PDA

View Full Version : weed and meditation



buddhistfist
11-16-2001, 08:51 PM
Hello, I am having a little problem and if you guys could help me out I would really appreciate it.How does mixing meditation/chi gong with smoking marijuana awaken the kundalini? I have a friend who smokes alot of weed but he wants to start meditating again,would you advise against this?Also, if he used to meditate (got to a higher level than me) but he stopped and started to smoke weed would he be in danger of the kundalini awakening? Is there anything he can do to make sure the kundalini doesn't awaken,if he wants to meditate and smoke weed?(I figure after he begins meditating again after a while he will stop smoking) also, would I be wrong to teach him some new meditations while he is a weed smoker?

joedoe
11-17-2001, 11:33 PM
I have heard that smoking weed and spiritual practice are not good to mix, primarily because drug use can achieve similar states of conciousness but as it is an artificial means of getting there the person never learns to do it for themselves.

I have also heard another theory relating to the way drugs can affect the chakras.

Either way, my advice is that it is best not to mix them.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

prana
11-18-2001, 01:12 AM
nicely said

Nexus
11-18-2001, 02:37 AM
It is my personal experience that drug use and spiritual practice should be mixed only with extreme caution. Usually the purpose of mixing a drug/herb is to achieve a certain type of experience or receive a certain kind of vision.

I don't advocate the use of herbs such as marijuana mixed with spiritual practices such as meditation. Perhaps your friend should make it clear why he wants to do meditation and make it clear why he wants to smoke marijuana. Then see how similar those two reasons are, and if they are both in support of one another.

- Nexus

Repulsive Monkey
11-18-2001, 01:38 PM
This topic is a perrenial in this forum, and for what it's worth I'll just say a little on the topic and then shut up. Drugs a dn meditation is hazardous and I feel it is improper...no...potentially lethal for anyone to condone or promote mixing the two. drug usage while in altered states adds the element of having less control over nuances in consciousness. Enlightenment is best reached without drugs as it is the easiest and most safest method. Drugs are a veil to the normal functions of the mind, and thus completely go against most meditation systems which involve the indiviual in trying to reduce the ego. How can one reduce the ego when most drugs have an embellishing effect? Imagine someone trying to reduce and passify the ego when on coke!! It doesn't pay to add more complications to ones practice when these subjects are diffcult enough to practice anyway.

Prana do you wanna add to this tread?????

Fish of Fury
11-18-2001, 11:35 PM
i agree with what's been said so far.
as weed may relax/alter your control, you may get energy movement without any understanding of it or ability to control it, which can be damaging.

there's stories that Hitler was deeply into the occult, and tried using many drugs/chemicals to enhance spiritual development/perception.
and we wouldn't want your friend to wind up like him... :(

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I'm just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!"

sultanpro
11-28-2001, 05:09 PM
Ok, but are we talking about being high and doing meditation? or someone who smoke's in general?

I can understand being smoked out and doing meditation is not good, but what if you are
not high at the time of doing the meditation?
Is it bad if you are a smoker period!!?

Skard 1

Its not what goes in a man that defile's him, its what comes out.

Nexus
11-28-2001, 06:52 PM
It is not part of the Taoist perspective to become too attached to any one thing. Not being able to stop smoking altogether would be considered the inability to become disattached from smoking as it has become an essential habitiual trait of who we are. At this point we no longer have the willpower to just stop if we choose to, and so often we stop trying to stop altogether.

This is why in the tao te ching we see something along the lines of this:

To be sick of sickness is a sign of good health, therefore the wise man grows sick of sickness, and sick of being sick of sickness,
'til he is sick no more.

It is not healthy for the mind/body or the spirit to be allowing toxins to enter the body on a regular basis. Often why fasts are done to clean out toxins from the body as well that have accumulated over time through misuse and mistreatment of our bodies in our aging processes, as most everyone has done something along these lines in one lifetime or another :)

- Nexus

Ma_Xu_Zha
11-28-2001, 08:00 PM
marijiuana doesnt kill brain cells but makes the cell walls harder and thicker over time thus not allowing the proper nutrient and o2 to reach. there are long term effect including memory loss, moodyness, sleeping disorders, appetitie problems, withdrawl and tolerance effects.

It also de-motivates people.

wisdom mind
11-28-2001, 09:07 PM
nuf said

burn the wikked

shaolinboxer
11-28-2001, 10:40 PM
It also motivates people, decrease stress, helps with sleeping problems, increases appetite, decrease sinus pressure, and stimulates creativity.

Nexus
11-28-2001, 11:15 PM
Meditation can do all of those things also Lyle.

- Nexus

Ma_Xu_Zha
12-05-2001, 11:13 AM
As someone who smoked weed in the past, I wouldnt say its all to negative-

I does relax in some ways, I can help ease pain, and meditate to some degree.

However, it is illegal, it is a poison, it can cause lung, throat, neck and brain cancers. It is true there are thousnads of chemicals besides THC within that makes it stronger than cigarettes.

True mastery comes not from external sources such as week, becareful of the illusion.

scotty1
12-07-2001, 04:53 AM
Everything in moderation. Didn't some old Chinese masters used to smoke opium? Or is that just some ridiculous rumour?
And man, if they can smoke opium and be a master, I'm pretty sure you can have a few tokes on a j and still pursue your interests effectively. Depends whether you're in control of the drug or vice versa. What do you think?
(I would like to know about the opium thing, not that I'm even considering that:p )

Nexus
12-07-2001, 09:31 AM
Depends if you are interested in keeping a clear mind during your kungfu training and meditation training. When one makes the decission that they want to pursue that path they put substance usage behind them but until then there is no point talking about it as you can very well justify the use of mind-altering substances your entire life, never able to face the real reasons why you do them.

Repulsive Monkey
12-07-2001, 01:07 PM
Someone said that old masters indulged in Opium in the past. That is true but they certainly didn't do it to improve themselves, they did becasue they were addicts. The absolute truth is that internal practice requires a lessening of attatchment so that one can attain a clear, undiluted and natural grasp of the nature of the mind. Any substance of strength ingested or absorbed into the body will affect that initial reasoning. And whether it feels nice, blissful, super-sensitive and sexy, it will ultimately only do one single thing, and that is, DETRACT AND DEVIATE from ones initial quest. It will never help you along the path to internal cultivation. Thats a fact.!!Lao Tzu quotes in the Tao Te Ching " Education requires that you gain daily, the Tao requires that you lose daily". Meditation is about ridding oneself of falseness and achieving clarity of what is real. Do you honestly believe that allowing drugs into your internal cultivation you are getting closer to realisation??? To advance in this path one must ultimately when the time is right realise that drugs just like many other factors are the obvious things that need to be got rid of. If you don't feel the need to let go of them yet then you are not ready to gain realisation yet. I know this sounds terribly black and white, but it is considered to be the truth just by me but of those who have gone before us and achieved spiritual enlightenment.

prana
12-08-2001, 02:54 AM
Repulsive Monkey

sadu ! sadu ! sadu !

Also to add, one of the sila

one shall not take any intoxicants

dezhen2001
12-09-2001, 07:20 AM
Hi - i'm new to this forun but i find that this question gets asked many times on many different forums - even in magazines and things......here is my opinion.

