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Thread: Choy Li Fut

  1. #61
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    Germpest, indeed CLF is not formed from 3 family styles, but from shaolin, Li Gar and Hung Gar/Nan Sil Lum. The techniques of the styles that Chan Heung learned are entirely synthesised into one distinct style, CLF. You'd be seriously pushed to pick one technique or principle and say "this came from..."
    "The man who stands for nothing is likely to fall for anything"
    www.swindonkungfu.co.uk

  2. #62
    Yes, contrary to the current opinion espoused by some CLF practitionersl, CLF is probably not a "mix" of Choy Ga and Li Ga and Fut Ga kung fu.

    How many people in China have the last name Choy? Or the the last name Li (Lee)? Just go to your U.S. phone book and you'll see what I'm talking about.

    Just because a style is name Choy Li Fut does not mean it is affiliated with the famous family styles of Choy Ga and Li Ga.

    This is a big area of confusion I think and until I see some undadulterated Choy Ga and Li Ga there is still doubt in my mind.

    But Choy Li Fut IS a compilation of techniques as they were passed on by the monks Choy Fook and Li Yau Shan. But what techniques came from WHO is anybodies guess. I don't think you could so cleanly say...this technique came from Choy Fook and this came from Li Yau Shan and so on.

    One thing that distinguishes CLF from other Southern styles is its incorporation of long fist techniques, probably from the Northern Styles. In this respect we differ from the other Southern arts like Wing Chun, SPM, Bak Mei, etc.

    In many respects we are the most like Hung Ga in terms of techniques and spirit. However, their footwork more closely resembles other southern styles while ours is less rooted, more mobile and more intricate like northern styles.

    We also have northern weapons that most Southern styles don't use, like the three section staff, hook swords, gim, etc. Most Southern styles only focus on the staff, spear, butterfly knives, broadsword etc.

    CLF tries to include a little bit of everything for the most variety and flexibility. So in a way it is hard to categorize the style.

    You would definitely know it if you saw it though.

  3. #63
    thanks guys

  4. #64
    Join Date
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    Hello Fu Pow

    Interesting coments. I never thought about it that way, but it makes sense. I don't practice Choy Li Fut and I wouldn't care to say excactly were it comes from. I let the CLF people debate that. LOL. But you make a great point. Many styles don't have actual names, by the way.

    Has any one actually seen the Choy gar or Li Gar styles?

    One thing I would like to add. I say this not as an expert on either system, just as a person who is looking at them with a little experience. I don't really see much of a connection or much similarity between Hung Gar and CLF. Yes there is some basic connections such as horse stance, fighting bow stance etc. Some punches are the same. But I think there is a totaly different view taken between both arts. Choy Li Fut seems to me to be based on supple swinging strikes. That seems to be the bread and butter of CLF. I think of the arms as maces whirling around. Hung Gar from my experience has these types of techniques, but they are not common. Rather you see more close in fighting where the power is not based on whiping arm speed, but rather body unity. You see a lot of reverse punching for example, which I am told is the bread and butter. Perhaps both started from similar roots and diverged in to specialties.

    I see much more in common between the northern systems that Hung Gar. I have seen a couple Pek Kar forms and I see a lot of similarities in the hands attacks. I haven't seen enough of either style to make a good solid connection, but from watching them a few times, I can make the similarities out. To me, CLF is a very practical northern style. Or a northern style done in the sourthen way. LOL.

    Tom
    ________
    Herb scales
    Last edited by tparkerkfo; 04-04-2011 at 05:47 PM.

  5. #65
    Choy Li Fut seems to me to be based on supple swinging strikes. That seems to be the bread and butter of CLF. I think of the arms as maces whirling around. Hung Gar from my experience has these types of techniques, but they are not common. Rather you see more close in fighting where the power is not based on whiping arm speed, but rather body unity.
    Good observation. My guess is that Hung Ga and CLF have similar roots but the techniques developed the way they did because of different influences.

    There are many hand techniques shared by both that are the "same." What I mean by the "same" is that they have the same hand formation, direction of movement, etc. However, the "intention", application and way that they are delivered are definitely different.
    CLF has more extension and waist turning. Hung Ga is more compact and unified.

    I don't think that we could quite say that CLF is a northern stlye. It incorporates many hand techniques that you only ever see in Southern Kung Fu. So CLF is kind of the ******* child of Southern Kung Fu. It's not really Northern or Southern and contains techniques from both.

    I like to think of it as a "best of" of Chinese Kung Fu in General. Some might argue with me on that point.

    However, when you look at all the weapons, dummies, internal, external, etc. forms that the Chan Family has you realize it really is a compendium of many different influences.

    I think the old CLF masters "cherry picked" the best techniques from many influences and brought then together into a very coherent style.

    You see this theme again and again in Chinese martial arts. Lineage is rarely direct but with many branches and trees and roots.

