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Thread: Tibetan Kung Fu Styles

  1. #16
    warrenoh Guest
    Sorry, I never heard Dalai Lama practiced any MA.

    one of the name for Tibetan MA is Lama, and it's because of chinese monks, ppl calling it
    LamaWuShu, cause it was a MA introduced by SiZang Monks.

    As you hopefully know, Chinese buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism is different.
    Han-Chinese buddhism is called Chan, while Tibetan buddhism is called Lama.

    Do u like traditional chinese KF novels by any chance?

    There r some BS in it, but read it for fun.
    MatJongMuSeut(MiJongWuShu)[Tibetan MA] is always considered as the most mysterious and most deadly MA among Shaolin, Emei, WuDang...ETC. (But ShaoLin is the one who usually achieves a victory in the end, cuz they were written by Han-Chinese ppl.^^)

    I advise u to think about this B4 u think about MA.

    [This message has been edited by warrenoh (edited 04-26-2000).]

  2. #17
    Hi Warrenoh

    No, I've never trained in Bak Hok. But it is kind of a common knowledge to know all these if you practise in HK. Luk Chi Fu esp, he is well known of his kung fu, Tit Da skills and lion dancing in CausewayBay.
    Apart from him, Cheung Kwok Wah in Chun Wan is always another famous Sifu in your style.
    The Bak Hok Gung with full details was published in the Bak Hok Martial Art Association Annual Magazine last yr or the year before. I shall get a copy of it thro my friends.
    Thanks for the details in history.



  3. #18
    warrenoh Guest
    Dear Wilson

    Thnx for ur interest in BakHok and i appericiate u for identifying what style u r in.

    But, this forum is for Tibetan MA ppl, and I would appreciate it, if u erase ur homepage URL.


  4. #19
    WildMan_Riot Guest
    i was hopeing that you would be able to discuss the methods behind pak hok to back up your claim (that it is powerful) rather than resorting to ancient myths and folk lore about masters of days gone by.

    So, is pak hok powerful or is what you say simply reflects that fact that you love yourselves too much?

    I get the impression that you're very into pak hok to the extent that an URL link to a southern mantis web page is enough to ruffle your feathers.

  5. #20
    warrenoh Guest
    Dear wildmanriot

    Yes, i m very into Tibetan MA, and I DO believe and know that this is highly-effective MA. Just for ur reference, i work in a security business, i do the personal bodyguarding for multi-millinaire ppl from asia, and work as a doorman in the nite club, and Casino. My belief comes from my experience and my respect to my SiFus.

    i read the other columns u wrote, and I can't stop thinking that u just want to fool around.
    Plz do NOT disturb my forum. if u still wanna do it, take it somewhere else.
    This is a friendly FORUM for those who r into Tibetan MA.

    Like i said, the stories above r not ancient myths. I dun wanna argue about this, it's just a waste of time.
    Again, like i said, there's no need to talk,
    only the fist talks, especially for a guy like u. if u really wanna know about the fighting principle behind the Tibetan MA, u can check out the URL above.

    when u learn MA, u not only learn the skills from the masters, but also traditional manners. The masters i m with is VERY traditional, and so m i, when it comes to MA.
    Example) if someone does wingchun form in Lama school, ppl there find it very offensive. Same thing, if lama guy go to hunggar school, and advertise the lama school.....
    this kinda thing is considered as a challenge, and disrespect to the school.
    manners..... it's all from the respect to the own system, or the other system.
    MA ppl should have manners, and know how to respect others.

    But, i admit i took it a bit serious about the URL thing, i kinda forgot that this was cyberspace.

    Peace~ ^^


    [This message has been edited by warrenoh (edited 04-28-2000).]

  6. #21

    The URL thing was never meant to be disrespect to the Bak Hok Pai. As from my previous knowledge and masters that I met in Bak Hok Pai in HK, it shows my respect to your style, and I mean no offense.
    I myself is a traditional chinese that brought up in HK too. I totally agree with the martial manner and respect " Mo Duk" theory which has not been widely practise in modern days western world. It is ofcourse important to learn that, as I always stress.
    The URL thing is just a kind of signature thing that I put below my name, so it isn't a advert as you said, I hope you don't mind.



