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Thread: Vegan/Vegetarian?

  1. #16
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    ElPietro,
    no worries, I understand that there are some people who might be like that. Being vegetarian does not make you different to others. If they do have that attitude, then posibly their whole approach and philosophy is is wrong. But then again, i dont want to start a religious debate on an internet forum.

    About the study, I will have time over the weekend to retype the main points over. I will copy and paste it in here for everyone to read. I also have many sports nutrition manuals with a lot of valueble info on this subject. I am more than happy to share.

    Prana,
    no disrespect intended. What I meant to say is that I cannot understand why vegans or vegetarians would become pale. What exactly does meat contain which makes people not looking pale? As you said, if someone doesn't eat a balanced meal, this could happen, but this count for non vegans and vegetarians too.

    In defense to non vegetarians, these days because of polution and over cultivation of lands, the veggies are starting to degrade in nutritional vallue. It is therefor good to look at an overall nutritional supplement. Yuo can suppliment not just only with vitamin tabs, but in many different ways.

  2. #17
    Cool...you don't have to type it word for word but try to get some of the science behind it in your post. Considering Soy is about the only source of protein to vegetarians I expect them to try and make it look good. So I will look at your info very critically...

  3. #18
    HK,

    I read the article on the web somewhere. I'd do a search on Carl Lewis. I'm sure he has a web page. He is quite proud of his vegetanarian/vegan up-bringing. It's no secret.

  4. #19
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    Ford...thanks! let me know what you find.

    EP...**** dude, chill. what was that all about?? i understand the condescending attitude from "holier than though" vegetarians (because it IS truly annoying) but every group of people has their "holier than thou-ers". you seem to be as defensive about eating meat as ANY vegetarian i've met crusading to NOT eat meat. have you done it?? been a vegetarian, i mean. i've done both. i can tell you my own experience and what worked and didn't work for me. i don't need to talk about what the books and articles say. once again, there's a tremendous amount of bioindividuality out there. it's extremely difficult to talk about what's "right".

    i know you are a truth-seeker at heart, so don't get so caught up in the emotional crap that's out there. "there is nothing wrong with eating meat" is as much of a value judgement as any other statement on this thread. as far searching for a particular athlete..doesn't that make sense? if you chose to be a vegetarian (for whatever reasons) and you were an athlete, wouldn't it make sense to see if there were examples of people out there who made it work? this isn't about what "millions of other people do"...this is about what decisions we as individuals make about our lives.

    and by the way, when i added fish back to my diet, i stopped calling myself a vegetarian. i was joking with fu-pow because of all the qualifiers that people use though. it's just funny dude. nothing to get upset by.

    having said all of that...i would agree that vegans in particular like to play the high and mighty game. so what? let them. it's their life. it's certainly not affecting me.

    i'm sorry your experience with vegetarians has been so negative. hopefully it will balance out with cool ones in the future.

    Eddie...your last point couldn't be emphasized enough...the quality of food these days is EXTREMELY POOR! and it's only getting worse. such a drag.

  5. #20
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    vegan/vegitarianism is a dumb route. man needs meat. he's been eating it since he knew a from apple, and to go without it severly weakens the body and the blood.
    here's some sh!t i bet all of you are not ready for though. eat your meat raw. whowever thought of taking fire....that which hurts like hell when you touch it, and putting it to food, that which nourishes the body? a dummy, that's who. you only damage the nutrients in your food when you heat them. every other species of animal eats their meat raw. humans just like the way it smells. nutrition is MOST important, taste second.
    i recommend a completely raw food diet...or at least over 50%.
    and to make sure your meat is organic. everything should be organic.
    only gin and tang guzzle out a rusty tin can, me and this mic is like yin and yang

  6. #21
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    raw meat???

    okies i've had raw meat in sushi, but this is little wierd...

    now one thing, in Deuteronomy that your not supposed to eat the blood, for the life is in blood.

    now how would one have meat raw without having blood in it??


    another thing we have to worry bout is parasites and diseases, bacause even ORGANIC meats are prone to PARASITES & such.
    pork is increadibly prone to diseases and such...

    now how bout that one?


    btw, i'm not intending on being antagonistic, but have major questions on what you just said.

  7. #22
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    Wink David has entered the building

    I love vegan posts because I'm an annoying born-again vegan. It's 10 months since I started and I love it. St. Francis of Assisi - eat my shorts.

    Xebsball - I saw a documentary on the Living on Light. The woman at the head of it has a daughter and the daughter said on camera that her mum was always eating - even mars bars. Complete rubbish, basically. I was a believer until I heard her and her daughter speak. She's like Oroboros the snake that eats itself - she has her head up her a55 and eats all the time.