When practising Meditation especially, you are trying to reach a state of mindfulness so you become aware of yourself and everything. Qigong wise so that you can feel any tension in your body and let it go.
Using weed (from my experience) or any other drug puts you in a state of mindlessness - which is actually very different. Although some people may say that the 'effects' are similar, actually they are not.

You need to have a very clear and open mind to reach any stage of development in martial arts/qigong/meditation, so i don't think it is advisible to mix training with drugs.

thanks,
david :)

hazhardy
08-02-2005, 05:50 AM
ok, so here's my theory,,,
smoking marajuanha (or however it's spelt) may increase your chi count. . .
the other day i smoked some and had chi rushing all over my body like i had never felt before. it was insane. has anyone else felt this sh!t?
cool.
the hza

Jason Martell
08-02-2005, 07:19 AM
How do you know that was CHI? And not just the effects of the marijuana? I know when I was a young lad the the first few times I smoked it, I got a weird sensation through my whole body?

hskwarrior
08-02-2005, 09:21 AM
wierd sensations? :confused:

Like what?

and where can i get some purple paralyzer?

"don't give me no bammer weed, don't smoke that $hit in the SFC (Sucka Free City---or San Francisco, same thing!)

big props to all herbalists, its gods gift to man.

matter of fact, hold on ------that hit was for my folks (cough! cough! Choke) god******, call the ambulance my head done fell off.

hsk

Judge Pen
08-02-2005, 09:21 AM
Good theory. I've heard the stronger the drug, the more intense the chi experience. Just watch out for acid as you can also experience a bad chi day as well.

I wonder if the UFC will catch on? Smoke some weed and let the chi balls fly in the octagon.

TaiChiBob
08-02-2005, 10:20 AM
Greetings..

Like any herb, cannibis has useful attributes.. routine recreational use, however, will contradict the more useful benefits.. suggested use is as a "sacrement", occasional and with reverence for the energies it enhances.. i've known too many stoners that eventually decline into couch potatos hypnotized by the music and their own hands.. stronger psychoactive substances (natural, of course) should only be used infrequently, with clarity and purpose, not for recreation.. mood or mind altering substances are generally not conducive to good training, but may serve a more esoteric goal.. that, ultimately, compliments one's journey.. in such matters consult herbalists, masters, and shamans.. and, use good common sense..

Be well..

TonyM.
08-02-2005, 12:26 PM
As it messes with your equilibrium, I'd say weed is not good for chi circulation. If it happens to relieve some tight muscles and allows some trapped chi to escape I would say that was a fortunate happenstance.

herb ox
08-02-2005, 01:22 PM
it's funny... the ol' cannabis thread pops up now and again. I'd have to agree most with TaiChiBob - moderation is the key to success with just about anything.

Chinese medicine acknowledges the mind as a possible genesis of a disease state. As such, the use of 'jah herb' can relax a mind fixated on events and release emotional states and thus relax the body - when the body is relaxed, the Qi will flow smoothly. On the other end of the spectrum, cannabis is not for everyone, as some will become more tense or distracted, thus disrupting the smooth flow of Qi. Herb is best taken as a sacrament with a clear mind. A clouded mind will only grow more cloudy after smoking...

Just my dime-bag's worth (...oops, did I say that? I meant 2 cents...)

peace
herb ox

Jason Martell
08-02-2005, 02:02 PM
I agree with the ,ast post whole heardedtly. It can make you way more tense, or even nervous if attacked on the street.
On the side note
Did you guys know that it prevents heart disease and diabetes. That was just rescently discovered by scientists. I read about it in either Popular Science or Discover Magazine. I can't remember which, but I know it was last month.

herb ox
08-02-2005, 03:33 PM
hmmm... you're sure it wasn't High Times? :D

GeneChing
08-02-2005, 04:38 PM
...now what was I sayin'? Oh nevermind...

There's been a lot of work in psychotropics and zen - it's a surprisingly long tradition.
One of Tricycle's best selling issues was there psychedelic special (http://www.tricycle.com/catalog/backissues/163-1.html)...hmmm, maybe that's what Kung Fu Tai Chi needs... ;) Seriously, the best work on the subject now in my mind is Zig Zag Zen (http://www.zigzagzen.com/) - which contains essays from many Zen thinkers and psychotropic advernturers. My personal take on the matter tends to agree with many of those writers in that volume - students who indulge in psychedelics do tend to progress faster to a point. But, and this is a big one, they tend to plateau and never make the big final leaps. There are exceptions, of course. Who can forget the Zen Haiku master Bassho and his odes to marijuana? I think there is something fundamental in practice that cannot be short cut, just like in Kung fu. Sure, an external 'dan' like steroids may get you somewhere faster, but without the spiritual underpinning of hard work, it lets you down in the end. Then, there is Master Shuzan’s famous answer to the koan "What is the mind of the ancient buddhas?" - his answer - "three catties of hemp".

Sorry, what were we talking about again?

herb ox
08-03-2005, 01:15 AM
let's see... whoa! three catties of hemp is roughly equal to 58 ounces! :eek:


Better start your Zen practice now!





herb ox

PangQuan
08-03-2005, 03:00 PM
anyone know any cool taoist pipe fighting forms?

qiphlow
08-06-2005, 05:46 PM
psychoactive drugs are great for showing us what's possible, BUT.......
the drug experience is dependent on the drug. we have within us these possibilities already, we only have to figue out how to turn on the switch without the chemical assistance! pot can show you the door, but can you go thru without the weed, or will you just smoke all the time and hang out on the doorstep? all the good stuff can be yours, if you just allow it for yourself.

sk8fool
08-06-2005, 08:11 PM
"It's like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all the heavenly glory."
-Bruce Lee

hellhound
08-06-2005, 08:17 PM
As they say too much of anything can be bad. so like was just stated on certain occasions it can help alleviate things that may block one's qi.

hazhardy
08-07-2005, 01:54 AM
How do you know that was CHI? And not just the effects of the marijuana? I know when I was a young lad the the first few times I smoked it, I got a weird sensation through my whole body?

Because i practice chi-kung any way, and i know what it feels like to have chi running through the body, however, not as strong as i felt after i had smoked,, i have reduced my smoking to once a week, so hopefully, with a bit of chi-kung in between, that chi will be racing around like a bat outta hell,,

the weird sensations someone asked about was just the buzzing/fuzzy feeling of chi all over and the room spinning, haha.
cool.
the hza

sk8fool
08-07-2005, 09:10 AM
what kind of TCM can you use to clean out the lungs from the effects of too much herb smoke?

Scott R. Brown
08-08-2005, 01:27 AM
I agree with qiphlow!!

If we think of certain areas of the mind as located behind a locked door, psycho-active substances are a key that may allow us to see what is on the other side of the door. Once we see what is on the other side of the door we can become preoccupied with reliving the experience and continue using artificial means to regain temporary access. The benefit is increased knowledge; the negative consequence, our dependence on artificialities for the experience and the negative physical after effects.

