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View Full Version : Kung fu vs grappling (What I think)



Richie
11-05-2001, 01:52 AM
Ok listen, I'm tired of hearing that grappling is better than kung fu. It is not. Grappling is a good SPORT, in a REAL fight I will most certainly put ALL of my money on kung fu.

Why?

Well, first off, kung fu is very old. It was and still is use in the Chinese military. In the old days there was no rules.

I have fought and sparred against bjj guys and had no problems. You could argue that the bjj guys I fought where not good or lying about their skill level. Maybe that is true, I don't agree.

For example, I was at my college in the dorms. A guy came to the room and started talking about martial arts. The subject of kung fu came up. He said that he studied bjj for 3 years and he could beat any kung fu guy. I tolded him I did kung fu and I wanted him to prove it. We cleared the floor and started. I said we can start on the ground, because of the lack of room. He said no it's ok. I also told him that it would be a heavy hitting sparring match and anything goes. He agree. We started, and many atempts, he couldn't get me down. We were bumping into things so I said lets do this on the ground. We restarted with im in my guard. I layed there snapping him in the face, and doing finger strikes above his eyes not to hurt him. I think he went through five pairs of eyes. He then laid his head against my chest and tried to take control of my hands. However, I would chop and punch the back and side of his neck. We did this for about five minutes. Next I said I'll give you the mount. So he mounted me and started throwing punchs. I blocked most of them with wing chun like blocks, and popped him in the chin a few times and lightly finger striked his throat. I also elbowed his thighs, and punched him in the groin. After 4 groin punches, he quit. He said that the left arm and leg were a little numb for 2 weeks, because of the neck strikes. You say this guy wasn't any good, but most of my fights with bjj guys have been this way.

If I'm walking down the street and a someone grabs me and takes me down, I'm going to use EVERYTHING in my power to get him off of me (Kung fu or not). I'll grab a rock or a stick and hit him with it. I'll take that pen out of my pocket and stab him in the neck with it. On the street you don't know if the guy attacking you has a weapon, bass knockles or what. So, why would you want to get that close?

I think that is the reason why traditional jujitsu like japanese jujitsu focuses more on throws, standing locks, and suboing their attacker. You don't know if he has a dagger, stick, or rock on him. You want to keep him at arms length, at least.

BJJ is great in the ring, but on the street I'll use my kung fu. If one of you BJJ guys want to fight, be my guest, but remember there might be a bic pen in my pocket with your neck's name on it. :mad: Sorry for poor grammar and spelling.

Martial Joe
11-05-2001, 01:54 AM
My thoughts...

Kung Fu is for stand up...grappling arts are for grappling...

Train them both...become a great well rounded fighter...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

Martial Joe
11-05-2001, 02:04 AM
Dang those bass knockles...


****it that is worse then me...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

Archangel
11-05-2001, 02:31 AM
Even I'm tired of this!!!!

LEGEND
11-05-2001, 03:16 AM
RALEK...is this you playing another role as a troll???

A

SevenStar
11-05-2001, 05:55 AM
*insert dead horse pic here*

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

anerlich
11-05-2001, 06:04 AM
Richie, your stories are nearly as good as those from Gary at pressurepointfighting.com.

Richie
11-05-2001, 06:07 AM
Do you want to find out if what I'm saying is true?

SevenStar
11-05-2001, 06:33 AM
them sounds like fightin' words :)

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

Mr. Nemo
11-05-2001, 06:34 AM
I can think of few things less intimidating than Richie Z trying to act hard over the internet.

gazza99
11-05-2001, 06:42 AM
Thanks for the compliment abman, but richies experiances are a bit different than mine.As ive never been taken to the ground.
If your smart As# was in my area I could of course give you a free demo. (perhaps me trying to act hard over the net is less threating Mr. Nemo?) Just giving it some contrast for you.. :rolleyes:
Gary

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com (http://www.pressurepointfighting.com)

Ryu
11-05-2001, 08:39 AM
Here's a question. If I came up and said, "yes I've done some BJJ and judo. I think it's pretty good, but I like other arts too. Can you teach me some of your art?"

