It will give conditioning but you must graduate to harder materials and stronger medicines to achieve.

You must learn not to strike the bag but relax and learn to let the power come out naturally over time. hence Iron Palm is not something that is going to be fully understood quickly. It takes a while to teach this to the body.

be well, train hard

ginosifu
09-26-2007, 04:08 PM
Has anyone ever used their "Iron Palms" on another person and if so did it cause the internal damage it has been reputed for?

I have hit people with it (with control) and they have told me that some type of sensation was bouncing around inside their body. Also it feels like a vibrating shock at first, then it travels thru the body and down to the floor. When it hits the ground it comes back up to the point where it started. If there is no place for it to escape (ie.. Lose or joint), it implodes at that spot. I never have hit anyone with enough power to hurt them but, the feeling they urges them to start the iron palm process

ginosifu :p

Mr Punch
09-26-2007, 05:11 PM
many thanks brother for the kind words.

The ladies seem to like my well developed calves.....

I think I made Gene jealous and covetous of a set as grand...Ha, he was just eyeing your kilt up for the ease of the crotch kick calculations! Luckily he gave up, cos the target was too small.

Mr Punch
09-26-2007, 05:15 PM
I have hit people with it (with control) and they have told me that some type of sensation was bouncing around inside their body. Also it feels like a vibrating shock at first, then it travels thru the body and down to the floor. When it hits the ground it comes back up to the point where it started. If there is no place for it to escape (ie.. Lose or joint), it implodes at that spot. I never have hit anyone with enough power to hurt them but, the feeling they urges them to start the iron palm process

ginosifu :pLOL, funny, just like when I hit someone with a good boxing punch: some type of sensation bounces around their body. It feels like a vibrating shock at first but then their body travels through the air and down to the floor. When it hits the ground, they nearly come back up to the place where they started. There's no place for them to escape and they implode on the spot... the really funny thing is: they can't tell me how the **** it felt afterwards! ;) :D

Pk_StyLeZ
09-27-2007, 03:50 PM
why do people say iron palm on youtube but then they cover the area of the break with a towel??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy7IkL44Yrc
like that for example??
i mean you soppose to train your hand so it doesnt hurt??(something like that)
and if you train your hand to not hurt, why do they need a towel?
i see this everywhere....
makes no sense.....

mkriii
10-11-2007, 01:27 PM
Dale D.....the sand bag that I was told to use is only in the begining. As you progress i was told to go from sand to bb's to small gravel to larger gravel.

Dale Dugas
10-11-2007, 05:42 PM
Dale D.....the sand bag that I was told to use is only in the begining. As you progress i was told to go from sand to bb's to small gravel to larger gravel.

Usually you would go from Sand to gravel to metal shot. Metal Shot are harder than gravel and will not break like some gravel can.

Thanks for sharing.

Be well, train hard

Dale

Mortifere
10-16-2007, 07:48 PM
I know there is another thread on this but I wanted a new thread.

I'm wanting to train with iron palm, but in my area there are no instructors that I know of that can teach that. Therefore, I must resort to videos and handbooks. Ive done some research but I figured Id hit some forums to find out from other people like myself.

First off, what are some recommended kits? So far ive been looking at Wing Lam's kit and Richard Meir's kit, both of which are around the 100 dollar area. I couldn't find reviews, testimonials, or any other credibility that will assure safe and authentic training. With something like iron palm, I don't want to risk damaging my hands, so Im doing extensive research to not only get the safest training, but getting my money's worth.

Any suggestions on kits or overall iron palm training is appreciated. Thank you.

NJM
10-16-2007, 08:05 PM
Wing Lam's kit is a good one. I have the gravel and mung bean bags.

Before starting iron palm training, know this:

DO NOT PROGRESS TOO FAST, FOLLOW THE ADVICE OF REPUTABLE PRACTITIONERS.

JUST BECAUSE IT "DOESN'T HURT ENOUGH" doesn't mean that you should TRANSITION TO THE NEXT STAGE.

I hate hearing "Yeah It's been 5 months and I'm gonna go ahead and switch from the mung bean to the rock bag LAWL <3<3!!!"

Mortifere
10-16-2007, 08:28 PM
That's good to hear. Yes, I realize it takes time, and I'd want to take as much time as it takes to be safe. Isn't his like a 100 days minimum program? I know it varies from individual to individual, especially those that use their hands less.

Also, anyone know anything about rebreakable boards? I'd like to get those while training if they are worth it. Of course I'd occasionally test with real pavers and wood boards.

NJM
10-16-2007, 08:31 PM
From what I've heard, the re-breakable boards are very poor. At your local lumber or hardware store you should be able to get wood cheap.


In truth, the amount of time one should spend on the bags does vary. This is the standard as I recall it:

Mung beans: 6 months-year
Rock/Gravel: 1-2 years
Steel Shot: The rest of your active life.

I've been practicing iron palm for about 4 years, but I still use the Gravel Bag because I've had many breaks in my IP training.

Mortifere
10-16-2007, 08:57 PM
Around what point can you effectively break wooden boards? And at which, concrete slabs?

NJM
10-16-2007, 09:20 PM
I'm not sure. My Sifu never mentioned it, and I never considered it relevant.

Dale Dugas
10-17-2007, 01:54 AM
I know there is another thread on this but I wanted a new thread.

I'm wanting to train with iron palm, but in my area there are no instructors that I know of that can teach that. Therefore, I must resort to videos and handbooks. Ive done some research but I figured Id hit some forums to find out from other people like myself.

First off, what are some recommended kits? So far ive been looking at Wing Lam's kit and Richard Meir's kit, both of which are around the 100 dollar area. I couldn't find reviews, testimonials, or any other credibility that will assure safe and authentic training. With something like iron palm, I don't want to risk damaging my hands, so Im doing extensive research to not only get the safest training, but getting my money's worth.

Any suggestions on kits or overall iron palm training is appreciated. Thank you.

You can always come up to NJ in November and learn in person Iron Palm and Iron Vest along with alot of other useful material.

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/news/index.php?month=11&year=2007

Be well, train hard

Mortifere
10-17-2007, 05:30 AM
If I had the expenses and enough leave in the military I would. ;)

Mortifere
10-17-2007, 05:47 AM
What's the difference between Iron Palm and Tiger Iron Palm?

Also, if I bought wood from a lumber store, what kind should I get. And what dimensions?

Mortifere
10-17-2007, 02:23 PM
I've recently came across Grandmaster Alexander Tao's Iron body / Iron Palm master kit on MartialArtsMart. Anyone know if this is a good kit?

NJM
10-17-2007, 02:28 PM
All you need in a "kit" is a steady supply of jow and a bag(s). Anything else is excess baggage.

Mortifere
10-17-2007, 03:42 PM
Well I want quality training. I don't want to use a training routine that's going to mess up my hands.

NJM
10-17-2007, 04:27 PM
Oh.

Well, you don't really have to pay for the routine, you can find that online for free.

Dale Dugas
10-17-2007, 04:45 PM
As stated for the hundreth time. Do Not Attempt Any Form Of Iron Palm Training Without a TEACHER.

you will hurt yourself and cause damage.

It is not something you can learn from a book or a video.

There are many things involved and you need to learn it from another human who knows what they are doing.

If you train correctly then you can break with little or no effort as you are using your whole body to hit through the palm not just the hand or arm itself.

For example visit my youtube page that has a few breaking vids on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOhlxabuf-I

Be well, train hard

Mortifere
10-17-2007, 07:25 PM
Well, in my situation I don't have the luxury of a nearby instructor that can show me these things. Luckily for me, Im very good at training myself and figuring things out, so long as I have guidelines. That's why I want a video. Trust me, if there were an instructor I could use, I wouldn't be wasting my time trying to figure it out for myself.

Mortifere
10-17-2007, 07:25 PM
Nice video though, those are the results I like to see :D

Pk_StyLeZ
10-17-2007, 09:14 PM
As stated for the hundreth time. Do Not Attempt Any Form Of Iron Palm Training Without a TEACHER.

you will hurt yourself and cause damage.

It is not something you can learn from a book or a video.

There are many things involved and you need to learn it from another human who knows what they are doing.

If you train correctly then you can break with little or no effort as you are using your whole body to hit through the palm not just the hand or arm itself.

For example visit my youtube page that has a few breaking vids on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOhlxabuf-I

Be well, train hard


if it iron palm...then why is there a piece of cloth over the concrete...i never understood that....
if you train your hand so it doesnt hurt...there is no need for a towel to abosrb the impact on the hand.....

Kemo Martin
11-03-2007, 06:04 PM
here is an Iron Palm Coach in Houston, great herbs!!!
Iron Palm (http://www.chuskungfuschool.com/ironpalm.html)

or if you're really serious
Iron Body (http://shaolin-wushu.org/)
Deshan (http://www.houstonshaolintemple.com/)

Dale Dugas
11-03-2007, 06:34 PM
if it iron palm...then why is there a piece of cloth over the concrete...i never understood that....
if you train your hand so it doesnt hurt...there is no need for a towel to abosrb the impact on the hand.....


I have sustained some nasty lacerations due to concrete breaking off and cutting me. I do not want to seriously cut myself again. Hence the little towel. Use your head and do not harm yourself.

be well, train hard

TaichiMantis
11-05-2007, 05:42 AM
Around what point can you effectively break wooden boards? And at which, concrete slabs?