It is like looking out a window and seeing a beautiful sunny day, but not being allowed out of doors! I have knowledge of the beautiful day, but I am not out IN it! Perhaps on occasion (through artificial means) I am allowed outside to enjoy the nice day, but my excursion is only temporary! I may be left with a lasting impression, but I gain no significant permanent benefit. It is the free access to the out of doors that provides me with long lasting benefits. With free access I may venture outside whenever I wish and stay as long as I like, this it true freedom!

Consistent smooth Chi flow (barring illness or injury) is an effect of the mind. That is, it is a consequence of a mental state of being! It is not the knowledge of what is on the other side of the door that cultivates or sustains this mental state, nor is it fleeting, temporary experiences gained through artificial means. It is the ability to exist within this mental condition as a state of our being that sustains healthy consistent chi flow.

cbishop
08-08-2005, 03:03 PM
yo.. what bob said.

i used to wonder whether high level martial artists smoked weed too.
according to my training brother (who IS in the know concerning IMA
of taiwan) many if not most internal martial artists use some type of drug.

i'll never forget the eve i passed a doob to a certain well known ima teacher
who took a pull and then as we talked, complimented the quality (indicating
to me that he was somewhat of a conessieur)

i'd post names, but it's not my place...

gene posted on this subject, but didn't really indicate whether or not
he smokes/smoked. looks like a stoner to me! ;)

TaiChiBob
08-09-2005, 05:04 AM
Greetings..

I have to agree that herbs, used too frequently, can become a hindrance to progress.. psychedelics are like an uncontrolled whirlwind tour of the potential of the the mind.. skilled meditation allows you be be in control of exploring your potential.. while herbs (ganja) may relax you sufficiently to have a decent meditational experience, it should be a "finger pointing at the moon" of possibility.. that you should be able to control your own experience without dependence on external methods..

I do not advocate use of mind altering substances as a substitute for self controlled experiences.. they may offer a glimpse of the potential you seek, like a travel brochure, but.. they are not the journey.. that journey is yours only when you can make it on your own.. so, if you want to see what's possible, a few brochures may help, but if all you do is look at "brochures" the real journey never left the station..

I was definately a child of the sixties, i have seen more than my fair share of "brochures".. and, i can assure you that anything achievable by external stimuli is also available through self-discipline.. the mind is an unimaginably powerful tool, whether through drugs or self-discipline it is the mind that manifests the experience.. learn to use the mind at will, and drugs will become unnecessary.. an occasional brochure of unexplored territories, if one chooses.. and, even then, reverence for the guidance is appropriate..

Be well..

hellhound
08-09-2005, 06:09 AM
Because i practice chi-kung any way, and i know what it feels like to have chi running through the body, however, not as strong as i felt after i had smoked,, i have reduced my smoking to once a week, so hopefully, with a bit of chi-kung in between, that chi will be racing around like a bat outta hell,,


The brain's cannabanoid system is not fully understood so it could be capable of many things and we have no way to prove against it right now with our (science community) limited understanding. So he may be on to something. Me I always smoke so I can't tell if it's hurting me or helping me although I seem to do ok with my internal energy progression and had a 4.0 GPA in college. They also say that without a doubt it has many benefits to cancer although as I said before too much is bad and may just end up giving you lung cancer when smoked. They have also done a study and as far as lowering IQ goes it only takes of 4 points and you regain them if you stop for awhile. Best Regards.

cbishop
08-09-2005, 06:46 AM
bob, i think you've got to seperate the issues of regular use to achieve a goal
or certain condition, as opposed to regular recreational use to have a laugh
with your friends and feel stupid. and then again, what is regular use?
once a week? day? on the hour? ;)

everyone has a different body chemistry. for one guy, hershey's is chocolate
heaven in a silver wrapper, for another guy, it's a night of hell on the porcelein
crapper. drugs like ritalin act one way in "normal" kids and another way in "ADD"
kids.

what the last guy said concerning his internal developement, and his studies in
school sounds a bit like my story. i never made A's nor was i interested in study
until i started smoking. i won't say that i've become "the last dragon" with my
martial arts, but i've been able to focus for much longer periods of time. i'm
probably mildly autistic and so focus on one thing is a huge problem for me
if something more interesting happens to cross my mind.

TaiChiBob
08-09-2005, 07:34 AM
Greetings..


i think you've got to seperate the issues of regular use to achieve a goal or certain condition, as opposed to regular recreational use to have a laugh
with your friends and feel stupid. I would suggest that regular recreational use will get you a laugh and make you stupid.. and, i don't advocate regular use for any purpose.. there is undeniable harm in putting smoke in the lungs, regardless of what kind.. the damage to the lungs will harm Qi flow.. And, if you do decide to use it for enhancing more esoteric goals, the tolerance and familiarity with the effects will not present the desired results.. your perception of reality is adjusted by the effects of regular use and discerning the difference between stoned imaginings and enhanced consciousness will be difficult.. most stoners will rationalize regular use to fit their addiction, regular use IS an addiction.. it is a preference for a reality distorted by artificial external stimuli, an abdication of one's own potential in favor of a potential dependent upon the temporary and transient effects of herbs.. it is an admission of incompetence at managing one's own existence..

Be well..

cbishop
08-09-2005, 08:27 AM
"it is an admission of incompetence at managing one's own existence.. "

is that how you feel about antidepressants? or antibiotics? or insulin for that matter? i think that this statement isn't really correct. we have to stick all sorts
of external things into our bodies on a daily basis just to stay alive this includes
water, possibly meat, plants and herbs, minerals. is use of these things an
admission of incompetence? or is it simply the understanding of how to use
what's been provided to lead a more beneficial existance?

thing is.. i don't ever get this "phsychadelic" experience that most other people
describe. never have.

cbishop
08-09-2005, 08:38 AM
what kind of TCM can you use to clean out the lungs from the effects of too much herb smoke?

tea of cherry bark. works like a charm. and witha bit of honey it's tasty too.

i think it's funny though that anyone would be concerned about harm
to the lungs considering the state of our breatheable air in big cities.

TaiChiBob
08-09-2005, 09:43 AM
Greetings..

cbishop: If you care to re-read my post, the reference to managing one's existence relates to habitual use of mind-altering substances.. not, prescribed medications or foods.. as i said, people can rationalize anything..


i think it's funny though that anyone would be concerned about harm to the lungs considering the state of our breatheable air in big cities That's the spirit, make a bad thing worse..

I normally close a post with a "be well" in hopes that such will be the case.. but, it seems that you are not particularly interested in that issue.. so, be as you will..

cbishop
08-09-2005, 12:27 PM
i don't get a "be well"???
c'mon bob. surely people on this forum (or this country for that matter)
don't have to agree on everything right?? i don't need to impose my
beliefs on you or anyone else. just sharing them that's all.

be well?? no, well is not good enough. i wish you many, many blessings bob.