Would you say "sure, I hope you can teach me some of your stuff too"

or
"Let's go full contact swinging! Let's fight!
I'll stick pens in your eyes, **** grappling man!!!"

sheesh.
Sorry, I'm tired tonight anyway..

Ryu

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimuraosawa.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

LEGEND
11-05-2001, 03:20 PM
RITCHIE...I do...please pick me...meeeeeeeee. My school is CARL RUNK's Karate...I'm a grappling instructor...if u ever get out of JAPAN...swing by the DC area and we can have a MMA thang. Later.

A

Jaguar Wong
11-05-2001, 05:43 PM
I'm no expert, but I always thought that Kung Fu was supposed to have at least some anti grappling in it. I'm not saying to the level of winning any Sport JJ tournaments, but at least some exposure, so you at least know what to look for when facing any opponent. Back in the day, even the Shuai Chiao guys thought grappling was superior (even though it's got strikes all up in the style :)). They had that popular quote "One year wrestling beats Three years boxing".

I'm not saying I believe this, but they were able to practice their techniques more closely to the way they would actually be used than some of the "boxers" that neglected to practice any grappling (not just Chin Na, I'm talking about all the throws, grabs, takedowns, etc). Just like Jigoro Kano's guys beating the Traditional JJ guys, because he removed the "deadly" stuff, and drilled the basics to a level where they could effectively use them to defeat their opponents.

I personally use what little grappling I know to avoid/escape grappling situations, but I also include the striking stuff as part of that. I'm looking at my arsenal as a whole, not just the grappling portion when it hits the ground. That's why I really like watching when guys can effectively strike from inside someone's guard, because they're not caught in a mindset that says you have to use grappling to pass the guard, they just set up a good base, and start choosing the best targets, like they were still standing. Who knows, they may be wide open for a sweep, or a submission, but I haven't seen enough of that to know if it's happened before.

What was my point again? Oh yeah, neglecting, or even dismissing (grappling is a good Sport, but I do Kung Fu. -- I thought Kung Fu was complete...grappling and all?) any training in grappling (whether it's supposed to be in your style or not), is just leaving a possible weakness in your personal style. I'm not saying you'll easily be over powered and killed by a grappling mugger, but I just don't see why people can't look past a style's appearance, or the "bad apples", and actually look for something that they may be able to use.

Jaguar Wong

"If you learn to balance a tack hammer on your head
then you learn to head up a balanced attack!"
- The Sphinx

gfhegel21
11-05-2001, 05:49 PM
Good post Jaguar.

Kristoffer
11-05-2001, 06:13 PM
Ryu: LOL :D I was acctually thinking the same thing.. but that guy had it comming if he said "can beat ALL kungfu dudes) :rolleyes:

~K~
"maybe not in combat..... but think of the chicks man, the chicks!"

Ryu
11-05-2001, 08:07 PM
haha,

True. I wouldn't ever say that. I also don't believe it. (beating ALL of any practitioner...)


Ryu

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimuraosawa.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

Richie
11-06-2001, 01:28 AM
Sure. I'll be in NJ next summer. E-mail me your info.

SevenStar
11-06-2001, 01:35 AM
As always, if this happens, get it documented...

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

Richie
11-06-2001, 01:44 AM
I'm not trying to act hard. It's my kung fu pride. I know what I did and what I can do. I'm afraid to back what I say. If I have to take a trip to where ever to prove it, I will.

Richie
11-06-2001, 01:46 AM
I'm not trying to act hard. It's my kung fu pride. I know what I did and what I can do. I'm NOT afraid to back what I say. If I have to take a trip to where ever to prove it, I will.

SevenStar
11-06-2001, 01:47 AM
hmmm...Can you go to Frederick, MD?

