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View Full Version : OT, sorry. about depression. i need advice pretty badly



ged
10-31-2001, 02:40 PM
hello everyone

is there anyone here who has had experience with depressed people? im not talking ordinary stuff.

this isnt about me, its about my girlfriend. i dont really feel comfortable talking about details on the internet. if someone can help me, can you please email me?

ged160@hotmail.com

she has a medical condition, shes on anti-depressants, and its serious. thats all i want to say.

sorry everyone for wasting bandwidth. i have no problem if you guys delete this after a few days, but can u just leave it on for a bit? ive realised that all my friends are too young to know about this stuff, and my parents dont really care.

thanks

oh, and kung fu is really cool. my goal is to be able to defeat an average boxer using only hands.

S.Teebas
10-31-2001, 03:28 PM
Ring up the Phych ward at your hospital and ask them dude, we are just kung fu guys...not doctors.

apoweyn
10-31-2001, 03:33 PM
you've got mail, ged.


stuart b.

JWTAYLOR
10-31-2001, 05:13 PM
I've never had a problem with depression, I'm far too arrogant for that.

But, I once heard that "depression is just agression turned inward".

That made allot of sense to me, and I decided that I would much rather hate everyone else than be angry at myself.

I'm abosolutely sure that didn't help you at all.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

shaolinboxer
10-31-2001, 05:25 PM
I have sent you a reply.

Cody
10-31-2001, 06:53 PM
It's not really clear whether you need help for your girl friend, or for how you cope with her condition. Since she is obviously under medical care, and I am not knowledgable re meds of this sort, and this board isn't for that, I'm not going to address her needs. I don't think this wastes bandwidth. The fact that you have come here, where you feel comfortable, shows that you need to talk about things. And I do think it's okay to come here and ask for a lead, cause mental illness/distress can be operational in both students and teachers. No one is immune.
I have a suggestion.

The internet is a wonderful resource. I noticed you're an Aussie. There is a website, Survivors on the Net. http://www.survivors.org.au
Now, this site focusses on survivors of various kinds of abuse; however, under the "support links" section, there is info about depression. I think they also have space for interaction with other people accessing this website. You could also write to the admin. of the site and ask for other suggestions, or use a search engine and see what they've got under "Depression." Very often mental health organizations with interactive sites will have an area for supporters (friends, etc.). And don't be shy about going into the other areas either, and politely introducing yourself. Make sure the site is reputable.

People who have strong connections with others who have diagnosed or undiagnosed mental illness often need help in understanding what is going on with the other person, and also in realizing if one is becoming a victim of the situation. The internet has been invaluable for me. I've spent 4 years investigating DID (multiple personality) that way. If I only knew then what I know now. The information you need is out there, and you can get support at the same time.

take care,
Cody

Kristoffer
10-31-2001, 07:22 PM
ask on the chinese med forum or whatever its called.. stand strong man

~K~
"maybe not in combat..... but think of the chicks man, the chicks!"

Ryu
10-31-2001, 07:55 PM
ged,
Yes I have had many experiences with medically depressed people, and I want to say first off, that a serious medical condition is in need of certified medical care.
That being said, the qualities needed in helping someone who is medically depressed are above all compassion, patience, and empathy.
Do not expect that you will personally be able to cure what they have, but being with them, and standing by their side no matter what the drain (it can be very emotionally draining) lets them know that they are not alone. But counseling and medical attention is where the real help will probably come from. It is not just about being a good "friend" to someone with depression, but it is about techniques and strategies that have been time tested, to help them.
I have been involved with people (both men and women) who have had extreme bouts of medical depression, and pro counseling was the real savior there. HOWEVER, I do believe that always being by someone's side, feeling their pain (not just sympathizing with it) and letting them know that you are with them through it, PLUS professional counseling and medical advice is a "one two" punch that can really knock depression out for good.

Hope your girlfriend is doing well. :)
You have the advantage I think. Let her know she's not alone.

Ryu

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimuraosawa.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

LEGEND
10-31-2001, 08:01 PM
JOHN WAYNE...good post...to save yourself from heartbreak u should be cocky and arrogant...i use to be the nicest guy...but the nice guy finish last!