I can break two concrete patio bricks and i have yet to start iron palm training...not sure what you want to accomplish:confused:

Drake
11-05-2007, 05:48 AM
Mortifere, need I remind you that if you break your hand trying to learn Iron Palm the wrong way, you could be up for an Article 15? Goes along the same line as getting a sunburn.

Just some advice from your friendly neighborhood SSG.

PlumDragon
11-05-2007, 07:21 AM
Mortifere,

You wouldnt happen to be at Ft Gordon, would you?
Im not sure where you are but there is a fairly extensive selection of good martial arts in Atlanta and surrounding areas (although if youre at Ft Gordon you may be out of luck); you can practically take your pick of styles, gyms, etc; most of which will offer iron palm or similar regimen at some point in the training program. If you let us know where you are exactly, it may be easier to determine your best action.



Mortifere, need I remind you that if you break your hand trying to learn Iron Palm the wrong way, you could be up for an Article 15? Goes along the same line as getting a sunburn. Maybe the miltary has changed lots since I got out (whoa, 4 years ago now!), but Article 15 isnt usually given out for first offense unless the circumstances are serious (sunburn and accidental injury not among them). Please dont misunderstand, Im with everyone else here, training should not be undertaken lightly, but I dont believe that "motivation" a la military display of power is terribly constructive...

Drake
11-05-2007, 07:24 AM
Yeah...our unit made a big stink downrange about a guy who wasn't careful and accidentally drilled his hand. He wasn't given an AR 15 in the end, but they certainly had him believing he was in some serious trouble. Some units will do that, though. It varies from place to place, unit to unit.

PlumDragon
11-05-2007, 07:33 AM
He wasn't given an AR 15 in the end, but they certainly had him believing he was in some serious trouble.Hah, that sounds familiar!! =)

Drake
11-05-2007, 07:36 AM
Hah, that sounds familiar!! =)

Anticipation of UCMJ is worse than UCMJ itself.


Woohoo! I paraphrased a Steven Seagal movie here!

Dale Dugas
11-05-2007, 09:08 AM
I can break two concrete patio bricks and i have yet to start iron palm training...not sure what you want to accomplish:confused:

Unless you post videos of you breaking, it never happened.

I also would like to see what you are breaking as well as your structure.

No jumping up and coming down on the bricks, no excessive body drop, no palm heeling through it. Those are external breaks.



be well, train hard

TaichiMantis
11-05-2007, 09:24 AM
Unless you post videos of you breaking, it never happened.

I also would like to see what you are breaking as well as your structure.

No jumping up and coming down on the bricks, no excessive body drop, no palm heeling through it. Those are external breaks.



be well, train hard

As I said, I haven't trained iron palm yet. However, it is indeed possible to brake patio bricks with proper palm placement and dropping your weight.

Dale Dugas
11-05-2007, 09:30 AM
Yes, you can break things buts its physical and not internal.

After you have been training for a few years and learn to relax and move more energy through your structure you are going to be able to hit harder with much less movement.

Again, talking about things is great but without video it never happened.

tattooedmonk
11-05-2007, 11:18 AM
if it iron palm...then why is there a piece of cloth over the concrete...i never understood that....
if you train your hand so it doesnt hurt...there is no need for a towel to abosrb the impact on the hand.....more times than not it is so any small pieces of the slab do not fly and hit you in the eye.

tattooedmonk
11-05-2007, 11:25 AM
Do not attempt it without a qualified instructor. Books and videos are great for studying up on the arts but do not replace a qualified instructor. Mantak Chia has some great books on the subject.

Kemo Martin
11-06-2007, 06:22 AM
Yes, you can break things buts its physical and not internal.


Internal......
Iron Palm is Internal.........NOT!
and you ( Dale Dugas) break without any physical....aaaahahahahahahahahaaha

total BS

Royal Dragon
11-06-2007, 07:01 AM
Dale is right, Chinses Iron Palm is internal. There are also external variations, but over all correct training in Iron Palm is an internal endeavorer.

He has even verbally explained the differences.

Kemo Martin
11-06-2007, 08:16 AM
BS
I say if its internal.......
then just set your hand down on the brick
then without moving break the brick.

that would be internal in my opinion
:)

sanjuro_ronin
11-06-2007, 08:43 AM
BS
I say if its internal.......
then just set your hand down on the brick
then without moving break the brick.

that would be internal in my opinion
:)

YOUR opinion sounds about right, YOUR opinion on what constitutes internal and what consititutes internal IP are just that, YOUR opinions and you are ?
Dale posts his name and videos for all to see.

Kemo Martin
11-06-2007, 08:58 AM
well, YOU just go ahead and believe Dale then.
I'm trying to help stop wushu ignorance.

for me all that talk of super internal strength is just a bunch of K.R.A.P.

Stupid Secret Masters BS:eek:

sanjuro_ronin
11-06-2007, 09:43 AM
well, YOU just go ahead and believe Dale then.
I'm trying to help stop wushu ignorance.

for me all that talk of super internal strength is just a bunch of K.R.A.P.

Stupid Secret Masters BS:eek:

You really need to speak to Dale to see what HE views as "internal", the only person spewing "super internal" stuff is you.

Kemo Martin
11-06-2007, 10:35 AM
move more energy through your structure?:eek:
sounds mysterious doesn't it:p



Yes, you can break things buts its physical and not internal.

After you have been training for a few years and learn to relax and move more energy through your structure you are going to be able to hit harder with much less movement.

Again, talking about things is great but without video it never happened.
he was talking about this reply



I can break two concrete patio bricks and i have yet to start iron palm training...not sure what you want to accomplish:confused:




if it iron palm...then why is there a piece of cloth over the concrete...i never understood that....
if you train your hand so it doesnt hurt...there is no need for a towel to abosrb the impact on the hand.....


there is no secret, nothing special

I think the type technique Dale demonstrates is too stationary to be of any effect.

I'd like to see a break while dancing around that would have better energy flow with the rhythm and beat................................ that would be internal:D

sanjuro_ronin
11-06-2007, 10:37 AM
Internal and External is pretty much the difference between a "relaxed" break and a "muscled" break.

Kemo Martin
11-06-2007, 10:50 AM
Internal and External is pretty much the difference between a "relaxed" break and a "muscled" break.


if no muscles (relaxed), then I guess you would need some velocity???

or

again just lay your hand on the brick
meditate and send the internal energy through the body and break the brick!! hahahaha:o

I don't think so!!!!:cool:

sanjuro_ronin
11-06-2007, 10:53 AM
if no muscles (relaxed), then I guess you would need some velocity???

or

again just lay your hand on the brick
meditate and send the internal energy through the body and break the brick!! hahahaha:o

I don't think so!!!!:cool:

That's it?
That's your response?
Unless you are trolling I hope you can do better than that.

You don't see a difference between a "dead weight" drop for example and a drop that is powered down?

If you believe that internal is what you describe then no, there is no such a thing as internal anything.
My question to you is what makes you think that internal is what YOU claim it to be ?

Kemo Martin
11-06-2007, 11:11 AM
I'm saying that Iron Palm is not internal, its not secret.
its just a "Name".
Thats just my opinion.:D

if someone says that they move their internal energy through their body while relaxed and you believe it, thats OK. I don't..:rolleyes:

and for me, what I claim to be internal,....... is internal, ........to me.

sanjuro_ronin
11-06-2007, 11:37 AM
Don't know anything about moving energy through anyone's body, other than a good left hook to the liver :D

To me it's simple really, If I, or anyone for that matter, can do a break, for instance, with minimal effort, that is internal.
If that same break is done with as much effort and force possible, it is external.

On a side note, to me at least, IP has very little to do with breaking at all, and everything to do with "forging", breaking is but a way to "test" your IP if you are NOT into ***** slapping people, which I am into by the way :D

Kemo Martin
11-06-2007, 12:24 PM
D...............

To me it's simple really, If I, or anyone for that matter, can do a break, for instance, with minimal effort, that is internal.
If that same break is done with as much effort and force possible, it is external.................

if it took 100 lbs force to break something
why would it matter if it was minimum or maximum force

it's still 100lbs

Ex::confused:
100lb feathers palm = 100lb iron palm
:rolleyes:

sanjuro_ronin
11-06-2007, 12:36 PM
if it took 100 lbs force to break something
why would it matter if it was minimum or maximum force

it's still 100lbs

Ex::confused:
100lb feathers palm = 100lb iron palm
:rolleyes:

Are you seriously asking a question about Maximum results with minimal effort and wither it matters ???

tattooedmonk
11-06-2007, 12:41 PM
Iron Palm is BOTH internal and external. ALL styles are both to various degrees. ( at least on this plane or in this dimension).

There is nothing that is pure yin or pure yang ( yin yang principle).

It like being compared to an alcoholic beverage, although it is called an alcoholic beverage it is not 100% percent alcohol. There are things in it that are not alcohol, right??

Internal martial arts , as well as external martial arts are the same way.

To say Iron Palm or ANY thing is 100% internal is incorrect.

There are no absolutes on this plane or in this dimension)

Dale Dugas
11-06-2007, 12:42 PM
Little Brother,

He is nothing more than a troll who cannot produce so he criticizes.

He has no skills or he would post videos, rather than make stupid posts.