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

Wongsifu
11-06-2001, 01:51 AM
sevenstar you naughty boy you :D :D :D :D :D leave poor rolls out of this

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

SevenStar
11-06-2001, 01:59 AM
What? :D He said it. I just proposed a destination

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

anerlich
11-06-2001, 04:23 AM
Richie,

I don't particularly care whether your story is true or not.

Gary,

I've met Erle Montaigue already and doubt you could show me anything that he hasn't.

gazza99
11-06-2001, 04:26 AM
abman
Great!! That must mean you have many years of training under Erle, its funny then you should be such an A@@hole to a fellow WTBA member and/or Erles students/teachers.

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com (http://www.pressurepointfighting.com)

largeguy
11-06-2001, 04:51 AM
Hi you right, Sport is totally different from traditional Kungfu.

largeguy
11-06-2001, 05:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ryu:
haha,

True. I wouldn't ever say that. I also don't believe it. (beating ALL of any practitioner...)


Ryu

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimuraosawa.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."[/quote]

Hi Ryu,

Do you belive someone could beat you down just 1 second with Kungfu.

LEGEND
11-06-2001, 03:33 PM
RITCHIE...don't need to...I have an open policy...the school I attend is Carl Runk's in Fairfax, VA. You can look it up in the phone book...and if u're serious...email me when u're down...we have clowns come by all the time. You'll just be another one that backs down. LOL. Oh ask for ANH( that's me ).

A

Merryprankster
11-06-2001, 05:18 PM
Richie,

Go read my post (shameless, and not humble guys, sorry... it's the only one I know of) on the thread you started about organizing a Kung-Fu tournament for Kung Fu folks only. There is a post in there about sports vice fighting and the MMA stance on that.

If you don't believe it, at least respect the viewpoint and recognize it's good points. If you CAN'T respect it, at least tell us why.

Jockwurst
11-06-2001, 05:24 PM
Why don't we just rename this place "The Kung Fu vs. Grappling and NHB Forum"?

Ryu
11-06-2001, 05:27 PM
LOL,
Well largeguy, I hope not! :D

I try to avoid saying I can beat everybody or any one style. Too many people in the world for that attitude.

Ryu

http://home.vobis.net/user/roy/anime/images/streetfighter15.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

Grappling-Insanity
11-06-2001, 11:22 PM
One time I was talking to this guy at my dorm room. I told him I did BJJ, he said he did Kung-Fu. He then asked to spar, I didnt really want to but I was being nice. He offered to go to the ground but I thought nah I wonder if I can take down a Kung-Fu person. For some reason he wasnt going down chalk it up to the fact he had very sharp finger nails that scratched my neck. next we started from my guard, I thought cool this will be fun. But he goes all crazy and starts making these fu(ked up sounds. I ask him if he's alright but then he attacks me!!!. I figure he must be mentally unstable so I say I give up. He then wants me to start from mount. I tell him I dont really want I've only been studying BJJ for 2 months and was lying before. He tells me non-sense I wont hurt you relax guy. I vaguely remember how to hold mount from my last class. This is where his sharp finger nails come into play. He starts poking me in the eyes with them while i'm temporarily blinded he pokes me in the throat repeatedly. Confused I give up, whenever I see him now I tell him what a good fighter he is so he doesnt scratch/poke me in the eye's. :p :D :rolleyes:

Richie
11-07-2001, 03:00 AM
Ha ha ha! That's good. I know you suck at BJJ, so think you need to go back to your clown school. I think you need more time on the mat. Hey GI, I bet it's hard being a JACKA$$. :rolleyes: :D ;)

Grappling-Insanity
11-07-2001, 03:49 AM
No actually its quite easy. Look you yourself accomplished this with little to no effort. Or maybe lots of effort who knows :D :D

[This message was edited by Grappling-Insanity on 11-07-01 at 07:03 PM.]

jimmy23
11-07-2001, 04:20 AM
lord, I think spitting backfist has returned under a new name...


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist