View Full Version : Whats are the differences between the 4 branches of Shorin Ryu

01-23-2002, 01:37 PM
I know that Shobayashi and Kobayashi are basically the same except for a couple of kata give or take. I dont know much about Matsubayashi. I know its the least like the rest. So much so that it's listed separate from Shorin Ryu in the 4 major styles of Okinawan Karate. Is Matsumura Seito the most complete style of Shorin Ryu? I know its has the Hakutsuru kata from Bai He Quan and a couple others. Can someone fill me in on the details of the differences. I especially want to know about Matsubayashi since theres a school close by. Oh yea please dont refer me to a book or a half-assed website. I get enough of that at e-budo. Thanx

David Jamieson
01-23-2002, 06:39 PM
matsubayashi ryu has as a large focus in it's curriculum what are considered the "iron" skills of Shaolin (Shorin).

There is a martial artist named Rick Faraci (sp?), who was the guy who Jackie Chan Wrenched up side the head in his movie Rumble in the Bronx.

Anyway, Rick is from my home town and he trained Matsubayashi.
If you look around for info on Rick, you'll be likely to go a little deeper and find info on matsubayashi ryu.

It was his speciality and he was quite proud of the inordinate pain he could withstand from the training he did.


01-24-2002, 05:49 AM
Thanx Kung lek. Its sounds worth learning. It was that or Uechi Ryu.

David Jamieson
01-24-2002, 06:14 AM
well, be forwarned.

There is a lot of training involving pain.
IE: you will walk the gauntlet, you will feel the shinai beating you in an effort to "toughen" you up.
There is no medicine involved as there is in Shaolin Iron Skills.

The Karate itself is as you have stated, Okinawan in form and function.

But the Training is a little outrageous for the modern day as far as the threshold of pain training is concerned.


01-24-2002, 08:03 AM
Thanx for the warning. Seems abit extreme. I can handle it though. What i really wanted to know is the difference between this style of Shorin and the other 3 Sho/Kobayashi and Matsumura Seito. Matsubayashi seems to be missing a few kata. There are 2 parts to Passai and Kusanku in the others but only Yaru Kusanku in Matsu' style. You say your friends style has a focus on Ironbody. Is this the same in the others or do they have different foci. Thanx again

01-28-2002, 06:03 PM
Shobayashi and Kobayashi (divided into Shidokan and Shorinkan) are very similar and the most like Matsumura's original methods out of the 2 Itosu-Ha (or factions). Matsubayshi is based on the teachings of Chotoku Kyan (who influenced Shobayashi also), Koseku Matsumora (no relation to Sokon Matsumura) and Chokki Motobu (famous tough guy, bad-ass). It is the most Japanese and the furthest from original intent.

Matsumura Seito (or Orthodox) is the original Shorin (Shuri/Tomari Te) as taught to Hohan Soken, great grand nephew of Sokon "Bushi" Matsumura. The crane fist or "tsuruken" techniques were only taught to family members, and even great modern karate pioneers like Anko Itosu or Gichin Funakoshi, were not taught these "advanced" fighting principles. Shorin Ryu is a true Half-Hard, Half-Soft style. The practitioner starts off with extreme mental and physical rigidity, that eventually becomes yin/yang, then eventually, at the highest levels, almost completely "internal" or a soft style.

Kobayashi (especially Shorinkan) and Shobayashi (Seibukan in particular) as well as Matsumura Seito are very good combat sciences that deal with standing and ground fighting as well as the esoteric aspects such as Chinese acupuncture/medicine, and philosophy.

Matsubayashi Ryu is often singled out on Okinawa as a "school-boy" system. Although this statement is true, even of Kobayashi/Shobayashi, many use Shoshin Nagamine's Matsubayashi as a term to describe karate that is "waki-waki" or not up to par. If a style is whack many Okinawan senseis will call it Matsubayashi Ryu. That sounds harsh, but that's the truth. Still it is better than 98% of Japanese and Korean karate, as many soft principles still remain.

If you wanted to take ShuriTe for a lifetime it is best to start off in Matsumura Seito (also called Sukunai Hayashi by some organizations), so as to not develop bad "modern" sport habits. If Matsumura Orthodox is not available, Shorinkan (Kobayashi) or Seibukan Shobayashi are great fighting styles also. Shorinkan teaches every kick imaginable, high or low, and many tuite and other Okinawan "Jujutsu" concepts. Shorin Ryu is especially known for its punches and other hand techs, but many Southern and Northern Chinese kicking techs are taught (especially in Kobayashi).

There are many Shorin sites on the web. Check out some histories, and see what you like the best. There are quite a few Matsumura Orthodox sites, but watch out because many of its senseis are also "waki-waki". Then again many are very skilled and knowledgeable.

If Matsubayashi Ryu is all that they have in your area try it out and see how you like it. It is a good introductory style to real Shorin. Uechi Ryu is also a very good system, with many Southern Chinese principles in its repertoire, but some Okinawans criticize it for being a little unnatural, with too much emphasis on Iron Body training. Still it is a unique, and awesome fighting style.

I have trained in all branches of Shorin (except Shobayashi) in the Philippines, on Okinawa and now stateside. I am a Yudansha (black belt) in Kobayashi Shorinkan and Matsumura Seito. Both systems have their merits, but Matsumura Orthodox is closer to the original combat intent. Some of the best instructors in the world are here and have left Asia. Shorin is often lumped together with all karate, but trust me it is real and effective.

Good luck, and I hope your journey to Shaolin (Shorin) is educational and fulfilling. I train Shorin and BJJ and can say the former allowed me to fully grasp the latter. Combat is combat. Shorin is REAL fighting karate. Tru' dat.... Later 4 a lonnnnnnng time....