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Thread: Vegan/Vegetarian?

  1. #31
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    I honestly don't care what people's eating habits are...just don't like it if they tell others their eating habits are superior but have no research to provide to back up that statement.

    Ditto. This is what omnivores have been trying to spin on me for years!

    Because others do it isn't good enough. Still waiting...

    I'm afraid I'm not a nutritionist, so I've only researched it by reading other people's books . As I said, try Michael Colgan's. He's not a vegetarian and the book is interesting. It's a bit big or I'd try to summarize it for you!

    His suggested regime is a lot stricter than most people's, but it's interesting anyway if you're interested in sport nutrition, and resource use, come to that.
    its safe to say that I train some martial arts. Im not that good really, but most people really suck, so I feel ok about that - Sunfist

    Sometime blog on training esp in Japan

  2. #32
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    david, i won't buy your book, but only because i was a vegan for 5 years, so i feel like i know that path already.
    as for milk, were you drinking pasteurized and ****genized milk or raw milk? i've heard all the problems you listed as coming from the milk that is pasteurized and ****genized. i've never heard of any of these problems coming from raw cow's milk.
    mat, i really don't eat that many fiber rich foods. let's see, the only thing that supllies any decent amount of fiber is my salads, and my apples....maybe the occasional dates i eat. that's it though. my diet consists of milk (raw), eggs (organic, free range, **** laid), beef (organic), butter (raw), and avacados and coconut cream (both raw, organic). these aren't really food known for their fiber. that's funny about what you say, cuz i think that if i can stick to this diet i'll see 100 years (and be in good condition when i get there).
    cave men aside, there are many tribes of peoples that, today, live on raw food diets (including meat and dairy) and have none of the diseases that plague our sophisticated society.
    i really hope some of yall check the 2 books i mentioned.
    when little chinamen came to the western world to teach martial arts, maaad people thought they were nuts to think their skinny, old-man frames would be any match for the larger, more muscular
    breeds of men of the western hemisphere. the only way to prove it was when they crossed hands. the only way i can show you some actual proof is by showing you these books that are loaded with info. every book you read, whether you agree with it or not, helps shape and strengthen your opinion on what you believe. take a chance. spend $20 and learn about what this wackjob is saying. i'm not going to post essays of info on the subject cuz i don't have that kind of time for it. please, read the books.
    only gin and tang guzzle out a rusty tin can, me and this mic is like yin and yang

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    Originally posted by ElPietro


    Not sure what the Aztecs eating habits have to do with anything. I respect Bill Pearl but never heard anything about him being a vegan, he doesn't mention it in his book either, but regardless that's not very relevant. I would just like some science on why eating only vegetables is superior to eating veggies and meat. Also, anything that explains why soy protein is better than protein from bovine sources.

    I honestly don't care what people's eating habits are...just don't like it if they tell others their eating habits are superior but have no research to provide to back up that statement. Because others do it isn't good enough. Still waiting...
    Sorry ElPietro if I was being obscure. You said you wanted proof about a soy diet being superior (I think). I was merely showing you how an entire civilization's diet was based upon beans and corn and that was a complete protein for their diets. If you've done any research or read about the Aztecs, you'd know they weren't sickly little skinny men.

    I think it's funny that you say that veggies are the one acting superior! Everywhere I go, once people find out i'm a veggie, they think i'm a freak of nature, followed by 20 questions on how I've managed to survive all these years.

    ANyhow, i'll just state that I think it's better for you to eat vegetables than it is meat and you can find all the proteins you need without ever consuming an animal. It has nothing to do with superiority, it has everything to do with health, and the well being of yourself and the planet!

    And no i'm not a hippie!!!

  4. #34
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    Grangeville, Id, USA
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    thanks

    Thanks for the ideas and suggestions all,

    I'll for sure review thoroughly all that was said and see how goes...

  5. #35
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    Re: Phew

    Originally posted by Mat

    Slightly OT but related (and I'm not being a smart A, unless the answer bears out what I think! ): can anyone tell me what the Shaolin monks and Japanese Zen monks REALLY ate/eat?
    Many Taoists I know are strong vegetarians (vegans) and includes not eating the 4 pungeant foods such as garlic & onions. Others eat meat, but I am not sure which is which, anyone would like to add ? They believe people who cultivate samadhi with these pungeant foods attracts attention of beings of the other world.

    Pure Buddhists practise are different, but I shant share.
    Sorry for absense, lots happening.

