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sticky fingers
11-15-2001, 04:03 AM
Husband guilty of karate murder

From AAP
16nov01

A MAN has been found guilty of murdering his wife nearly 20 years ago by using a karate pressure point on her neck.

Jeffrey Rose, 56, was today found guilty after a month-long trial in the NSW Supreme Court.

The body of Christine Rose, 32, was found dumped under a bridge outside Armidale, in northern NSW, in May 1982.

A three-centimetre bruise to Mrs Rose's neck was the only evidence of an unlawful killing.

The jury heard that pressure to the vagus nerve on the neck could cause the heart to slow or stop.

The jury, which reached its verdict after deliberating for about eight hours, was told Rose was unable to accept his relationship with his wife was over and killed her out of jealousy.

The prosecution said Rose killed his wife when she came over for dinner one night to his flat, where she was to leave plants, her pet budgerigar and her car while she went on a trip to Brisbane.

Rose, a brown belt in karate, had pleaded not guilty to killing his wife, claiming that while she did come to his flat, she left with an unknown man to go to a bowling club.

Rose was remanded in custody for sentencing submissions on December 20.

The difference between unclear war and nuclear war is in the way you use the U.N...

Budokan
11-15-2001, 07:54 AM
He must have had one poor defense lawyer to have something stupid like this hung on him...

K. Mark Hoover

jon
11-15-2001, 08:27 AM
Exactly how does a "brown belt" in Karate of all systems know how to kill via a pressure point.
Infact by the sounds of the story it was a pretty advanced pressure point and must have been struck the right way.
Either his teacher was a nut who loved showing new students how to kill or something is rather fishy here.

you cant win all the time but you cant always lose either...

Fish of Fury
11-15-2001, 09:27 AM
i just got back from Armidale.
guess i'm lucky to be alive

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I'm just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!"

Stranger
11-15-2001, 02:31 PM
I used to train with two of Donald Trump's bodyguards for a time when I lived back in NJ. One night they were escorting Trump across the casino floor, when a cranked up biker who had lost one hand too many went berserk on the casino floor. He removed the metal top of one of the casino ashtrays and was running around the place hitting people on the head with it. As he approached Trump's group, the bodyguards took him down and "hamburger piled" on him to keep the biker pinned. When the security team arrived the biker was dead. During the autopsy they found a finger print bruise on one spot of his neck. The police quickly learned that one of the bodyguards had trained/taught at a martial art school that had the word "NINJA" in its name (it was merely for marketting- they actually taught kickboxing and TKD). So the bodyguard gets arrested for putting the "touch of death" on the biker. Medical examiners later concluded that the biker died of a crank induced heart attack. The mysterious finger print bruise was caused by the EMT repeatedly checking for pulse at the carotid artery. The bodyguard eventually had charges dropped against him.

Just an example of somebody almost getting legally railroaded for a technique WELL beyond their ability to pull off.

I don't get mad.
I get stabby.

Merryprankster
11-15-2001, 02:39 PM
This is a joke, right?

wu_de36
11-15-2001, 04:11 PM
maybe this will wake a few people up as to what extremes some people will go to deny us our right to self-defense.

sticky fingers
11-15-2001, 04:50 PM
Whether you are a white belt or a black belt, in the eyes of the law you are a 'lethal weapon' if you have practiced or even just joined a martial art. keep this in mind the next time you ever need to use your 'skills'...

full story:
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,3265737%255E3163,00.html

here's an exerpt:


Son recalls murder day

By LORNA KNOWLES
17nov01

THE last memory Scott Rose has of his late mother Kristine is of her lying unconscious, convulsing and blue, on the laundry floor of his father's flat.

He was four years old and recalls creeping down the back stairs of the unit, contrary to his father's instructions, when he was confronted by the scene.

"I saw her, she was lying on the ground down in the laundry, which was down the stairs, out the back, and she was just lying there shaking and she was all blue," Scott, 23, told The Daily Telegraph.

"I was shocked. My dad saw me and he grabbed me, got me inside real quick and flogged me. He'd told us not to go outside."

Almost 20 years after the death of Mrs Rose in April 1982, her husband Jeffrey Rose went on trial charged with her murder.

But the jury did not hear Scott's harrowing testimony.

Instead, the prosecution relied on the evidence of a geologist, who found "remarkable similarities" between dust taken from the wheels of Mrs Rose's car and the site where her body was found.

The Crown alleged Rose applied a lethal karate pressure to a point on his wife's neck, causing her heart to stop. He then used her car to transport her body from his flat to a remote creek.

The difference between unclear war and nuclear war is in the way you use the U.N...

Budokan
11-15-2001, 04:51 PM
Yet another example of how little the general public actually knows about martial arts, other than what they see on television or in the movies.
It's frightening that just because the see the word "ninja" they would immediately arrest someone.