Let him post.

He is nothing.

sanjuro_ronin
11-06-2007, 12:45 PM
Iron Palm is BOTH internal and external. ALL styles are both to various degrees. ( at least on this plane or in this dimension).

There is nothing that is pure yin or pure yang ( yin yang principle).

It like being compared to an alcoholic beverage, although it is called an alcoholic beverage it is not 100% percent alcohol. There are things in it that are not alcohol, right??

Internal martial arts , as well as external martial arts are the same way.

To say Iron Palm or ANY thing is 100% internal is incorrect.

There are no absolutes on this plane or in this dimension)

No need to say sorry, you are correct, the degree to which one is internal or eternal is what makes methods different.
One would say that typical makiwara training is more external than internal, yes?

Only Kemo is stating absolutes.

Kemo Martin
11-06-2007, 12:49 PM
Don't know anything about moving energy through anyone's body, other than a good left hook to the liver :D

To me it's simple really, If I, or anyone for that matter, can do a break, for instance, with minimal effort, that is internal.
If that same break is done with as much effort and force possible, it is external.

On a side note, to me at least, IP has very little to do with breaking at all, and everything to do with "forging", breaking is but a way to "test" your IP if you are NOT into ***** slapping people, which I am into by the way :D

I was commenting on what you said about minimal effort
and how you say that is the meaning of "internal"

more BS

"forging"?????????:confused:


and are you really into.......... slapping people?
:eek:

more BS:D

sanjuro_ronin
11-06-2007, 12:52 PM
I was commenting on what you said about minimal effort
and how you say that is the meaning of "internal"

more BS

"forging"?????????:confused:


and are you really into.......... slapping people?
:eek:

more BS:D

First off, we are stating opinions.
If there is an OFFICIAL definition of internal, that is news to me.
Confused about forging (conditioning) of hands?? what IP training do you have ?
And as for slapping people being BS, you don't know me :D

Dale Dugas
11-06-2007, 12:54 PM
Found out who Kemo actually is...

tattooedmonk
11-06-2007, 12:55 PM
I'm saying that Iron Palm is not internal, its not secret.
its just a "Name".
Thats just my opinion.:D

if someone says that they move their internal energy through their body while relaxed and you believe it, thats OK. I don't..:rolleyes:

and for me, what I claim to be internal,....... is internal, ........to me. It is in the way it is practiced and used but how it is applied is external, that is what makes it an internal art.

There are other methods that others employ, however they are using more external than internal and relying more on brute strength . This is not the way to have any longevity in doing the practice . Doing it this way will get you hurt and is an improper practice.

It is not a secret and it is just a name.

You can move energy while you are relaxed and while you are tense , they are one and the same.You can not have one with out the other.(yin yang principle)

Internal and external is the way you train . Are you conditioning yourself from the inside out or the outside in?What are the methods , that is how you determine an internal or external art.

That is the difference.

Kemo Martin
11-06-2007, 01:15 PM
more BS

Yoga is Internal :D

Martial Arts is external :mad:

Iron Palm is nothing but external

of course......... thats my opinion:p

Corwyn
11-06-2007, 01:39 PM
kemo,

Welcome to the club.

Remember "HeadOn" apply directly to the forehead.
You'll need lots of it around here for all the wooo.

Kemo Martin
11-06-2007, 01:59 PM
kemo,

Welcome to the club.

Remember "HeadOn" apply directly to the forehead.
You'll need lots of it around here for all the wooo.


:D:D:D:D
wu gong (http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?cdqchi=%E6%AD%A6%E5%8A%9F)

Pk_StyLeZ
11-06-2007, 09:48 PM
is this consider relaxed??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjbeAwk9vyY

NJM
11-06-2007, 10:24 PM
more BS

Yoga is Internal :D

Martial Arts is external :mad:

Iron Palm is nothing but external

of course......... thats my opinion:p

From what expertise do you derive this opinion?

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 04:51 AM
common sense:D

here is some breaking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1ZozmX6Pck

do you think he trains the "Iron Palm"????

sanjuro_ronin
11-07-2007, 05:02 AM
common sense:D

here is some breaking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1ZozmX6Pck

do you think he trains the "Iron Palm"????

Nice, kyokushin guys take no prisoners !
:D

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 05:39 AM
for DaleDugas

Internal Iron Finger training.....

master killer (http://communitiesonline.homestead.com/files/troll_2.jpg)
Certified Troll Instructor
Troll Jiulong Baguazhang
Troll Dit Da Jow Master Brewer
Trolling Dragon Internal Arts
New England Troll Jiulong Baguazhang Wu Guan
Combat Iron Palm Iron Vest Troll Association

sanjuro_ronin
11-07-2007, 05:57 AM
for DaleDugas

Internal Iron Finger training.....

master killer (http://communitiesonline.homestead.com/files/troll_2.jpg)
Certified Troll Instructor
Troll Jiulong Baguazhang
Troll Dit Da Jow Master Brewer
Trolling Dragon Internal Arts
New England Troll Jiulong Baguazhang Wu Guan
Combat Iron Palm Iron Vest Troll Association

Ok, see, know you are coming off as a creepy stalker type troll.
:(

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 06:27 AM
troll
Found out who Kemo actually is...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Troll.jpg (37.3 KB, 19 views)
__________________
Dale Dugas
Certified Instructor
Jiulong Baguazhang
Dit Da Jow Master Brewer

Coiling Dragon Internal Arts
New England Jiulong Baguazhang Wu Guan
Combat Iron Palm Iron Vest Association
PO Box 35
N Quincy, MA
02171-0001
617-595-8097
http://www.coilingdragon.comhttps://coilingdragoninternalarts.com/cart/
http://www.combatironpalm.com
http://www.myspace.com/ne_jiulong_baguazhang




:D
I thought that the "Iron Palm Master"-- Dale would like it!
Since he brought the troll K.R.A.P.

Iron Palm is an external training method.



i

sanjuro_ronin
11-07-2007, 06:47 AM
Iron Palm is an external training method.

What are you trying to say?
SPIT IT OUT MAN !!

golden arhat
11-07-2007, 07:30 AM
whats article 15 ?

Drake
11-07-2007, 07:39 AM
whats article 15 ?


An Article 15 refers to a form of punishment in the military...I'll break it down real quick...

Based on who issues it, you can be on extra duty (working from REAL early until REAL late every day, including weekends) for 7-45 days, 7-45 days of restriction (stuck in the barracks, allowed only to go to the dining facility or place of worship), if you are a Specialist (E-4), you could be reduced to Private, and a Sergeant can be reduced to a Specialist. Finally, a Staff Sergeant can be reduced to Sergeant. They can also take a huge chunk of your pay too.

PlumDragon
11-07-2007, 07:51 AM
The scariest part of Article 15 is perhaps on the administrative side. Generally, there are 3 or 4 types of "punishment" that precede Article 15 territory--its more than the obligatory slap on the wrist. Multiple Article 15s can lead to things like jail time, cuts in pay/grade, and dishonorable discharge.

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 08:01 AM
I know there is another thread on this but I wanted a new thread.

I'm wanting to train with iron palm, but in my area there are no instructors that I know of that can teach that. Therefore, I must resort to videos and handbooks. Ive done some research but I figured Id hit some forums to find out from other people like myself.

First off, what are some recommended kits? So far ive been looking at Wing Lam's kit and Richard Meir's kit, both of which are around the 100 dollar area. I couldn't find reviews, testimonials, or any other credibility that will assure safe and authentic training. With something like iron palm, I don't want to risk damaging my hands, so Im doing extensive research to not only get the safest training, but getting my money's worth.

Any suggestions on kits or overall iron palm training is appreciated. Thank you.


here is what I would suggest:)

There is no secret Iron Palm Training (pg 15 IPTM);)
it's only conditioning
the common herbs can help, but not necessary
don't injure yourself and you can progress:mad:
practice 2x a day you can progress
use any hit or kick

start with
small canvas bag full of beans
when you can hit it with full force 200+ times without tearing the skin you will be ready for next bag

small canvas full of sand
when you can hit it with full force 200+ times without tearing the skin you will be ready for next bag

small canvas bag full of pea gravel
when you can hit it with full force 200+ times without tearing the skin you will be ready for next bag

small canvas bag full of gravel road
when you can hit it with full force 200+ times without tearing the skin you will be ready for next bag

at this level you can start to practice breaking things

do not tear the skin it will slow you.:mad:

:cool:

sanjuro_ronin
11-07-2007, 08:20 AM
here is what I would suggest:)

There is no secret Iron Palm Training (pg 15 IPTM);)
it's only conditioning
the common herbs can help, but not necessary
don't injure yourself and you can progress:mad:
practice 2x a day you can progress
use any hit or kick

start with
small canvas bag full of beans
when you can hit it with full force 200+ times without tearing the skin you will be ready for next bag

small canvas full of sand
when you can hit it with full force 200+ times without tearing the skin you will be ready for next bag

small canvas bag full of pea gravel
when you can hit it with full force 200+ times without tearing the skin you will be ready for next bag

small canvas bag full of gravel road
when you can hit it with full force 200+ times without tearing the skin you will be ready for next bag

at this level you can start to practice breaking things

do not tear the skin it will slow you.:mad:

:cool:

Nice routine.
;)
Especially like the full force thing.