    Great convo. Thanks.

  6. #66
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    Um, Fu Pow, there is Li Gar in CLF Just no Choy Gar and no Fut Gar (unless you do Jeong hung sing)
    "The man who stands for nothing is likely to fall for anything"
    www.swindonkungfu.co.uk

  7. #67
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    Hi Fu-Pow

    I think I can agree with most of what you said. I think perhaps Hung Gar and Choy Li Fut have a similar core as the basics are very similar. Execution differs, but they are similar. I think perhaps they specialized.

    Choy Li Fut is very impressive from my pespective. I am lucky enough to live near san francisco which has several schools, though most are not from the Chan family. I do like what I see.

    I don't see much similarity with the typical northern styles I see. But some of them have the same flavor. Similar whipping in the hands. Like I said, Pek Kwa seems to have very similar hands. But your right in the southern flavor as well. CLF doesn't seem to due the higher kicks, though it keeps the mobility to some extent.

    Facinating art.
    Tom
    ________
    Home made vaporizer
    Last edited by tparkerkfo; 04-04-2011 at 05:47 PM.

  8. #68
    fu pow :


    what you said have a lot of sense . i've never put attention in that fact : choy lay don't mean choy gar and lay gar togheter .
    only choy fok and lay yau san together .
    i think like me a lot of people don't see this point clearly .
    this info come from you sifu ?

  9. #69
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    If you do research on the 5 major families of southern kung fu: hung, lau, choy, lay & mok. The founder of Lay Gar is listed as Lay Yau San, one of Chan Hueng's teachers. I have also seen another person with the same surname as the founder of Lay Gar so I really don't know for sure.

    The Choy is for Choy Fook with no correlation to Choy Gar kung fu.

    Peace.

  10. #70
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    Re: Choy Lay Fut...

    Originally posted by germpest
    wondering what they represent in the art itself. Like leverages, punches, kicks, throws,etc. What does Choy have in it, etc.
    All the characteristics of CLF can be seen in the two beginners forms, Ng Lun Ma and Ng Lun Chui and I have been told San Soo has something similar.

    We fight our oponents side on and turn our waist and body (Da Bok and Sei Bok) all the time whether slid back to retreat or charge forward to attack. We use fluid body movements, footworks follows handwork and vise versa, continuous and rolling all the time while hiding our center line from our opponents and attack them from unexpected angles (my favourite is Chair Sun Dat Chui or spinning back fist), high followed by low, left followed by right, punches followed by kicking, retreat followed by attack and straight line followed by curves swing, etc.

    We start our san soo combo with a minimun 3 moves building up to 10 or more non-stop and never let our opponents have a break once we start. Even at the basic level we have traps, leverage and throw (Chil Seo Dan Lan and Kow Tan for example).

    We have got everything (Chin-na, ground fighting, wooden dummies, the 18 weapons, qigong, TCM and lion dance etc. etc) except the fancy moves but the traditional stuff still look quite nice when done well and we can win forms competition and San Da without any drastic modifications. We look and feel more like northern plus Hung Ga rather than SPM and the Hakka styles.


    CLFNole,

    Lee Yau San is considered by some to be the founder of Lee Ga but there are also other lines as well like you said, there are still people practice Lee Ga in China. Parts of it look very CLF.

    I am glad people are starting to get the idea that the name CLF represented past masters and not family styles. Fut is not Fut Ga, it represented Chan Yuan Wu and the Shaolin Temple. Some people say Chan Yuan Wu is the founder of Fut Ga but there are also others with different lineage.

    Like Hung Ga (MA came from Hung Mun) Fut Ga started off as a generic term for MA came from the Buddhist Temples, later it grew into a style because of famous pratitioners making a name for themselves.

  11. #71
    thanks extrajoseph

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    san francisco
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    well now--all you can do is try...if you like it, then continue to train there. i know that Doc Fai Wong has an OUTSTANDING reputation in the kung fu community and has many talented students. as far as the money goes, the school should be able to work something out with you to both your benefits if you really want to train there. just keep in mind that "you get what you pay for..."
    Originally Posted by Lee Chiang Po
    You then walk backwards, forcing him off his feet and then drag him by the eye socket and lips. You can pull so hard that the lips tear away. You will never hear such screaming.

  13. #73
    Doc fai wong has a ranking system.
    See http://www.plumblossom.net/ChoyLiFut/ranking.htm

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Hannover
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    Choy Li Fut

    Hey,since here are many CLF Sifu and practicioners I thought I give you a link to where I upload many scanns about CLF...
    those came from from old magazines in hongkong from the 70s called Choy Li Fut..

    enjoy...

    http://www.hungkyun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=877

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Richmond, BC, Canada
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    Thanks for the link dude.
    "I think, therefore I am." - Descartes

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