TaiChiBob
08-09-2005, 12:46 PM
Greetings..

cbishop: Of course you get a "Be well", it is my sincere wish for ALL my brothers and sisters.. forgive what appears to be my frustration with you, it is more generally aimed at folks that take this remarkable gift of physical existence and mangle it with the excesses of uncontrolled desires.. you just happened to post at a time when i was dealing with similar frustrations related to people very close to me.. Humble apologies.. and,

BE WELL...

sk8fool
08-09-2005, 04:45 PM
tea of cherry bark. works like a charm. and witha bit of honey it's tasty too.

i think it's funny though that anyone would be concerned about harm
to the lungs considering the state of our breatheable air in big cities.
thanks although I wasnt refering to coughs, i meant all the resign that's probably built up in my lungs. I stoped smoking 3 years ago and am working towards making my body healthier

Scott R. Brown
08-09-2005, 07:32 PM
Hi cbishop,

Anti-depressants, antibiotics and insulin are used for the purpose of treating specific diseases and are prescribed by competent physicians who have extensive training in treating the diseases for which they are prescribed. They address specific chemical imbalances that are characteristic of specific diseases. Doctors do not self-medicate due to the risk of excessive use which leads to addiction!

Many individuals use alcohol and drugs to self-medicate due to mental disorders. These substances numb the brain which makes the disorder more manageable, but does not resolve the underlying disorder! Alcohol and illegal drugs do not address specific illnesses; they are used to avoid the realities of life that could be ameliorated through more beneficial and productive means! Frequently their use devolves into addiction with attending severe physical, psychological, social and economic consequences, anti-depressants, antibiotics and insulin do not!

cbishop
08-10-2005, 02:13 PM
scott, i can't argue with that. apparantly, you know it all already.
(sounds like you learned it from commercials and public service announcements)

sk8fool, cherry bark, while often used when a cough is present
is actually commonly used in tcm as an expectorant. it will loosen whatever
is sticking to your lungs and CAUSE you to cough it up.

herb ox
08-10-2005, 03:02 PM
Pardon me, bredren, but I have to disagree with Scott...

Contrary to his statement: "prescribed by competent physicians who have extensive training in treating the diseases for which they are prescribed" - do you realize that the majority of MDs make prescription decisions based upon advertising and promotional products they have received from the pharmaceutical companies?

"Doctors do not self-medicate due to the risk of excessive use which leads to addiction!" - again, having known many MD's, I can tell you with confidence that many doctors do indeed self-medicate. Some take it to the point of disruptive addiction, while others manage to keep it well hidden from collegues and the public. But if you dig a little deeper, you'll probably find the entire medical system is fraught with drug problems.

"Alcohol and illegal drugs do not address specific illnesses; they are used to avoid the realities of life that could be ameliorated through more beneficial and productive means! "

Okay, first of all, let's briefly address the illegality of cannabis. Would you feel the same way had it not been prohibited & demonized by Henry Anslinger in order to help the DuPont family to better compete against hemp? Everyone at the time knew nylon couldn't stand up against the wonderous hemp... but the almighty dollar speaks in America - nobody would stand for a ban on hemp since it was so useful, so instead Anslinger turned his focus on the psychoactive effects of the herb to turn the public against it.

"Frequently their use devolves into addiction with attending severe physical, psychological, social and economic consequences, anti-depressants, antibiotics and insulin do not!"

While I agree that use may devolve into addictive, destructive behavior, I must disagree that anti-depressants do not - numerous studies have shown undesirable effects of many psychopharmaceuticals - deeper depression, anxiety, delirium and paranoia to the point of murder and suicide.

Sorry, but you'll never convince me that the chemical brewings of mere mortals are always superior to the natural remedies created by the hand of the Almighty.

peace

herb ox

Scott R. Brown
08-10-2005, 06:06 PM
Hi cbishop,

The natural response of many individuals when they are unable to address the actual argument is to reduce the discussion to the “Attack the Man” fallacy and insults. No one is required to agree with anyone here, but there is no need to be snide!

My knowledge comes from over 20 years of nursing, much of it treating acute psychiatric disease and dementia. I am also the only member of my family not dealing with psychiatric or addiction issues.

To think that cherry bark used as an expectorant completely clears the lungs of foreign material is inaccurate and dangerous. It is most likely preferable to doing nothing at all, however to believe and promote that it counteracts the negative effects of inhaling and holding smoke in the lungs is irresponsible rationalization!

Facts are hard but we must all live with them!

Hi herb ox,

Many Doctors do make medication treatment decisions based upon the “clinical results” of medications, and these “clinical results” are communicated through pamphlets that can be considered advertisements. Many scientific studies are flawed as well. Many times pharmaceutical companies alter their findings in order to make money! The only thing this teaches us is, “Buyer Beware”!!! Blind faith in ones doctor or pharmaceutical companies is clearly foolish!

Doctors also prescribe medications based upon their experience with what actually works, what is cheapest for their patient, and what is easily accessible. When results are not apparent they will try other treatments. Every person reacts differently to medications. Something that works for one patient may not be effective for another.

MOST medications do what they are advertised to do. They prolong life and/or make it more livable for those with debilitating diseases. They provide chemicals that the body is unable to produce. Pharmaceuticals have been more successful in the last 200 years than the previous 5,000-10,000 years of herbal remedies have as demonstrated by the curing and/or amelioration of diseases, increasing life expectancy, and the increased general health of people.

As with every field of endeavor in life there are those who are competent and those who are quacks. Some doctors prescribe medications for themselves, many of them are psychiatrists. It is however, considered unethical. These ethical principles are generally STANDARDS of behavior and not laws. Everyone has the right to make foolish decisions and this does not just apply to marijuana users, but to doctors as well!

Your argument in response to my comments concerning the lack of medical benefits of alcohol and illegal drugs did not address my point. You diverted the focus to a political issue. Alcohol and illegal drugs are ingested for entertainment purposes, to self-medicate against an individual’s inability to deal with the realities of life and rarely for introspective purposes. Two of these purposes can be relatively harmless if exercised responsibly and in moderations, the other leads to increased psychiatric, social, and economic distress, thus increasing ones inability to deal with life’s realities and does not solve the problem!! It makes life worse by numbing ones ability too actually address the issue and determine an effective resolution!

I am unconcerned here with the political issues surrounding illegal drugs. I am addressing medical and psychiatric medications and comparing the consequences of their use with that of illegal drugs.

Anti-depressants are not addictive substances and rarely involve the negative effects you mention! They have varying levels of efficacy based upon the individual’s body chemistry and psychiatric diagnosis. We live in a society where many people want a simple answer to life’s problems and they believe that taking a pill will solve everything! Many others want something that works NOW being primarily concerned with paying a mortgage and raising their children. They want to be functional and while they might be amendable to counseling they realize that 10 or more years of therapy will not help them TODAY!!

All medications have side-effects and I will grant that in order to make money many pharmaceuticals play them down. We live in an imperfect world!! However, in the media all one hears about are the problems with medications. The media rarely or never cite the many MORE lives improved. If one specific medication is found to have negative side effects for an individual there are many other medications available. When prescribing psychiatric medication there is no way to know for certain which one will work best for an individual. There is a period of trial and error involved when determining the best medication to use. All medications have risks, but so does everything else in life. 50,000 people die every year in automobile accidents, more than from psychiatric medications! Shall we outlaw the car? When citing the severe behavior disturbances of those on Anti-depressants critics tend to ignore the underlying psychiatric problems and the therapeutic process involved that most likely contributed to the aberrant behavior as much or more than the medication.