Dale Dugas
11-07-2007, 08:22 AM
It is always amazing that there is someone out there who can give out sage advice yet can do nothing but pester and troll threads with a total lack of background or knowledge.

Full force hitting on bags, hunh?

Seems our troll has no clue at all, and that confirms it.

I have to say that Im not impressed with this mouthboxer who uses capitals like he has any idea what he is saying.

The fact that you say the medicinal formula are not needed shows your ignorance.

Anytime you want to show use what you can do rather than link to others vids feel free. Then we might think you have half a brain.

Mouthboxers suck.

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 08:37 AM
well I would think that if a person was interested in learning IRON PALM

they should already know how to hit a bean bag at least 5-10 times without tearing the skin

and yes full force.........:D

but I guess I'm NOT selling my show or magic potions.

sanjuro_ronin
11-07-2007, 08:39 AM
well I would think that if a person was interested in learning IRON PALM

they should already know how to hit a bean bag at least 5-10 times without tearing the skin

and yes full force.........:D

but I guess I'm NOT selling my show or magic potions.

What exactly are you selling Kemo ?
And what methods of IP have you trained in that allows you to evaluate them?

Dale Dugas
11-07-2007, 08:42 AM
well I would think that if a person was interested in learning IRON PALM

they should already know how to hit a bean bag at least 5-10 times without tearing the skin

and yes full force.........:D

but I guess I'm NOT selling my show or magic potions.

You have no idea what Iron Palm is about.

That is obvious.

You have nothing to show so you make crap up.

You are sad. I pity you and anyone in your family.

Good luck with your fictitious training routines. You are going to need some serious luck with the damage you will do to yourself and the lawsuits that result from some kid doing what you suggest.

Why do you offer up such drivel rather than show us you can break even a one inch board?

Because you cannot.

Mouthboxer.

Why not come out and tell us where you live and where you train?

I would love to talk to your teacher because if this is what they are teaching you. They have seriously mislead you.

Mouthboxers suck.

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 08:53 AM
for your Internal Side:D
When exercising the main point is peace of mind and concentration.

The heart must be pure, it is necessary to foster High Moral Qualities, it is necessary to form clearness of purpose. if after that you engage in GONG FU, you will get excellent results.

My best teacher..:cool:


The way of Peace (http://jesusthecomforter.com/)

sanjuro_ronin
11-07-2007, 08:56 AM
for your Internal Side:D
When exercising the main point is peace of mind and concentration.

The heart must be pure, it is necessary to foster High Moral Qualities, it is necessary to form clearness of purpose. if after that you engage in GONG FU, you will get excellent results.

My best teacher..:cool:


The way of Peace (http://jesusthecomforter.com/)

LOL !
I think you should take your own advice to heart.

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 09:06 AM
I Believe I take it to Heart.:D

Dale Dugas
11-07-2007, 09:17 AM
Kemo the coward.

Martin The Mouthboxer.

You have no skills
no training
no teachers

sad little mouthboxer.

Again, man up and post some vids of you hitting your bags full force. I would very much like to see that and see how your arms/hands tremble from the nerve damage you have created without training with medicine or any serious qi gong programs.

But then you seem to have some agenda only with poking fun at me.

Thats all good, but when you cannot even duplicate what I can do, then how in the world can you think you can evaluate it or judge me?

Akronviper
11-07-2007, 09:29 AM
here is what I would suggest:)

There is no secret Iron Palm Training (pg 15 IPTM);)
it's only conditioning
the common herbs can help, but not necessary
don't injure yourself and you can progress:mad:
practice 2x a day you can progress
use any hit or kick

start with
small canvas bag full of beans
when you can hit it with full force 200+ times without tearing the skin you will be ready for next bag

small canvas full of sand
when you can hit it with full force 200+ times without tearing the skin you will be ready for next bag

small canvas bag full of pea gravel
when you can hit it with full force 200+ times without tearing the skin you will be ready for next bag

small canvas bag full of gravel road
when you can hit it with full force 200+ times without tearing the skin you will be ready for next bag

at this level you can start to practice breaking things

do not tear the skin it will slow you.:mad:

:cool:

Man, you are full of some thing, I just dont know yet. What kind of puss* tears his hand on a bag of beans. Keep using this program, I wish every one used it so if I fought them they would try to devastate me with that iron palm. Do you have a program for chi blasts also? If you put a towel down before you broke a block you would in essence achive the same level of conditioning as this program.

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 09:36 AM
What I didn't quite understand your thought:confused:

tattooedmonk
11-07-2007, 09:52 AM
Obviously has his own opininon and knowledge and does not want to learn from anyone else . There is no point in trying to force the issue with him.

sanjuro_ronin
11-07-2007, 09:56 AM
Obviously has his own opininon and knowledge and does not want to learn from anyone else . There is no point in trying to force the issue with him.

I think it goes beyond that, it seems there may be personal issues with Dale.

Akronviper
11-07-2007, 10:14 AM
What I didn't quite understand your thought:confused:

My thoughts are your method is Sh**t and if you are serious and not trolling dont use it in a fight because you will get hurt. If you have ever broken any thing you know that you can bypass your "conditioning" by putting a towel over the blocks to protect your fragile hand. will it help you hit harder, no. Just will help with the sting.

There are external methods and internal methods. I dont care what you use I use what i think is best and so should you but to put this type of B.S out there for people who dont know better is a shame.

golden arhat
11-07-2007, 10:54 AM
dude i juts looked at your site

thats a pretty neat trick i'd love to beable to do that

cna u use it in a fight effectivly or do you need to prepare first in order to use iron palm ?

where can i learn it in the uk ?

Dale Dugas
11-07-2007, 11:23 AM
dude i juts looked at your site

thats a pretty neat trick i'd love to beable to do that

cna u use it in a fight effectivly or do you need to prepare first in order to use iron palm ?

where can i learn it in the uk ?

Are you speaking to me?

If so you can come learn from me here in Boston as that is where I am based.

Thank you for the kind words.

Dale Dugas
11-07-2007, 11:23 AM
What I didn't quite understand your thought:confused:

Mouthboxers are cowards.

Piercinghammer
11-07-2007, 01:11 PM
I don't wish to come across as impolite:

Anyone who is training their iron palm method using mung beans, sand
or pea gravel is really just wasting their valuable time and effort. The only,
and I will say again "only" method to get absolute results is to use about 100 lbs
of lead shot packed very carefully into a leather or lined "heavy" canvas bag.
The training is mildy dangerous, in that if you do not watch how you hit this bag
you will injure yourself.

The medicine must have a great deal of resins in it to seal off the skin from
the slight potential of the lead coming through the bag " but it will not".

The training should be done 2 times per day for a total of 500 strikes per day
after you have reached about the 40th day of training.

Strict attention must be used with this training, it is not for the knucklehead who
cannot understand what a relaxed body is and hit's the bag with force.
YOU WILL BREAK YOUR HAND.

This is to be done every day without missing, you should not " cannot"
break the training if you can help it within the first 100 days.

"The Mind leads the Chi. This has an association with the odor of the medicine.
The odor of the medicine should trigger the movement of the chi. you will know this
when you smell the finished medicine and your saliva glands start to produce.
This movement must then be controlled and channeled with specific mental
"qi gong" exercises. before and throughout training.

This is the way things were done in the old school, prior to people selling
their video's and iron plam programs. I had dinner with a very well known
Northern Shaolin master some years back who was doing this mung bean and sand method with the video tapes and liniment sales angle. My feeling was
that he felt this method was a safe way to introduce a person to this type of
training, make money and not get tangled up with attorneys when somone
hurts themselves.... but authentic, for true results, it would never fly in some
places. and it has never flown with me.

I will be doing a complete article in inside Kung fu on this subject, enough years have passed.


Mike Biggie

7 Star praying mantis
Hung sing Choy li fut

sanjuro_ronin
11-07-2007, 01:17 PM
I don't wish to come across as impolite:

Anyone who is training their iron palm method using mung beans, sand
or pea gravel is really just wasting their valuable time and effort. The only,
and I will say again "only" method to get absolute results is to use about 100 lbs
of lead shot packed very carefully into a leather or lined "heavy" canvas bag.
The training is mildy dangerous, in that if you do not watch how you hit this bag
you will injure yourself.

The medicine must have a great deal of resins in it to seal off the skin from
the slight potential of the lead coming through the bag " but it will not".

The training should be done 2 times per day for a total of 500 strikes per day
after you have reached about the 40th day of training.

Strict attention must be used with this training, it is not for the knucklehead who
cannot understand what a relaxed body is and hit's the bag with force.
YOU WILL BREAK YOUR HAND.

This is to be done every day without missing, you should not " cannot"
break the training if you can help it within the first 100 days.

"The Mind leads the Chi. This has an association with the odor of the medicine.
The odor of the medicine should trigger the movement of the chi. you will know this
when you smell the finished medicine and your saliva glands start to produce.
This movement must then be controlled and channeled with specific mental
"qi gong" exercises. before and throughout training.

This is the way things were done in the old school, prior to people selling
their video's and iron plam programs. I had dinner with a very well known
Northern Shaolin master some years back who was doing this mung bean and sand method with the video tapes and liniment sales angle. My feeling was
that he felt this method was a safe way to introduce a person to this type of
training, make money and not get tangled up with attorneys when somone
hurts themselves.... but authentic, for true results, it would never fly in some
places. and it has never flown with me.