Come to think of it, not so surprising. People are pretty stupid when it comes to MA. (Heck, they're pretty stupid in general.) Education is the key, and the MA community has to shoulder some of the blame for letting idiotic myths perpetuate throughout the population just for commercial/marketing reasons.

K. Mark Hoover

chen zhen
11-15-2001, 09:59 PM
then i was right. karate sucks after all :p ;) :rolleyes:

gazza99
11-15-2001, 11:37 PM
Someone stated the pressure point was advanced? Accually the point on the neck that effect the vagus nerve AND the blood pressure via the carotid sinus as well -is know as stomach 9 (lateral line accross from the top of your adams apple between the sternocleitomastoid muscle and the trachea. ) -See diagram on my website-
Its very easy to strike, the direction is 45 degrees towards the backbone instant result can be KO from the vagus nerve and/or the carotid sinues effect on the blood pressure, of course if struck hard enough it will kill, especially if the recipiant has heart problems. Also delayed death is possible apparently their is a plague of some sort you can break loose to cause "internal carotid sinus disintegration" which can be fatel even 7 years after the strike. A knife edge strike works well as well as a finger strike.

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com (http://www.pressurepointfighting.com)

SanHeChuan
11-16-2001, 06:38 AM
If you really wanted to kill someone would you try a technique that you could never practice for real, weren't sure you would be able to do, and only worked in theory.

Maybe he thought; hey why not, I give it a try and if it doesn't work I’ll say she had a bug on her. And if it works whose really gonna believe I killed her with my finger. ;)

===============================

"Civilize the mind but make savage the body"

Hou fa xian zhi
-start later, but reach first.

jimmy23
11-16-2001, 09:54 AM
ttt


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

old jong
11-16-2001, 12:44 PM
Yes, even a poor brown karate brown belt can kill "by accident" if he trained hard enough. Most of them know how to hit that spot anyway.It is not a secret.
And, I know it was not "tested" in the UFC but dont you think it was not in some other times and places? Hitting that spot can produce some effects.It is a well known fact, not theory!
Maybe the real reason for this is because it happened 20 years ago! When karate used to work!... :rolleyes:

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

SanHeChuan
11-16-2001, 08:42 PM
If he never actual practiced killing people with it before then it is just theory. How would he even know IF he could do it right. It takes years to get really good at the basic, and thats with constant practice.

===============================

"Civilize the mind but make savage the body"

Hou fa xian zhi
-start later, but reach first.

old jong
11-17-2001, 12:38 AM
I dont think that kind of strike is able to kill all the times but it creates a reaction or reflex in the brain sending a message that the person is having a heart attack.The body then reacts and defends itself by lowering the blood pressure causing loss of counciousness as a side effect.
The boxer Muhammad Ali semmed to have some knowledge of this because he often punched his opponents in that area getting some knockouts in the process.
If you dont believe me,try it on your little sister or somebody.It won't be theory anymore.

;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

zen_celt
11-17-2001, 01:10 AM
In Kansas, state law supposedly states that anyone above the rank of brown belt in any style of MA who is found guilty of killing someone, even in self-defense, can be charged with pre-meditated murder. What's with that?

Also, and this one is really strange, someone was telling me that if you are a black belt in Karate you cannot use your hands in a fight unless you wish to risk getting charged with assault, manslaughter, or murder.

I'm a bit skeptical of the second one but the first one is sadly true. What crap!
-Z

"The thorn *****s only those who would harm the rose."

SanHeChuan
11-17-2001, 01:57 AM
boy i would dim mak my way right out of that gas chamber. You think you can hold me, I know shaolin-do. :D

===============================

"Civilize the mind but make savage the body"

Hou fa xian zhi
-start later, but reach first.

Budokan
11-17-2001, 02:08 AM
This news about Kansas doesn't come as much of a surprise to me. I've been to Kansas and seen what they have there in the way of an intelligent and educated population. :rolleyes: It's about on a par with the bunghole state (Mississippi) I'm currently in.

I still maintain, however, that we as MA hold some responsibility for the outlandish beliefs many in the general public have about our art. Some of us do little or nothing to challenge the beliefs held by many people, willing to let them go on thinking that what they see in the movies is anything even remotely approaching practical and responsible MA. Education is the key to swinging this around to a more reasonable frame of mind. A little more common sense on our part, and a whole LOT less of stupid marketing ploys might be a step in the right direction.

K. Mark Hoover

old jong
11-17-2001, 02:18 AM
I guess that we, in the "traditionnal" m.a. dont really need to worry about this too much because it won't be long that even judges will believe that only Muay thai/boxing/grappling/bjj/etc can be of some effectiveness!...If they read this forum,that is! :rolleyes: ;) We can't be pronounced guilty of using some stuff that does'nt work. Don't you think? :p

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

jimmy23
11-17-2001, 02:33 AM
Bunghole state? Thats not very nice....


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

Fish of Fury
11-17-2001, 06:57 AM
"Maybe the real reason for this is because it happened 20 years ago! When karate used to work!... "

LOL :D

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I'm just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!"