It is not my intention to convince anyone to use or not use pharmaceutical medications. I am addressing a specific view held by those who advocate illegal drug use, in this case marijuana. I don’t care who uses it or not. But I do feel it necessary to address poor arguments made to rationalize its use and false claims of its benefits. I use herbals and supplements myself. I agree natural means are preferable to artificial means of treatment. I am unconcerned what you or anyone else uses. I personally am not a fan of psychiatric medication either. However, in extreme cases of psychosis they are absolutely necessary! Most individuals have no experience with acute psychosis. I have!! I have intervened in suicide attempts, treated acute psychotic episodes, and cleaned up after and those who have: slit their throats, cut themselves, hung themselves, slammed their heads in doors, etc!! I have had patients who have tried to eat themselves, eat others and who have heard voices telling them to do other more heinous and hideous things! Ask a schizophrenic or psychotic person who cannot function otherwise whether they prefer to be on pharmaceuticals or not!

As for the rest of us, the next time you get gangrene or tuberculosis go ahead and try herbs. If you live long enough to see they are ineffective then you will be happy to have pharmaceuticals to fall back on!

hazhardy
08-11-2005, 03:00 AM
so, had a doob yesterday,, same thing,, and i agree with whoever/s said that my chi was becoming unblocked,,very true,, i had so much energy in my sphere that i felt i could send it through some one just like Ken Masters, haha.
and this time the room wasn't spinning as much, so i could feel this sh!t flowing.
once a week seems aight right now,,,,,,feels nice you know?
cool.
take it easy, and stop squabbling like girls,, y'all too intelligent for dat sh!t.
hza

Repulsive Monkey
08-11-2005, 08:29 AM
From a Chinese Medicine perspective it is well known that Hash can be crippling for the body.
It does not give you extra Qi just because you experienced a head and body rush that was the THC in the hash nitwit.

Hash, damages the kidneys by draining it and dissipating Jing, and it totally messes up the Liver by causing qi to move in an unco-ordinated manner and then leaves you with Qi stagnation the next day not to mention it effects the Hun of the Liver massively.

If you want to bong out in your leisure time, fair enough, but don't be an idiot and think it will enhance any internal cultivation, because it will do the exact opposite, FACT!

cbishop
08-11-2005, 08:51 AM
in my first post, i mentioned passing a doob to an IMA.
not only is he a well known teacher, he's also one of the most well
known and respected of OMDs in the United States. i'm not an
omd, but those who i have spoken to on the subject assure me
that chinese medicine will NEVER say.. "this or this IS bad for the body
or for this organ or that" that's not how chinese medicine works.
always eastern medicine looks at the body as a whole, and what's
good for the goose is not always good for the gander.

i won't post the name of this doctor for the sake of his privacy and
the persecution that sort of thing tends to cause. if you want to question
this from an oriental medicine standpoint, you have only to visit an OMD
for yourself.

in fact concerning the cherry bark that i recommended for expectorant, though
it is used in tcm, this is not the way an OMD would diagnose or prescribe.
also, i never said that it would remove all the resins from the lungs.
you won't find that statement in my post. it will cause the resins to break
away, and you will cough most of it up.

scott, i know alot of "nurses". none of them seem to know quite as much
as you do about the dangers of smoking pot. i just don't really see the point
in arguing with someone who seems to know so much and yet provide no
evidence of that knowledge in the form of proof. you talk about the dangers
as if they're so well known, yet provide no link to studies by scientists which
i expect that you should have access to considering your occupation.

do you know that your brain produces cannabinoids???
do you know that not everyone's brain produces enough???
what's a guy to do if his brain produces less than the optimal amount???
(suffer because you don't like the smell of pot???)
not a chance!

http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/04/11.18.04/cannabinoid_study.html

Repulsive Monkey
08-11-2005, 02:12 PM
Im sorry but Hash most certainly does have effects more notably on certain organ functions than on others because of the functionality of the qi with that organ.
It's pretty obvious and many TCM practitioners will state that, because that IS how the thought in Chinese medicine goes.
It looks at the parts that go to make up the whole body. Notice how I mention the organs and then directly state their function that is affected by it, hence Jing is drained from the Kidney, and Qi stagnation is effected via the Liver.
I didn't even mention about the Shen becoming over excited via the heart blood!!

The fact of the matter is that from a TCM perspective there are many influencing factors that seem to have a specific effect upon single organs. However this particualr upset then has , quite obviously and naturally, and effect upon the whole of the body. Imbalance has to have its inception and root somewhere, wouldn't you agree??

I know this may sound precocious, and I certainly don't want to come across this way, but I fully agree with you when you say "if you want to question
this from an oriental medicine standpoint, you have only to visit an OMD
for yourself." Why? Because I am one.

cbishop
08-11-2005, 02:33 PM
"Imbalance has to have its inception and root somewhere, wouldn't you agree??"

absolutely. so, if i place 5grams on one side of the scale, will it fall? or
will it balance???

depends what's on the other side. right?

Scott R. Brown
08-12-2005, 01:42 AM
Hi cbishop,

I don’t care to post evidence for my view! Those who wish do believe as they wish to believe will do so regardless of any evidence that contradicts their view! You have your view and you are welcome to it! You are the one to reap the benefits as you perceive them and the detriments as they will be!

If and when you suffer from irreparable alteration of brain function, lowered motivation, lung disease and the attending social, emotional and economic consequences that will be your reward for your choices! You may also enjoy the karmic consequences, or not, for those whom you have convinced to follow your ill-informed views. I don’t care!! You are responsible for yourself and it is not my job to tell you what to do!

In the psychiatric profession there is a diagnosis for those who have suffered irreparable brain chemistry alteration due to illegal drug use including marijuana, it is called “organic brain syndrome”!! I have treated many individuals who suffer permanent negative effects due to actions that coincide with those you seem to be encouraging. I have not met one that is glad they fried their brain!

No, you did not say that cherry bark removes ALL the tars and I did not say that you did! You offered cherry bark as a remedy to ameliorate the negative affects of tars on the lungs! I responded that this was an inadequate solution as it does not clear the lungs of ALL the tars and further, it does not undo any damage to the tissues at all! I have a better remedy than yours! DON’T SMOKE!!!! If one does not smoke there is no reason to pursue half A$$ed methods of undoing or ameliorating the damage! It doesn’t take an intellectual giant to figure that out! Even a person with impaired judgment secondary to marijuana usage should be able to understand it!

It is healthier to participate in activities with fewer negative consequences and greater beneficial effects, such as Qi Gung and aerobic activity. Aerobic activity releases endorphins into the system that act as a “REAL” natural mood elevator! But I am sure you won't believe me because I haven’t posted links to scientific articles demonstrating this truth! Aerobic activity will “TRULY” benefit the lungs and cardio system and consequently Chi flow. You won't run the risk of contracting emphysema and COPD which are horrible ways to die and do nothing for ones Chi flow! You also won't have to use cherry bark in a futile attempt to undo the damage gained by inhaling and holding smoke in your lungs. Chi flow will TRULY benefit and your reasoning abilities will improve allowing you to avoid the negative consequences acquired through foolishness and unhealthy rationalization!

