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SevenStar
03-18-2001, 04:30 AM
This kind of goes with my previous thread. I know that a lot of martial arts schools do not have vigorous physical training, and most of the practitioners (at least the ones I know) do little training outside of what they get in class. I think this is why arts like kung fu and karate get the bad rap that they do conditiong wise when compared to boxing, muay thai and grappling systems.

"Civilize the mind, make savage the body."

whitelion
03-18-2001, 06:05 AM
Well, we train pretty hard in class, but ultimately it is up to the individual no matter what style you do.

If you have the will and drive to train outside of class, then you will improve because of your hard training. It doesn't matter what style you do, this will be the case.

------------------------------------
Talk softly and carry a big stick.

Kung Lek
03-18-2001, 06:57 PM
in most every traditional Kung fu school the student is xpected to practice what they have been taught in their own time.

If they do not practice they will not learn the Kung fu properly, it is quite simple.

The school will always advise students to practice on their own time, but as it has been mentioned it is up to the student regardless of the art they study.

There are NO arts that can claim 100% of their practioners give 100% of themselves to the art while training or practicing on their own.

peace

Kung Lek

03-18-2001, 09:03 PM
I exercise every day. Becuase of this i my heart beats 40 times each minute. If you train outside of class you can make your body so much stronger.

neijiachuan
03-19-2001, 04:41 AM
I will use Taiji for example to illustrate my feelings about training.

Practicing Taiji by attending class once a week does not lead to significant health, strength, relaxation, endurance, flexibility or any other Taiji abilities. The reason that I feel that I most am apt to benefit at all from my meetings with my teachers is because I study by myself (& with partners when available) outside of class time. When I am in class I plan to work hard and be serious in learning. There are not enough hours in a day for me to get near as many hours of training I would like to with my busy life style and all. But, I make a strong effort to at least go over certain principles, postures and other criteria at least 2-3 times a week. It's not always easy working on things by yourself, somethings require a partner's hand.

neijiachuan

Budokan
03-19-2001, 04:43 PM
What you do in class is absolutely meaningless if you don't practice elsewhere. I've seen people in my school who only do MA when they're in class; they'll never go anywhere or amount to anything. In fact, they often leave after a few weeks or months.

I do martial arts everyday. That's not the same thing as saying I bust my a$$ over it everyday, because I don't. Nor do you need to if you want to become a competent martial artist.

Just curious: What schools or styles don't have vigorous physical training? I mean, except for a strictly internal one (and even they have some), wouldn't that be defeating the purpose?

K. Mark Hoover

nospam
03-22-2001, 02:12 AM
First off, boxing is a sport, gung fu isn't..at least traditionally speaking.

A lot of the gung fu drills and most training exercises will condition the body but not to the same degree as to that of a boxer's regimen.

Gung fu should be trained to step into and end a confrontation in an amazingly short period of time. A boxer will condition themselves to be able to spar progressively better in a ring. There is a difference, and it is a huge difference, physically and philosophically.

That is why I am not a steadfast advocate for free sparring as the primary means of training.

ope
03-22-2001, 05:52 AM
The physical aspect of training in our school is very harsh.. for your first grading the physical aspect you have to do 1000 push ups 1000 squats and stand in horse stance for 1 hour.. and thats just half of the physical there is plenty more im not gonna even bother mention.. this is no joke and all that for your first grading! imagine your second and third etc.. we are expected to practice out side of school but most of the training is done in school.. i for instance train everyday in school... and a little out but i think a person who shows up like once or twice a week should do more trainging outside then some one like me who shows up every day and trains...

SevenStar
03-22-2001, 05:55 PM
I have taken shotokan and TKD, and visited various karate schools in my area. I love karate, but the schools (at least those that I've been to) are lax in the conditioning area. You do warm up stretching, work basics, work new techniques, work kata, then bow out. In my shaolin class, our technique drills are far more vigorous than that. I did train with a japanese friend who was big on intense training and wore me out, but he only trained a few people, it wasn't at a school.

"A wise man speaks because he has something to say; A fool speaks because he has to say something."

SevenStar
03-22-2001, 06:24 PM
Of course, we train to end a confrontation in a reasonably short amout of time, but that doesn't always happen. You may be facing multiple attackers, or you may have to run, to name a couple of scenarios. If you train to survive in the worst possible scenario, you should be well equipped to survive an easier situation.

"A wise man speaks because he has something to say; A fool speaks because he has to say something."

nospam
03-22-2001, 11:01 PM
I full-heartedly agree. Getting into shape, period, is always good. And one should take advantage of the opportunity to train (experience) multifacets or possibilities of real life situations in the kwoon.

I would say though that unless you jog on a fairly regular basis, your ability to run away will not be enhanced by general 'fitness'. I know I am a fit individual, but do not jog (yet), and I have run on occasion and found it to be a totally different beast. Plus (playing devil's advocate) your chance of successfully running away would depend more on your foot speed vs your attackers.

This brings me back to a boxer's training regimen. I would say more boxers would be prone to take up jogging because of long term cardio needs in the ring. Martial artists spar (competition) for a much shorter duration with infrequent consistency. Regardless, increasing one's fitness for any reason is increasing one's wellness. And that's priceless.

Radhnoti
03-27-2001, 04:20 PM
My teacher has us stand in the basic stances while he tells us LONG stories about our styles history. We do lots of stretching. We also do push-ups, crunches, balance drills, and whatever else our teacher is in the mood to do.

-Radhnoti

Robinf
03-27-2001, 06:19 PM
Hey, nospam,

At my school, we've found wind sprint workouts to help our cardio for sparring. Jogging has helped me in kung fu.

As for training in our school. Most folks don't train on their own outside of class. Many ask why they're still out of breath and they've been studying for a year or more. Well, one hour a lesson, twice a week (the typical frequency) just doesn't do it. I tell them that if they practice at home with complete intensity, they'll be able to go further in class. They agree. But never do it. Class time, to us, is for learning, not for practicing. We learn, then we get practice time in class, but things we've learned previously are expected to be practiced on our own time. We go over the basics as a warm-up, then work on something new, or something old in a new way, or fine tune things.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

SilentShadow
03-29-2001, 06:45 AM
I found that the conditioning that I do in class time has done a lot for me, even though class is only twice a week. But we do a lot of conditioning in class, probably 30-40 minutes worth. My sifu teaches in a very traditonal fashion....his sifu is a Shao Lin monk, and that carries over into my class.
Recently, I've begun doing conditioning on my own, five days a week, and I haven't seen much of a difference yet. But I know that it's simply a matter of time and consitency, so I'll have to get back to you on the rest.
One thing's for sure....the more you train, be it conditioning, form or drills (or anything else for that matter) the better you'll be for it.

"The way lays claim to no merit, therefore merit never deserts it." - Lao Tzu