A

Ryu
10-31-2001, 08:06 PM
CLINICAL depression is much harder to deal with internally then a case of the "blues"

:)
Ryu

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimuraosawa.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

GLW
11-01-2001, 12:34 AM
Ryu has it right on the money.

Clinical depression is a physical illness that has psychological symptoms.

It has roots in chemical imbalances (lithium, cortisol, and a number of others) and can be treated. However, treatment for each person may vary due to the imbalance. Bi-Polar or related types of depression often is treated with Lithium. Lithium, however, can cause bone loss and eventually brittleness and degenerative problems. Some other types are caused by cortisol levels. Drugs for this also have side effects. Patients have to have their blood levels checked and they have to be very consistent in taking their medications. It is a Chronic disorder meaning that you don't just get well but you have to learn to live with it.

From a family member or loved one's perspective, you need to be aware of the medications and how they behave on it and what are signs that the medications are working, not working, been over done, etc... You also have to be aware that the patient gets tired of being tied to medication. How would you feel if it was a requirement that to live a NORMAL life, you had to take expensive pills several times a day, every day, go in regularly for blood tests and other things, had to watch what you ate or drank because of interactions and then had to avoid stress and other NORMAL things in life because you were predisposed to problems.

This is the root of a level of frustration that your g/f may be feeling and she will probably let those closest to her in on some of the backlash...it is normal.

It can be a roller coaster ride and trying...but if you care for them, you do it. You MUST pay attention. One of the endpoints of severe depression can often be suicide. On medication, this may not happen but off of it or on the wrong one, it happens..... And it is a physical disease...not a mental one and definitely not a moral one as many once thought. It is not something she can just 'snap out of'

Be there for her....

brucelee2
11-01-2001, 12:58 AM
I read of a case recently of an obese man who had been depressed for many years. His diet had consisted entirely of hamburgers, junk food, chocolate milk, etc... After he was changed to a healthy diet and certain foods were cut out he was out of the depression EXTREMELY quickly.

Go forward, my son, and
be like unto a torch
upon the darkness. Thou
are stripped now, of all
that was before. Look
not to thy fellow men
for guidance or
countenance- they canst
advise you no longer.
Thou shalt be as dust
now, and dust shall be
upon the tongues of thy
enemy. Verily, thou
shalt herald the coming
of the new age upon
man."

Ryu
11-01-2001, 01:02 AM
I would pay attention to GLW's post.
I think some of you guys are mistaking "feeling blue" or "having unconfident years" with the actual psychological illness called "clinical depression."

It's a mental thing that is much harder to break by sheer will power alone.

Ryu

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimuraosawa.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

Ryu
11-01-2001, 01:04 AM
Though strong will and self-help do indeed have positive effects. But it's wrong to think it is as easy as "thinking positive" doesn't work that way.

Ryu

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimuraosawa.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

JennyLiuJKD
11-01-2001, 01:04 AM
I like guys who are physically and emotionally strong but arrogance is a big turn off at least to me. i think women with no self esteem of their own are more drawn to cocky guys who will show them no respect.

I hope all will be well with your girlfriend and i think it will definitely help her to see that you are being there for her. unfortunately i can't offer any help though. i have always been far too smiley happy to understand when people get seriously depressed

Deadliness is often masked by beauty

prana
11-01-2001, 01:53 AM
It is a vicious cycle, because I was once depressive, it is a vicious cycle, I was once depressive, it is a vicious cycle...

But then, I broke free... http://www.fpmt.org/teachings/zopadepression.asp I hope she does too :)

http://dharmatours.com/hbmc/Prwhbl1.gif

Martial Joe
11-01-2001, 02:53 AM
Ask whipping hand.
I think he is a mojor in psycology...
He might help...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