So you do not know any well informed nurses or nurses with my expertise! Big deal!! I know a lot of people and none of them have been to France. Therefore, France does not exist, using your rationalization!

hazhardy
08-12-2005, 04:26 AM
quit moaning nerds, and smoke that sh!t.

cbishop
08-12-2005, 04:56 AM
ok, if you insist.

TaiChiBob
08-12-2005, 05:09 AM
Greetings..


quit moaning nerds, and smoke that sh!t. Faced with responsible commentary, that response indicates too much damage done already.. Well-meaning people offer reasoned advice that can improve your health and MA experience, pay attention or pay the price.. The illusion of enhancement is a product of the drug's mind-altering attributes, your addiction to the pleasurable sensations will be rationalized as favorable to justify continued use of substances that will eventually damage your body.. you must decide if the illusion is preferable to good health.. good health will benefit you much more than an illusion that masks the damage it does..

Be well..

hazhardy
08-12-2005, 05:19 AM
that's some pretty sound sh!t there tai chi bob..
but you can understand why i said it, coz of all the nerds driftinf off into their world of science, ready to write every account possible on a forum which expects a paragraph max. answer....
im trying to reduce to once a week,,, but the feeling of my chi accelerating around me feels good.
cool.
take it easy
hza

cbishop
08-12-2005, 06:46 AM
bob, i've smoked for 15 years now. during that time i've wrestled, played judo,
hung ga, taiji, and bagua. along the way i've managed to hold down regular
jobs, and acquire a bachelor degree. i'm happily married, with two happy
children. i own property and am building a home. i don't sit on my @ss all day
and stone out watching tv. i'm 30 years old, and still look like 18.

i don't seem to suffer from any of the problems that you or others have pointed
out. i haven't become retarded and my martial arts progress has been outstanding.
anyone who wishes to test the presumption that smoking weed hinders martial
development is welcomed to come and meet me. i post under my
real name. i've indicated my city as okc. i can be found weeknights at the loft
above the bioenergy center on n classen blvd. i'll also be competing again next
year at taiji legacy if you'd like to do it in a more public place.

to wit..
we have a "nurse" telling us "i'm a nurse, don't smoke weed".
(no referal to sources, no evidence of medical study, and an obvious
issue with dementia in the family and workplace. how do you stay sane?)

we have an OMD telling us "it harms the chi"
(i'm actually mildly interested. what school did you study at please?)

we have taiji bob saying "it's a sacrement. don't smoke too much"
(which i agree with. the issue is, who gets to decide what is too much? YOU???)

TaiChiBob
08-12-2005, 07:44 AM
Greetings..

cbishop: First, i don't decide how much is "too much" for anyone but myself.. i figure your bodies will let you know.. Second, related to the first, if your body is healthy (or, how much better could it have been) and you are making informed choices, i emphatically support your right to choose.. Third, my post was only intended give people pause to think, not as a casting of stones.. i am genuinely concerned about peoples well-being..

Now, to give you some insight.. my first herb experience was in 1964.. fast-forward to 1986.. insight and realization leads me to re-evaluate effects on my health and psyche.. 1986 to present, respect for its power to hurt and help and conservative concientious utilization.. respect it and it respects you.. abuse it and likewise, it will abuse you..

Be well, Be healthy..

cbishop
08-12-2005, 08:24 AM
thanks bob. i respect that.

Scott R. Brown
08-12-2005, 09:29 AM
Hi cbishop,

I never said don’t smoke marijuana. I have discussed the negative consequences and encouraged healthier behavior. I have also stated that every person reacts differently to medications and this applies to illegal drugs as well. I believe individuals should make informed decisions understanding the possible negative side effects of their actions and behaviors. This is not a seminar; it is not my responsibility to provide you with medical studies that prove my view. They are well established and freely available from numerous sources. Look it up yourself!! You have a computer!!

Exceptions seem to occur with nearly every rule. Perhaps you are lucky and have inherited good genes; perhaps you will experience negative consequences in the next 10, 20, 30 or 40 years. No one will know until it occurs. Experience tells me that under even the most moderate circumstances you will regret your activities if you begin to experience permanent negative consequences. I can conceivably play Russian Roulette everyday for years and never end up shooting myself. I could then freely make comments about how safe I have found it to be and that all evidence to the contrary is not proven. But when the bullet finally enters my brain I will discover how foolish my attitude and behavior was and it will be too late! If I never play Russian Roulette I never need be concerned with the negative consequences!

Your actions don’t just affect yourself; they affect your family and others. An illness secondary to your marijuana usage effects your wife and children’s future financial security, their peace of mind and their safety if in an altered mental state you inadvertently hurt them or in an emergency fail to render necessary care that is needed. That is not my business, but it IS yours!!

I am responding to the ill-informed attitude that there is a free lunch with marijuana usage. All actions and behaviors have consequences. What exactly they will be we won’t know until they occur. It is likely we will experience unintended and unanticipated consequences.

Smoking of any kind affects the lungs negatively. While you claim no ill effects from your marijuana use, it is unlikely you are able to detect any mental or physical deterioration since you don’t know what to compare it too. If you are operating at 80% capability you won’t know it unless you have 100% capability to compare it too! We don’t know your level of usage and as with anything in life the more frequent the use the more likely the negative effects. For some individuals the negative effects do not arise for 40 or 50 years when addressing diseases like emphysema and COPD while subtle brain dysfunction can begin immediately and continue undiagnosed or perceived for many years. I have watched patients slowly deteriorate from emphysema and COPD many times. These diseases are directly attributed to smoking. Mental deterioration secondary to marijuana usage most frequently manifests itself as low motivation, inability to focus on or complete tasks and depression.

I do not have a family history of dementia; I have a long work history dealing with psychiatric and dementia patients. My family members have problems with addictive behaviors! I stay sane by exercising, meditating and introspection! These activities have no risk of physical or psychological negative side effects. I do not use artificial substances to deal with any of life’s stresses. I believe it is healthiest to address personal issues directly and work through them thereby resolving them PERMANENTLY!! Artificial substances merely treat the symptom not the cause. Consequently the symptoms continue to plague the individual influencing them to continue the use of artificial substances and increasing the opportunity for negative consequences to manifest!

Hi hazhardy,

If your inability to concentrate does not allow you finish reading my looooooong comments, don’t feel like you need to do so. They are not really addressed to you! But I do appreciate your sense of humor!! :)

herb ox
08-12-2005, 01:19 PM
Go get 'em Scott!

Ya know, it's funny, whenever a marijuana thread is started, it goes on for months and garners nearly as much response as the "talk to the got qi girls" threads and the Shaolin-Do bashing threads! :p

In actuality Scott, I agree with 95% of your statements. The point I was trying to make was the blanket statement of "illegal drugs and alcohol". This is why I pointed out the illegality of the herb is not legit. I feel many of the same issues you have noted can come about from overconsumption of hamburgers, frenchfries and dr. pepper. Sounds silly, right? But if you are what you eat, and what you eat affects your internal chemistry, then fast food and candy are drugs as well and can have deleterious effects over your lifetime.

Furthermore, marijuana is in a class of it's own. First of all, it is a plant, naturally occurring and used since ancient times for both medicinal and meditative effects. Why all the fuss now? Marijuana will affect your qi FAR LESS than heroin, methamphetamine, prescription pain killers, sleeping pills, ecstacy, etc...