I will be doing a complete article in inside Kung fu on this subject, enough years have passed.


Mike Biggie

7 Star praying mantis
Hung sing Choy li fut

Right on, though 100lbs of lead shot seems to be a bit much, I mean, what size hand do you have ??

Piercinghammer
11-07-2007, 01:24 PM
The 100 lb lead filled bag has a very specfic reason. The lead shot packs in a certain way different from any other material and has a different feel than any other material when you "drop" your hand on it. The bag should be packed as
tightly with shot as you can get it. No loose bb's rolling around in there.

Mke Biggie

sanjuro_ronin
11-07-2007, 01:26 PM
The 100 lb lead filled bag has a very specfic reason. The lead shot packs in a certain way different from any other material and has a different feel than any other material when you "drop" your hand on it. The bag should be packed as
tightly with shot as you can get it. No loose bb's rolling around in there.

Mke Biggie

I understand, though in some schools a little give is prefered, but 100lbs of lead shot?
I mean, wouldn't that depend on the size of the bag?

It only needs to be bigger than your hand, not your car ;)

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 01:28 PM
Akronviper-:confused: what towel are you talking about? i never said anything about a towel, and if you think a little soft towel will protect a fragile hand, so a person can bypass any conditioning
more BS

and yes, Piercinghammer-;) mine is the safe way- and not a waste of time:D

and as far as Lead, if you use lead you are an IDIOT
you can use stainless steel shot if you need to go to that level
as far as the medicine triggering your chi Hahahahahahahaahahah

to start with the hardest material is why people injure themselves.....:D



I'm not selling anything just trying to shed some light on a Dark Subject..

sanjuro_ronin
11-07-2007, 01:31 PM
Akronviper-:confused: what towel are you talking about? i never said anything about a towel, and if you think a little soft towel will protect a fragile hand, so a person can bypass any conditioning
more BS

and yes, Piercinghammer-;) mine is the safe way- and not a waste of time:D

and as far as Lead, if you use lead you are an IDIOT
you can use stainless steel shot if you need to go to that level
as far as the medicine triggering your chi Hahahahahahahaahahah

to start with the hardest material is why people injure themselves.....:D



I'm not selling anything just trying to shed some light on a Dark Subject..

Stainless steel shot ???
Do you even take into account rebound ?

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 01:36 PM
Stainless steel shot ???
Do you even take into account rebound ?

Lead Shot ?
do you take into account- POISON :mad:

more BS

Dale Dugas
11-07-2007, 01:43 PM
Kemo,

You have no knowledge of what you speak.

Shifu Mike Biggie and I have been friends for years and have learned iron palm from similar sources. We use lead shot in special bags that are lined so that nothing comes out.

My teacher told me to use lead. He has never been poisoned and I will not.

Again you are talking like you know something.

Your earlier reference was not only silly will cause more damage with your hitting with full force and using no medicinal formula.

You are one of the best mouthboxers I have seen lately.

Piercinghammer
11-07-2007, 01:45 PM
perhaps I should have made this point more clear..... You don't eat the lead.




Don't put the lead shot in your mouth. Make sure it stays in the carefully sealed
Leather or "lined" canvas bag. make sure that the medicine has a large amount
of resin in it to seal off the skin... it will feel sticky when it dries.




Mike Biggie

Dale Dugas
11-07-2007, 01:48 PM
Thanks for the clarification Mike.

It seems Kemo claims to have knowledge of Iron Palm but has no video to prove he has any skills.

How about a vid of you hitting with full force on your bag.

Ill bring my bag to you and you can try and hit it full force and we will see what happens. You would break your hand.

Mouthboxers are cowards.

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 02:07 PM
the reason they didn't use things like stainless steel in the "OLD DAYS"

is probably because they didn't have it... you think:rolleyes:

so now wonderful alternates are available...for more than just this too!



a classic example of being stuck in the past huh!:D

do you need a video to understand LEAD POISONING:eek:

trying to learn/train within a minimum time period is not good


take your time train hard be safe

Akronviper
11-07-2007, 02:41 PM
perhaps I should have made this point more clear..... You don't eat the lead.




Don't put the lead shot in your mouth. Make sure it stays in the carefully sealed
Leather or "lined" canvas bag. make sure that the medicine has a large amount
of resin in it to seal off the skin... it will feel sticky when it dries.




Mike Biggie

Thats interesting, I used the PVC/Rubber lined bags but didn't know the Jow will help too.

When do you guys wash your hand after you hit your bag, my wife hates the smell (I love it) so I wait 30 mins then wash. Should you wash sooner just incase of lead contanimation or leave on so it works better.

Akronviper
11-07-2007, 02:45 PM
the reason they didn't use things like stainless steel in the "OLD DAYS"

is probably because they didn't have it... you think:rolleyes:

so now wonderful alternates are available...for more than just this too!



a classic example of being stuck in the past huh!:D

do you need a video to understand LEAD POISONING:eek:

trying to learn/train within a minimum time period is not good


take your time train hard be safe

They had copper, bronze, stone, beans, tree bark, coral, steel, concrete..... the list goes on. The lead gives some, deadens the blow and gives a good of amount of resistance. Use stainless steel ball bearings if ya want, just dosnt give you the same results and you end up hurting your hand. I want a powerfull strike without a deformed elephant hand that has no feeling

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 02:54 PM
lead poisoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Symptoms_and_effects):D

pretty easy to understand

why its so dangerous



especially when there are better ways;)

golden arhat
11-07-2007, 04:45 PM
Are you speaking to me?

If so you can come learn from me here in Boston as that is where I am based.

Thank you for the kind words.

no problem man

i'd come down and see what ur about in second if i lived in boston
well unless ur talking about boston yorkshire and not boston massacheusetts
in which case i will definately come down and see you



still tho the question
could you use it on the spot in a fight without preparing for a while first ?

do you teach it seperately ? or as part of a system like bagua ?
because i have no interest in learning that

more in incorporating it into my mma game

thankyou


fred

golden arhat
11-07-2007, 04:48 PM
lead poisoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Symptoms_and_effects):D

pretty easy to understand

why its so dangerous



especially when there are better ways;)

"The term "lead poisoning" is sometimes used as a dysphemism for gunshot wounds, as almost all bullets are mainly composed of lead. Despite this, bullets lodged in the body rarely cause significant levels of lead poisoning."




weird that A BULLET lodged in the body
wont cause lead poisoning

but slapping a bag of it will ?


:rolleyes:

Dale Dugas
11-07-2007, 05:01 PM
no problem man

i'd come down and see what ur about in second if i lived in boston
well unless ur talking about boston yorkshire and not boston massacheusetts
in which case i will definately come down and see you



still tho the question
could you use it on the spot in a fight without preparing for a while first ?

do you teach it seperately ? or as part of a system like bagua ?
because i have no interest in learning that

more in incorporating it into my mma game

thankyou


fred

I have submitted an article to Gene Ching recently entitled: Iron Palm Old School training for MMA.

Have to wait and see if and when it comes out....

I would gladly come over and teach a seminar across the pond. Who knows. I might get over there sometime soon.

Be well.

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 05:02 PM
Lead affects the peripheral and central nervous system. The most common sign of peripheral neuropathy due to chronic lead poisoning is painless wristdrop (weakness of the extensor muscles of hand) which usually develops after many weeks of exposure.



does- full metal jacket mean anything:eek:

? I would bet, lead shot is not the best for hunting either, huh"

Dale Dugas
11-07-2007, 05:02 PM
lead poisoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Symptoms_and_effects):D

pretty easy to understand

why its so dangerous



especially when there are better ways;)


Right,

better ways to do something that you have no clue about.

Maybe you should have direct experience rather than talk out your backside.

Kemo, you are nothing but a mouthboxer. and mouthboxers are cowards

NJM
11-07-2007, 05:08 PM
Kemo is full of crap, we know that because of the routine he posted.

Piercinghammer
11-07-2007, 05:18 PM
AkronViper

The medicine should have several things it does, 1# is to medicate the hand
and help keep the swelling down, this is best done if the medicine is very warm to
hot and the hand is soaked in it for 5 min or so before training. Soaking the hand in the warm herbal mixture allows the pores to open up and the herbal compounds to pass through the skin into the layers of tissue below. #2 if the formula is a true Iron palm formula it will be rich with resins and gums. These
will make the formula slightly sticky, as the medicine dries the gums will have coated the hand. when you start to hit the iron palm bag you will pound the
resins into the pores of the skin and they will seal the hand from the metal.

This type of training goes far back in shaolin history, and shows up in many old manuscripts where, say a practioner would use a lead mallet on his body to
condition soft places on his torso and the would coat the instrument with myrrh gum and other herbs to seal the lead off from the body. Lead was the preferd
metal because of its dense nature and its deat hit. many of us like to use a
large strand of copper cable these days, I'm sure you are familar with this to
condition parts of your arms

#3 is that a really good iron palm formula will when smelled have an effect on the body. It will have the effect of calming the mind and causing the... I hate to use these words... causing the chi to move. One of the things you would notice
is your saliva glands start to produce. The back of your mouth will feel tight, like you would like to bite down on something.