    Fish: the only essential food you find in fish is a plant protein that they get from lower in the food chain from seaweed and kelp. So you can get it fresh from the source rather than getting something chewed already by a fish, of all things!

    To the original question - I'm having a hard time keeping my weight down as a vegan because of an addiction to nuts. Apart from a slight loosening around the middle (Christ, it's hit me that I am in my 30's 8-| ), I'm full of colour (or color) and getting stronger in the normal way.

    I know of one kungfu master who's been vegan over 8 years.

    I'd eat meat in an emergency and if I had killed someone and needed to dispose of them {burp}. Plants are loaded with everything you need. So, I need to eat more? ****, I hate lots of big meals

    One thing about plants is that the goodness in them isn't restricted to what you compare it to in meat. Animals strip out half (whatever percentage) of the goodness to use in metabolism so when you eat the meat you're getting low grade benefits. Also, plant diseases don't translate to humans, AFAIK which is becoming more and more interesting to more and more frightened 'cattle' consumers.

    Vegansim is the diet of the future. I am one of the chosen. Lettuce be united.

  8. #23
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    Originally posted by ElPietro


    I would love for you to show me this proof. Soy in no way is superior.
    Maybe not superior. But it is a FACT that the Aztecs diet was comprised mainly of corn (tortillas) and beans (soy is a bean) and that was all they ate and it was a complete protein for their diets.

    Also sorry I can't find the name, but there was a Mr. Universe in the 80's I believe who was vegan.

  9. #24
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    His name was Bill Pearl just in case someone out there actually wants to call me on that one.

  10. #25
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    I don't know what Deuteronomy is, but blood is fine. There are people who drink cow's blood mixed with raw cow's milk. From a raw food perspective, drinking the blood helps vitalize your blood. Eating an organ, brings health to the corresponding organ in you.

    Everything/one is prone to parasites and bacteria. They've been here as long as we have. Why are people so nervous about them these days? Because the food they are eating (cooked, enriched, processed, fake) is making their body weaker and now these parasites, bacteria, atc, are finding great terrain to thrive in.
    It's all Pasteur's fault. He said bacteria is bad and the world went with it. Check out one of his peers, Duchamp. He said it's not the bacteria or disease, but the terrain that is the problem. Pasteur even said Duchamp was right, but only after his bacteria theory came out and the world of medicine realized the money that could be made from pharmaceuticals, so they ignored Duchamp and his theory. Cooked foods make for unhealthy terrain. Raw food does not.
    In short, from a raw food persepctive, you'll get sick, have a bacterial infection, virul infection, if your body has a need to clean itself out. Bacteria and the like all help make us healthy, all help clean or system. Drugs kill the bacteria, that was originally meant to clean us out, and we are left with an unhealthy terrain that will invite more bacteria. If you are on a raw food diet, and you get sick, and you let the sickness run it's course, you will feel better than you did before you got sick. I've seen it happen and had it happen to me. I know of people that went through spinal menengitis MORE THAN ONCE, didn't go to a hospital, stuck with their raw food diet and fully recovered, feeling better than they did before they got sick!

    Read the book, We Want to Live, if you want to learn more.
    No disrespect, but I'm so happy Veganism isn't going to be part of my future.
    only gin and tang guzzle out a rusty tin can, me and this mic is like yin and yang

  11. #26
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    JustaMan - can you elaborate on what you are referring to as "terrain", please? I know terrain as the earth/land either literally or figuratively but can't make sense of what you mean by it...

    I looked up Duchamp on the web and got a couple of references to topology but not much.

    Bacteria: I can't live without it

    Milk: milk is BAD. It's a hormone-controlled secretion for infants and nature knows it's a thing to be weaned from. It's because you don't see the point in plants that you have to stay sucking teats to stay alive.

    Anyway, I'm interested in what you said about Duchamp.

  12. #27
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    terrain meaning the condition in your body. for example, if you don't circulate your chi fully in the body, then there are parts of it that will be 'underfed'. these 'underfed' areas become terrain that bacteria, viruses, etc will be attracted to because of the state of unhealth in that area. any clearer? or if you eat alot of fried foods and your colon gets all clogged up with that stuff. that's unhealthy terrain where UNfriendly bacteria will set up the party tent.
    and it's bechamp, not duchamp. I think i got duchamp from stand by me! woops! sorry man.
    raw cow's milk is not bad man. i drink about 2 gallons a week and have NO problems with mucus or any of that 'lactose intolerant' biz. plus, milk blended with a spoon of raw honey is a gift from the gods. straight up. i do see the point in plants. most definitly. they are a key part of my diet, as meat and fat is. i also drink half a quart of fresh squeezed, green veggie juice a day. greens are great but they do not supply the whole answer.
    look, i know the meat thing is a far out idea. i don't expect anyone to think i'm all that sane for recommending it. it's why i won't even begin to suggest people eat raw butter, and lot's of it. just read We Want To Live and draw your own conclusion. there is another great book called Blatent Raw Foodist Propaganda that drops some good facts about raw food and it's insane benefits. read about Pottenger's Cats. the proof is in the pudding.
    happy reading.
    only gin and tang guzzle out a rusty tin can, me and this mic is like yin and yang