  6. #36
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    Grangeville, Id, USA
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    why not?

    Prana: Why you dont share?

    more info always cool... also i like to hear others opinions.

  7. #37
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    Sevan it is off topic, and not asked.

    Besides, I already have a bad case of verbal diarrhoea.

    edit : I guess it is not that off-topic. So here are some thoughts, you choose your path.
    Beggars can't be choosers, food given should not be wasted. Thou shall not kill. So clearly a middle ground is taken. Can you guess ?

    peace
    Last edited by prana; 03-18-2002 at 04:35 PM.
    Sorry for absense, lots happening.

  8. #38
    Well since everyone likes to make claims based on what was, or what people say or think, and haven't produced any kind of interesting research to back anything up I thought I'd post some reading material for you all.

    General Article with good science and a multitude of references:

    http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_143soy.html

    A very in-depth site with many articles and reading material on virtually all aspects of soy. Excellent references and peer reviewed studies:

    http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/


    Let me just once again clarify my point that I truly could care less what you decide, as long as you do not influence those that are seeking answers without at least providing good reason. If I'm right and someone takes my advice because they've read some info or science I've posted that's great. But if I said something that someone took to heart and I had just said it because I believed it and didn't have any form of research to back up what I say then that would be a bad thing. I'm showing people what I've read and believe and allowing them to make an informed decision. Just saying something is good because you do it is unacceptable, considering many people could come here and, theoretically, could make life changing eating habits.

  9. #39
    Oh and here's a few more for you to look at. All from valid sources. So if you are truly interested in this topic feel free to read it.

    http://www.johnleemd.net/articles/soy-01.html

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-po...=6&db=m&Dopt=b

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-po...=6&db=m&Dopt=b

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-po...=6&db=m&Dopt=b

    Please feel free to read these as well...although I doubt any of you truly will, but just remember that if you post something and debate with me try to do some research as I will on my end. I enjoy being proven wrong when possible, but I hate wasting my time...

  10. #40

  11. #41
    These sites don't really say much. The first one is just a weight training site (ugly as hell format btw) that tells you to use soy and other stuff as your protein source. Nothing there that hasn't been said in this thread.

    The second and third articles are just some guy that weight trained and went to a vegan diet. He was weak and trained poorly and made a bunch of changes and showed results. He's nothing special...anyone can get to where he is on pretty much any diet. He's not that big...and to say its because he turned vegan doesn't make sense. It's just some guy talking about how he's a vegan and weightlifts, again, nothing that hasn't been said in this thread.

  12. #42
    If you go to the Robbie Hazeley section on the first link, there's some pictures of him. OK, it may not prove much, but it gives the lie to the old 'skinny vegans can never gain muscle' schtick. There are muscular vegans, and skinny ones, just like any sector of the population.

    Luke

  13. #43
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    Canada
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  14. #44
    Thanks Spark! I will try to make some time during work tomorrow, I haven't actually clicked on any links yet so I will reserve my opinion for when I've had enough time to go through it all. But I appreciate your effort in at least posting some links.

  15. #45
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    Dec 1969
    Location
    Seattle, WA, USA
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    79
    thanks to everyone for their passionate input. it's great!

    rather than add my 10 years of research to the thread (and besides, i don't have time), all i'm going to say is this....

    it's like MA practice...you have to PRACTICE and LIVE it to really know it. if you don't, you will never know for sure, and have little grounds to truly criticize it. read and research everything that interests you, weigh it against your own reason, decide why you want to do why you want to do, then just do it to see what happens. until you do it, it's all speculation. everyone is different.

    and if you find yourself being a little too proselytizing about your personal practice, ask yourself if it's not driven from some insecurity. because usually when people push stuff on you, or get highly defensive about their beliefs, it's because they're really covering up some insecurty in what THEY believe. if you KNOW, you KNOW...you don't need to try to convince someone else.

    if i have seen for myself that the sky is blue, no amount of people trying to convince me that it's really green is ever going to threaten me.

    however...that doesn't mean that THEIR sky is blue too. so it would be wrong for me to claim i have an "absolute" truth (and i apologize to EP personally for all the righteous vegetarians/vegans out there who rammed their little personal philsophies down his throat.)

    that doesn't mean that all of these theories can't be discussed from an intellectually critical point of view, which is what i think is MOSTLY happening here. it's good discourse. it's cool to see so many different points of view.

    one final comment: it's not all about the body.

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