During the very slow deliberate training the odor of the medicine and the qigong will become associated subcontously with one another. As training time passes
much of the qigong training can be triggerd by the odor of the herbs and bring
your body and nervous system the the ready point for more training. A kind of
in the zone thing.
Remember the mind controlls the qi, the herbs only help make the jump to the next level of training.

This type of training is not for everybody, its very time intinsive and meticulous
"Zen" would be a good word to decribe it.

Your probably right Kemo... people should beat a sandbag and use Bengay.
this is far too much for people... I think we should let the old authentic methods
die off.

please forgive any misspellings... I don't feel like going back over this.

Mike Biggie
7 Star praying mantis
Hung sing Choy li fut

Akronviper
11-07-2007, 05:19 PM
does- full metal jacket mean anything:eek:


Full metal jacket refers to a fully loaded M-16 magazine....

If you have ever broken a block there is some stinging, if you put a towel over the block and break it the sting is less. You never said any thing about a towel I did, referring that your program is as usefull as a towel.

Water mains have lead joints, some people have lead water services to their house, some people have lead in their copper joints in their houses. why havent they died and they ingest it not hit it in a sealed bag.

Stop googling and alow a good topic continue. You have Dale and Mike Biggie offering good info on a good topic sit back and taken in the message of some knowledgeable people

Come on man your just flaming to flame now.

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 05:39 PM
well, you can go on and keep working that super breaking technique (IRON PALM)
with your "internal" power (poisoning)
and use your secret medicine that will prevent lead poisoning (because its sticky)
so you can break 2 slabs of concrete (with a towelette)
while standing still , after meditating to move your medicine driven chi
and act as if its some secret training:eek:


you would think...... if you knew better.......... then it would.... just..... be... stupid!:(


to me that is thE sad misconception of training from ignorance

moving the chi K.R.A.P. always cracks me up!:D

and I never said don't use herbs, the're great, some better than others.
just that it's not required:(

I-K
11-07-2007, 06:30 PM
I understand, though in some schools a little give is prefered, but 100lbs of lead shot?
I mean, wouldn't that depend on the size of the bag?

It only needs to be bigger than your hand, not your car ;)

Dude... lead's, like, y'know, heavy... ;)

100lb of it would pack down into a bag about the size of a hefty textbook[1]. Not that I have the first clue about this type of conditioning, but wouldn't that be about the right size for a punching target?



[1]Mass density of pure lead is 11,340kg per cubic metre, according to the Internet. 100lb of it, then, takes up just short of 4,000 cubic cm. Figure spheres to pack down so, say, 25&#37; of total volume is empty space, 100lb of lead shot takes up 5,000 cubic cm. That gives you a box 25cm long, 20cm wide and 10cm thick.

Piercinghammer
11-07-2007, 06:41 PM
here is my e-mail, if anyone would like to see a couple of pics of what I'm explaining e- mail me and I will send the pics to you. I don't think there is a way to link them to my posts... is there?

MantisBxr@aol.com

Mike Biggie

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 06:52 PM
Iron Palm results (http://www.ehponline.org/members/2007/115-1/focus.html):D

:cool:

NJM
11-07-2007, 06:57 PM
Iron Palm results (http://www.ehponline.org/members/2007/115-1/focus.html):D

:cool:

Do you realize how that lead enters the body?

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 07:05 PM
let me take a wild guess:rolleyes:

:mad:Exposure ?:mad:

duh..........

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 07:22 PM
Oh I found a video IRON ARM:)
Iron Arm training (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmybN2nQ7GI)

do you use lead also
along with moving the chi

what about iron shirt..........:confused:

looks like conditioning 101:D

hahahahahahahahahahahaahah

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 07:40 PM
I know there is another thread on this but I wanted a new thread.

I'm wanting to train with iron palm, but in my area there are no instructors that I know of that can teach that. Therefore, I must resort to videos and handbooks. Ive done some research but I figured Id hit some forums to find out from other people like myself.

First off, what are some recommended kits? So far ive been looking at Wing Lam's kit and Richard Meir's kit, both of which are around the 100 dollar area. I couldn't find reviews, testimonials, or any other credibility that will assure safe and authentic training. With something like iron palm, I don't want to risk damaging my hands, so Im doing extensive research to not only get the safest training, but getting my money's worth.

Any suggestions on kits or overall iron palm training is appreciated. Thank you.

this might help

iron palm 101 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-ir4pjveQk):D

NJM
11-07-2007, 07:57 PM
let me take a wild guess:rolleyes:

:mad:Exposure ?:mad:

duh..........


What type of exposure, Martin? I want you to specify. Inhaling it? Absorbing it through to pores? consuming it?

Where do those stats come from?

Kemo Martin
11-07-2007, 08:31 PM
exposure::)

.............the condition of being subject to some effect or influence.........

stats:mad:

lead poisoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Symptoms_and_effects):D

pretty easy to understand

why its so dangerous



especially when there are better ways;)

try clicking the link lead poisoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Symptoms_and_effects) then READ:D


fact sheet (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts13.pdf)

NJM
11-07-2007, 11:20 PM
exposure::)

.............the condition of being subject to some effect or influence.........

stats:mad:


try clicking the link lead poisoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Symptoms_and_effects) then READ:D


fact sheet (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts13.pdf)

I want you to tell me now, in this thread, that their method causes lead poisoning and I want to know the specifics. I know you have no idea how lead poisoning works in regard to pores.

Drake
11-08-2007, 12:29 AM
The scariest part of Article 15 is perhaps on the administrative side. Generally, there are 3 or 4 types of "punishment" that precede Article 15 territory--its more than the obligatory slap on the wrist. Multiple Article 15s can lead to things like jail time, cuts in pay/grade, and dishonorable discharge.

Anything and everything before UCMJ is "corrective training", such as ridiculous amounts of pushups, pullups off the side of the building, etc. And a single AR 15 can cause grade loss, pay forfeiture, and be the only required stepping stone for a Chapter. I know this because we have it going on right now in our unit, and I don't think the guy is going to be staying in. Also had an incident a few years back where a guy was tossed out over a single incident.

You aren't so much wrong, PlumDragon, but that is a bit of a broad generalization. I am a Staff monster, so I see a bigger picture than what you might have.

Point it, as you all can see, it varies wildly from unit to unit. PlumDragon's unit might have had different standards for pushing a Chapter, whereas my unit will destroy you if you do something bad enough.

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 04:13 AM
I want you to tell me now, in this thread, that their method causes lead poisoning and I want to know the specifics. I know you have no idea how lead poisoning works in regard to pores.


Dermal exposure plays a role for exposure to organic lead among workers, but is not considered a significant pathway for the general population.

* Organic lead may be absorbed directly through the skin.
* Organic lead (tetramethyllead) is more likely to be absorbed through the skin than inorganic lead.
* Dermal exposure is most likely among people who work with lead.:D

Dermal absorption of inorganic lead compounds is generally quite low. One study reported increased levels in saliva and sweat following dermal exposure to inorganic lead, although blood or urine levels remained unchanged. It was postulated that the inorganic lead absorbed through the skin was transported in plasma and rapidly concentrated in sweat and saliva, without significant uptake by erythrocytes

The route of absorption has little effect on the distribution of lead

sanjuro_ronin
11-08-2007, 04:44 AM
I think Kemo keeps missing the part of the LINED bag.

Dude, you are so off base, just stop, you have expressed your view and opinion, now all that is left is you showing the proof of the way YOU train, do you have any?

Drake
11-08-2007, 04:57 AM
First off, I know nothing about iron palm, so I won't even touch the intricacies of it.

However, with the dangers of lead poisoning, lined (rippable) bags aside, wouldn't it make more sense to find a similar substance to use that won't decimate your bloddstream and pretty much ruin you? I mean, you can tout the safety of the bag all you like, but it just makes more sense to use something less toxic...

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 05:09 AM
I suppose you think...

Iron Palm training is dangerous because........

you hit the bean bag full force..............:confused:
and that will cause nerve damages.........:confused:

and

the liner in you bag will protect you........:eek:
hahahaahahahaha ahahahahahahah

who cares the breaking proof......

I am trying to explain why a person should NOT practice the "Old Way"
it's just stupid!


First off, I know nothing about iron palm, so I won't even touch the intricacies of it.

However, with the dangers of lead poisoning, lined (rippable) bags aside, wouldn't it make more sense to find a similar substance to use that won't decimate your bloddstream and pretty much ruin you? I mean, you can tout the safety of the bag all you like, but it just makes more sense to use something less toxic...

Thank You !:D

sanjuro_ronin
11-08-2007, 05:13 AM
First off, I know nothing about iron palm, so I won't even touch the intricacies of it.

However, with the dangers of lead poisoning, lined (rippable) bags aside, wouldn't it make more sense to find a similar substance to use that won't decimate your bloddstream and pretty much ruin you? I mean, you can tout the safety of the bag all you like, but it just makes more sense to use something less toxic...

First off, there are reasons for lead as mentioned, second, the bags are HEAVY lined with PVC, also the bag can't rip as there are no "ripping force" applied to it.

No one wants to be poisoned, do you think when one takes up a prpgram ( any program) you don't think it through?
Of course you do, I know I did.

That said, steel BB"s can be used and are used by some that have concerns about lead.
I work in the steel industry and I investigated the procedure and safety of it very, very throughly and was satisfied, if I wasn't I would use steel, its just that simple.