Martial Joe
11-01-2001, 02:53 AM
Find him on the wing chun forum...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

wufupaul
11-01-2001, 07:38 AM
I'm with JWT, I'm too cocky to be depressed, too, haha. GLW made a good point..be there for them. If they're depressed, they need to know that other people, besides themselves, depend on them and care about them. Plus, if they're depressed, alot of people won't wanna hang out with them, further making them dissasociate from their surroundings; nang with them, let them know you care. Anti-depressant medications(ssri's-such as Prozac) are used alot today; some people swear by them and others don't notice a thing. There are also dozens of schools of psychology that all have different ways of dealing with it. I tend to prefer the neuro-behavioral methods, myself. Of course, I only have my Bachelor's in Psychology; you don't really actively learn how to treat it until you get to grad. school. Basically, you learn alot about the different theories and treatments, but not alot of hands on experience. Best bet is to find another doctor if the current one doesn't seem to be helping. I've know plenty of people with affective disorders(depression, manic-depressive), and most seem to pull out of it. Ged, you can tell your girl that depression doesn't usually last forever, and it can be cured. It might take some time, but there is definitely hope.

In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about
life. IT GOES ON.

Robinf
11-01-2001, 03:35 PM
Actual clinical depression is a PHYSICAL illness, not a mental one. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain that canNOT be willed away or done away with by behavior training. It's much like diabetes or high bloodpressure. It's a physical, chemical imbalance that cannot be controlled by thought.

Change in diet, exercise can help ALEVIATE symptoms, but they're not cures. Clinical depression needs to be under thereputic and physical care.

Clinical depression is also something that's nothing to be ashamed of. It's something that just happens. If someone is predisposed to suffer from it, anything can bring it on--puberity is one thing, and then there's something that goes on between the ages of 18 and 21 that I think is being studied. These are the ages when depression and other neurological illness begin.

Again, clinical depression is nothing that can be "willed" away, and no amount of arrogance will prevent. It's an illness that happens. Like Mary Tyler Moore has diabetes and she's in excellent shape otherwise. It's just something that just can't be outrun.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

wufupaul
11-01-2001, 05:40 PM
Robin, I actually have studies that I can send you that show otherwise. You're right, clinical depression does have chemical symptoms(low levels of monoamines-norepinephrine, dopamine, and serotonin), but, over time these levels can gradually increase, or, using behavioral therapy of some kind, actually increase the level of these chemicals. Some studies show that positive thinking or even just a change in environment can actually raise the serotonin levels, without medication. Psychoneuroimminology(What I'm heading into, eventually, hehe) directly studies the connection between mind(psychological) and body(physical), so I don't tend to use "physical" vs. "psychological", because one directly affects the other. If you have a problem with either, the other will show symptoms as well. Using the ssri's can help them to start feeling better, until the cause of the depression(psychological) can be found and dealt with.

In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about
life. IT GOES ON.

gfhegel21
11-01-2001, 05:46 PM
I think the consensus nowadays is that illnesses like depression are MULTI-causal, a combination of genetic, environmental, behavioral etc. factors. The different factors probably will be weighted differently in any particular case. Treatment thus has to be multi-causal, and tailored to the causes of the problem. It's still as much art as science, but a combination of cognitive therapy and medication is probably a good way to help the situation.

That paragraph was for the couple of posts preceding this one.

As for the original poster, there is a lot of good advice so far: the bottom line is make sure she is in competent hands medically, and you ought to consider counseling on how to deal with a depressed person. It's not easy, and the degree of understanding required is very great.

Just don't let anybody tell you that she just needs to "snap out of it" or "stop feeling sorry for herself." Depression is a medical problem, not a personality flaw.

origenx
11-01-2001, 06:58 PM
She probably had some traumatic event in her life that's eatin away at her.

Anti-depressants will mask the pain and many also will kill her s*x drive as well. So she can kill 2 birds w/one stone!

Robinf
11-01-2001, 08:27 PM
wufupaul,

I'm well aware of the studies and those programs on Discover and PBS. I'm also aware of other studies that conflict with those. And, I'm well aware of what doctors follow.

Explain this using your studies: 21 year old is on top of the world--first in class at college, going to the graduate program of choice, family loves him/her, he/she has friends, but this person couldn't loathe him/herself more. Sees self as "being in the way"--there are others worthy of life and he/she should step aside. Survival of the fitest, and he/she sees him/herself as not fit so...

What trauma or mental anything brought this on? The person was never abused, never hit, actually, only had a couple of bullies in grammer that he/she defended him/herself against and was respected for by others, always did well and got along with others, never was really in want for anything.