  7. #22
    Lost_Disciple Guest
    Wanted to post up here before, but didn't know my lineage or even all of the names of the forms in the cirriculum. I just found my old training manual with all the info, so here goes:
    My old sifu in high school studied for a couple years under a Master Chuek T Tse in Hawaii. Master Chuek studied under Ng Bing Jong. I'm not 100% sure on which forms were from which lineage- my sifu studied for 6 years in Green Dragon (5 animal shaolin), 2 years under master Chuek, some time under Sifu Vernon Rieta, and 10 years under a taichi, hsing yi teacher in Okinawa. Most of the Green Dragon forms are in mandarin, because the lineage went through Taiwan.(Shaolin->Kao Fang Hsien->Hung Wen Hsueh->SL Martin-> Ken Thomas -> my old sifu).
    I'm assuming the forms with the Cantonese names are the Tibetian ones. However, this becomes difficult, taking into account that my old sifu doesn't speak chinese and may have gone with either the mandarin or cantonese pronunciation for words, depending on whether or not he knew another form with a similar name.
    The forms I'm pretty sure are Tibetian include:
    -Kao Da (Twisting strikes- lots of Fan Choi, looks cool)
    -Ji Wy (Chicken form- heard it's actually Choi li fut, really nice form)
    -Chuek Kune (Chuek family fist, aka 1000 backfists, heard the nickname is fitting)
    -Siu Mui Fa (Little plum Flower)
    -Mui Fa Cheong (Plum Flower posts)
    -Lohan Sao (Buddha Palm, one of my fav' sets, eventhough I only learned the first 7 moves)
    -Tet Tsin (Iron Wire, definitely different than the Hung Gar one- there's 1 whooping noise in the middle when you do a 1 legged squat, 1 arm straight up w/2 fingers extended)

    The mandarin ones from Green Dragon include:
    -Liu Quan (6 fists, aka 6 power- the basic 6 crane punches)
    -Yee Bo Hao (Single stepping crane- one of my favorite forms to date)
    -Shee Hao (Snake and Crane, the note says "Ta Hao Chung Kuo Chen")
    -Tiow Ba Fung Dao (Circular and turning blade of 8 winds)
    -Yin Hao Dao (Silver crane knives- basically single stepping crane with butterfly knives)

    Can anybody help me sort through this mess?
    Do any of these forms resemble any Tibetian forms?
    -I could probably contact my old sifu, to find out exactly which forms he learned from Master Chuek, if need be.

    I'd really appreciate it if anybody could offer any help, thanks!

  8. #23
    warrenoh Guest
    Lost Disciple.

    The cantonese forms u know is NOT a tibetan system. but, in my opinion, i think those forms are mixtures of southern forms(mostly ChoyLeiFaht or jow ga).

    The mandarin forms r NOT a tibetan system either, it sounds like Fujian WhiteCrane, which is popular in taiwan.

    I could be wrong about this, please check with ur sifu.

    [This message has been edited by warrenoh (edited 04-28-2000).]

  9. #24
    WildMan_Riot Guest

    You said "only fist talk" I personally believe that typing with fingers is much more effective than punching up a keyboard.

    I did have a look at your URL. Hop Gar does sound impressive for what it claims to deliver. Could you describe your training progam for example what do you do in a typical Hop Gar class?

  10. #25
    warrenoh Guest
    Dear WildManRiot

    'Fist talks' also means, if u have time to
    BS, go practice punching even one more time.
    that will help ur KF, not ur mouth or fingers typing the keyboard.

    What do we do in the typical class?
    Let me ask you, what do u do in the typical class?

    This is my answer for u, think until u figure this out.

    1.There's no such thing as a secret. 2.practice makes one perfect. has to sacrifice something for something else. with honest mind will get the true essence.
    5.every KF starts from basic training, without solid foundation, it's like the tree with no root.

    keep these 5 in your mind, and do it, then one will be really strong.

    Again, Everything starts from the basics. and that what we mostly do in the class.

    [This message has been edited by warrenoh (edited 04-29-2000).]