Drake
11-08-2007, 05:20 AM
First off, there are reasons for lead as mentioned, second, the bags are HEAVY lined with PVC, also the bag can't rip as there are no "ripping force" applied to it.

No one wants to be poisoned, do you think when one takes up a prpgram ( any program) you don't think it through?
Of course you do, I know I did.

That said, steel BB"s can be used and are used by some that have concerns about lead.
I work in the steel industry and I investigated the procedure and safety of it very, very throughly and was satisfied, if I wasn't I would use steel, its just that simple.


I'm just saying that for the longest time, people didn't even know lead was harmful. I'm not the one doing it, and I'm already occupied with an art, so I don't see myself taking it up anytime soon. It was just a little hip-pocket observation I made. If it's safe, then that's great.

sanjuro_ronin
11-08-2007, 05:21 AM
I'm just saying that for the longest time, people didn't even know lead was harmful. I'm not the one doing it, and I'm already occupied with an art, so I don't see myself taking it up anytime soon. It was just a little hip-pocket observation I made. If it's safe, then that's great.

I share you concern that is why I made sure HOW it was gonna be done was safe, if I had any issues I would have used steel which is an acceptable subsitutute.

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 05:34 AM
when the blind lead the blind......
they both fall in the ditch............

:(

sanjuro_ronin
11-08-2007, 05:37 AM
when the blind lead the blind......
they both fall in the ditch............

:(

Your troll -fu needs work, maybe lack of chi ?

here is something to get you chi moving !

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 05:56 AM
hahahahahah........
Iron pole training

excellent way to get the CHI moving:D
but, you must still use protection!

:D

sanjuro_ronin
11-08-2007, 06:19 AM
Protection:

Dale Dugas
11-08-2007, 07:47 AM
Kemo is nothing but a mouthboxer.

he does not train in any system nor has any skill other than snivelling fu.

It is obvious he does not train Iron Palm but came on here to detract from the thread and to try and discredit me.

Attached is a photo of my bag that I have been using for over 5 years.

It is full of #9 lead shot and I have been tapping it everday.

I have never had any issues with lead poisoning and will not due to what is involved.

Anyone interested in learning a real Iron Palm program as well as the Iron Vest are invited to come to NJ this weekend and learn. Click on the link below for more information http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/news/index.php

Also feel free to stop by Kemo as I would love to demo how iron palm carries over into combat striking. I invite you to come learn something real rather than the deluded poop you have been spouting since you came here.

Dale Dugas
11-08-2007, 07:51 AM
I suppose you think...

Iron Palm training is dangerous because........

you hit the bean bag full force..............:confused:
and that will cause nerve damages.........:confused:

and

the liner in you bag will protect you........:eek:
hahahaahahahaha ahahahahahahah

who cares the breaking proof......

I am trying to explain why a person should NOT practice the "Old Way"
it's just stupid!



Thank You !:D

The only thing stupid was the decision for you to be hatched.

Mouthboxer.

Step up or step off.

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 08:02 AM
Maybe you should
check your blood

for lead exposure

I hope you are not suffering from:p


Small But Measurable Cognitive Decline's":eek:

and then maybe BIGGIE can rewrite his article to include his and yours compaired to the normal

I think that would be a great article:D

Dale Dugas
11-08-2007, 08:08 AM
nothing but a mouthboxer and a coward.

You would never say any of this to my or Shifu Mike Biggies face.

You are sad.

Good luck with life, your lack of skill is going to get you into a serious situation someday and your skills will not be able to cash the checks your mouth are writing.

jason.
11-08-2007, 08:16 AM
Hi Dale,

Checked your sites out,

Nice break on that 4 incher!

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 08:19 AM
you don't think I would suggest
to anyone
that if they are dealing with lead every day

they should test there blood?

or suggest to rewrite to include some "REAL" data

or moving the CHI

c'mon!!:D

sanjuro_ronin
11-08-2007, 08:37 AM
you don't think I would suggest
to anyone
that if they are dealing with lead every day

they should test there blood?

or suggest to rewrite to include some "REAL" data

or moving the CHI

c'mon!!:D

You know, there are a few things you have yet to answer:
Who you are.
Who trained you
How long you have been doing IP
Why you don't produce a video of you doing a break

It seems you are talking a lot but are either ignoring what others are saying and repeating the same things over an dover because you like to see your own words in print or you truly don't understand what is being explained.

Dale Dugas
11-08-2007, 08:58 AM
Hi Dale,

Checked your sites out,

Nice break on that 4 incher!

Thanks for the kind words Jason. It was two two inch blocks.

There will be more vids up at the new year when I break 6 inches of block.

Dale Dugas
11-08-2007, 09:01 AM
Kemo has never trained IP. That is so obvious it hurts.

He has nothing offer other than his criticism which is based on his opinions and opinion alone, no knowledge base to include.

Kemo,

Who are you?

Who is your teacher?

What style(s) have you had ANY experience in?

How long have you been training in your full force IP program?


Anytime you want to attempt to answer these questions, feel free

If not, you are nothing but a cowardly mouthboxer.

jason.
11-08-2007, 09:04 AM
Thanks for the kind words Jason. It was two two inch blocks.

There will be more vids up at the new year when I break 6 inches of block.


You are welcome!

Can't wait to see the new videos!

PM me, I would love to talk IP / IV shop!

Akronviper
11-08-2007, 09:27 AM
The lead works great, I know people who have done iron palm for 20-50 yrs with and with out lined bags. They are still alive have normal kids and no cancer. The exposure is minimal. I have known people with lead poisoning and they work with lead every day an usually receive through the dust or not washing their hand prior to eating lunch. They work with lead so much that there hands and faces are black but only the ones that don't follow the precautions of washing prior to eating or not wearing masks.

Black mold is bad now when people see mold that is black they want to tear there house down, when a strain of mold that is black is harmful with hundreds of other strains of black mold are harmless. They are buzz words, like mercury how many people played with mercury and lived to tell about it and now we evacuate schools if there is a small spill.

A softer copper may be a alternative or even tungstun. You can still hunt with lead and eat it with out issues. If you dont feel comfortable use tungstun or steel. Use sand, gravel, your underwear i dont care just dont do it like Kemo. Leave the lead to the people who are not worried, you trying to change us still does not make that laughable program any good.

Akronviper
11-08-2007, 09:32 AM
Hey, Mike or Dale is there a minimum time to leave the medicine on for. I dont want to limit the effectiveness.

Mike, great info on the jow.

tattooedmonk
11-08-2007, 09:50 AM
you don't think I would suggest
to anyone
that if they are dealing with lead every day

they should test there blood?

or suggest to rewrite to include some "REAL" data

or moving the CHI

c'mon!!:DSo you do not believe in Qi?? And you do not believe that the mind can control and move the Qi at will??

Dale Dugas
11-08-2007, 10:14 AM
Hey, Mike or Dale is there a minimum time to leave the medicine on for. I dont want to limit the effectiveness.

Mike, great info on the jow.

I leave the medicine on for at least 20 minutes after Im done. By that time the medicine has gotten in and done what its supposed to do.

But Im lucky that my wife doesnt mind the smell of Iron Palm medicine or Dit Da Jow. Being that I make and sell it, thats a good thing....

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 10:25 AM
I believe the best way to nourish the chi is...
1st -DIET
2nd- Breathing



and NO I don't believe you can move you chi with your mind.
more BS

but of course that just my opinion.

do you ?

and you believe all the harmful effect of Iron Palm are from hitting too hard...
NOT the lead toxicity?:eek:

to each his own.

Dale Dugas
11-08-2007, 10:30 AM
I believe the best way to nourish the chi is...
1st -DIET
2nd- Breathing



and NO I don't believe you can move you chi with your mind.
more BS

but of course that just my opinion.

do you ?

and you believe all the harmful effect of Iron Palm are from hitting too hard...
NOT the lead toxicity?:eek:

to each his own.

And what would your own be?

You seem to be a clown who cannot answer questions posed to you.

You post and post yet do not have a spine to be a real human.

Coward.

Mouthboxer

You are ignored hence most people here have put you on ignore.

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 10:51 AM
I guess........... to ignore
breeds Ignorance.

it seems you have been ignoring alot!!

Dale Dugas
11-08-2007, 10:56 AM
wow.

seems you cannot even answer simple questions.

That must mean:

1. you have no skill to speak of
2. you would get a serious ass whoopin if your teacher found out.
3. mommy would take the internet away.
4. maybe they would have to up your haldol.

Bye bye.

tattooedmonk
11-08-2007, 11:00 AM
I believe the best way to nourish the chi is...
1st -DIET
2nd- Breathing



and NO I don't believe you can move you chi with your mind.
more BS

but of course that just my opinion.

do you ?

and you believe all the harmful effect of Iron Palm are from hitting too hard...
NOT the lead toxicity?:eek:

to each his own.So you do believe in Qi.

You are right those are two of the best ways to nourish Qi. I would put breathing first , because if you are not breathing you are not eating.:D

How do you walk , talk , think, etc. if you can not control or move Qi with your mind??