  13. #28
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    Thanks for responding Justaman. Not sure if I'll buy the recommended book (would you buy my recommended vegan book..?) but I will look into the Bechamp thing. I was thinking of the feeling-better-after-serious-illness thing overnight and remembered reading an article just the other day about organic veggies. It's not long but you'll get the point.

    Organic Food Might Reduce Heart Attacks

    On milk, until going vegan I drank several cows a day. The vegan health issues with milk are numerous. Assuming you're not drinking disease or vetinary drugs the calcium in milk causes your body problems because there's too much of it. The bones lose strength over time and wear out. Osteoperosis can result though that's mainly something women get. Only people who consume dairy products suffer like that.

    You have no idea how character-building it is to not eat pizza :-( Man, is it hard!

  14. #29
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    Phew

    Thanks Eddie, Spark (yo man, how ya doin'?), David. I read this thread a coupla days ago and nearly blew my stack : fortunately didn't have time to reply.

    Thanks Justaman, LOL. Good luck with your diet. I think the key really is about bioindividuality, but I'd be very surprised if you follow the diet I suppose you follow, if you live past about 50. Too much completely raw food can give you too much fibre. Fibre is, by its nature indigestible and abrasive, and too much will probably tear your colon like you've been eating wire-wool. Cave men haven't been around for some time, and when they were they didn't live very long for a number of reasons.

    I was a strict vegan for 10 years or so. Perfectly healthy, thank you. No health problems at all. Training all the time. Before then I was strict vegetarian for about 5 years. Perfectly healthy thank you.

    ElPietro, when I started I was a little rabid about the subject, but I was only 14, so nobody listened anyway ! A lot of this was a response to often vehement, ignorant and personal attacks from omnivores: it always seemed to be open season on vegetarians... so many people would say "But you're wearing leather shoes..." , "How can you tell me I shouldn't be eating meat?" (when I had just said I was a vegetarian!). I haven't got on my high horse about the diet thing for a long time, but suffice it to say I firmly believe IMHOH (in my heart of hearts) that if you fed all of the omnivourous people in the world to each other the world would be a cleaner, more peaceful, and more resource-friendly place .

    Back to the original question Sevan. I'm sorry, but I'm skinny as a rake too, but I have tone, and all of my muscles work more than sufficiently for what I need them to do. I am lightly tanned. Everybody says I look very healthy (this is EVERYBODY, it's quite boring!). My skin is very dry, but that's because I live in Tokyo. I know everyone with any interest in this kind of thing has their own dietary bible, and that most of these are half-full of it, but my recommended reading is 'Optimum Sports Nutrition' by Michael Colgan. He's not a veggie, but his job is researching athletes' diets. His conclusions come down quite heavily on the side of cutting down both meat and fish. He is not selling anything, and he has logical criticisms of bad food! I you want some friendly specific dietary advice, send me a private or just reply here. But basically I suggest you do a lot of reading (a lot of nutritionists contradict each other), and try it for a bit to see how it goes. Bear in mind it'll probably take 6 months or so to show through any health changes.

    Slightly OT but related (and I'm not being a smart A, unless the answer bears out what I think! ): can anyone tell me what the Shaolin monks and Japanese Zen monks REALLY ate/eat?
    its safe to say that I train some martial arts. Im not that good really, but most people really suck, so I feel ok about that - Sunfist

    Sometime blog on training esp in Japan

  15. #30
    Originally posted by Spark


    Maybe not superior. But it is a FACT that the Aztecs diet was comprised mainly of corn (tortillas) and beans (soy is a bean) and that was all they ate and it was a complete protein for their diets.

    Also sorry I can't find the name, but there was a Mr. Universe in the 80's I believe who was vegan.
    Not sure what the Aztecs eating habits have to do with anything. I respect Bill Pearl but never heard anything about him being a vegan, he doesn't mention it in his book either, but regardless that's not very relevant. I would just like some science on why eating only vegetables is superior to eating veggies and meat. Also, anything that explains why soy protein is better than protein from bovine sources.

    I honestly don't care what people's eating habits are...just don't like it if they tell others their eating habits are superior but have no research to provide to back up that statement. Because others do it isn't good enough. Still waiting...

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