  11. #26
    WildMan_Riot Guest

    Yes I talk too much, just a keyboard warior.

    What are some of the basics that you do in training?

    The reason why I'm asking is because, your strain of Pak Hok is very rare and I'm sure there will be heaps of people out there who also would be very curious to find out more.

    Look forward to your reply.

  12. #27
    warrenoh Guest
    Dear wildmanriot

    Fundamental movement of Tibetan MA is waist twist. Tibetan MA is the most aggressive MA i've ever experienced. we say good offense is the best defense. we don't practice blocks that much, compared to other styles.
    actually, we seldom or never block.
    let's say if someone punches, then we just turn waist, which means we evade and punch at the same time, with steps if necessary.

    i'll explain you about 4 fundamental principle.
    1.Chan - we try not to fight, however, if we do, we fight with full power, until the fight is over.
    2.Sim - evade and hit at the same time.
    3.Cheung - offend continuously for most devastating results
    4.Jit - train enough to stay a step ahead of your opponent.

    there's an old saying.

    However, without solid basic training, the fighting principle is just what comes out of mouth.

    First of all, one's gotta have power, the power doesn't necessarily mean size of the person, it includes physical power, as well as mental power. Training forms without this, is nothing but dancing.

    The foundation must be SOLID, QUALITY is better than quantity.

    the common basics we practice are

    waist twist, Stance training(Internal Training), punches, kicks, claws, light body exercise........

    It's hard to explain basic exercises by typing.
    i advise u to visit the club in ur town.

    NiDa, AnBuDan, AnDaNi, DangBuZu
    if u hit, i dun block, i hit u, can't stop me

  13. #28
    WildMan_Riot Guest

    Do you do much sparring or contact work to develop your timing? I'm sure you're paccking alot of power in your punches with the full waist twist, however, if your timing is a little off or the opponent's attack is coming at a slightly different angle to what you anticipate, waist twist may not be enough to evade the attack. Is this a fair comment?

  14. #29
    Lost_Disciple Guest
    I think your assessment sounds fair. I just thought with a name (as my teacher remembered it and wrote in the manual) like "ng bing jong"- that they may be related somehow to the other "ng" of the Tibetian system. I know "ng" is a famous cantonese last name though, so I don't expect too much.

    As far as the other crane being Fukien I somewhat agree. I've stated in other posts on other boards that there were 3 styles of crane taught at that school. The first two I listed in my other reply. The last one came from the hsing yi, tai chi teacher. His wife's last name is Hokama. He took it as his own last name. Hokama is a very famous Goju Ryu family. Goju Ryu is based on Fujian crane, I think specifically from the Fuzhou locality (I've got documentation on it). The hsing yi, tai chi teacher learned in Taiwan (which was originally populated by people from Fujian- what a lot of people call "Taiwanese" is actually Fukienese). He taught a form called "Fukien shee hau" or "Fukien snake and crane". Interestingly enough, this form, mechanically is the same as the highest level Goju Ryu Form. The difference is, the way he teaches it, has a lot of fluidity. It's not stiff at all. It's done in a traditional kung fu manner, and eventhough it contains the same movements as the Goju Ryu form, it ends up looking totally different.

    My point for that long description, is that the forms that were Green Dragon (the ones with the mandarin names), were not only passed from the Fukien temple (southern shaolin), they were done with many of the same techniques as this Fukien Shee Hau form. I think you may be right; that the Green Dragon crane forms are probably from the Fukien crane system.

    I would really like to see real Tibetian White Crane someday.

  15. #30
    warrenoh Guest
    Dear wildmanriot,

    No, we dun do as much sparring as MuayThai, TaeKwondo.......,
    However, there's an EYE training, and 2-man excercises, a lot of contact training, not on the beginning level.
    two KF brothers of mine r NorthAmerica Kickboxing champions in 1970's, one of their students r champion too.
    These guys always say the power to be a champion were from the basic training we do, including CONTACT training.

    wildmanriot, i m now pretty sure that u r
    pretty novice in MA without a good sifu, or u r just young.
    Why dun u check out MA school in ur town?
    I hope u find the style u want.

    [This message has been edited by warrenoh (edited 05-01-2000).]

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