Many teenagers going through puberty have no reason other than the physical changes going on in order to make them suffer from depression. Many 18 - 21 year olds never had anything bad happen to them to make them suffer from schizophrenia.

Nothing falls into any one category. There are as many that suffer from neurological illness that have not mental reason as those that do have a mental reason. It's naive to think that you can
cure clinical depression through "positive thinking". If the person is unable to think positively, then it's useless. That's like telling someone to just "snap out of it" and you'll be fine, or "shake it off" or "cheer up". Those are pretty useless.

Suffering from clinical depression cannot be behavior modified away. Behavior modification is necessary and helps alleviate the symptoms, but it is not a cure, particularly when the person can't think straight because the moods have taken over because of the chemical imbalance.

The drugs that are out stabalize the chemical seratonin in the brain which regulates mood. True, this chemical can be manipulated in otherwise healthy people through exercise and diet for the blues, but in people who have clinical depression, there's only drug therapy that will regulate this. Then, behavior modification, diet and exercise are implemented, which will help, but they are not the cure. The drugs are not "happy" pills--they stabalize a chemical. Like insulin stabalizes blood sugar levels. No one really knows what "cures" depression--we really only know how to alleviate the symptoms.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

ged
11-02-2001, 03:36 AM
thankyou everyone, very much, for your replies.

i had school yesterday and then went out last night to an 18th with her, so this is the first time ive seen the response ive gotten.

ill reply to everyone who emailed me sometime this afternoon, thanks so much once more. i want to help this girl, but sometimes its so hard to know what to say to her. hopefully ill have a better idea after this.

ged
11-02-2001, 04:44 AM
i just went through all the posts again.

JWT - i agree, thats what worked for me when i was depressed. but i agree with everyone who says that clinical depression (im not sure if thats the term i want. i mean, when its a disease) cant be cured by simply snapping out of it.

cody, i had a look at that page. the suicidal thing was really helpful as well. shes made a few half-hearted attempts to kill herself in the time ive known her, and shes made one serious one before. i feel more confident now if that happens again.

ryu - thanks for your advice. she knows im there for her, but she kids herself that i hate her, that im too good for her, and so on. but im going to stay there for her, as are her friends and parents. and she does see a doctor about her medication, so shes in good hands. except they ****** the dosage up once :| the *******s. that screwed her up for a week,

i think im beginning to agree with people that antidepressants are just bad.

GLW - im getting the hang of paying attention to her warning signs. i just wish i knew how i can help her better. but her backlash ican deal with, when she abuses me, im not so stupid that i think its about me. its about her and her insecurities, which she takes out on me and her friends and family.

everyone else, thanks once more, especially for those who emailed me. im sorry if i bombarded those ppl with too much info - whatever advice you have would be great. just the fact that i got this off my chest has been good for me, and ive already gotten a few ideas on how to help her.

thanks everyone.

take care.

DrunkenMonkey
11-02-2001, 05:44 AM
depression, man. In the end, drugs can't help you. The people around you can't help you, the things you surround yourself with can't help you. Its all about the person, man, thats all its about.

I went through some heavy depression for about 3 years. Seriously, depression is like a hole you dog into the ground around you, and once you're in it over your head, it takes a crap load of will power and patience to dig yourself out.

It's not about telling yourself you're tough, or you can get through the next day, or you can do better than what you are doing now. It's the attitude. It's gotta be like you're a bad ass, you can kick ass, you are a bad ass, you are the master, you are the master, you can kick ass.

Once I got my confidence back I quit the Martial Arts, and now I'm in boxing. :)

"If I knew then what I know now, I would have killed him."

wufupaul
11-02-2001, 09:02 AM
Sorry, Robin, but your last post brought up way too many assumptions and hypothetical situations to address on the forum. If you'd like, you could email me, I wouldn't want to address those issues on this forum, because it would take up way too much space.

P.S-What programs on Discover and P.B.S were you referring to? I rarely watch tv, let me know what shows you saw on there that dealt with it, I'd appreciate it.

In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about
life. IT GOES ON.