Secondly, marijuana is far safer (barring the effects of smoking) than most other prescription drugs. The oral LD50 (killing 50% of subjects) of THC in laboratory rats was found to be in excess of 600 mg/kg (Meyers, 1992)- in human terms, we'd have to eat nearly 2 lbs of concentrated THC to reach the same blood concentrations (given the average THC concentration in smoked plant material of 1% to 0.15%, one would have to smoke over 200 lbs in a single 'session' to acheive similar results) . By comparison, the LD50 for Xanax is about 350 mg/kg.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is NOT to class marijuana with the other, more harmful drugs that are also illegal and highly processed. Cannabis is least processed of the illegal drugs - simply dried and trimmed to perfection. Don't be so quick to pass judgement on the herb. Yes, it has negative effects. But it also has many positive effects. It's a unique herb to say the least (although highly stigmatized from anti-drug campaigns, etc), and it really has NOT been given the proper research it deserves, and the research that has been done is biased in one direction or another - pharmaceutical companies only publish research that'll generate more money for them, and the stoners try to slant the research to make the herb look completely harmless. Neither side is telling the whole truth. You have to find it for yourself, and then, the truth is unique to your experience.

'nuff said.

peace
herb ox
(bubbling sounds in the background)

Reference: Meyers, F.H. (1992), Pharmacology of Marijuana: Just Another Sedative. Presented at The Drug Policy Foundation's CME Seminar, Washington, D.C. November 13, 1992

Scott R. Brown
08-12-2005, 03:18 PM
Hi herb ox,

I find nothing to argue with in your comments. Everything you have stated is true and accurate to the best of my understanding as well! Your thoughts are well articulated. As i have tried to indicate, I am not against marijuana usage per se! I believe individuals should make informed decisions by understanding the possible ramifications of their decisions. Any substance can be used to excess, including hamburgers and french fries. Even water taken to excess will kill you. As long as an individual understands the consequences of their behaviors and is willing to accept them when they occur I have nothing to comment about!

I am only attempting to communicate that marijuana usage is not all rainbows and marshmellows. There can be very serious, unanticipated and permanent consequences.

It is probably fair to say most people survive marijuana usage relatively unscathed. Most alcohol imbibers are the same! However, the potential for negative consequences increases with intemperate and long term usage.

cbishop
08-12-2005, 05:27 PM
i got no comment on the study i posted a link to.
any thoughts?

hazhardy
08-13-2005, 06:55 AM
Hi hazhardy,

If your inability to concentrate does not allow you finish reading my looooooong comments, don’t feel like you need to do so. They are not really addressed to you! But I do appreciate your sense of humor!! :)

haha, cheers,,,yeah i scan through see..
rad.
hza

oh yeah , just thought i'd pick up on this : -


tai chi bob maestro said:
respect it and it respects you.. abuse it and likewise, it will abuse you..
and that is a fcuking sound piece of advice....which i am following.
nice,,
take care
hza

PangQuan
08-15-2005, 12:01 PM
like women...

PangQuan
08-15-2005, 12:02 PM
and kung fu...

TaiChiBob
08-15-2005, 12:19 PM
Like life itself.. we get out of it what we put into it..

Wong Ying Home
08-15-2005, 12:52 PM
I had a disucssion with a naturopathic doctor, an Md and a Dr of TCM, re this subject once.

The following is a synopsis:

TCM and naturopath - Hash weed ect all force the bai hui crown point open, which is deemed as the physical interface between the physical self and spiritual self.long term this not only leaves one open to allsorts of potential spiritual threat, but one can longer close it open it and conduct astral travel

MD - long term abuse can lead to many people experiencing mental illness and psychosis, depression etc.

they all agreed this could be considered the same problem described in different terms.

having experimented in my youth a with a wide range of drugs, inc psychoactive...mushrooms, lsd, mescaline, weed etc.

I ditched them all and have found far better and long term benefits by having practiced under expereinced teachers of chi gung, etc.

Have seen to many old associates..still making the same mistake and ending completly f&&ck*d up

Lsd etc are like taking the elevator to to the top, quick and fast...but you dont know how you got there, or what it is your seeing.

Natural path is the stair case and you learn the benefits, lesson and experince of the journey, so when you do reach the top you are strong enough in both mid and body to understand what is at the top.

Just my 2cents

fa_jing
08-16-2005, 02:09 PM
smoking pot makes you lose your keys. Do you want to spend 30 minutes a day every day looking for your keys?

PangQuan
08-16-2005, 02:48 PM
what were we talking about?

cbishop
08-17-2005, 06:35 AM
smoking pot makes you lose your keys. Do you want to spend 30 minutes a day every day looking for your keys?

holy mother of god. someone who finally understands the truth about pot.
that is the single greatest drawback of smoking pot.

kind of makes you wonder why it's still illegal :rolleyes:

Tingjid
09-06-2005, 01:41 PM
In my experience (which over the years may have been a dime or two too much) weed will loosen you up enough to release a fair amount of chi(depending on your pent up chi at the time), and that's awesome and fun to play with, but excessive use will completely f up your concentration and for me totally screwed my chi kung ability. I would have to say the best way to improve your chi control is the natural way, meditation, tai chi and practice and practice, and maybe later if there's time some practice.

My theory on weed (I may have too much free time, I should be practicing) Smoking weed gives a false sense of contentment, which while enjoyable is still totally false. It can lull you into thinking you're happy all the while you're getting weaker and your defilements are gaining more and more control over 'you'. Don't get me wrong though, a J can be a great way to relax and hang out with friends, even if it isn't real, but hey, what is? :rolleyes:

So I guess my opinion would be all things in moderation.

- Max

Enjoy everything, you might as well...

TaiChiBob
09-07-2005, 05:26 AM
Greetings..

It's all real, even the illusions are real illusions.. i think people find it too convenient to refer to something as illusory when it's too much for them to deal with in "their" real world.. there is a difference between temporary and illusory.. just because something is temporary doesn't diminish its realism..

Be well..

David Jamieson
09-07-2005, 06:37 AM
Kungfu will come from diligence in practice and understanding formed from the doing of the work.

one can smoke all the weed they want, heck, you can inject heroin and do your tai chi, it isn't going to enhance anything other than your own perception because really, it isn't all that beneficial to ones practice. In moderation it doesn't detract, but it doesn't add.

Let's not try to make a silk purse out of a sows ear here. The more intouch with the reality of the task, the better the likelyhood you will gain further understanding. The more you navel gaze, the more likely you will continue to navel gaze.

I personally could care less if someone wants to use substances to enhance thei perception of the world, but if you are self medicating yourself to escape from aspects of your reality, then that is not reality, you are only increasing the maya.

hazhardy
09-08-2005, 05:18 AM
so i quit smoking jah herb, coz i came to a conclusion = it wasn't doing me any favors and i felt that if i smoked, the next time i did chi kung, my chi would not be flowing as well as if i had not smoked previously... basically i felt that smoking unblocked chi,,but when it came to get chi circulating without any 'extra use' of substances, it became much more difficult.
interesting.
hza

TaiChiBob
09-08-2005, 06:47 AM
Greetings..