I personally do not use lead because of the toxicity of it. My personal choice and opinion.

tattooedmonk
11-08-2007, 11:02 AM
why are you letting this guy get under your skin?? Go Meditate!!:p:D:cool:

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 11:07 AM
dale
not cannot............ will not:p

does it really matter?



tattooedmonk-

I put Eating first

because you have a choice

breathing is automatic

plus,................ I don't have to conjure up my chi to walk

I seem to just kind of ....................GO1:D

Danny Eckart
11-08-2007, 11:12 AM
Brother Dale!

I Just got back into the "being online thing" and saw this little debate. There are a great number of people who know and respect you for what you know and what you can do. No reason to try to convert this fool, or even give him the time of day.

Danny

Dale Dugas
11-08-2007, 11:29 AM
Brother Dale!

I Just got back into the "being online thing" and saw this little debate. There are a great number of people who know and respect you for what you know and what you can do. No reason to try to convert this fool, or even give him the time of day.

Danny

Brother,

good to see you back online. Thanks for the kind words.

Kemo is ignored. He is nothing but a mouthboxer.

There is only one way to figure this out really.

Breaking demos.

He does his breaks and I do mine.

Too bad he is not willing to put his money where his mouth is. That he cannot do it is totally another story.

Drake
11-08-2007, 11:44 AM
Yes, Kemo is being a bit imflammatory in his posts. I thought it was a legitimate concern about lead poisoning.


AW MAN I WALKED DOWN THE WRONG PATH AGAIN

sanjuro_ronin
11-08-2007, 11:52 AM
Yes, Kemo is being a bit imflammatory in his posts. I thought it was a legitimate concern about lead poisoning.


AW MAN I WALKED DOWN THE WRONG PATH AGAIN

His concern is legit, he just seems to ignore the replies to his concern, or refuses to acknowledge them.

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 12:00 PM
think about this



Lead affects the peripheral and central nervous system. The most common sign of peripheral neuropathy due to chronic lead poisoning is painless wristdrop (weakness of the extensor muscles of hand) which usually develops after many weeks of exposure.


Kung Fu 101
Why do you think they call it "Iron Palm"?



do you just think it could be from the symptoms described "painless? wristdrop?"

ohh . nnnnnnnnooooooooo!!!!!!!


don't be fooled :eek:

you must change the ways of the "OLD Masters"

sanjuro_ronin
11-08-2007, 12:03 PM
think about this




Kung Fu 101
Why do you think they call it "Iron Palm"?



do you just think it could be from the symptoms described "painless? wristdrop?"

ohh . nnnnnnnnooooooooo!!!!!!!


don't be fooled :eek:

you must change the ways of the "OLD Masters"

Who are you and who was your teacher and who are these "old masters" you speak of ?

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 12:07 PM
Who are you and who was your teacher and who are these "old masters" you speak of ?

are you serious???????:eek:

how can that matter????????????:mad:

sanjuro_ronin
11-08-2007, 12:10 PM
are you serious???????:eek:

how can that matter????????????:mad:

Well if it doesn't matter, why not tell us?
If it does, why not tell us ?

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 12:25 PM
Look

It doesn't matter
because no matter what i say
people only believe what they want to believe

so you have to learn to TRUST what YOU believe
and get rid of the BS surrounding Martial Arts and anything else
that keeps you from excelling in your ART!


me................... I AM an Artist.................
I can create

there are three levels to the martial arts

1st- for Health
2nd-for Application
3rd- for Expression

me I like to Express Myself......................:D

sanjuro_ronin
11-08-2007, 12:30 PM
Look

It doesn't matter
because no matter what i say
people only believe what they want to believe

so you have to learn to TRUST what YOU believe
and get rid of the BS surrounding Martial Arts and anything else
that keeps you from excelling in your ART!


me................... I AM an Artist.................
I can create

there are three levels to the martial arts

1st- for Health
2nd-for Application
3rd- for Expression

me I like to Express Myself......................:D


Who are you and who was your teacher?
Where did you learn that from of IP ?

tattooedmonk
11-08-2007, 12:56 PM
tattooedmonk-

I put Eating first

because you have a choice

breathing is automatic

plus,................ I don't have to conjure up my chi to walk

I seem to just kind of ....................GO1:DYou have a choice to do both, although if you choose not to breath it will kill you quicker than if you choose not to eat. Not all breathing is automatic. So you do not have to "conjure" up qi to walk?? Then how do you walk??

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 01:08 PM
does the word autonomic mean anything anymore:confused:

sanjuro_ronin
11-08-2007, 01:10 PM
does the word autonomic mean anything anymore:confused:

Who are you and who was your teacher?
Where did you learn that from of IP ?

Do you know what reverse breathing is and is it automatic?

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 01:23 PM
Not automatic:eek:

AUTONOMIC:mad:

I think if you concentrate on a lead free diet
you will have better results...........:D

golden arhat
11-08-2007, 02:18 PM
Not automatic:eek:

AUTONOMIC:mad:

I think if you concentrate on a lead free diet
you will have better results...........:D

who was your teacher?

Akronviper
11-08-2007, 03:20 PM
he wont repley because he has no training or by his methods a sub par teacher. All talk and no action hopefully one of you could meet up with him and show him iron palm. He argues about the lead but not his poor training. It not the old CMA way it just common sense.

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 07:35 PM
Let me ask you a question

why do YOU train Iron Palm?

Akronviper
11-08-2007, 07:51 PM
Let me ask you a question

why do YOU train Iron Palm?

Have seen and experienced the power you can add to your strikes, especially short range. Also I believe it gives you a confidence boost in your ability to deliver damaging strikes

Kemo Martin
11-08-2007, 08:23 PM
Have seen and experienced the power you can add to your strikes, especially short range. Also I believe it gives you a confidence boost in your ability to deliver damaging strikes

ability to deliver with boosted confidence
to whom

:confused:

NJM
11-08-2007, 09:33 PM
ability to deliver with boosted confidence
to whom

:confused:

Why don't you answer the question posed earlier?

Who is your teacher?

Akronviper
11-09-2007, 05:12 AM
ability to deliver with boosted confidence
to whom

:confused:

The only person that matters, YOU

Thats a secondary effect that I personally feel, others may not.

Kemo Martin
11-09-2007, 08:43 AM
The only person that matters, YOU
.................................................. ..:o

:D

tattooedmonk
11-09-2007, 12:00 PM
does the word autonomic mean anything anymore:confused: Autonomic; of or controlled by that part of the nervous system that regulates the motor functions of the heart , lungs , etc.

your point??

sanjuro_ronin
11-09-2007, 12:04 PM
Autonomic; of or controlled by that part of the nervous system that regulates the motor functions of the heart , lungs , etc.

your point??

Point? maybe his pointy head ?
;)

Kemo Martin
11-09-2007, 12:21 PM
you had to look that up:p didn't you?
Bless your Heart:D

sanjuro_ronin
11-09-2007, 12:33 PM
you had to look that up:p didn't you?
Bless your Heart:D

Who are you and who is your teacher and where did you learn IP?
Do you know what "reverse" breathing is ?

tattooedmonk
11-09-2007, 12:41 PM
you had to look that up:p didn't you?
Bless your Heart:DYou still have not made your point about autonomic nervous system, nor have you posted your backround or why it is that you do not believe what it is most here know about IP or with whom you have studied. So when are your going to do this??If you want anyone to take you seriously then you should do these things.

sanjuro_ronin
11-09-2007, 12:43 PM
You still have not made your point about autonomic nervous system, nor have you posted your backround or why it is that you do not believe what it is most here know about IP or with whom you have studied. So when are your going to do this??If you want anyone to take you seriously then you should do these things.

If we take his posts in the olympic wushu thread into account, he is in his own little world.

Piercinghammer
11-09-2007, 01:04 PM
here is a photo of my iron palm training bag, it weighs approx 100 lbs. The dark
stains are from the resin's in the iron palm medicine.


Thanks

Mike Biggie

sanjuro_ronin
11-09-2007, 01:09 PM
here is a photo of my iron palm training bag, it weighs approx 100 lbs. The dark
stains are from the resin's in the iron palm medicine.


Thanks

Mike Biggie

Why so big?
Doesn't really have to be much bigger than your open hand, right?

Piercinghammer
11-09-2007, 01:15 PM
No, it does not need to bigger than the hand, a smaller size would be fine.
the size of bag I use has alot to do with the way the shot packs down after
it has been struck several times and a larger size bag is just easier to train on.
I have in the past used smaller bags, I just prefer this larger size.


Thanks

Mike

sanjuro_ronin
11-09-2007, 01:16 PM
No, it does not need to bigger than the hand, a smaller size would be fine.
the size of bag I use has alot to do with the way the shot packs down after
it has been struck several times and a larger size big is just easier to train on.
I have in the past used smaller bags, I just prefer this larger size.


Thanks

Mike

Cool, I ask because mine is 9 x 9 , which is fine for my small hands and great to "take with me" when I have to :)

sanjuro_ronin
11-09-2007, 01:17 PM
Here is a photo of what I do not consider an iron palm training bag.



Mike Biggie

Yeah, those invisible bags are useless :D

Piercinghammer
11-09-2007, 01:19 PM
sorry about that, let me try this again.. this is the type of bag that I think is near
worthless to train iron palm.


Mike

tattooedmonk
11-09-2007, 01:57 PM
sorry about that, let me try this again.. this is the type of bag that I think is near
worthless to train iron palm.


Mikewhat is that a pillow??:D