Good move, Haz.. you can't spark-up a fatty every time you want to do Qi work.. or, i guess you could, but.. you'd forget why you sparked it up.. it has its place but, it's not for real Qi work or for casual recreation..

Good work and Be well..

hazhardy
09-09-2005, 11:14 AM
cheers bob, yeah, well some noice zan zhong will do the trick instead'a the 'erb
hza

Ou Ji
09-11-2005, 10:14 AM
Just to add my nickel bags worth I'd have to say that some people function quite well under the MJ influence while others do not. I'm in the latter category and I'm amazed at how others work up a storm and actually know what they're doing.

Back in the day I stood at the steps of the nations capitol smoking Thai Stick with Keith Stroop while reporters interviewed him before going in to testify before congress to legalize MJ. Good thing they didn't ask me any tough questions, like my name. I was shlitfaced. That was the White House smoke-in 1974.

So I really can't fault those who start their day with a spark just because it doesn't work for me. Another thing I noticed personally was that my joints were much tighter when I smoked. Not the ones I rolled (although they too were much tighter), the ones in my body. It might relax you at the time but you'll be stiff later. That's why you need to spark up to loosen up.

bing bang pow
10-08-2005, 12:08 PM
Smoking pot is certainly not the way to develop your awareness of energy or chi. Smoking Pot is like a light bulb that emits light only from one side of the bulb. While you may feel Chi in ways you never had before, It is very incomplete and will, over time, hinder your advancement.
The drug's effect has nothing to do with the balance of energy, awareness and concentraition. All of these elements are involved with Chi development and need to be balanced and enhanced with skill. Pot will increase your ability to concentraite and feel butit decreases your awareness and energy. Usually, that is. Everyone reacts alittle differently to smoking Pot, however, there is a correct and complete way to develop Chi and Chi Gung. Drug use has no part in it.

TaiChiBob
04-16-2008, 05:16 AM
Greetings..

Cannibis is a sacred herb.. used as a sacrement it has benefits.. used recreationally, it will deceive you.. Cannibis is its own meditation, and shouldn't be used with other types of meditation/energy-work.. Cannibis has the ability to ease-up the "structure of beliefs", such that when someone feels trapped by their own dogmas, it can nudge them past a plateau.. it also has some influences on creativity.. it should, however, be used infrequently and only with great respect..

Be well..

mawali
04-16-2008, 07:53 AM
Ganja (bhang) should never be used with meditation because it will prolong the experience (sensation/delusion) and for those whose system cannot handle it, the result can be neurological related problems.

TaiCHBob's example is an excellent one!

doug maverick
04-16-2008, 10:05 AM
not to mention that weed is seriously bad for your kidney's

herb ox
04-16-2008, 11:05 AM
Mawali's comment regarding TCBob was not very nice... unless you were were joking (I hope), you need to smoke more weed, man. Ease up. :cool:

DMav - marijuana bad for your kidneys? Please clarify.

It's only called a 'drug' because it has been demonized by people with pecuniary motivations. Anything you put in your body is a drug, whether it be sugar, caffeine, chili peppers, ginger, etc. [sound of a fresh can of worms opening in the background] as they all have an effect on our physiology. Therefore, to simply rule out the use of cannabis because 'it's a drug' is not a valid reason.

As for causing brain cancer, recent research suggests the cannabinoids have a neuroPROTECTIVE function, keeping the brain from degeneration. It's an herb, a medicine, a drug... depends on how you use it.

To address the main question, in qigong practice, your connection with the natural and heavenly influences is paramount to progress. Cannabis can re-awaken a dormant or latent connection to nature, therefore it can be beneficial. However, one should never become dependent on the herb for increasing awareness, as the highest awareness requires liberation from body and mind, therefore clouding your sacred vision with smoke is strongly cautioned against.

kind regards,

tha' herb ox

mawali
04-16-2008, 08:46 PM
herb ox,
I & I smoke with the best of the islanders and desi so I know the effects BUT I did not inhale and if I did, I was unawares! :)
Anyway I observed my friends exhibiting a ravenous appetite and the infamous rude man shuffling so slow, a tortoise could have passed him!
It give spaced out a new dimension!
Anyway to each his own as they say in USA!

It has been show to be good for cancer so we agree, I hope, mon!

cjurakpt
04-16-2008, 08:58 PM
Greetings..

Cannibis is a sacred herb.. used as a sacrement it has benefits.. used recreationally, it will deceive you.. Cannibis is its own meditation, and shouldn't be used with other types of meditation/energy-work.. Cannibis has the ability to ease-up the "structure of beliefs", such that when someone feels trapped by their own dogmas, it can nudge them past a plateau.. it also has some influences on creativity.. it should, however, be used infrequently and only with great respect..

Be well..

hey Bob - I missed that part in the latest US marijuana policy statement - would you regard the above as an "off label" usage of the substance? anyway, i guess that you won't be a candidate for head of the FDA anytime soon, LOL!

unfortunately, your very direct assessment of the context within which any natural substance is utilized is so diametrically opposed to the contemporary economics of morality (yes, that's what I said), that I am afraid the culture will never support it (not that you necessarily care, obviously); now personally, I would never engage in the sort of activity you suggest; why? not because it is wrong, but because my sense of myself has always been that my system would not handle it; but that is personal choice: I think if people want to partake of that, or really any substance, let 'em do it, God bless; just legalize it, give it away for free, but organize it in a way that if someone does do it, they can't operate heavy machinery; of course, it would be great if everyone could employ it as a means of interacting with altered states of consciousness in a proactive manner- but I think you need an intrinsic sense of self in order to do so, a sense that most people lack, either due to cultural environment, predisposition, or both;
but otherwise, good on ya' brother

oh, and to legalize alcohol but prohibit cannabis - the greatest of all hypocrisies, but again, the economics of morality!

Scott R. Brown
04-17-2008, 08:52 AM
Hi Chris,

It is sacred to Native Americans and used in traditional rituals to assist in attaining altered mental states. Some 28 years ago I was an apprentice to a native American medicine man; we used it in every ritual in small amounts. It is an ingredient in a specific medicine kinniknick mixture along with tobacco, sage, willow bark and a few other secret ingredients.

In the Native American sense, the term "medicine" is not used as in our colloquial sense of, "a substance used to treat a physical malady", but means more specifically nearly anything that may have a spiritual/psychological context to it. Within this context a pebble, feather, twig, picture/symbol, action or personal ritual could be considered medicine.

herb ox
04-17-2008, 09:45 AM
herb ox,
I & I smoke with the best of the islanders and desi so I know the effects BUT I did not inhale and if I did, I was unawares! :)
...

It has been show to be good for cancer so we agree, I hope, mon!

Yes, I. I mon never waste tha' 'erb. Like Mr. Miyagi says: "Inhale... exhale..." :D

There is no doubt in my mind regarding the amazing effect the herb has for patients with intractable pain. I work a lot with these folk, and time and time again, they'll confide in me and tell me "the only true relief I can get from the pain is from cannabis". It has been shown to be remarkably effective for treating spastic pain, especially of the pelvic floor muscles or the deep bone pain that many cancer patients suffer from. That may be lab research. However, I see it daily in the clinic..

RASpect-fully,

herb ox